Follow us on...
Follow us on Twitter Follow us on Facebook Watch us on YouTube
Register
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 23
  1. #1
    Eruption
    Join Date
    12.11.01
    Location
    Milwaukee, WI
    Posts
    973
    Favorite VH Album

    Fair Warning
    Favorite VH Song

    Meanstreet
    Last Online

    05.18.12 @ 09:24 AM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    I know I'm jumping the gun here. But I'm pumped for this show tomorrow! [img]graemlins/bounce.gif[/img]

    I hope it's ok that I started this thread Brett.

  2. #2
    Hot For Teacher
    Join Date
    03.21.02
    Age
    45
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    279
    Favorite VH Album

    Fair Warning
    Favorite VH Song

    Fools
    Last Online

    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    BUMP [img]graemlins/bounce.gif[/img]

    So where are the reviews?

  3. #3
    Baluchitherium Lead Synth's Avatar
    Join Date
    01.26.00
    Age
    35
    Location
    Afar (well, Chicago)
    Posts
    4,353
    Favorite VH Album

    Balance
    Last Online

    02.22.16 @ 08:29 AM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 4 Times in 1 Post


    Donor

    Well, I'll get the ball rolling by saying that although I did NOT attend this concert, my friend who did, messaged me when he got back to say "You missed an AMAZING show!!!"

    Details to follow, I suppose! [img]smile.gif[/img]
    www.mayakuper.com

    "VH rocked Staples like a foot rocks grapes in Naples." - mistere

  4. #4
    Top Of The World
    Join Date
    01.09.02
    Location
    Stalag 13, Deutschland
    Posts
    209
    Favorite VH Album

    Fraulines und Kinder First
    Favorite VH Song

    Somebody Get Me A Panzer
    Last Online

    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Your trusty Sergeant begs to report that der concert was great.

    I went to the concert with no expectations either way. I'll admit that I've always been a Dave era fan but I went in with an open mind regarding BOTH Sam and Dave. I now have a much bigger appreciation of Hagar and I'll have to admit to really liking Hagar's show a lot.

    Sammy said there were 14,000 in attendance.

    My honest opinion of the show was that Sammy Hagar's set was more energetic, he interacted with teh crowd more and seemed more in tune with the audience. His timing was flawless and he truly seemed to get off on the audience. The songs were all done perfectly. He regaled the crowd with his experience at Alpine on the Monsters of Rock tour and that he fell and broke his tailbone but still performed the next two night. The funniest thing he said was after a bikini clad model served him a drink "Now go eat a hot dog or something" - she was VERY skinny.

    Dave's stage was simple and austere, black & white Marshalls lined up in back. Dave wore all black leather and the whole thing looked like this was ashow right out the 1978 tour. Dave actually sand all the words for the most part, hit the notes and presented the songs in a pwerful manner. Dave was Dave and it may have been the lack of spandex that resulted in more strutting and swaggering onstage and less ultra high kicking. He did two riser-jumps both time halting as he was about to go and asking the audience for more encouragement. He crossed himself and did the praying hands before the last one. He drank a little JD and during a song proceeded to "jerk off" most of the contents onto the fist few rows of people. Dave semmed a bit "removed" from the audience and to SLIGHTLY be going through the motions.

    Overall both guys did a great job - if you have a chence you really should go and see them.

    Both bands were great Sams being better I think. The Sam-era songs that I really don't like were great live. Dave's band was very good and the guitarists hit all the notes flwalessly. His plaing seemed a bit mechanical and a little "souless" but he was very, VERY good. The drummer was also great but it made me appreciate AVH.

    Fans cheered equally loud for both shows and the whole atmosphere was not at all Sam vs Dave but "Let's rock!"

    Schultz
    Musical equipment I own dat legitimizes mein post. Tuba, clarinet, und electric glockenspiel.<br />Der Lord liebt einen beschäftigten Mann. Nicht vertrauen whitey. Sehen ein Doktor und erhalten gereinigt es.<br /><br />"You're a towel!" - Towelie

  5. #5
    Eruption
    Join Date
    12.11.01
    Location
    Milwaukee, WI
    Posts
    973
    Favorite VH Album

    Fair Warning
    Favorite VH Song

    Meanstreet
    Last Online

    05.18.12 @ 09:24 AM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Wow. What a show. I don't have time for the review today and I'm totally spent. I'll just say that both Sam and Dave were awesome.

    Full review tomorrow. Sorry for the delay.

  6. #6
    Little Dreamer
    Join Date
    06.10.02
    Age
    45
    Location
    Illinois
    Posts
    3
    Favorite VH Album

    VH 1
    Favorite VH Song

    Unchained
    Last Online

    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    To start I wasn't even going to this show until 10 o’clock Friday night, and was pleasantly surprised by the gift that one of my friends gave me. I did mention to my best friend that I was going and where I was sitting (this is important). My buddy and I got there and were walking to our seats, up comes running my best friends wife, with a nice backstage pass slapped on here chest. She says you’re coming with me. Long story short, on the left side on stage first row on the end, The "Dork" with a blue shirt standing next to 2 hot blonds would have been me. ON STAGE WITH SAMMY, unreal. Being a musician and having been on stage before, this was totally different in front of all those people.

    Ok on to the review, here is what I saw. Sammy played from his heart his music and VH music, Vic the guitar player for Sammy, didn't try and be Eddie, he hit the important notes, and added his own flavor to each song. The band as a whole was very energetic, and crowd friendly, including the ones on stage, hehe.

    Dave, well to me looked like he was going through the motions, trying to be what he was. His voice not there, the music was a bit fast but very tight, the guitar player was excellent and as a post said early hit all the notes but missed the feel, this could be because they were playing a tad fast, but still there is only one EVH. The music mix was very guitar biased, he was screaming. All in all I was a bit disappointed with Dave, I honestly thought he'd tear it up but it just wasn't there. Dave would wonder on stage not really doing anything just kind of looking off into space. My friend who I went with, who is a big Dave fan, said the same thing. It was great to hear some of the oldies' though.

    All in all, its a great experience. If you go in thinking that Dave is going to be what he was you will be disappointed, but if you realize that he's older, lived a "healthy" lifestyle and we should cut him some slack, than you'll be happy with his performance. Sammy though, just kicked ass, looks great and did not show his age one bit.

  7. #7
    Eruption
    Join Date
    12.11.01
    Location
    Milwaukee, WI
    Posts
    973
    Favorite VH Album

    Fair Warning
    Favorite VH Song

    Meanstreet
    Last Online

    05.18.12 @ 09:24 AM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Ok, now that I've had a day to "recover" I can get to the review:

    First of all let me start with the pre-show festivities. We here in Wisconsin do what is called tailgating at events like this. We show up three hours early, set up the chairs and fire up the grill. We ate burgers and brats while we drank Miller beer and did a couple shots of JD. We were tailgating next to some Van Hagar fans, which worried me at first. Turned out to be nothing but a great time with them. They were very courteous and overall it was a great crowd of people. I only heard one Sam vs. Dave argument. Most people there that I talked to say they liked them both.

    On to the show:

    Sam opened the show, which surprised me a little. Dave closed the first show and if you did the math he was supposed to open this one. It made me a little more excited when the announcer said, "Please welcome Sammy Hagar and the Waboritas!" because I knew for sure Dave was closing then.

    Sammy came out in a Chicago Cubs #13 jersey with Hagar on the back. I wasn't too surprised by that from reading past reviews, but we are in Wisconsin here. If he wanted to pump up the crowd he should have worn a Packer jersey. No matter. Sam and his band sounded great. His voice is just as good as ever. He hasn't lost a thing. He hit every note in every song that I could detect and he looked like he was really enjoying himself. He took time to talk to the crowd, he wore banners that were passed up to him (none of which had any brother bashing on them) and generally looked like he was having a blast. My only complaint about his show isn't that he played Eagles. It's where he played it. He started the show off with three rocking songs (I don't remember what they were, but they were good songs) and then he played Eagles. It destroyed the momentum he had built up. The woman in the crowd seemed to like the song very much, so don't expect Sam to yank that song from his set. I just wish he had slowed it down later. He intro’ed Finish What You Started just like at all of the other shows telling the story of Eddie showing up at 2:00 AM. He put on a pair of shorts that were tossed up there on about midway through and he must have yelled "Waitress!" about three times. He did seem to be trying to out-Dave Dave by saying things like "I don't drink before the show because I like to get drunk during the show!" etc... He also had a lot of video played on the screen behind him of naked woman (sort of like a girls gone wild video). I didn't mind looking at naked woman though

    Michael Anthony did not make an appearance at this show. That kinda bummed me out. I was hoping to see 3/5 of VH that night (Sammy + MA = 2/5. Dave = 1/5) I bet MA only comes out at shows Sam closes.

    Anyway, after seeing the show I became a little bit more of a Sammy fan. It was a lot of fun and he's got some great material. Where the hell are the brothers?

    Now to the main event

    Dave took the stage and opened with Hot For Teacher. The crowd immediately all stood up. There were a lot of people sitting through Sam's show, but no one was sitting for Dave. He came out wearing a black leather outfit and he looked very good. Dave didn't interact with the crowd very much which would have surprised me if I hadn't read the other reviews, which said as much. He also didn't do very many jumps or kicks. He did do two very impressive jumps off the drum riser. The second of which was near the end of the show and he teased the fans by going up on the drum riser, stepping back down to hear the crowd beg for him to do it, and then going back up and making the jump. I can't believe the man can still do the splits like that in the air, fist aimed straight down. It was a thing of beauty.

    Dave's set only slowed down for Ice Cream Man and we as fans needed to slow down at that point. Dave's vocals sounded great. I was a little worried because this was supposed to be the third show in a row for him that his voice wouldn't be there; but my worries were for nothing. If anything his voice was already warmed up because of that. He sounded great and even had some of the old power in his voice. He didn't try to do too many screams. The ones he did do were short and sounded fine. No power in the screams anymore I'm afraid.

    I was excited to hear Brian Young as he's had nothing but good things said about him. Man was I impressed. That dude can play. I closed my eyes a couple of times and pretended it was Eddie up there and I couldn't tell the difference. This guy makes Bart Walsh look like hack. He changed up Eruption enough that satisfied me anyway. It didn't sound like it, but you knew it was the intro to Pretty Woman. Does that make sense? I don't have enough kind things to say about this guy. He REALLY rocked.

    Dave did the bottle of JD jerk off, but it was done way different than last time I saw him. It was done more mellow. The band didn't start cranking Meanstreet when he did it this time. Maybe he's read things about that and decided to change it up? I liked it better the old way myself.

    After the show was over, I was talking to anyone that would listen asking them who they thought "won". I'd say that 8 out of 10 people thought Dave won hands down. No hesitation when asked. In fact, the Van Hagar fans that partied with us before the show admitted Dave was better. The clincher being Brian Young. The guy was truly amazing. I feel if Dave took a song out of his setlist and talked to the crowd more that it would have been that much better.

    Well, that's my review. If you can make it to the show you won't be disappointed with either of them in my book. Dave won in my eyes before Sam even took the stage. But you know, it was a little closer than I thought it would be. If Sam had an Eddie clone as Dave does it would have helped his cause. But Dave's set list is just packed with hit after hit after hit.

    Sammy didn't have a chance.

  8. #8
    Top Of The World
    Join Date
    01.09.02
    Location
    Stalag 13, Deutschland
    Posts
    209
    Favorite VH Album

    Fraulines und Kinder First
    Favorite VH Song

    Somebody Get Me A Panzer
    Last Online

    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    It's interesting to see the views of fans that went to the same show. I went to the show with a van full of Classic Dave era ONLY fans. None of us were at all into Van Hagar.

    After the concert as we sat in line waiting to get out of the parking lot every one of us said that Hagar put on a better show. Now that is NOT to say that Dave diddn't kick butt, becasue he did. Dave was awesome! I detected no difference in crowd reaction at all. Like I said in my earlier post the attitude in general was "Fuck it! Party and rock n roll!"

    Hagar also said the following onstage after a few songs - "You know when we started this tour I didn't know what to expect and David didn't know what to expect but I gotta tell you it's been fucking awesome" or words to that effect.

    My own opinion is that Hagar's band was better but it could be due to the fact that they've been playing together longer. Roth's guitarist was great and I've known lots of guys over many years who can hit all the right Van Halen notes on a guitar, but the feel isn't there, it's just mechanics. Again though - he was an incredible musician and did a great job.

    $45 for a t-shirt? Nein!
    Musical equipment I own dat legitimizes mein post. Tuba, clarinet, und electric glockenspiel.<br />Der Lord liebt einen beschäftigten Mann. Nicht vertrauen whitey. Sehen ein Doktor und erhalten gereinigt es.<br /><br />"You're a towel!" - Towelie

  9. #9
    Little Dreamer
    Join Date
    06.10.02
    Age
    45
    Location
    Illinois
    Posts
    3
    Favorite VH Album

    VH 1
    Favorite VH Song

    Unchained
    Last Online

    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    I agree, it was a great party!! As the post that Dave kick Sammy's ass, I just didn't see. Dave is one of the best frontman ever, Dave 1981 to Sammy in 87, 91, there is no comparison. Beside sides drenching some blond in the front row with Jack, and telling some guy his girlfriend is back stage, he was not interactive at all with the crowd, he was like a machine programed. Like someone said it was like a Van Halen cover band, well actually a Van Halen cover band singer would be able to hit the high notes. Is this a knock on Dave no, he just can't sing like that anymore. Why Sammy can at his age and Dave can't, who knows. But like I said hearing those classic VH songs again was very cool.

  10. #10
    Eruption
    Join Date
    12.11.01
    Location
    Milwaukee, WI
    Posts
    973
    Favorite VH Album

    Fair Warning
    Favorite VH Song

    Meanstreet
    Last Online

    05.18.12 @ 09:24 AM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Originally posted by brandondad:
    As the post that Dave kick Sammy's ass, I just didn't see.
    I don't think Dave kicked Sammy's ass at all. I just felt his show was a little better due to the set list and Brian Young.

    Sammy put on a great, great show.

    Something else I want to add. $6.00 per beer and $32.00 for the cheapest T-shirt is disgusting.

    [ June 10, 2002, 09:50 AM: Message edited by: dj88 ]

  11. #11
    Romeo Delight
    Join Date
    02.16.00
    Posts
    84
    Last Online

    11.07.06 @ 09:07 PM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    I have to say that they both rocked the Valley and this is a cool place to see a show maybe one of the best venues in the country but 6.50 for a beer is riddiculous!! Now on to the show, I love Van Halen in all eras and this show was just Downright FUN!! I viewed it not as a contest but to a tribute to some fun music and good times. Both performers still know how to rock and both shows could have been better in small ways. Anyhow, I think the brothers are missing out and the fans are getting what they want from this show..
    Good Music, fun, and being taken back to some great classic rock!! Thanks Dave and Sammy for giving the fans what they want.. N'Halen
    You can try me at home if it feels alright, hear about it later

  12. #12
    Little Dreamer
    Join Date
    06.10.02
    Age
    48
    Location
    eau claire, wi
    Posts
    6
    Favorite VH Album

    OU812
    Favorite VH Song

    Unchained
    Last Online

    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Went to show at Alpine...first of all I preface my review by saying I love Roth era VH an I love Van Hagar also. Probably my favorite VH album is OU812, my favorite song is probably "Unchained."

    If I had to pick one era or the other that I PREFER...I guess I would have to say Roth.

    I've seen Roth on solo tour with Vai and Sheean (sp?) off "Eat 'em.." Roth on "Skyscraper" tour and then Roth last summer at our Rockfest here in Cadott, Wis. where he played for 20,000 plus people as a closer on a Friday night.

    I've seen Hagar with VH on 5150, OU812-Monsters of Rock Tour, F.U.C.K. Tour and their "Live" tour.

    I've seen Sammy solo twice at our Rockfest in Cadott, Wi.

    I bring this up so you know my credentials in reviewing the Alpine show.

    Because I work for Clear Channel I got 8th row left seats so I had a great view of the show.

    Sammy gave 110% as he always does. Mona (his bass player) used to be this headbanging Harley riding "Bad Ass" Bass player. At Alpine, she had some makeup on..was smiling all cute and waving to the crowd...she still rocked on bass bass but I don't want to see a "lady" playing in The Waboritas!!!"...I want a heavy metal Head Banging Chick...come on Mona...Bring back your "mean streak!!"

    Like I said Sammy gave 110%...he worked the crowd, I didn't feel he talked to much as had been discussed here before. His voice, as always ,is incredible!!

    His drummer, on the other hand was extremely mediocre...now, he wasn't bad...he got the job done...but, I do expect a higher caliber drummer to be filling Alex's shoes on the VH stuff and that guy was barely getting by.

    Sammy, looked a little "puffy" he is getting older so that's to be expected...but, even just a few years ago he was in better shape.

    Yes, "Give 2 Live" and "eagles Fly" drag a bit...but, I didn't see too many people that cared. Heck, you used to go to Journey, Def Leppard shows and they do three of four of their ballads...Sammy did two...not a big deal.

    He opened with "Red" and I thought it could have been a little faster and thrashing, especially for an opener...it kind of "plodded" instaed of "stomped." I'm glad he didn't close with the piano/vocal "Right Now" that I had read about, in fact he didn't do the song at all!!

    Like, I said earlier ( I know I'm rambling) I saw DLR just last summer...he had a different band and he was just starting to get out and do his "Van Halen" material show. Last year he was far from impressive. I enjoyed hearing all of the old VH stuff but it was clear Dave was rusty....with that said I was not expecting anything more at Alpine Valley than hearing all my VH favorites.

    I was pleasantly surprised. Dave was in much better form...no he still can't do all the "inhaled screams" and the "hiccups" and screams but he does the kicks and the jumps and for his age ( or even for someone 15-20 years younger) looks in fantastic shape.

    Yes, it was like going back to 1982 all over again. "No" he doesn't interact with the crowd, he rocks steady from song to song. Dave is NOT a charming, warm, friendly performer...He is DIamond Dave. He is a performer...he puts on his Hollywood smile and he struts and he is what he is. No, he is not going to "connect with the crowd"..he's in the spotlight...he's going to soak it up, put on his biggest smile and he rocks...that's Dave. His voice held up, everyone talks about his voice...Dave never had "a voice."
    Sammy is a singers singer...Dave has never been accused of being a singer...he is a performer.

    An earlier review of a show hit it right on the head "Sammy owned the stage...Dave owned the crowd."

    If you came to hear Dave to "Jump" and "Panama"...he did 'em..but he also did plenty of Album cuts that maybe only "true VH fans" can appreciate like "Atomic Punk", "I'm the One" and others.

    Dave's band can and did play circles around the Waboritas....sorry, anyone who says anything differently doesn't know their musicianship. Sorry again but it's the truth.

    The Waboritas are a great Party Band...but, Dave had a tight Metal Rock band with Double bass drums and long hair straight out of the 80's!

    Now,with all that said: The opener has a tougher job...the sun is still out...seats are still empty...people are still sober (or soberer) and the closer comes out with the lights and the anticipation and the crowd in full force. So, whoever the opener is...has a tougher job.

    I would like to see a show with DLR opening so I could get a "fairer" perspective on the two.

    Yes, I enjoyed the show immensely...for a true DLR/Van Halen and Van Hagar fan it was the best thing...outside of the brothers not being there.

    Here's a question...what are the brothers going to do???...the only thing I see is for them to go out on tour just like this...with Sammy & Dave! Otherwise they're going to be stuck doing instrumentation for movie soundtracks...swallow your pride bro's...the fans want U!!...kiss and make-up and give us our Van Halen/DLR/ Sammy Double Bill. It's what WE want (the fans) and you guys are out of options!

    Sorry for the rambling!
    Alex Edwards

  13. #13
    Top Of The World
    Join Date
    01.09.02
    Location
    Stalag 13, Deutschland
    Posts
    209
    Favorite VH Album

    Fraulines und Kinder First
    Favorite VH Song

    Somebody Get Me A Panzer
    Last Online

    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Alex Edwards wrote "Dave's band can and did play circles around the Waboritas....sorry, anyone who says anything differently doesn't know their musicianship. Sorry again but it's the truth."
    I repsectfully disagree. Opinion doesnt equal truth. I mean we are not talking light years apart here - they were both excellent bands. I've been a musician my whole life and my opinion is that Dave's band played all the right notes but they were more mechanical sounding than Hagar's band. If you heard someone play every note of "Eruption" correctly is he a better musican than Edward playing "Eruption" and screwing up several notes - like he usually did? And the drumming in DLR's band was probably the furthest from original VH. Lots of guys in the 80s and 90s that could play lick after lick but never had the fel. Hagar's guitarist in my opinion had better feel and timing. Not a personal slam on those who disagree and Im not claiming you dont know your musicianship.
    Musical equipment I own dat legitimizes mein post. Tuba, clarinet, und electric glockenspiel.<br />Der Lord liebt einen beschäftigten Mann. Nicht vertrauen whitey. Sehen ein Doktor und erhalten gereinigt es.<br /><br />"You're a towel!" - Towelie

  14. #14
    Little Dreamer
    Join Date
    06.10.02
    Age
    48
    Location
    eau claire, wi
    Posts
    6
    Favorite VH Album

    OU812
    Favorite VH Song

    Unchained
    Last Online

    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Point taken!!

    And you're right Sammy has a party band...sometimes you miss a note or beat or lyric but you sound good and you have fun!!

    Dave's band had precision, you're right, almost to the point of sounding "sterile." There wasn't any mood just "Balls 2 the Wall" flat out rock!

    Whereas Sammy's band could do "Give 2 Live" and "Eagles Fly."

    What's your opinion on the future of "the brothers"

    By the way...another point to Sammy...someone earlier had said that there were no banners bashing "the brothers"...yes, there was...I was close and I had binoculars and Sammy picked it up and read it...I didn't see what it said "word 4 word" but it did say something about "the brothers" on it...and Sammy, because he knows when to be classy, didn't hold it up for the crowd. Good move Sammy!! [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img]

    Was is just me, when Sammy finished his encore...I could've swore the crowd started chanting "Eddie...Eddie..."

    Now, some joined in with "Sammy...Sammy.." but, I could've swore it started out as "Eddie.."

    Big bummer about no Roth/Hagar Tour merchandise... they're missing the $$$$$ on that!

    I'm not going to pay $27 for a baseball cap (yes...I said $27 for a cap) but I probably would've bought a Sammy & Dave Tour shirt.
    Alex Edwards

  15. #15
    Top Of The World
    Join Date
    01.09.02
    Location
    Stalag 13, Deutschland
    Posts
    209
    Favorite VH Album

    Fraulines und Kinder First
    Favorite VH Song

    Somebody Get Me A Panzer
    Last Online

    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Yeah we're arguing over inches here. DLR's band kicked ass - no argument there.

    $32 - $45 for a t-shirt? Or buy 5 or 6 beers. Hmmm..that's a tough one.
    Musical equipment I own dat legitimizes mein post. Tuba, clarinet, und electric glockenspiel.<br />Der Lord liebt einen beschäftigten Mann. Nicht vertrauen whitey. Sehen ein Doktor und erhalten gereinigt es.<br /><br />"You're a towel!" - Towelie

 

 

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 37
    Last Post: 08.27.02, 08:34 PM
  2. Replies: 13
    Last Post: 08.27.02, 12:34 PM
  3. Replies: 50
    Last Post: 06.11.02, 06:37 AM
  4. Replies: 42
    Last Post: 06.08.02, 10:33 AM
  5. Replies: 25
    Last Post: 06.04.02, 11:42 AM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •