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  1. #1
    Atomic Punk
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    05.31.14 @ 08:17 PM
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    Default Sixty Years Ago Today 8-6-1945

    We erased the city of Hiroshima with one atomic bomb.

    In the previous four weeks, we had erased a number of other Japanese cities with huge B-29 incindiary raids.



    http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/ops/hiroshima.htm
    Last edited by Axxman300; 08.06.05 at 08:23 PM.
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  2. #2
    Little Dreamer
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    I watched a few of the specials over the weekend on this and it really got me to thinking, did we really have to do this? Now don't get me wrong here, I am a right win nut job who supports all military efforts and believed that all causes are just. However, the aftermath of this just makes you wonder did Truman really know the effect this bomb was going to have when dropped? Two bombs and well over 200,000 gone, wow that is a number that I can't fathom. I understand that fact that they wanted to bring the war to a quicker conclusion by enacting this, but there are facts that the war was winding down anyways and Japan was on the way to ultimatly surrendering anyhow. It was said that Truman vetoed a test bomb in Japan in the non populated area to give them the message of what we have, I wonder if he should have thought again on that. I don't necessarily buy the arguement that enacting this saved many more lives, Allied or Axis. However, there is no doubt in my mind that it either Hitler or Japan had this weapon first, they would have used it on the US, so I guess in the long run it was better that we had it first. Just gets you thinking.

  3. #3
    Good Enough Vince G.'s Avatar
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    Watching a documentary on this gives you some sort of feeling as to what happened when the bomb was dropped.

    Actually being in both Hiroshima and Nagasaki, touring their museums, and looking at some of the buildings they decided to leave standing as a reminder to what the bombs did is something else.

    I've been to both, and Hiroshima really leaves a mark on you. There has been nothing else I've seen or experienced that has had as much impact on me as what I saw in Hiroshima.

    Just hope and pray that a nuclear war never rears its ugly head until after we're all dead and long gone.
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  4. #4
    Atomic Punk ziggysmalls's Avatar
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    12.18.17 @ 10:12 AM
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    I love revisionist history.

    We are bitching and moaning about how the death toll in Iraq keeps on growing day by day, week by week. Coming close to 2000. That many peole would have died in one minute invading Japan.

    More people died in the fire bombings of Tokyo using conventional weapons and nobody complained.

    If we would have used a D-Day type landing, we probably would have lost over 100,000 men.

    We were fighting a war for 4 years. People wanted to end it ASAP with little casualties.

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  6. #5
    Damage your reputation seenbad's Avatar
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    12.15.17 @ 10:48 AM
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    Quote Originally Posted by ziggysmalls
    I love revisionist history.

    We are bitching and moaning about how the death toll in Iraq keeps on growing day by day, week by week. Coming close to 2000. That many peole would have died in one minute invading Japan.

    More people died in the fire bombings of Tokyo using conventional weapons and nobody complained.

    If we would have used a D-Day type landing, we probably would have lost over 100,000 men.

    We were fighting a war for 4 years. People wanted to end it ASAP with little casualties.
    But, but, but, it made a really scary boom noise and a big big cloud!
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  7. #6
    Little Dreamer
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    "We were fighting a war for 4 years. People wanted to end it ASAP with little casualties" 200,000+ incinerated does not sound like little casulaties to me.

  8. #7
    Atomic Punk MikeL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 515051505150
    "We were fighting a war for 4 years. People wanted to end it ASAP with little casualties" 200,000+ incinerated does not sound like little casulaties to me.
    It would if you understood the nature of the conflict and the estimates for the other two options for ending the war. The first was to invade Japan, where up to one million casualties were expected. The second was to continue the blockade and strategic bombing campaign until the Japanese literally couldn't fight anymore, which would have cost them dearly.

    You can't put historical events into a modern context and expect to understand them. You have to view them in the context in which they occurred, and that means actually knowing something about the times. Americans are lazy when it comes to history.

  9. #8
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    12.12.17 @ 01:24 PM
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    In either case, War sucks...Killing sucks....Atomic bombs suck.
    Hopefully one day, world leaders will open up a bible, and read the line
    "Thou Shall Not Kill"....Pretty good words to live by.

    I have a close friend that lives in Japan, and all throughout college, everytime I hung out with her, I felt so freakin' guilty about that, even though it went down way before I was born.

    What we dropped on Japan pales in comparison to what is around now. Someday, somebody is going to fire a nuke at somebody else....

    I read somewhere that there was one time in the 80's that either the Soviets, or Americans came as close to pushing the button as you could...I gotta find that story again....

  10. #9
    Atomic Punk WinterlessIceness's Avatar
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    A-bomb hardly suck. That's because of it there were no major war conflicts for those 60 years. It was close to happening but the fact is it didn't.

  11. #10
    The Joker BradS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ziggysmalls
    I love revisionist history.

    We are bitching and moaning about how the death toll in Iraq keeps on growing day by day, week by week. Coming close to 2000. That many peole would have died in one minute invading Japan.

    More people died in the fire bombings of Tokyo using conventional weapons and nobody complained.

    If we would have used a D-Day type landing, we probably would have lost over 100,000 men.

    We were fighting a war for 4 years. People wanted to end it ASAP with little casualties.

    You’re speaking of different circumstances. WWII was a war where the troops were truly fighting for our freedoms, as well as the freedom of others. The current “war on terrorism” has nothing to do with securing our freedom…we will have it no matter what the outcome is.

    Mike is right…you have to discuss it in the context of the times and the situation.

  12. #11
    Atomic Punk ZeoBandit's Avatar
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    12.14.17 @ 05:57 AM
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    The specials ran on History channel over the weekend said that it is well known now that Japan probably would have surrendered within a week before the bombs were even dropped. There would not be a need to invade either way.

    I believe that the bombs were not meant for the Japanese as much as they were for Russia. It was a statement to Stalin telling them to not fuck with us after the war ended.
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  13. #12
    Atomic Punk MikeL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeoHalen
    The specials ran on History channel over the weekend said that it is well known now that Japan probably would have surrendered within a week before the bombs were even dropped. There would not be a need to invade either way.
    Hindsight isn't available until well after an event has taken place.

  14. #13
    Atomic Punk Van Squalen's Avatar
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    Nuclear weapons are a travesty. The fact that we have so many of them pointed at what amounts to 25% of the surface of the earth (the rest being covered in water) only shows how puerile a species we really are to date, in our ongoing so-called development. Just fucking pathetically moronic. Mutual assured destruction is a gambit, in the end, that will not stand the test of time, especially in an age of cell-based terrorism and suitcase bombs. It's always agonizingly ironic to see people cite the saving of lives via nuclear intervention. Frickin' humans will justify any damned thing.

    Plenty of accredited historians and military theorists, in addition to several original contributors to the initial A-bomb projects, including Oppenheimer, have maintained time and again Japan was already a defeated enemy when the bomb was dropped. They were already considering surrender, largely in part due to the Soviet Union's entry into the Pacific arena. It's more than likely Truman dropped Fat Man and Little Boy as a deterrent move, showing the 'Reds' we had the moxy and wherewithal.

  15. #14
    Good Enough EJC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeoHalen
    I believe that the bombs were not meant for the Japanese as much as they were for Russia. It was a statement to Stalin telling them to not fuck with us after the war ended.
    I guess that really sucks for the 200k Japaneese that were wiped out, huh?

    Sorry dude, I can't really see the logic in this one. I can't see the American government dropping 2 atomic bombs on Japan, killing hundreds of thousands of innocent people (This was not a precision military strike) in order to "make a statement" to the Russians, who btw were our allies to a certain degree and pretty much ended Hitler's eastward march on the steps of Moscow (thanks in part to one cold-ass winter that the Nazi's were ill-prepared to fight in.) I'm not a historian, and don't claim to be...But if that is the case, it was a pretty fucked up thing to do, seeing as at contributed to the build up of massive amounts of nuclear weapons by both sides (and a few close calls) for the next 40+ years...

    Whatever.... It is "history" so it can't be changed anyway.....
    Last edited by EJC; 08.08.05 at 10:44 AM.

  16. #15
    Atomic Punk MikeL's Avatar
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    Those historians are revisionists. They ignore the culture, and they put more faith in the Japanese who claim to have been ready to surrender than the Japanese who were hell-bent on fighting to the last man. They ignore the lessons of Okinowa. They ignore the fact that a large part of China was still in Japanese hands. They ignore the civil defense programs that were busy turning women and children into munitions. They have an agenda, and they work towards that rather than working to chronicle what happened and why.

    Nuclear weapons were inevitable. They saved us from the hell of never-ending industrial warfare by the scope and magnitude of their power. Those that shed tears over Hiroshima and Nagasaki likely know nothing of Dresden, Hamburg, Tokyo, and dozens of other cities that were destroyed by conventional means. 1,000 heavy bombers raining death on a city doesn't awe us, yet one doing it does. The results are the same, however. Thank god that it sobered us up. Nuclear weapons brought restraint to political brinksmanship. Imagine Berlin and Korea without them. They brought about the concept of limited war, which was a dramatic change from the scope of industrialized warfare prior to their existence.

    They aren't the demon that certain people make them out to be.

 

 

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