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  1. #1
    Eruption
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    12.12.17 @ 06:45 PM
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    Default Ray Daniels, really?

    Having followed the VH saga closely, I share most people's view that Ray Daniels was a huge factor in toppling VH.

    However, after watching Rush in Rio last night, it got me wondering about Ray. If he's such an evil guy, how has Rush, a band with three seemingly normal guys (and especially nice guys in Geddy and Neil), have such a long, productive relationship with him? Rush seems to have carved out a great niche, they treat their fans well, put out lots of product, etc.

    I'm just curious why that would seem to work so well and VH would blow up so badly. Was it really Ray, or anyone who followed Ed?

    acs

  2. #2
    Atomic Punk sixstring's Avatar
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    07.20.17 @ 02:42 PM
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    The difference with Rush is they have been Ray's baby for DECADES. I think they have had a better relationship with him from the get go. With VH, I think it was merely a MAJOR clash of ideals and egos...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]


    "20 minutes (late to work)? Shit. Last year I woke up three weeks too late.
    My advice is to go for the alien abduction story. Look bemused, dishevelled and on the verge of tears as you recount your story of intrusive and degrading medical tests.
    Worked for me anyway. I still have colleagues asking me what it is like to fuck a green womanoid with seventeen breasts.
    Alternatively just walk in and inform everyone that alcoholism is indeed a disease and that they should be less judgemental and perhaps a little more supportive."
    - graeme on the addiction to this place.

    "something tells me that after the nuclear holocaust, there'll be twinkies, cockroaches, and a dave vs. sammy argument going on somewhere".
    - han valen, 6.11.04

    "in my best "saw" scary movie voice: "oh, yes, there will be beagles."
    - hatchetforce, 6.7.06

  3. #3
    Eruption
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sixstring
    The difference with Rush is they have been Ray's baby for DECADES. I think they have had a better relationship with him from the get go. With VH, I think it was merely a MAJOR clash of ideals and egos...
    WHich ideals? That Ray wanted to have the WWW site updated? Just kidding!

    acs

  4. #4
    5150 P1's Avatar
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    03.29.06 @ 01:41 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by acs
    If he's such an evil guy, how has Rush, a band with three seemingly normal guys (and especially nice guys in Geddy and Neil), have such a long, productive relationship with him?
    I think you answered your own question right there (at least partially). Other than Mike, NO ONE in VH is normal, especially Eddie.. Also, Ray was Alex's brother-in-law. Getting family involved in business is rarely a good idea. And on top of that, it sounds like VH was a cash grab for Ray. Just a bad mix all around, IMO.
    "You guys never forced your babysitter to put her dirty feet all over your back-bottom while you handled up onto a tattered quilt?" - Fake Greggo
    "I like to put peaches in my panties and dance around until my knees bleed, Chuck." - Fake Billy Tubbs

  5. #5
    Atomic Punk sixstring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by acs
    WHich ideals? That Ray wanted to have the WWW site updated? Just kidding!

    acs
    I think Ray was really pushing the guys to become kind of a nostagia act, which obviously didn't sit very well with The Bros. I'm just guessing because of all the issuses that arose as a result of BOV1.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]


    "20 minutes (late to work)? Shit. Last year I woke up three weeks too late.
    My advice is to go for the alien abduction story. Look bemused, dishevelled and on the verge of tears as you recount your story of intrusive and degrading medical tests.
    Worked for me anyway. I still have colleagues asking me what it is like to fuck a green womanoid with seventeen breasts.
    Alternatively just walk in and inform everyone that alcoholism is indeed a disease and that they should be less judgemental and perhaps a little more supportive."
    - graeme on the addiction to this place.

    "something tells me that after the nuclear holocaust, there'll be twinkies, cockroaches, and a dave vs. sammy argument going on somewhere".
    - han valen, 6.11.04

    "in my best "saw" scary movie voice: "oh, yes, there will be beagles."
    - hatchetforce, 6.7.06

  6. #6
    Eruption
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    Quote Originally Posted by sixstring
    I think Ray was really pushing the guys to become kind of a nostagia act, which obviously didn't sit very well with The Bros. I'm just guessing because of all the issuses that arose as a result of BOV1.
    I thought it was only only Sammy that didn't want the BO stuff? Not to knock the bros., but aren't they pretty darn happy to do stuff for money?

  7. #7
    Sinner's Swing! vh_chick's Avatar
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    Have you read the excerpts from Sammy's tell-all book that was never published? Ray was pitting the brothers against Sammy right away. He told them lies and Ed and Al bought it all. RD also wanted to re-negotiate some contract so that HE would get royalties from old VH albums, with which he had absolutely NO involvement. It was just UGLY. The brothers trusted the wrong guy. I believe he's Al's BIL, too.

    You can read it on Guitars101 forum if it's not here somewhere.

    Shari
    "Hey, thanks for the bracelet! Was that one for me?" - Michael Anthony to me in the Golden Ring in Grand Rapids, MI July 9, 2004
    July 9, 2004 - Mike pressed a guitar pick into my hand!
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    "You found me again!" - Mike to me in Detroit, Nov. 2, 2007

  8. #8
    Sinner's Swing! Sunya's Avatar
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    Not Al's brother in law, Kelly's brother in law.
    "Suppose you were an idiot ... And suppose you were a member of Congress... But I repeat myself."
    --Mark Twain


    There's no one as smart as a gambler at the track putting thier last $10.00 on the longest shot of the day.

  9. #9
    Atomic Punk ziggysmalls's Avatar
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    12.13.17 @ 08:51 AM
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    Quote Originally Posted by vh_chick
    Have you read the excerpts from Sammy's tell-all book that was never published? Ray was pitting the brothers against Sammy right away. He told them lies and Ed and Al bought it all. RD also wanted to re-negotiate some contract so that HE would get royalties from old VH albums, with which he had absolutely NO involvement. It was just UGLY. The brothers trusted the wrong guy. I believe he's Al's BIL, too.

    You can read it on Guitars101 forum if it's not here somewhere.

    Shari
    That is Sams side of it though. Probably the most correct one of the bunch but its his view on things.

  10. #10
    Sinner's Swing! vh_chick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunya
    Not Al's brother in law, Kelly's brother in law.

    OK, there ya' go. I knew he was "related" somehow.

    Shari
    "Hey, thanks for the bracelet! Was that one for me?" - Michael Anthony to me in the Golden Ring in Grand Rapids, MI July 9, 2004
    July 9, 2004 - Mike pressed a guitar pick into my hand!
    "We're in the right place!" EVH @ The Joe in Detroit, July 10, 2004
    "Hey! What's up!?" - Mikey, upon recognizing me in the Golden Ring in Chicago after getting his second bracelet, July 21, 2004
    "What is uuuuuuuuuup!!!???" - Mike to me in Detroit, May 12th, 2005, after receiving third bracelet.
    "You found me again!" - Mike to me in Detroit, Nov. 2, 2007

  11. #11
    Atomic Punk Menlow's Avatar
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    06.14.17 @ 06:46 PM
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    I think that when Ray took over VH, he immediately set out to make some money off the band's past. With Rush, he was there from the start and making money from the start. It probably bothered him that VH were still selling tons of their back catalog and he wasn't getting anything. By getting a piece of those albums and wanting the BOV1, he was able to make that money but alienated Sam. He then pushed Sam out the door, teased the public with Dave, and eventually brought in "his guy".

    He ignored a basic rule, "if it aint broke....."

  12. #12
    Little Dreamer Great_Bretzky's Avatar
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    So help me God, should I ever run into Ray I'm going to punch him square in the face. Now being that's I'm a little guy, I'll more than likely break my damn hand on his face, but I'll get my point across, at least to myself. And then of course I'll rot in jail.

    Bretzky

  13. #13
    Atomic Punk sixstring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Great_Bretzky
    So help me God, should I ever run into Ray I'm going to punch him square in the face. Now being that's I'm a little guy, I'll more than likely break my damn hand on his face, but I'll get my point across, at least to myself. And then of course I'll rot in jail.

    Bretzky
    "He better be wearing a cup!"
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]


    "20 minutes (late to work)? Shit. Last year I woke up three weeks too late.
    My advice is to go for the alien abduction story. Look bemused, dishevelled and on the verge of tears as you recount your story of intrusive and degrading medical tests.
    Worked for me anyway. I still have colleagues asking me what it is like to fuck a green womanoid with seventeen breasts.
    Alternatively just walk in and inform everyone that alcoholism is indeed a disease and that they should be less judgemental and perhaps a little more supportive."
    - graeme on the addiction to this place.

    "something tells me that after the nuclear holocaust, there'll be twinkies, cockroaches, and a dave vs. sammy argument going on somewhere".
    - han valen, 6.11.04

    "in my best "saw" scary movie voice: "oh, yes, there will be beagles."
    - hatchetforce, 6.7.06

  14. #14
    Eruption ericjt's Avatar
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    10.20.06 @ 08:33 AM
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    RD's biggest mistake in managing the band was instead of putting out the fires of tension that existed (which Leffler was able to do), he poured fuel on them by seemingly always agreeing with the bros despite what Mike and/or Sam wanted, at least mostly according to Sam's book. I'm sure being "related" to Al didn't help either.

    Hindsight is 20/20 of course, but he was just simply the wrong guy at the wrong time.
    Van Halen Live: 15 shows.
    Have I seen my last one?

  15. #15
    Eruption VH-is-Alive's Avatar
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    IMHO, Ray Daniels probably caused the issues without knowing what he was fucking with. He was probably doing what most would do to maximize his opportunity with the band and maximize what could happen with the fans and do what he felt was right. Unfortunately, apparently Ed Leffler was the one that knew how to really work with VH and get that to happen. Sort of a mistake by just trying to be traditional, which did not work with this band. It could have been any manager, not just RD. It's not any different than when Mike Tyson dropped Kevin Rooney as his manager. He had the world at his hands, but once the greedy money mongers and lawyers got involved, it destroyed him. I'm sure that Leffler probably told lies too, but it just had a different effect on the band. Molding clay is different from putting clay in a mold.

    Blame Ray Daniels, you might, but the brothers is where the trouble lies.
    "I write and play music for a living, I'm not a businessman. It seems like all attorneys ever do is stir up trouble. They create problems that never existed and ream you for half your money, then they try to fix what they started and nail ya for whatever money you got left. I'll tell ya, man, I don't see how these guys sleep at night." --Edward Van Halen

 

 

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