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  1. #1
    PM Goo with your concerns OLO's Avatar
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    12.12.17 @ 12:17 AM
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    With the events of the last few days I have spent less time looking at porn on the net and more looking into Afghanistan. I have found some very interesting facts about this small country and its leaders. After I read all of this I came to the conclusion that this country is in zero condition to fight with us. If they think what we did to Iraq was bad they havent seen anything, Iraq was atleast somewhat organized!!

    Here are just a few facts.

    Area:
    total: 652,000 sq km
    Area - comparative: slightly smaller than Texas

    Coastline: 0 km (landlocked)

    Terrain: mostly rugged mountains; plains in north and southwest

    Natural hazards: damaging earthquakes occur in Hindu Kush mountains; flooding

    Environment - current issues: soil degradation; overgrazing; deforestation (much of the remaining forests are being cut down for fuel and building materials); desertification

    Population: 25,838,797 (July 2000 est.)

    Life expectancy at birth:
    total population: 45.88 years
    male: 46.62 years
    female: 45.1 years (2000 est.)

    Religions: Sunni Muslim 84%, Shi'a Muslim 15%, other 1%

    Literacy:
    definition: age 15 and over can read and write
    total population: 31.5%
    male: 47.2%
    female: 15% (1999 est.)

    Government type: no functioning central government, administered by factions

    Legal system: a new legal system has not been adopted but all factions tacitly agree they will follow Shari'a (Islamic law)

    Executive branch: on 27 September 1996, the ruling members of the Afghan Government were displaced by members of the Islamic Taliban movement; the Islamic State of Afghanistan has no functioning government at this time, and the country remains divided among fighting factions
    note: the Taliban have declared themselves the legitimate government of Afghanistan; however, the UN still recognizes the government of Burhanuddin RABBANI; the Organization of the Islamic Conference has left the Afghan seat vacant until the question of legitimacy can be resolved through negotiations among the warring factions; the country is essentially divided along ethnic lines; the Taliban controls the capital of Kabul and approximately two-thirds of the country including the predominately ethnic Pashtun areas in southern Afghanistan; opposing factions have their stronghold in the ethnically diverse north

    Economy - overview: Afghanistan is an extremely poor, landlocked country, highly dependent on farming and livestock raising (sheep and goats). Economic considerations have played second fiddle to political and military upheavals during two decades of war, including the nearly 10-year Soviet military occupation (which ended 15 February 1989). During that conflict one-third of the population fled the country, with Pakistan and Iran sheltering a combined peak of more than 6 million refugees. In early 1999, 1.2 million Afghan refugees remained in Pakistan and about 1.4 million in Iran. Gross domestic product has fallen substantially over the past 20 years because of the loss of labor and capital and the disruption of trade and transport. The majority of the population continues to suffer from insufficient food, clothing, housing, and medical care. Inflation remains a serious problem throughout the country. International aid can deal with only a fraction of the humanitarian problem, let alone promote economic development. The economic situation did not improve in 1998-99, as internal civil strife continued, hampering both domestic economic policies and international aid efforts. Numerical data are likely to be either unavailable or unreliable. Afghanistan was by far the largest producer of opium poppies in 1999, and narcotics trafficking is a major source of revenue.

    Military branches: NA; note - the military does not exist on a national basis; some elements of the former Army, Air and Air Defense Forces, National Guard, Border Guard Forces, National Police Force (Sarandoi), and tribal militias still exist but are factionalized among the various groups

    Afghanistan was invaded and occupied by the Soviet Union in 1979. The USSR was forced to withdraw 10 years later by anti-communist mujahidin forces supplied and trained by the US, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and others. Fighting subsequently continued among the various mujahidin factions, but the fundamentalist Islamic Taliban movement has been able to seize most of the country. In addition to the continuing civil strife, the country suffers from enormous poverty, a crumbling infrastructure, and widespread live mines.
    ((Just My Two Cents))
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  2. #2
    Sinner's Swing!
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    10.09.12 @ 02:50 PM
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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by OLO:
    After I read all of this I came to the conclusion that this country is in zero condition to fight with us.

    Coastline: 0 km (landlocked)

    Terrain: mostly rugged mountains; plains in north and southwest


    Life expectancy at birth:
    total population: 45.88 years
    male: 46.62 years
    female: 45.1 years (2000 est.)

    Religions: Sunni Muslim 84%, Shi'a Muslim 15%, other 1%

    Economic considerations have played second fiddle to political and military upheavals during two decades of war, including the nearly 10-year Soviet military occupation (which ended 15 February 1989).


    Afghanistan was invaded and occupied by the Soviet Union in 1979. The USSR was forced to withdraw 10 years later by anti-communist mujahidin forces supplied and trained by the US, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and others.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Yeah, but how on earth do you fight a country like this? The people are poor and oppressed, they've suffered years and years of war with the Soviet Union. It's hard to believe military action would make them any more miserable than they are already - they would just end up hating America (and allies, whoever they turn out to be).

    And consider this - the Soviets (allegedly) dropped more tonnage of bombs there during the war than were used in the whole of WW2. They had a border with Afghanistan and huge numbers of ground forces and they still essentially lost.

    If you bomb the place, the people you want to kill are going to be hiding out in bunkers (built by the US) and mountain caves, and remain untouched. They're probably in them already.

    How do you launch any kind of ground assault? Afghanistan doesn't have a coast line - that means you either have to airdrop (highly unlikely) or go through one of the bordering countries. Those being Pakistan, Iran and some ex-Soviet republics. Russia has said no, I think we all know what Iran would say about hosting US troops, and it's highly unlikely Pakistan is going to allow the US to launch a prolonged ground war against a neighbour and fellow muslim country.

    You can't nuke the place (or any place) - it's essentially a wasteland already, and the consequences of nuking a muslim country (or any country) far outweigh the instant gratification IMO.
    Delusions of eloquence

  3. #3
    Good Enough Wolfie3's Avatar
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    11.28.17 @ 09:02 PM
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    And get this amazing fact: We, the United States, give Afghanistan ONE-HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR IN FOREIGN AID!! [img]smilies/scared.gif[/img] Uh, you think it's safe to assume that THAT policy will now be scrapped?
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  4. #4
    Eruption
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    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
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    I wouldn't say nuking is all that bad. It put an end to WWII. As far as Russia not being able to penetrate their defenses, it doesn't surprise me. Russia was never the military monster the western world built it up to be. That's called propoganda. I never worried about Russia ever being a threat. America and it's allies will be succesful in our endeavors but it will take time. A long time. We must be patient.
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  5. #5
    Romeo Delight
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    11.04.13 @ 09:31 PM
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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by diggyd:
    America and it's allies will be succesful in our endeavors but it will take time. A long time. We must be patient.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    that is a fact...

  6. #6
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    10.09.12 @ 02:50 PM
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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by diggyd:
    I wouldn't say nuking is all that bad. It put an end to WWII.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    This is an entirely different situation. Japan was (and still is) a series of isolated islands. They were isolated at that point (Germany had surrendered), no other nations had nuclear capability. This isn't even going to be a war against Afghanistan - they just happen to be "harboring" the prime suspect. And you know why he is a guest there right?


    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>

    As far as Russia not being able to penetrate their defenses, it doesn't surprise me. Russia was never the military monster the western world built it up to be. That's called propoganda.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    That's called irony. You think the US formed NATO and had hundreds of thousands of troops stationed in Germany for decades for tourism?

    The soviet union unleashed unthinkably massive assaults on Afghanistan. They were right there, they didn't even have to come half way round the world - and they still lost.

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>
    I never worried about Russia ever being a threat.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I'm happy for you. Pretty much the only thing that saved us was MAD...and I don't mean the comic.

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>
    America and it's allies will be succesful in our endeavors but it will take time. A long time. We must be patient.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    This I agree with. Consider this about the enemy:

    1. Huge amounts of planning went into the horrific events of this week. You think maybe they might just have considered what would happen next? They've had a lot longer to plan for the future than we have.

    2. They know the size of the US arsenal

    3. They've seen it in action (Gulf War). Not only was this not a deterrent but most likely a motivation.

    4. Iraq was a much easier war to fight than any action in Afghanistan. It's flat, the enemy was easy to find, there were allied countries to the north and south from which to launch attacks. Not to mention lots of water close by. Yet that enemy is still there.

    5. Death doesn't even to be much of a deterrent for the operatives. I doubt whether they care much about "innocent" civilians getting massacred wherever they may be.

    I'm certainly not saying nothing should be done. I'm just saying that it's likely to be long and painful, and will almost certainly get worse (for us) before it gets better. The enemy (whoever they may be) knows that.
    Delusions of eloquence

  7. #7
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    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
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    For years Pakistan aided the Taliban in becoming a power in Afghanistan but yesterday Pakistan agreed to allow the U.S. to use their resources (military bases, land, air) in a war against Afghanistan. This was a big decision for the Pakistan government because the people of Pakistan despise americans and were rioting in the streets when the government allowed U.S. planes to use their military bases. The reason Pakistan has miraculously "seen the light" is because of President Bush's statement about anyone who harbors the terrorists will suffer the same fate as the terrorists themselves.

    People are saying that you cant really stop terrorism by destroying Bin Laden and his thugs but thats exactly how you stop it; or slow it down tremendously. Bin Laden and his followers have so many associates,contacts,power and "know how" that if you destroy them it would be like forcing them to start all over again. Like they guy who posted earlier was talking about, Bin Laden was trained by the U.S. and had a lot to do with the whole Soviet Union situation.

  8. #8
    Eruption
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    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
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    "That's called irony. You think the US formed NATO and had hundreds of thousands of troops stationed in Germany for decades for tourism?" -originally posted by Jonathan

    No, troops were stationed there to keep Germany in control because they had been involved in two world wars and had been so powerful. Also, Germany is a great stopping point where the east and west begin in Europe. I have relatives and know people in the military over there and this sentiment is echoed by them. Also, having Russia as your neighbor did influence that decision as well.

    "The soviet union unleashed unthinkably massive assaults on Afghanistan. They were right there, they didn't even have to come half way round the world - and they still lost." -posted by Jonathan

    My point exactly. If Russia had any military might and coordinated leadership as the west built it up to have, Afagistan should have been disposed of quickly and efficiently. By the way, who supplied the Afgans with weapons and training...


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