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  1. #1
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    04.04.05 @ 03:24 PM
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    Default Need help with theory!

    Ok...I understand we all need to know scales...but what the hell is the difference between a scale and a key?? Please tell me...'cuz I've wondered about this one for a while. And with scales....why so many different ones?????????? This shit can drive you nuts. Why a -A major over an A minor pentatonic???? The notes are incredibly similar from what I can see...for as long as I've been playing I can't believe I don't know this but I can never get a straight answer! I appreciate any response I get to this, I know theory can be tough...but damn...I can't believe there just aren't any straight fordward anwers out there. Thanks again!!

  2. #2
    Unchained Van Murphenstein's Avatar
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    01.06.08 @ 04:22 PM
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    Lets see if i can confuse you. It's easiest to think of a keyboard. If you look at one there are 12 notes, thats it, then it repeats. Every note can represent the root of a major or minor scale and thus there are 12 keys. Think of the key as the home. If i'm in the key of C (no sharps or flats// all the white keys on a piano) The note C is the home or tonal center of the scale which has the notes-
    c d e f g a b

    confused ???? a Scale is all the notes that make up the key that your in..

  3. #3
    Hot For Teacher riddick's Avatar
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    12.14.17 @ 09:07 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Van Murphenstein
    a Scale is all the notes that make up the key that your in..
    That's pretty much all you need to know. Theory can become very confusing at times. I have these videos of Steve Lukather explain soloing over chords, and what scales to use, and l was quite impressed. Although Steve Lukather always impresses me with his playing anyway. hehe.

    Scott.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Van Murphenstein
    Lets see if i can confuse you. It's easiest to think of a keyboard. If you look at one there are 12 notes, thats it, then it repeats. Every note can represent the root of a major or minor scale and thus there are 12 keys. Think of the key as the home. If i'm in the key of C (no sharps or flats// all the white keys on a piano) The note C is the home or tonal center of the scale which has the notes-
    c d e f g a b

    confused ???? a Scale is all the notes that make up the key that your in..
    Thanks, so a song starting in the key of D...would be defgab then c, meaning ...i don't know what...but the notes closest to the HOME key are...more important??? Fit in better there??? Sorry if I sound like an ass. or it is just silly, maybe I just need a teacher!!

  5. #5
    Hot For Teacher riddick's Avatar
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    12.14.17 @ 09:07 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iluv5150
    Thanks, so a song starting in the key of D...would be defgab then c, meaning ...i don't know what...but the notes closest to the HOME key are...more important??? Fit in better there??? Sorry if I sound like an ass. or it is just silly, maybe I just need a teacher!!
    Not nessessarly, there are plenty of websites that cover scales/keys etc, maybe start on major/minor/pentatonic scales here's a good site http://www.looknohands.com/chordhous.../index_rb.html . Because it is very confusing, chords in a song ditate what key the song is in, even changing 1 chord from a major to say a minor can change a key. I just learnt scales/keys by soloing over songs, finding what key they are in, now that l'm in a few bands, whenever we start to goof around, it's aways good to have some knowledge of scales/keys and a good ear doesn't hurt.

    Like l said before, in the Steve Lukather video l have, he's going over soloing, and he plays an E. normally a guitarist would solo in an E scale, but went over other scales to use, B minor scale sounded great over an E BTW.

    I hope l haven't confused you.

    Riddick.

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    Quote Originally Posted by riddick
    Not nessessarly, there are plenty of websites that cover scales/keys etc, maybe start on major/minor/pentatonic scales here's a good site http://www.looknohands.com/chordhous.../index_rb.html . Because it is very confusing, chords in a song ditate what key the song is in, even changing 1 chord from a major to say a minor can change a key. I just learnt scales/keys by soloing over songs, finding what key they are in, now that l'm in a few bands, whenever we start to goof around, it's aways good to have some knowledge of scales/keys and a good ear doesn't hurt.

    Like l said before, in the Steve Lukather video l have, he's going over soloing, and he plays an E. normally a guitarist would solo in an E scale, but went over other scales to use, B minor scale sounded great over an E BTW.

    I hope l haven't confused you.

    Riddick.
    No, you didn't confuse me ...any more that I already was..lol...I don't mean that in a negative light...thanks for the tip of the website...thanks to all....any other suggestions from you or anyone else would be greatly appreciated!! Thanks again!

  7. #7
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    06.10.05 @ 09:03 AM
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    Basically nothing can really be added to what has been said. I would suggest getting a teacher, most people think they don't need it but here is a perfect example why it's helpful.
    "The wold doesent revolve around DLR, but I like to think so" DLR May 1984

    www.vhcrossingover.tk

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    Hot For Teacher riddick's Avatar
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    12.14.17 @ 09:07 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iluv5150
    No, you didn't confuse me ...any more that I already was..lol...I don't mean that in a negative light...thanks for the tip of the website...thanks to all....any other suggestions from you or anyone else would be greatly appreciated!! Thanks again!
    Like yourself, l'm learning the hard way, l've had about 5 guitar lesson, l've been playing for about 16 years, l knew basic scales, and for the last 1-2 years l've been learning theory. But some days it's like a light switch, and l get it, then some days l don't. I'm thinking of getting some lessons. I just wish l had of stuck with guitar lessons when l was younger.

    Riddick.

  9. #9
    Unchained Van Murphenstein's Avatar
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    01.06.08 @ 04:22 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iluv5150
    Thanks, so a song starting in the key of D...would be defgab then c, meaning ...i don't know what...but the notes closest to the HOME key are...more important??? Fit in better there??? Sorry if I sound like an ass. or it is just silly, maybe I just need a teacher!!
    no prob, try not to get bogged down with theory it can be a bitch, it took me awhile to understand it. If you really want to understand the theory i would get a teacher. Most importantly though use your ear, once you know what a scale sounds like let you ear guide you.

    you have the right thinking by saying that if you were in the key of D then the notes would be -- d e f g a b c ---- but that is not a MAJOR scale, it is a mode of a major scale. You still in the key of C.

    If you understand what a half step and a whole step are and you know the notes on a string you could figure out the notes in any major scale by following this pattern:

    A major scale is this-- W W H W W W H

    W= whole step--- from fret 1 to 3... etc..(having 1 fret inbetween)
    H= Half step--- 1 to 2 etc.. (one fret to the next)

    Glad that I could try to help ya.

    And remember what ED Van Halen said--- There are only 12 notes and you can do whatever the FUCK you want with them.

  10. #10
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    04.04.05 @ 03:24 PM
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    To all of you who responded....again, thanks. I'm gonna' get a teacher...I think it's best. Rock on...VH rules!!

  11. #11
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    scales are all about the intervals; the space between the notes.
    Major scale: W-W-H-W-W-W-H (whole or half steps)
    Minor scale: W-H-W-W-H-W-W

    C Major scale: C D E F G A B C
    D Major scale: D E F# G A B C# D

    Chords generally consist of 4 notes (keeping this simple: major and minor for guitarists like me):
    The root, the third, the fifth, the octave. Now look at C Major scale above:
    C major chord
    Root=C
    3rd=E
    5th=G
    Oct=C

    or for D major:
    Root=D
    3rd=F#
    5th=A
    Oct=D

    Now, keeping the chord formula in mind, to make a minor chord simply flat the 3rd one half step:
    C minor chord
    Root=C
    3rd=Eb
    5th=G
    Oct=C

    or for D minor:
    Root=D
    3rd=F
    5th=A
    Oct=D

    Or when you see Dadd4, simply put a G in there (the 4th degree of the scale) or for Dadd2, add an E note to the chord. If you play a D chord with traditional fingering, lifting your middle finger (on the 1st string) will add the 2 and putting your pinky on the 3rd fret, 1st string will add the 4. All those pretty Triumph or Boston songs in key of D use those tricks.

    If you see Cmaj7, just put in the 7th note of the C major scale which happens to be B.
    But don't confuse major7 chords with 7 chords.
    The song Something by The Beatles is a perfect example of C, Cmaj7, C7:
    (C) Something in the way she (Cmaj7) moves
    (C7) Attracts me like no other (F) lover...

    Nashville numbers and I-IV-V
    Very simple: key of C.
    A I-IV-V progression would be C F G. Just look at the C major scale at the top.
    What would the 2minor chord be? D minor.
    6minor (also referred to as the relative minor)? A minor.
    flatted7? Bb

    It's all math generated from the major scale. Next week: modes.
    Please feel free to correct my gibberish as this is the best I could pick it up over the years with no instruction.

  12. #12
    Eruption VHPoundcake's Avatar
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    06.16.08 @ 08:22 PM
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    Cyberfiddl, That's a lot of great info in the post above. I am in a music theory class in school and here is the site that we use.

    http://www.musictheory.net

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by VHPoundcake
    Cyberfiddl, That's a lot of great info in the post above. I am in a music theory class in school and here is the site that we use.

    http://www.musictheory.net
    Very cool site. Finally, names to go with the spaces.
    Last edited by cyberfiddl; 04.17.05 at 11:22 PM.

 

 

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