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  1. #1
    Beloved Glenn's Avatar
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    Had Dave made ONE more record with VH, no way he leaves!!

    Dave leaving Van Halen by his own hand could only have happened in 1985!

    Prior to that, he wouldn't have had enough solid evidence to convince himself that he could survive on his own. One more record and tour with Van Halen gets him probably to 1987 or 1988, and at that point he surely would have talked himself out of any thoughts of leaving.

    When he decided to test the waters of solo-dom (with Crazy From the Heat), Dave used the foundation of what he and VH created visually with the 1984 singles to build on. Prior to 1984, that foundation didn't even exist. Pretty Woman might have been a step towards it, but on it's own wouldn't have been enough.

    Sure there are four great songs on CFTH, but they didn't make it the smash that it was. Videos, and MTV airing them, did.

    Post 1984 (the album)? Had he made just one more record with Van Halen, without doing the CFTH project? No matter how good it was, it's doubtful that the follow-up to 1984 would have done as well. On any level, be it sales or the success the attending videos would have achieved.

    So if Dave is sitting there in 1987 or 1988, just off the road from his seventh album supporting world tour with Van Halen, would he have still realistically believed that he could go out and survive and thrive as David Lee Roth, solo artist? At that point he has to see music trends shifting and also be aware that every moment is just that, a moment. Especially moments that are tied to the visual, not the musical. At that moment does he even bother to throw that ep together? I seriously doubt it!

    Maybe he sits there and wishes he'd tested the waters in 1985 and released that ep!? But even if he regrets not doing it, he realizes the moment is passed. Things aren't perfect, Eddie's just nuts with his drinking and 5150 studio ownership. But fuck it, he's the lead singer of Van Halen, the 1990's are on the horizon. Let's head to Tahiti and mix up some ideas for album number 8!!

    No???

  2. #2
    Eruption
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    04.28.16 @ 08:41 PM
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    You probably are right Glenn. I believe the success of the EP and the fact Eddie was gaining more and more control were the big factors in his going solo. I think had the EP been not as successful then he would of stayed though.

  3. #3
    Atomic Punk MikeL's Avatar
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    I think two things would have to happen for Dave to stick around for another album and beyond. First, he needs to find a creative outlet other than music. Second, his perception of Ed being unwilling to work needs to be changed.

    Something would have had to happen in late 1984 to keep Dave from jumping ship. He was on a creative streak, and if that energy had been focused elsewhere perhaps the distraction would have been enough to keep him from having that first taste of independence and creative control. Maybe a voice acting gig for a new Disney cartoon--it doesn't really matter, so long as it keeps him from recognizing that he could be successful without VH.

    Dave, according to his book, didn't think Ed was willing to work in the spring of 1985. That perception caused a lot of bad feelings and frustration, which combined with Dave's CFTH success gave him the chance to walk away. Dave thought the band was over. His description is that when he left, it wasn't quitting, but rather wanting to work on something--anything--while waiting for Ed to get his shit together. Hence the movie, and the band to make the soundtrack for the movie.

    I think if Dave perceived Ed to be just a little less hopeless, he would have stuck around. Not just for an album, but indefinitely. Eddie's inability to control his addictions was the root cause of the problems, as Dave saw them. If Ed had checked himself into Betty Ford in March of 1985, I think Dave would have found the patience required.

    It would have been interesting to hear how the band would of matured with DLR.

  4. #4
    PM Goo with your concerns OLO's Avatar
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    12.12.17 @ 10:08 PM
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    I think DLR would have been gone no matter what. Had DLR stayed with VH for one more album it would have been as big or bigger than 1984. I think this would have only fueled the fact that in DLR's mind he could leave and have just as much success on his own.

    Who knows what the future would have held for Ed if Dave was to have stayed put. I dont see DLR putting up with Ed's shit how Sammy does. I think DLR was getting very tired of Ed and his demons.
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  5. #5
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    12.23.16 @ 10:32 AM
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeL
    Dave, according to his book, didn't think Ed was willing to work in the spring of 1985. That perception caused a lot of bad feelings and frustration, which combined with Dave's CFTH success gave him the chance to walk away. Dave thought the band was over. His description is that when he left, it wasn't quitting, but rather wanting to work on something--anything--while waiting for Ed to get his shit together. Hence the movie, and the band to make the soundtrack for the movie.
    I thought that the music for most of the 5150 album was ready before Sam joined, if that's the case, how did Dave come to the conclusion that Ed didn't want to work in early 1985?
    5150 came out in early 1986 (March?) so they hired Sam and recorded in less than a year. That doesn't sound like a "bad work ethic" to me...

    I don't know because I'm not in Dave's head, but I really believe that he felt that he was bigger than the band and didn't need them anymore. The success of CFTH had to have pushed the monster ego over the edge. For what it's worth, Ed's said that Dave had that attitude for a long time, so this was probably inevitable (but in hindsight, Ed's interviews aren't exactly reliable at times...so who knows)

  6. #6
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    01.28.16 @ 03:05 AM
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    I dunno...

    I think it's hard to say. Look at it this way. John Lennon wanted to leave The Beatles in 1966. He stuck around for another 3-4 years.

    I think Dave wanted to leave since 1981. Fair Warning was a big turning point for VH. Ed and Dave both were getting more and more creative. But creative in different directions. I think it's fair to say FW was Ed's album (Moreso than Dave) and Diver Down was Dave's album (Moreso than Ed) and 1984 was a combination of each.

    In Dave's mind, with video's and the exposure that video's brought, Van Halen thrived because of Dave. Let's face it, in your ear Ed thrives, in you eyes Dave thrives. With this new medium (video's) Dave was able to cut loose. All the stuff that was going on in Dave's head he was now able to put on tv. It was beautiful. Dave could take Van Halen...or better yet, HIMSELF to a whole new level! I don't think Ed was/is ever comfortable with video's. He went along because he recognized it as necessary.

    1984 was an ending because it was as far as Ed and Dave could go. I think Dave gave himself most of the credit for 1984, for all 6 albums for that matter, and he was done with VH.

    The thing that sticks out the most is "left Van Halen with nothing but the shirt on my back".
    Dave left and gave Ed complete control and all rights to everything Van Halen. Dave wanted no part of it.

    I don't think Dave could have lasted one more album. He and Ed changed too much.
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  7. #7
    Baluchitherium Vinnie Velvet's Avatar
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    11.30.16 @ 02:56 PM
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    According to Dave, he was out there sitting outside 5150 with Ted Templeman waiting for Ed to pick up the phone to get going on writing/recording the new album.

    Now, for someone like Ed who basically drank EVERY day, I guess its understandable for Dave to be a bit impatient when Ed doesn't wake up from yesterday's hangover.

    But the musical direction Ed was wanting to record also made things difficult. Although Dave was most likely receptive towards working on "Summer Nights" and "Good Enough", the same could not be said for the music Ed had for "Dreams" and "Love Walks In".

    Dave said that the music turned "morose", too melancholy.

    So when Dave and the band eventually did get going on working on the new album, the chemistry turned rotten. Arguments ensued.

    To get things back on track, Dave suggested that the band record two new songs, put together a greatest hits package and play some summer shows in '85.

    The band didn't go for it, especially Al.

    Things just got to the boiling point before Dave himself said "hey, I had enough."
    I do agree it was easier for him to do this now that VH and himself were the biggest band in the land coming off the huge sucess of 1984. He would of never have decided to leave had this been 1982 or had he stayed, he would've never left in 1987 or '88. The timing was right for Dave, in the short term, maybe not in the long term.

    Ed's story has been that Dave went solo and that he wanted to be a movie star. I am more likely to believe Dave than Ed, especially what went down between Ed and Sam in 1996.
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  8. #8
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    12.23.16 @ 10:32 AM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Bundy
    Dave did mention "the melancholic power pop ballads" or something in his book...that was not what he wanted to do. I assume that "I'll wait" and "Love walks in" is and was not the way he wanted to go on.
    Then he goes on and does "Just Like Paradise", maybe his biggest solo hit?

  9. #9
    Pope Of Greenwich Village SuckaInA3Piece's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenpaw
    Then he goes on and does "Just Like Paradise", maybe his biggest solo hit?
    Thank you. And ironically, I'll Wait was one of Dave's best live songs with VH ever. I don't buy that stuff from Dave. I respect the guy, but when I listen to Skyscrapper I hear just a popish sound, if not more than I hear on OU812. I could see if DLR was churning out Unchaineds or On Fire's, but he wasn't. Instead it was Knucklebones, Just Like Paradise, and Stand Up. His best album IMO was ALAE. Great fuckin album that got back to basics.
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  10. #10
    Hang 'Em High Wray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenpaw
    Then he goes on and does "Just Like Paradise", maybe his biggest solo hit?
    I wouldn't classify 'Just Like Paradise' as neither melancholy nor as a ballad.

  11. #11
    Pope Of Greenwich Village SuckaInA3Piece's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wray
    I wouldn't classify 'Just Like Paradise' as neither melancholy nor as a ballad.
    Neither would I. It's just POP. Great live song though.
    "It's always a Catch-22 situation. They hate you if you're the same, and they hate you if you're different."
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  12. #12
    Atomic Punk MikeL's Avatar
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    I'm not sure how a person equates Just Like Paradise to sounding morose.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wray
    I wouldn't classify 'Just Like Paradise' as neither melancholy nor as a ballad.
    and...? (You know what I meant Wray, let's not play the semantics game every time )

    I wouldn't classify 'I'll Wait' as neither melancholy nor as a ballad, but Just Like Paradise is as, if not more of a cheesey pop, keyboard driven song. Like Sucka said, Skyscraper is the polished, keyboard filled album that Dave claimed he DIDN'T want.

    I don't mind the album, there's plenty of good stuff on it, "Damn Good", "Hot Dog and a Shake"(minus the lyrics) and "Hina" is a great fuckin song.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuckaInA3Piece
    His best album IMO was ALAE. Great fuckin album that got back to basics.

    Eat'em and smile is the album we all expected and got after Van Halen. Pure Dave, full tilt rock (could always live without the covers, but whatever, they worked on that record)

    IMO, ALAE is second though, solid all the way through.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeL
    I'm not sure how a person equates Just Like Paradise to sounding morose.
    Who did?

 

 

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