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  1. #1
    Eruption
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    02.27.09 @ 02:39 AM
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    I found this on another message board I frequent, thought it would give some perspective on going to war with Afghanistan.

    Apologies if someone has already posted this...


    An Afghan-American speaks-
    You can't bomb us back into the Stone Age. We're already there. But you can start a new world war, and that's exactly what Osama bin Laden wants.

    - - - - - - - - - - - -
    By Tamim Ansary

    Sept. 14, 2001 | I've been hearing a lot of talk about "bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone Age." Ronn Owens, on San Francisco's KGO Talk Radio, conceded today that this would mean killing innocent people, people who had nothing to do with this atrocity, but "we're at war, we have to accept collateral damage. What else can we do?" Minutes later I heard some TV pundit discussing whether we "have the belly to do what must be done."

    And I thought about the issues being raised especially hard because I am from Afghanistan, and even though I've lived in the United States for 35 years I've never lost track of what's going on there. So I want to tell anyone who will listen how it all looks from where I'm standing.



    I speak as one who hates the Taliban and Osama bin Laden. There is no doubt in my mind that these people were responsible for the atrocity in New York. I agree that something must be done about those monsters.

    But the Taliban and bin Laden are not Afghanistan. They're not even the government of Afghanistan. The Taliban are a cult of ignorant psychotics who took over Afghanistan in 1997. Bin Laden is a political criminal with a plan. When you think Taliban, think Nazis. When you think bin Laden, think Hitler. And when you think "the people of Afghanistan" think "the Jews in the concentration camps." It's not only that the Afghan people had nothing to do with this atrocity. They were the first victims of the perpetrators. They would exult if someone would come in there, take out the Taliban and clear out the rats' nest of international thugs holed up in their country.

    Some say, why don't the Afghans rise up and overthrow the Taliban? The answer is, they're starved, exhausted, hurt, incapacitated, suffering. A few years ago, the United Nations estimated that there are 500,000 disabled orphans in Afghanistan -- a country with no economy, no food. There are millions of widows. And the Taliban has been burying these widows alive in mass graves. The soil is littered with land mines, the farms were all destroyed by the Soviets. These are a few of the reasons why the Afghan people have not overthrown the Taliban.

    We come now to the question of bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone Age. Trouble is, that's been done. The Soviets took care of it already. Make the Afghans suffer? They're already suffering. Level their houses? Done. Turn their schools into piles of rubble? Done. Eradicate their hospitals? Done. Destroy their infrastructure? Cut them off from medicine and healthcare? Too late. Someone already did all that. New bombs would only stir the rubble of earlier bombs. Would they at least get the Taliban? Not likely. In today's Afghanistan, only the Taliban eat, only they have the means to move around. They'd slip away and hide. Maybe the bombs would get some of those disabled orphans; they don't move too fast, they don't even have wheelchairs. But flying over Kabul and dropping bombs wouldn't really be a strike against the criminals who did this horrific thing. Actually it would only be making common cause with the Taliban -- by raping once again the people they've been raping all this time.

    So what else is there? What can be done, then? Let me now speak with true fear and trembling. The only way to get Bin Laden is to go in there with ground troops. When people speak of "having the belly to do what needs to be done" they're thinking in terms of having the belly to kill as many as needed. Having the belly to overcome any moral qualms about killing innocent people. Let's pull our heads out of the sand. What's actually on the table is Americans dying. And not just because some Americans would die fighting their way through Afghanistan to Bin Laden's hideout. It's much bigger than that, folks. Because to get any troops to Afghanistan, we'd have to go through Pakistan. Would they let us? Not likely. The conquest of Pakistan would have to be first. Will other Muslim nations just stand by? You see where I'm going. We're flirting with a world war between Islam and the West.

    And guess what: That's bin Laden's program. That's exactly what he wants. That's why he did this. Read his speeches and statements. It's all right there. He really believes Islam would beat the West. It might seem ridiculous, but he figures if he can polarize the world into Islam and the West, he's got a billion soldiers. If the West wreaks a holocaust in those lands, that's a billion people with nothing left to lose; that's even better from Bin Laden's point of view. He's probably wrong -- in the end the West would win, whatever that would mean -- but the war would last for years and millions would die, not just theirs but ours.

    Who has the belly for that? Bin Laden does. Anyone else?

    About the writer-
    Tamim Ansary is a writer in San Francisco, and the son of a former Afghani politician.

    -----
    It'll all end in beers...

  2. #2
    Hang 'Em High Stuff No More's Avatar
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    01.08.05 @ 11:08 AM
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    bin Laden is one sick, perverted, motherfucker.
    "Just once I'd like to do the right thing and not get punished for it."

  3. #3
    On Fire lawchick's Avatar
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    01.24.08 @ 09:30 AM
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    TDR, thanks for reprinting that essay. I pray that some way, somehow, bin Laden and his "rats" can be flushed out and brought to justice (or killed), leaving ravaged Afghanistan to begin to heal. I would then support assistance to the Afghani people who have endured endless suffering under the Taliban.

  4. #4
    Eruption
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    02.27.09 @ 02:39 AM
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    Yeah, some of the stuff I've heard about the Taliban's policies just beggars belief!
    It'll all end in beers...

  5. #5
    Good Enough ScottRoberts's Avatar
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    04.05.12 @ 09:06 AM
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    Donor

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lawchick:
    TDR, thanks for reprinting that essay. I pray that some way, somehow, bin Laden and his "rats" can be flushed out and brought to justice (or killed), leaving ravaged Afghanistan to begin to heal. I would then support assistance to the Afghani people who have endured endless suffering under the Taliban.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Well, you know thw U.S.; always giving aide to countries they've just bombed to death. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]
    Scott Roberts
    The Official Scott Roberts Blog - http://www.scottrobertsweb.com
    FORMER owner of The VH Trade Site - http://www.vhtrading.com

  6. #6
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    08.17.07 @ 05:09 PM
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    Thanks TDR. It's valuable to hear the opinion of someone who knows both of our worlds.
    "May you die at age 128, in bed, shot to death by a jealous lover" DLR 2002

  7. #7
    Eruption
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    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
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    I read that elsewhere today. I've also heard that theory that Osama is willing to accept a "short-term problem" (meaning US military retaliation) if it does in fact turn Muslims throughout the world against the US; that this is his ultimate goal!

    The writer is corrcet in saying that the only way to get him is ground-pounders. Bombs alone won't cut it.

    President Bush has stated that Americans will have to make some sacrifices (for some, the ultimate sacrifice); in a way, I think he's preparing the country to get over a mind-set that we don't repeat some mistakes from Vietnam, in terms of, "don't send our boys in harm's way anymore". Unlike Vietnam, the agenda here is clear-cut; there's a definite goal.

    The nation has to accept that unfortunately there will be American casualties in the pursuit of Osama [img]smilies/cry.gif[/img]
    LIGHT 'EM UP!! <br />Smoke 'em if you got 'em!<br /><br /><a href="http://vhstrungout.com" target="_blank">StrungOut</a> Administrator<br /><a href="http://ClassicVanHalen.com" target="_blank">ClassicVH</a> / <a href="http://diamonddavidleeroth.com" target="_blank">Diamond Dave</a> Moderator

  8. #8
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    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
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    In the words of W. "They are either with us or they are with the terrorists." Pakistan is working with us. You mean to say all of the Islam nations would be a match against America and Britain? Nevermind NATO? I highly doubt that. I think they are going to get annihilated to a point where terrorists will either surrender or Arab countries that start becoming close to being the new Atlantis and turn them in.

    Again, this was an attack on our soil on innocent civilians. May those who not cooperate pay a worse price than Hiroshima and Nagasaki . . .and by the way . . .there is a HUGE grumbling in my stomach . . . .

  9. #9
    XTC man! homeunit's Avatar
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    09.05.15 @ 12:20 PM
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    I think the important thing that the Americans need to keep in mind is they are fighting the war in somebody's home country, which kinda gives the Taliban home field advantage. The U.S. has the technology and that means to be able to decisively win this war so long as they don't become complacent or too cocky. The culmination of ground troops and air strikes should definitely level playing field.
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  10. #10
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    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
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    The US had the ability to win decisively in Vietnam. Unfortunately, Vietnam wasn't lost on the battlefields of Vietnam; that war was lost on the streets and televisions of America. Vietnamese leaders even admitted that the way to beat America was through the propaganda campaign IN America, and they were right.

    During that time, the onslaught of protesters eventually took over and neutered the government's ability to win the war. The warm reception our soldiers received when they came home attests to that.

    This time, Dubya is doing his best to make sure that we all know what is at stake, and that we have to be behind our soldiers in order to ensure success. Another Vietnam is something we cannot afford. Sadly, that means we WILL suffer casualties, but that is inevitable. In Vietnam, only the soldiers there were at risk. Now, our own civilians have already been killed. Maybe in Vietnam we were fighting for just an idealistic cause; now we are fighting for our OWN safety. That is what I think will make the difference-we are ALL at risk, so our boys will be fighting for US and not some third world country thousands of miles away.
    Don't bark at me...<b>I</b> didn't name ya.

 

 

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