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  1. #1
    5150 clawedmonet's Avatar
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    12.18.17 @ 02:31 PM
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    Default "Anti-War" Movement seeks new Strategy

    I suggest that they start with a more honest approach: rebrand themselves the "Anti-Democracy," "Pro-Tyranny" or just plain old-fashioned "Anti-American" movement. It would make their image sleeker and easier to understand and would attract alliances with islamofascists, socialists and communists everywhere. It's a win-win! The article (from AFP, if you can believe it!) is below.

    Can you imagine what the meeting was like? Aside from a bunch of underworked, over privileged elites drinking Starbucks coffees and talking about which VW they own, I would have loved to hear how many times people said, "If only the elections in Iraq and Afghanistan didn't go so damn well!" They'll probably just fund the insurgency.

    **********************************************

    US anti-war movement looking for second wind

    Wed Feb 23,11:55 AM ET

    NEW YORK (AFP) - The US anti-war movement is looking for ways to revive itself, following President George W. Bush (news - web sites)'s reelection and in the face of divided public opinion, to see US troops out of Iraq (news - web sites).

    Some 500 representatives of pacifist organizations, former combatants, soldiers' families, as well as actor and activist Danny Glover (news), met last weekend in Saint Louis, Missouri, for the first time since the start of Bush's second term, seeking a united strategy for their efforts.

    "United For Peace and Justice" the name of the coalition seeking to set its strategy in the coming months, organized the big February 2003 and August 2004 marches in New York, and said demos will be held on March 19 -- the second anniversary of the launch of the US war in Iraq.

    In Fayetteville, North Carolina, home to the Fort Bragg military base, the demos will be organized by former soldiers and relatives of military. UFPJ also aims to get people together for a May 1 gathering in Central Park, New York, permit allowing.

    "This conference is partly to strengthen the networks that exist, to solidify our coalition and also to look ahead to March 19, that weekend, the second anniversary of the war, and there is a new resolve to bring this occupation to an end," said Bill Dobbs, coalition spokesman.

    "The peace movement in this country expanded dramatically in the last two years," he continues.

    A "sign of continued vitality" is that "so many hundreds of people have come to St Louis, in the heartland this weekend."

    And while the group will limit its protests to the Iraq situation, "certainly we would respond if there was an invasion of Iran," Dobbs adds.

    "But in the near period, people certainly want to focus on Bush's vulnerabilities and do everything possible to end the occupation."

    Most Americans believe that US troops should now remain in Iraq and finish their work, though many are critical of the war itself. According to a February 8-9 poll by FoxNews, 46 percent believe getting involved in the war was a good idea, compared to 49 percent who did not.

    The success of the January 30 election served only to make that trend more acute.

    "People came away somewhat more optimistic about the prospects for democracy" in the wake of the vote, said Scott Keeter, research director at the Pew Institute.

    "We also don't see a significant number of people at this time who believe the US should withdraw from Iraq.

    "Given that the polls are still showing that a majority of the public -- although only small majorities -- says we should stay there until a stable government is established, there really isn't a lot of room for a significant anti-war movement," he says.

    But because people do not generally at present view the war as "both a mistake and unwinnable", "the potential size of the movement is limited at present," Keeter said.

    Keeter does not see a resemblance with the Vietnam war.

    "The number of American casualties (in Vietnam) really dwarfed the number of American casualties we are experiencing now,"

    The anti-war movement reserves its arguments to the unpredictable human and financial cost of the Iraqi war, recruiting problems, and also counts on some weighty spokesmen and women.

    "Gold Star Families for Peace" formed recently, comprising 50 families of some 1,450 affected by the loss of a loved one in Iraq, to weigh in on the debate.

    "Our challenge is always to try bring more people working against the occupation," said Dobbs.

    "One of the thrilling things about being in Saint-Louis is helping to energize the groups right here and also in the whole region, and there are a lot of young people here who give us a lot of hope that there is somebody to pass the torch to."

  2. #2
    Atomic Punk
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    05.31.14 @ 08:17 PM
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    How about mass suicide?

    I wonder how many of the anti-war-they-don't-have-to-fight-anayway have or are planning to withhold their federal income-tax out of protest? Tax payers are funding this, how can you protoest in good faith while funding the war at the same time? I ask this only because I some priest friends actually spent time in federal prison for withholding their income-taxes to protest the Vietnam war.
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  3. #3
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    07.17.17 @ 07:19 AM
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    Quote Originally Posted by clawedmonet
    I suggest that they start with a more honest approach: rebrand themselves the "Anti-Democracy," "Pro-Tyranny" or just plain old-fashioned "Anti-American" movement. l

    If it is "American" to be Pro War then we are in a lot worse shape than i thought. the fact that people have differing views is what makes America, America. There is nothing Anti-American about protesting your government and its obviously flawed foreign policy.

  4. #4
    Hang 'Em High Wray's Avatar
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    ian, clawed's hyperbole is no worse than yours.
    Last edited by Wray; 02.23.05 at 08:52 PM.

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    12.03.17 @ 09:00 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by ian
    There is nothing Anti-American about protesting your government and its obviously flawed foreign policy.
    It's like duct(k) tape and prescription drugs...they both rule. I think. Out.
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  6. #6
    Atomic Punk MikeL's Avatar
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    I was never in favor of the war, but these numb-nuts need to realize that their fight was lost in 2000. If they want to be effective at anything, they need to target their efforts at something beyond Iraq, or creating an effective exit strategy. We don't have one, and we'll be there until we do.

    I've got some respect for these people, though. They're at least making an effort (however misguided) towards what they believe in. Their most vocal detractors, such as CM, just sit around bitching.

  7. #7
    Atomic Punk LLFHS's Avatar
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    07.30.17 @ 08:59 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by clawedmonet
    I suggest that they start with a more honest approach: rebrand themselves the "Anti-Democracy," "Pro-Tyranny" or just plain old-fashioned "Anti-American" movement. "
    I'm probably going to regret even getting involved in this thread, but I have to ask:
    Do you really think that harshly of us that don't approve of the war? You honestly think I hate democracy and my country? Why then am I still here (especially in SOUTHERN California)? By all arguments I should have gone to Canada, yes?
    Last edited by LLFHS; 02.23.05 at 10:06 PM.
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  8. #8
    Hang 'Em High RRMB's Avatar
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    05.21.17 @ 06:42 PM
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    I want to respond to this, but I have no clue what the point would be. It would just re-open old wounds that are best left scabbed over and not picked at. As ex-military, people automatically assume that I'm all gung-ho for war. And, I'm not for or against. I go case by case. In my case Afghanistan was good; Iraq was bad. But that is my opinion, and you're not going to change it.

    Anymore I'm tired of arguing with people that want to try and change my opinion. The thing they don't get is that it's my opinion. They have their opinion. A person stating that my opinion is wrong and their's is the right one is a person so devoid of common sense and detatched from reality, the wish you could be "voted off."

    My brother comes home next month, I'm selfishly extatic about that. Over 1500 families are forever torn and broken because of this war. Let's focus on the "prize" now. It's not about who's right or wrong. It's about life and death. We should ALL be aiming to get EVERYONE home alive from this point forward.

    Until the war affects you on a personal level, like it has me in the past few weeks, you have no right to tell me my opinion is wrong or right. People can be "patriots" and have a dissenting view of the Iraq war.

    "A patriot's job, first and foremost, is to be ready to defend one's country, from it's government."
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  9. #9
    Hang 'Em High Wray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LowLifeFlatHeadScum
    I'm probably going to regret even getting involved in this thread, but I have to ask:
    Do you really think that harshly of us that don't approve of the war? You honestly think I hate democracy and my country? Why then am I still here (especially in SOUTHERN California)? By all arguments I should have gone to Canada, yes?
    C'mon, LLFHS. Don't you know that it's much easier to put labels on everyone instead of putting their views into perspective?

    Critical thought seems to be a lost art. ian and clawed may differ in principle, but they're really no different philosophically.

    I have my reasons for supporting our actions in Iraq just as you have your reasons for not, but we're neither "pro-war" nor "anti-American."
    Last edited by Wray; 02.23.05 at 10:21 PM.

  10. #10
    Atomic Punk LLFHS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wray
    I have my reasons for supporting our actions in Iraq just as you have your reasons for not, but we're neither "pro-war" nor "anti-American."
    Being on opposite sides of the fence as we are, I can live with that assessment.
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  11. #11
    Atomic Punk
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    Quote Originally Posted by LowLifeFlatHeadScum
    I'm probably going to regret even getting involved in this thread, but I have to ask:
    Do you really think that harshly of us that don't approve of the war? You honestly think I hate democracy and my country? Why then am I still here (especially in SOUTHERN California)? By all arguments I should have gone to Canada, yes?
    Nope. Honest debate and a thoughtful protest are always respected by me.
    The biggest problem is that the anti-war protestor types lack focus, they make silly charges and accusations and ,worse, they will fly opposing flags. I found spray painted near the military base here " Saddam Lives!", who the fuck can respect anybody who'd spray paint something like that? How can you be anti-war and then embrace a mass-murdering sociopath? Up at UC Berkeley, Jewish students who oppose the war can't attend the rallies because the Pro-Palestinian assholes harrass and attack them...is this Peace?
    A.N.S.W.E.R. is an arm of the American Communist Party. They also protested our actions in Kosovo and Bosnia to STOP GENOCIDE, how can you respect people like that? In the case of Kosovo and Bosnia, war was the final option. Not to act would have been the immoral thing to do.

    They are stuck in the 1960s, all they do is march and have rallies. Some are now lashing out at recruiters (how fucking stupid is that?) and people in uniform, just like those sorry fucks did back in the Vietnam war. Those same people spent the next 40 years apologizing for their thoughtless and evil acts.

    Why not try something productive? Why not have a anti-war/Habbitat For Humainty weekend and get 10,000 people to show up and build homes for the poor? No speeches or slogans, just let everyone know that you are from a peace group and you want to change the world. Let's see Sean Hannity rail on that. How about getting a group of anti-war types to volunteer at a VA hospital? Read books and mail to the blind, and again no speeches or t-shirts with dumb slogans. What's Ann Culter gonna say? How about cleaning up a highway or volunteering at a children's library to help kids learn to read? A food drive or bake-sale to raise money for veteran's charities as an act of respect? That would be great, people would respect peace activists.

    The sad thing is that we all know that's not going to happen. Exactly because it would be the smarter move. Anti-war types will simply continue to march in the streets and hold rallies with the same old speeches.

    Maybe that's a good thing.
    Last edited by Axxman300; 02.23.05 at 10:38 PM.
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  12. #12
    Atomic Punk LLFHS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axxman300
    Nope. Honest debate and a thoughtful protest are always respected by me.

    [edited for bevity]
    Well without getting long-winded (not that you are - I'm just getting a bit tired here at this hour), I think the idea of someone flying a pro-Saddam flag while still claiming to be American is a tad bit absurd. I think people like that aren't so much making a statement as they are just trying to piss people off. It's no different than being a board troll.

    And the other ideas you expressed (helping out at a VA hospital and such), I think they're brilliant, and I know for a fact that many against the war DO support the military. Hell, I support the military. My best friend from high school is there as we speak. I want the silly soambitch to come home.

    There is a bit of generalization on your post though....how do you know that I, for instance, have never done anything nor would do anything to help with things like giving to food drives and such? I don't mind one iota that you may be a Bush supporter, but man.....blanket statements like that just show me that you have something of a closed mind. It would be like me telling you that the only reason you support the war effort is to bomb brown people. I would be just as flawed in the thought process department for saying such a thing about someone.
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  13. #13
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    I didn't say that you didn't help out or do something positive. I don't think that you are part of the problem either, I sure don't believe you are anit-American.

    I generalize because that's what the folks who organize the anti-war rallies do. The sad thing is that at this point, war isn't the issue. We made a mess in Iraq, we are responsable and we have to hang around until it's stable enough for us to leave. Marching in the street solves nothing, It never did.
    Out here the signs read " No Blood For Oil" and " End War & Racisism", then right next to those will be "Israel Out Of Palestine", along with the Palistinian flag.

    You can see why I'm more than a little confused.
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  14. #14
    Good Enough extreme red roth's Avatar
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    Default Wrong Wrong Wrong

    To the original poster:

    Dude, your very statements are anti-american. Do I support what we are doing in IRAQ? Yes I do. Am I happy about it? No I'm not. Having said that, what makes this country different, what makes this country great, is our tolerance of ALL opinions, cultures, etc...or at least our great struggle to do so. Where else in the world are their temples across the street from Catholic churches?

    Let people protest. Let people question what we are doing in Iraq or anywhere else. It keeps our leaders on their toes. It makes them explain their actions. It gives me a clearer picture of both sides of the arguement.

    Again, I think eventually history will show we did the right thing with Iraq, but NOBODY is ever 100% correct about anything. There are always two sides to every story.

    Your opions that people who protest the war are communists are dangerous to our very way of life. Please rethink your position immediately. - John
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    And what could have been a very dangerous issue seems to have been discussed with civility by all here. This is why I am glad Brett kept this board going!

 

 

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