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  1. #1
    Atomic Punk WinterlessIceness's Avatar
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    National Intelligence?

    Bush names Negroponte intelligence chief

    WASHINGTON (CNN) -- President Bush on Thursday nominated John Negroponte, the U.S. ambassador to Iraq, as the first director of national intelligence.

    Bush said that Negroponte would be his principal adviser on intelligence issues and would have authority over the budgets of the 15 U.S. intelligence agencies.

    Negroponte also will have the authority to order the collection of new intelligence, information sharing between agencies and the establishment of common standards, Bush said.

    "Vesting these in a single official who reports directly to me will make our intelligence efforts better coordinated, more efficient and more effective," Bush said.

    "The director's responsibility is straightforward and demanding," he said. "If we're going to stop the terrorists before they strike, we must ensure that our intelligence agencies work as a single, unified enterprise.

    "John will make sure those whose duty it is to defend America have the information we need to make the right decisions."

    Negroponte, 65, has been the top U.S. diplomat in Iraq since June.

    He was the U.S. ambassador to the United Nations from 2001 to 2004. (Profile)

    Bush also announced that he had chosen Lt. Gen. Michael Hayden, director of the National Security Agency, as Negroponte's deputy.

    The intelligence overhaul bill that Bush signed into law in December created the intelligence czar position. The legislation sought to implement the recommendations of the 9/11 commission that investigated the 2001 terrorist attacks in the United States.

    The job will be one of the the most powerful in the U.S. government. The Senate must confirm the Negroponte, who called the post "the most challenging assignment I have undertaken in more than 40 years of government service."

    Bush said that Negroponte's skill as a diplomat would help him him negotiate the jockeying between the Pentagon, CIA and other agencies.

    He said that those agencies' existing chains of command would remain in place and that military commanders would "continue to have quick access to the intelligence they need to achieve victory on the battlefield."

    Goss to report to Negroponte
    Bush said the relationship between the White House and CIA would be vital. CIA Director Porter Goss would report to Negroponte.

    "The CIA will retain its core of responsibilities for collecting human intelligence, analyzing intelligence from all sources and supporting American interests abroad at the direction of the president," Bush said.

    Some critics have said that the director's duties and authority have not been spelled out clearly.

    Before the announcement, Sen. Jay Rockefeller of West Virginia, the ranking Democrat on the Senate Intelligence Committee, said Thursday that Congress did not want to handcuff the director.

    "I think the fact that all of the lines aren't crossed and every decision isn't made about what powers the DNI has is an advantage for the DNI because a vacuum invites power. I think it is much more important that the DNI be able to come in, he or she, in order to fill that out according to their own instincts," Rockefeller said.

    "If we had prescribed in Congress each of the relationships between the agencies, I think that would have been an enormous mistake and would have rendered this person more useless. This person can exercise power, and I think that's good."

    The day before, Rockefeller had criticized Bush for taking so long to name a director.

    "Two months have now passed since the bill signing ceremony, and the position of director of national intelligence remains vacant, not even a person nominated. To me, this is unacceptable," he said Wednesday at a Senate Intelligence Committee hearing.

    Sen. Pat Roberts, R-Kansas, the committee's chairman, said he shared Rockefeller's frustrations, but he noted the importance of choosing the right person.

    Roberts also reminded the committee the bill indicated the Bush administration had until June 17 to appoint a director.

    "It is my opinion that the administration is also awaiting the report of the independent [weapons of mass destruction] commission, part of whose job or task is to take a look at the intelligence reform bill and make some recommendations," Roberts said.

    Bush appointed this commission to investigate faulty prewar intelligence that Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein's regime had weapons of mass destruction. The administration cited such a program in its decision to invade Iraq in March 2003, but inspectors have found no stockpiles of weapons.

    Source - CNN.com

    ----------


    What does that mean, National Intelligence? A little brother of CIA ?

  2. #2
    Atomic Punk
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    05.31.14 @ 08:17 PM
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    The Irony of the National Intelligence Director is that his job is to oversee the intel from the other agencies...a place where intelligence is centrally located...a central intelligence agency

    Yup, C.I.A. = Central Intelligence Agency. This new office does what the CIA was supposed to be doing. The problem is that since 1947, the government slowly limited the CIA's responsabilities.

    The truely sad thing about this change is that it's cosmetic, it doesn't change the problems that lead to the attacks on 9/11/2001. From what I hear, that's actually gotten worse.

    **shrug**
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  3. #3
    Baluchitherium JWS_5150's Avatar
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    Yay bureaucracy!

    *watches future federal tax refunds continue to shrink*
    Last edited by JWS_5150; 02.18.05 at 03:13 PM.
    I'm one of those crazies on your block.

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  4. #4
    Atomic Punk WinterlessIceness's Avatar
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    That's pretty much what I've been thinking. There are like 5 intelligence agencies, plus this one? I am officially puzzled

  5. #5
    Atomic Punk MikeL's Avatar
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    Something like a dozen agencies, actually.

    While Axx's post is a fun play on words, it doesn't convey the history of how any of this came to be. The CIA was formed to put all of the overseas intelligence gathering services under one roof in the late '40s, because it had previously been done with lots of overlap and jurisdictional squabbles between the State Department, the FBI, and the military. The CIA was designed to operate within restricted boundaries because of recent world events involving secret police and intelligence agencies. That's why so many other agencies have sprung up between then and now.

    The changes made post-9/11 stem are just a reflection on the changing needs of the country in terms of intelligence. Some of the old conventions aren't applicable any more, just as was the case when the CIA was formed. The DNI is a cabinet-level position, designed to collect and summarize all intelligence information for the President.

  6. #6
    Atomic Punk
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    It doesn't address jack, it's a feel-good trojan horse. It doesn't fix the intel failure of 9/11, in fact it may lead to another.

    The failure was caused by a "squabble" between the FBI's conter-terror head, John O'Neil (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/knew/), the CIA's "Alec Station" chief - Michael Scheuer (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...359526-4014527) and White House conter-terrorism czar Richard Clarke. The FBI wouldn't share what they had on Al Quaeda with the CIA and the CIA returned the favor. It was all about ego, the CIA's Scheuer resented being forced by the White House (Clarke) to work with the FBI in the first place. O'Neil thought Scheuer was a punk and bot O'Neil and Scheuer thought Richard Clarke was an asshole.

    In short, what you had was three big babies in sitting on information that, had they shared with eachother, would have spelled out Al Quaeda's plans to attack using hijacked passenger jets.

    Had any one of these agencies been but in charge as the single entitiy this might - might - not have happened.

    The NID exists to force the different agencies to work together and threaten them with budget cuts if they don't play nice. This is why the Pentagon has gone off and formed it's own intelligence department, not that it's a good idea, but I can see where they don't want to be sent on another WMD goose-chase again.

    The CIA was formed out of Donovan's OSS. It, along with the NSA and the NRO were chartered with the National Security Act of 1947 (still in effect, this act makes the Patriot Act look like the theme song to Barney the Dinosaur). The CIA took information gathered by the NSA (which also uses military SIGINT along with it's own networks), DIA along with it's own "In-House" intel gathering; then it would evaluate the entire picture and create a report for the President and Congress. After Watergate and the "Church Committee", the CIA was banned from collecting intelligence within the U.S (that became the exclusive domain of the FBI). The CIA also expanded it's technical intel collection options, this strayed into the NSA's backyard, causing friction there. The CIA was origonally 90% HUMINT (people powered) while the NSA was TECHINT (sattelytes and other electronic goodies), today the CIA is about60% TECHINT, worse they're field agents in the 1990s were few and far between. For Iraq, the CIA had ONE GUY to cover the entire country. This inspite of the fact that we were dropping bombs on Iraq at least once a week because they were shooting at our planes in the no-fly zone. This lapse in judgement was typical, remember when we dropped a pair of 2000lbs bombs into the Chinese Embassy in Belgrade durring Allied Freedom? Same thing, after our intervention in Bosnia Belgrade remained a threat. Did the CIA bother to update it's maps of the Serbian capitol? Nope. It would have taken them four days and cost them almost nothing except gas, it's not like the Chinese were hiding, they even had a sign at the front gate and flew their flag...duh.

    You'd think that 9/11 would serve as a wake up call but in the end nothing changed where it needed to. The biggest weak-point is the House and Senate oversite committees who still insist on cowing the intel agencies into non-action.
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  7. #7
    Atomic Punk MikeL's Avatar
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    Once you get past your indignation, have a look at the larger picture that extends out beyond the immediate problems.

  8. #8
    Atomic Punk
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    In the larger picture, I see a circle-jerk.
    "Nothing is ever what it seems but everything is exactly what it is." - B. Banzai


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  9. #9
    Atomic Punk WinterlessIceness's Avatar
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    Anyway, guys - is the point of this new system to gather info from all intelligence units and provide it compiled to the White House? That way, NI is goin' to be the most powerful organization after the State and the military?

  10. #10
    Atomic Punk MikeL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axxman300
    In the larger picture, I see a circle-jerk.
    It's easy to sit on the outside and criticize, while doing nothing to improve the system and having no real idea of the various constraints that the people who've designed it operate under. There will always be compromises, because no system exists in a vacuum. It's not a science experiment, or some theoretical 'perfect-word' intellectual exercise.

    People are too quick to complain, and far too slow to get involved themselves to try and fix their perceived gripes.

  11. #11
    Atomic Punk
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    It's not a theoretical exercize.

    There is a systemic layer that retards the flow of information from where it's collected then analyzed to where it needs to go. This layer is made up of department heads and deputy directors who: A - Want to protect their jobs, so they eliminate any and all risk and: B - Want to protect and maintain their department's relevance (and budget), thus they with hold key information so that they can keep their chips in the game. No, not every department has this problem but some of the key ones do. The NID's office runs the risk of making this worse by forcing the issue and threatening budget cuts. If the NID thinks that the CIA's spy-sats can do the job why should they let the NSA get new ones? If the SE Asian desk can't convince the NID to task them a bird for six months because the South American desk says they've got some kind of AQ/Colombian FARC link then where do they go? Hand it off to the military?

    It's feel-good legislation.

    The fact is that most of the loop-holes were quietly fixed in 2002, but then you look at Iraq and not only did you have a strategic intel failure but tactical as well. Our troops ran into whole armored divisions that they didn't know where there. This screams to the fundimental failure of some basic principles of recconaisance and intelligence gathering. If the purpose of the NID is to prevent another 9/11, it fails and if it's designed to prevent another Iraq it probably falls short there too. The things needed to fix the problem were already done by the time Bush signed the NID into existance.

    I know this because I have family who work at NSA, I'm not that far outside the loop at all. This family memeber is a card carrying Bush hater too, goes on and on about how the Iraq war was a clusterfuck from the word go. We disagree on weather the invasion was a good idea but since this person sees the intercepts out of Iraq every day I'm forced to defer on many points. When I asked him what he thought the NID would change in the intel world the response is "Nothing". It's even a worse idea to slide this new position in under this President too. This administration has demonstrated that it can only fuck things up, I believe that they genuinely have no clue what they are doing. The new "National Intelligence Director" position will suffer from the same tom-foolery over the next four years and when the next guy gets in there it could well be beyond repair.
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  12. #12
    Atomic Punk MikeL's Avatar
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    Once again, you're just complaining. That's easy to do, and pretty pointless.

    People expect our intelligence agencies to be perfect, protecting us from things such as 9/11. That's just not possible all of the time. It sounds insensitive, but shit happens.

  13. #13
    Atomic Punk
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeL
    Once again, you're just complaining. That's easy to do, and pretty pointless.

    People expect our intelligence agencies to be perfect, protecting us from things such as 9/11. That's just not possible all of the time. It sounds insensitive, but shit happens.
    Congratulations, you now think like George W. Bush. Give that man a cigar.
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  14. #14
    Atomic Punk MikeL's Avatar
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    The world is not perfect. You should certainly know that by now.

  15. #15
    Atomic Punk
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    No.

    I talked with my relative last night. He actually was part of the commission that selected Negroponte in the first place. I'm told that he'll do everything he can to unclog that layer.

    My problem is that this stemmed from the 9/11 Commission, then whipped up into action by WTC families and rammed through the House and Senate before it got a good look-over.
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