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  1. #1
    The Joker BradS's Avatar
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    Howard Dean and the bickering media cicus...

    Howard Dean is under fire. Justified? What do you think? The one quote that is seemingly infuriating to some people is something along the lines of “The republican party has become nothing more than white Christians.”

    I consider myself independent, and I often wonder why politicians don’t think before they speak. There are many “white Christian” democrats. He is going to alienate himself from his own party if he continues to make comments like this.

    Then there is the other side. Should he not be allowed to make a statement that he feels to be true if it is to show why he thinks his party needs to step up to the plate? Did it need to be said, or is he grandstanding for attention?

    Should he apologize or stand by what he said?

    I am interested in what everyone thinks. Personally, I think our country has many more important things to be troubled about…and should put those issues under intense focus, rather than making comments that incite childish bickering.

    Discuss.

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    dean wasn't saying that there are not white christians in the democratic party. he was just saying that republicans are so anti-inclusive that they have become a party of only white christians. And if you look at the republicans in power it is hard to argue with that. Is there a black republican in congress? is there a non christian republican in congress. As far as i know there is not. So dean actually has a very good point despite the media spin on his comments.

  3. #3
    Atomic Punk WinterlessIceness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ian
    Is there a black republican in congress?
    Well there is Secretary of State, it's more than just a congressman.

  4. #4
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    SOS is an appointed position. very different. You don't see Republican leaders nominate minorities much for elections. The last example i can think is Keyes for Illinois Senate, which they knew was going to be won by Obama anyway. I also find it highly amusing that Republicans did not seem to mind the fact that Keyes didn't live in Illinois even though they attacked Hilary Clinton for not living in New York when she ran....hypocrites

  5. #5
    On Fire Genghis_John's Avatar
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    08.22.16 @ 01:22 PM
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    I consider myself to be a Democrat. That said, I think Gov. Dean is an idiot.

    Gov. Dean seems like an attack dog. He barks and carries on all the time in such a way that instead of reaching out to potential supporters, he has become the cheerleader for the radical left and turns off many people. The sooner the Democratic party reaches out towards middle America (and yes, white Christians), the sooner sanity will be restored to political leadership in government. Is the role of the DNC to be an attack dog? All they do is bitch about Republicans. Where are the Democrats with new ideas that actually reach out to middle America? Sure, we can point out lots of problems with Bush, etc., but what the hell are WE going to do about it? Any new ideas? I am starting to develop a tin ear towards the Democratic leadership with all the whinning going on. Eventually you just want to slap Dean and say "Stop your bitchin".

    The next great Democratic leader will be someone who can reach out to moderate America, provide a unique vision for America, and demonstrate that Republicans don't corner the market on "family values". Who is this person? Hell if I know...

    Sorry, not a lot substance here. Just demonstrating that us Democrats like to bitch a blue streak. If I get around to it, I might throw out a few ideas to kick around. Any Democrats on here want to take a shot?
    "Everything comes to me while I'm sitting on the pot." - EVH

  6. #6
    The Joker BradS's Avatar
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    I think your right about moderation. Democrats and Republicans need to be more open to approaching the "middle". I say Dem's and Rep's because they are the majority...I agree with both on different issues. They probably won't admit it, but I think most Dem's and Rep's are too far left or right for a lot of people's tastes.

    Maybe that will bring more to the Independant side.

  7. #7
    Atomic Punk
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    05.31.14 @ 08:17 PM
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    I'm a Democrat, have been so since 1982 leagally, I swang that way around 1976 after I was old enough to understand Watergate.

    Vietnam and the Baby-Boomers have fucked up my party as badley as the ultra-rightwing Christains have fucked up the GOP. Howard Dean would be at home on college campus in 1969, but he's so far out of step with the country in 2005. He is the Ralph Nader of the 2006 and , God forbid, 2008 elections.
    Every dumbass statement he makes will come back to bite us (the Democratic Party) in our ass.
    It's 2005, the press had demonstrated that it's not up to the task anymore as far as politics goes. Dean's statements were made in long speeches that nobody will hear because only the stupid remarks make the news. Deans a motherfucking doctor, he's supposed to be smart, yet he's set the party back even farther than Kerry did last year. I didn't think that was possible.

    Look, like him or not, Bill Clinton moved the Democratic party forward. We had aparty that was doing something progressive. It was casting away failed programs and working with the Republicans to move the country forward. Clinton embraced good ideas and it didn't matter if they came from the GOP or not. In fact if the GOP wouldn't work with him, he's steal their ideas and run with them because he knew that they'd end up voting for the plan in the end. That, boys and girls, is leadership. Even the dreaded Senator Clinton from New York (D) is known for being a team player in the Senate, working hand in hand the vile Republicans on a variety of issues (gasp!!).

    Were I a paraniod type, I would swear that Dean is a GOP plant, a charictor created by Carl Rove to fool the "base" of the Democratic Party and scare independants and frighten the GOP "base". The guy is a cartoon of what Republicans think Democrats are really like and he'll scare them to the poles at each election. Technically, Democrats are also a majority of white Christains too (68%), Dean just smacked them in the face.

    What a fucking dipshit.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by ian
    dean wasn't saying that there are not white christians in the democratic party. he was just saying that republicans are so anti-inclusive that they have become a party of only white christians. And if you look at the republicans in power it is hard to argue with that. Is there a black republican in congress? is there a non christian republican in congress. As far as i know there is not. So dean actually has a very good point despite the media spin on his comments.
    How many black republicans are there on the White House staff. Bush has put more people of color and women in places of real power than any President in history. There is a story in the December 27th/Jan rd Time magazine by Joe Klein about it. Including the first two African-Americans and Hispanic Sec. of State and Attorney General.
    Last edited by clarker; 06.12.05 at 04:30 PM.

  9. #9
    On Fire Genghis_John's Avatar
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    08.22.16 @ 01:22 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axxman300
    Were I a paraniod type, I would swear that Dean is a GOP plant, a charictor created by Carl Rove to fool the "base" of the Democratic Party and scare independants and frighten the GOP "base". The guy is a cartoon of what Republicans think Democrats are really like and he'll scare them to the poles at each election. Technically, Democrats are also a majority of white Christains too (68%), Dean just smacked them in the face.

    What a fucking dipshit.
    You sir are correct!

    For God's sake, isn't there at least one Democratic candidate who can step forward and give independant Americans and moderate Republicans a reason to vote for the Democratic party? Like Axx said, Dean puts a face on the party that mostly gives people a reason to NOT vote Democrat. : Sadly, Hillary Clinton, I believe, is damaged goods politically. People will turn out in droves to vote against her.

    If no one steps forward, look for more moderate Democrates like me to jump ship and sail with a John McCain or Ruddi Giuliani type.
    "Everything comes to me while I'm sitting on the pot." - EVH

  10. #10
    Atomic Punk
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    05.31.14 @ 08:17 PM
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    Yep. Me too.

    Although I'm a Democrat, in the end I have to vote for the best candidate for President or whatever office for that matter.

    Dean's going to drag the party back to the looney-bin days of the 1980s, how are we going to field a winning candidate from a freakshow environment?

    Answer: We won't.

    This whole mess stems from the 2002 election when the GOP won the majority in the house and Senate. The Democratic leadership decided that the reason they lost ground was because they WEREN'T LIBERAL ENOUGH!! WTF? . Sensible party members ,who pointed out that we'd fucked ourselves with re-districting and we fielded candidates who tried to downplay 9/11 so the defeat should have been expected, were pushed to the rear of the bus.
    Dean keeps saying that the party has to re-define itself apart from the GOP, so that the voters have a clear choice at election time. The problem is that he and others in the Democratic leadership are digging out shit from the late 60's and going down a road that we already know is a dead end. It is the first time in American Political history that a party has discarded a successful strategy and philosophy (the Clinton era), one that one the White House twice, for a limp, sagging and pathetic course of post-Vietnam liberalism.

    This is stupidity beyond the pale.
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  11. #11
    Good Enough Rocket's Avatar
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    12.13.17 @ 08:48 AM
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    Lose all party affiliations and just vote for the smartest and most capable leader / mediator.

    Until we lose the party lines, we'll never have a fair society.

  12. #12
    Good Enough ZORBA5150's Avatar
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    12.14.17 @ 05:46 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by clarker
    How many black republicans are there on the White House staff. Bush has put more people of color and women in places of real power than any President in history. There is a story in the December 27th/Jan rd Time magazine by Joe Klein about it. Including the first two African-Americans and Hispanic Sec. of State and Attorney General.
    Democrats and liberals don't want to face reality with what our current President has done. They even go as far as calling Powell and Rice Uncel Tom's/slaves to Bush- such bullshit. The secretary of education was African-American as well.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by clarker
    How many black republicans are there on the White House staff. Bush has put more people of color and women in places of real power than any President in history. There is a story in the December 27th/Jan rd Time magazine by Joe Klein about it. Including the first two African-Americans and Hispanic Sec. of State and Attorney General.
    But once again those are appointed positions. I want to see the Republicans put a minority who they believe in up for an ELECTED position.

  14. #14
    Atomic Punk ziggysmalls's Avatar
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    12.14.17 @ 01:55 PM
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    Well needless to say the most powerful woman and minority in the world is Ms. Rice.

    I am a moderate Republican and I could not understand Dean to head the DNC. Bush would have been beaten by anybody outside of Kerry and Dean so when Kerry lost, the dems said "lets put the second sorriest guy in charge now"

    In 1994 after when Clinton's liberal policies cost him the House and Senate, he moved to the center and started to take some conservative issues and made him his own. That is what the Dems should have done with 2004. However they went the other way. Until they decide to come to the center, they will lose everything. Its a shame because as they go to the left, the Republicans will go to the right. We need some middle ground.

    Oh yeah another fine choice is Nancy Pelosi. She is about as whacky as Dean

  15. #15
    Atomic Punk lovemachine97(Version 2)'s Avatar
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    Who gives a shit if Christians typically blanket vote for Republicans? I don't see anyone complaining when minorities blanket vote for Democrats. When is Dean going to comment on that? Is it only fair when a group blanket votes for your party? Like it or not Democrats, I bet you right now, the first black man to be President, or VP, will be a Republican--and I'm neither a Republican, nor a Democrat.

    Both parties have been hijacked by their respective extremists, and both need to get their parties back.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocket
    Lose all party affiliations and just vote for the smartest and most capable leader / mediator.

    Until we lose the party lines, we'll never have a fair society.

    What are you going to do, have 300 people on the ballot like the last election in CA that put Arnold in office? Vote for Senator McCain, who is right below Carrot Top on the ballot? There are just too many problems to completely eliminate the party system. And most Independants are really just moderates. While many would consider me a moderate, a moniker I wouldn't necessarily shy away from, there is a convincing argument to be made that if the government was filled with moderates, NOTHING would ever get done.

    I am 26, and I would consider myself to be fiscally conservative, while socially liberal, which puts me just to the right of center. Many of my peers share the same ideology. But the typical youth, who are ultra-liberal, are the ones who sit at home on election day, because at the end of the day, they have no fucking clue what is going on. I'm so sick of kids with t-shirts that bash Bush, and have never seen the inside of a voting booth. And do even half of them know why they are bashing him? I'll respect you whether you like or dislike Bush, as long as you can put together a coherent argument as to why. Not just spend $19.99 on a t-shirt to do it for you, because Green Day makes it cool.

    But why get mad when the Republicans can get more of their core constituant to show up on election day, than Democrats can?

 

 

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