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  1. #1
    Hot For Teacher HugeVHfan's Avatar
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    11.25.07 @ 01:11 PM
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    VH should release some or ALL albums on DVD-AUDIO!!!

    I know that DVD-audio isn't the main standard for audio (yet, anyway), but VH should definitely release some (or ALL) of their albums on DVD-audio! Many bands have released their classic albums on DVD-audio, and it sounds SO MUCH BETTER!
    I have the debut VH cd on a 24-karat gold disc, and it sounds AWESOME! (It was remastered, using the original tapes). However, the REMASTERED 6 VH albums that were already released, including the debut album, sound better than the 24-karat gold disc because all 6 albums were on HDCD format (20-bit audio). Is BOBW an HDCD?
    I'm sure that there are third-party companies that would release the DVD-audio discs if WB doesn't want to do it, like the 24-karat gold debut VH disc, as DCC Compact Classics got the rights from WB to release it. Here is some more info on that disc: http://www.epinions.com/musc_mu-289366 , which is expensive and hard to find. If you read the user reviews, it will upset you, as a VH fan, as most people RIP on VH and give them undeserved flack, and don't know what they are talking about!
    If I had to choose four VH albums to release on DVD-audio (2 from DLR-era, and 2 from Sammy-era), I'd go with: Debut album & Fair Warning, 5150 & F.U.C.K. However, I'm sure that they would also release 1984, which is fine by me! WE NEED VH DVD-AUDIO DISCS!!!
    The setup that is required in DVD-audio is that you MUST have a DVD player that has a built-in DVD-audio decoder, and you MUST connect it to the 5.1 ANALOG inputs on your receiver to get the true 24-bit, 96 kHz (or even 192 kHz!) sound!
    By comparison:

    CD: 2 channels, 16-bit audio, 44 kHz
    HDCD: 2 channels, 20-bit audio, 48 kHz (HDCD is backwards-compatible to the regular CD format, but defaults to the specs of above if older equipment or wrong setup is engaged)
    DVD-audio: TRUE 5.1 channels, 24-bit audio, 96 or even 192 kHz
    Last edited by HugeVHfan; 03.09.05 at 12:10 PM.

  2. #2
    Hot For Teacher Pat's Avatar
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    12.09.17 @ 12:49 PM
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    I have quite an elaborate home cinema/sound system set-up, and have machines to play both SACD and DVD-A. I purchased the entire Police back catalogue on SACD and have to say I was severely under-impressed. A quantum sonic leap forward from the CD remasters I already have they certainly are not. I've also got Sting's latest "Sacred Love" on SACD, and other than the fact there is an extended piano jam on the end of one track I again don't hear any real benefits. I don't really enjoy the 5.1 mixes either, after all, I can't remember the last time I saw a band play where the keyboard player was behind me and the bassist to left and the drummer in front etc. Stereo is just fine for me and perhaps more natural for music. I love my DD/DTS 5.1/6.1 for movies, where that immersive environment can really add to the effect of the experience, but not for music. My disappointment with SACD and also a few DTS surround CD's have definitely put me off trying DVD-A, even though I have the appropriate equipment.
    Last edited by Pat; 03.09.05 at 12:23 PM.
    Salt shaker, little lick a lime...

  3. #3
    On Fire 3_6_9 time's Avatar
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    07.29.13 @ 10:00 PM
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    You might want to make sure your setup is right. I also have the Police and Sting SACD & DVD audio respectively (also a DVD audio of The Police GH with an unreleased version of De Do Do Do, De Da Da Da which is pretty cool) I have listened to the regular version of those albums hundreds of times but when I played the SACD or DVD audio versions they really came alive and I heard parts of the songs that I never noticed before because they were buried in the 2 channel verisons. I am not a huge fan of regular remasters because a lot of them don't actually do anything but I am all for any great record in 5.1. This may also be because I am a musician and I am used to hearing instruments all around me. Just my opinion.

  4. #4
    Super Duper Frontman YankeeRose's Avatar
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    12.11.17 @ 05:55 PM
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    No thanks! I don't listen to CD's on my DVD.
    Right Now you're reading my post!


    I can't stand rap....people who can't sing do rap....you can sing rebellion as well as talk it....Hitler would have been in a rap band...

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    2006 VHL Fantasy Hockey Champ!

  5. #5
    Eruption Lightning Fingers's Avatar
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    03.01.12 @ 05:52 PM
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    I agree with HugeVHFan - let's get the best albums ever on DVD-A in 192 kHz 24 bit stereo and 5.1. I 'remastered' my own versions of 1984 into DVD-A, except I don't have MLP to compress the formats. So, I was stuck with making 2 DVD-A. My 1984 DVD-As sounded amazing: I took them to a local store to play them on a theatre system and the salesperson asked where I bought the DVDs. I told him I made the discs. He loved it. I erased those DVD-RW discs - I think I'll do VHI next.
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  6. #6
    Hot For Teacher HugeVHfan's Avatar
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    ALL ALBUMS from ALL ERAS!!!
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    11.25.07 @ 01:11 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightning Fingers
    I agree with HugeVHFan - let's get the best albums ever on DVD-A in 192 kHz 24 bit stereo and 5.1. I 'remastered' my own versions of 1984 into DVD-A, except I don't have MLP to compress the formats. So, I was stuck with making 2 DVD-A. My 1984 DVD-As sounded amazing: I took them to a local store to play them on a theatre system and the salesperson asked where I bought the DVDs. I told him I made the discs. He loved it. I erased those DVD-RW discs - I think I'll do VHI next.
    You erased 1984 DVD-A? Bummer, because if you still had it, I'd ask to trade with you! Let me know when you're done with VH-1! Also, what software do you use to upscale them? If you don't want to say on here, you can PM me. Thanks!
    P.S. That's AWESOME how the salesperson asked where did you get those DVD's! He knew that you had good stuff, and that it must have sounded GREAT! Also, it shows that people that are SAVY about new technology do indeed have a desire for DVD-A.

  7. #7
    Sinner's Swing! jimmy's Avatar
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    04.29.16 @ 07:05 AM
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    I'd like to hear the album in the way that Ed and Ted wanted me to hear it. If something was recorded in something other than "Stereo" than I'd like to hear it. If the Stereo sound I'm hearing at home is close to what they heard in the studio as they mastered, then I'd be happy.

    This "up converting" seems a little strange to me, but then, didn't Ozzy have a bass player rerecord some of his solo stuff......so whatever.
    Actually I think most of us are Dave, Sam, and Mike fans. There's just a small group of people who have strange allegiances and like to get into petty pissing contests that I can't believe everyone on this site isn't bored of. - Brett

  8. #8
    Existentially Uncertain Fontcow's Avatar
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    03.13.17 @ 07:58 PM
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    There is a lot of technical stuff required to understand all this high resolution audio stuff.

    First, in order to produce high resolution stereo (we're just talking 2-track L/R first here) releases for DVD-A and SACD, the original source material must be recorded at the high resolution standards of 24-bit 48kHz, 96kHz or 192kHz (as opposed to the "redbook" CD standard of 16-bit 44.1kHz). Upconverting the sound from original 16-bit or 20-bit 44.1kHz or 48kHz masters will not produce any different of a sound on high resolution media such as DVD-A or SACD. Not all music or bands have recorded their original master tapes at this high resolution. I'd be surprised if anything at 5150 has been recorded at this high resolution and even more surprised if any of the material recorded before VH began using 5150. But, if the high resolution recordings exist, or more importantly, high resolution masters that the recording company own and have in their possession, then I'm all for releasing it on SACD or DVD-A.

    Now, for 5.1 surround sound, this is another matter completely. To release stuff in this format, you have to go back to the original multi-track masters, and not only deal with the original mix, but now you have to "steer" those mixes into the 5.1 discreet channels, which for those unfamiliar with 5.1, are front Left, front Center, front Right, surround Left, surround Right, and a dedicated LFE (low frequency effects) subwoofer channel (which is the .1 in 5.1). This takes an inordinate amount of time and effort in order to first find and setup the original master tapes with the original mixes, which, don't exist on stuff older than the mid-eighties before digital consoles would "memorize" or "total recall" the mixing board sliders for different parts of the songs. So, if all you have are multi-track master tapes with the mixing either notated on paper somewhere or automated from a "total recall" system, first you have to remix the sound to sound like the original recordings. You don't have to, you can create new mixes, but rabid fans get real testy when music you're used to listening for 20 years sounds different because the drums, bass, vocals, or anything are changed a little bit, even with something so simple as volume. Now, once you've mixed everything like it sounded, now you need a "surround sound" engineer, a speciality these days, to help you mix it properly for a 5.1 mix that will sound good on everybody's different home systems (which should be calibrated with an SPL meter--most aren't). For more on this, here's an interesting 68-page document from the Recording Academy's Producers and Engineers Wing:

    http://www.grammy.com/pe_wing/5_1_Rec.pdf

    That should get you up to speed on exactly the complex process of producing high resolution releases, in addition to preparing a recording for a 5.1 mix.

    Now, why do I explain this complex process? Because there is no way in hell Eddie Van Halen or anyone associated with 5150 is going to allow this "remixing". Heck, it's difficult to get them to just release songs, let alone albums, or even box sets. You think we'll ever get EVH to sanction a 5.1 mix of his music from the original multi-track masters? Not in this lifetime. And sadly, the DVD-A and SACD scene is predominately ruled by artists who want their music in this format, not the record companies because it's not even close to a standard and sales are severely lacking with not too many in the general consumer demographic interested other than audiophiles.

    Thus, we probably will never get a Van Halen back catalog of high resolution SACD or DVD-A releases because (a) the high resolution masters may not or have never existed and (b) it's a big, big process in order to prepare a recording for a simply stereo release, let alone remixing for a 5.1 mix.

    IMHO, do I love 5.1 audio? You betcha. It doesn't bother me if the mix is spread out to 5.1 channels. In my philosophy, we're just so used to stereo with left and right because that's all we've had all these years. And as far as the arguement (which many, many people subscribe to) that the keyboards were never meant to be behind you, or this or that, hogwash. Who ever records in a studio as a band setup in front of you like in concert anyway? Most of the time in a studio nobody is recording at the same time anyway, and just think of it as the band playing in a circle facing each other and you the listener are sitting in the middle of the room, surrounded by the band (which is what most bands do when rehearsing or recording anyway--only live do they setup as drums middle and everyone else spread out from left to right in front of you). Most of these 5.1 mixes (the non-novelty gimmick ones, anyway) aren't like an old Beatles recording where the guitar is one speaker, the bass in another, the vocals in another, etc. Usually it's mixed in a smooth, expansively "surrounded" mix that doesn't shift. Rarely does one sound do a circular "move" through all the speakers (although I've read that Queen's 5.1 surround mixes are like this). Music is creative. Let it breathe. And if by spreading it out to 5.1 channels instead of 2.0 accomplishes this, then let it expand. Now, some 5.1 mixes are a novelty and too gimmicky with stuff coming from everywhere, but a lot of engineers are getting good at it now. Usually the main band: bass, rhythm guitars, lead guitars, drums, keyboards; they're in the main Left/Right. Then the vocals are mostly funneled to the Center channel. And what gets put in the rear surrounds are a little bit of the master rhythm track, the backing vocals, textural stuff like guitar accents, synths, horns, etc. For you audio enthusiasts out there, try Steely Dan's "Everything Must Go", the Blue Man Group's "Audio" or Peter Gabriel's "Play" DVD with DTS 96khz/24-bit mix for a spin on your high-end 5.1 systems and then tell me that 5.1 doesn't expand the sound of a music mix in a way that isn't "alien" and is definitely pleasing to the ears. The Peter Gabriel disc is an excellent example for this because the Dolby 2.0 mix is the original mixes from the original albums while the Dolby 5.1 and DTS 5.1 96/24 (which blows away the Dolby one hands-down) are new mixes especially for 5.1 in which new unused elements are brought in from the original multi-track masters while some others used for the original masters are removed. It might anger purists, but at least the original is also on the DVD, so the new surround mixes are exactly that: NEW! I can't recommend to anyone who considers themselves an audiophile enough this Peter Gabriel "Play" DVD. Amazing!

    Anyway, in the end I'm not too sure Van Halen would sound good in 5.1 because there aren't really enough "elements" to their music to create an expansive mix, but I'd love to be given the opportunity and choice if EVH and company were so inclined to give it a try. But don't hold your breath.
    Last edited by Fontcow; 03.09.05 at 03:11 PM.

  9. #9
    Eruption
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    06.22.15 @ 03:18 PM
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    Fontcow.

    You are the brightest guy I have ever read posting on this forum.

    I could seriously smoke some weed with you.
    not another dime from me, fellas...

    tinzen

  10. #10
    Romeo Delight Shaun's Avatar
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    09.08.06 @ 08:23 AM
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    If anybody wants to sample some DVD-A, I have a bunch of them and my favorite 2 - BY FAR - are Metallica's "Black" and 3 Doors Down "Away From The Sun". The Surround Mix on those are spectacular!

    Make sure you you use the 5.1 analog (DVD Multi) setting on your receiver to fully enjoy DVD-A!

  11. #11
    Atomic Punk
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    12.23.16 @ 10:32 AM
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    LOL, we're still waiting for the Sammy era remasters....and VH3 ain't even in print anymore.... nice to dream though.

  12. #12
    Eruption Casemeister's Avatar
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    03.22.17 @ 07:01 AM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightning Fingers
    I agree with HugeVHFan - let's get the best albums ever on DVD-A in 192 kHz 24 bit stereo and 5.1. I 'remastered' my own versions of 1984 into DVD-A, except I don't have MLP to compress the formats. So, I was stuck with making 2 DVD-A. My 1984 DVD-As sounded amazing: I took them to a local store to play them on a theatre system and the salesperson asked where I bought the DVDs. I told him I made the discs. He loved it. I erased those DVD-RW discs - I think I'll do VHI next.
    Uh... putting a CD on a DVD would still give you the CD sound. Putting it on a different format doesn't add anything. It's still the same old PCM sound.

    FWIW, the current VH remasters are okay, but they're a little bit bright and they're pretty heavily compressed/maximised.

    If they were to do hi-rez remasters I'd prefer to see them on SACD. A lot of those discs are hybrids, and SACD is considered a better format than DVD-A, anyway.

    As for the DCC disc not sounding as good as the remasters... I highly doubt that. A 20 bit CD isn't automatically better than a 16 bit CD. It's all in the mastering. A DVD-A or SACD won't automatically sound better than a CD; it depends on who mastered it. The guy who mastered the DCC CD, Steve Hoffman, is one of the world's best mastering engineers. The guy who did the VH CDs made them bright and overcompressed them. They're okay, but they're nothing special. Some of them sound pretty harsh when you turn them up (DD comes to mind).
    Waylon Jennings: 1937-2002.
    "There ain't nothin' quite as sad as watching your heroes die."

    RIP, Hoss!

  13. #13
    Romeo Delight
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    12.29.12 @ 06:28 PM
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    DVD-A and SACD superior to CD's. But they are only as good as the player you play them on. Most hybrid CD DVD SACD DVD-A players don't do it very well. They have to make too many compromises to play every format. If you want good sound buy a dedicated player. Or prepare to pay around $1000 for a Sony 999es or something. The thing is I hear SACD and DVD-A is just about dead. The average listener doesn't care about them. They ar happy with thier crapy downloads for 99 cents a pop. The serious aoudiophiles listen to vinyl or spend mega bucks on very expensive esoteric CD players. I'm a vinyl guy. Vinyl blows away CD's and DVD-A any day. Plus you can get records used cheap. Not only am I moving away from digital. I'm going back to tubes. Tubes are much better than solid scrape. It's a journey I am enjoying very much.

  14. #14
    Good Enough kowski's Avatar
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    12.03.17 @ 11:54 AM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casemeister
    FWIW, the current VH remasters are okay, but they're a little bit bright and they're pretty heavily compressed/maximised.
    The only remaster I've heard is the first album, and I didn't like how bright it was. That was the first thing I noticed. I prefer the original CD version to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by siranthony
    Vinyl blows away CD's and DVD-A any day.
    And on vinyl it is even better! I love records.

  15. #15
    Romeo Delight
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    Oh and one other thing. Someone said that the ressues prabably wouldn't sound any better than a CD because the masters wouldn't be any better quality. I seriously doubt thats the case. Only really cheap studios recorded in 16 bit. Most used pro 16 or 24 track tape. Then they would master it to analogue two track tape for Records and tapes. There might be a digital master for CD's. Some times they go straight to digital mastering. And some other recorded completely in digital. Contrary to popular belief digital is NOT better than analogue. Let me repeat. Analogue is far superior to digital. At some point digital may get close but that will be alot of bits and bytes. Most likely if a recording was put on vinyl there is a analogue master. But not always. Us vinyl people hate when we get a digitaly mastered record because it just sounds like a CD. I'm sure if they released a DVD-A or SACD from an analogue master it would sound much better than a cd. But I wouldn't buy it. I have the record.

 

 

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