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Thread: Muslim faith?

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    I'm very curious about the splinter of this faith that condones violence like this. Anybody know much about it?

    I know that the Jews, Christians, and Muslims are originated from the same faith and have differences. Jews think they have the only route to heaven and dont recognize the Christ as the Messhia (though he is still considered a fairly respectable jew I believe) and Christians and jews have the old testamant in common. Jews also dont recognize the holy trinity of course. Christians believe the path to heaven is through Christ. How about specifics with Muslims. I know all three believe in origins from Abraham and prophets up to that point, and have at least that much in common, but at what point did muslims start recognizing other prophets and splinter the their faith off, and what are their beliefs specifically? I really have no idea. Anybody have a clue? I'd love to hear it if you do even if its a best guess (please state so if it is).

    Thanks.
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    Muslims read from a book known as the Koran, and I belive it was 'written' by a prophet named mohammad (?) Its basically a similar thing to the bible, and - just like the bible - is open to misinterpretation.

    We have a LOT of muslims here in Sydney, and theres a lot of people who resent their presence, so theres a lot of misinformation floating round here about them. I try to sort fact from fiction but its kinda hard sometimes, so I'll just share some minor bits I seem to have figured out. I'm probably wrong though LOL.

    Basically a 'true' muslim is much as a true christian is - peacful, kind people. However there is obviously some elelment of this faith that seems to produce fundamentalists a fair bit more hardcore than other religions.

    I think one of the passages of the koran that starts the trouble is one that says 'kill the infidels' - although it never really defines an infidel. Also in other parts of the Koran, murder is warned off as bearing punishment by hell. Sounds like a religous text to me.

    I guess the argument to be made is the bible uses the 'eye for an eye' phrase, yet we dont go round chopping hands, penis's or whatever off anymore.
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    http://www.msnbc.com/news/629531_asp.htm#BODY

    here is part of the story:

    In moments of crisis like the present one, Muslims are quick to stress their bonds with Jews and Christians. Islam recognizes figures like Abraham and Moses and Jesus as prophets of the one God, Allah. Muslims study the Quran like others study the Bible, but they also look to the ahadith , or sayings and stories of Muhammad, for guidance. As Islam evolved into a great medieval civilization, various schools developed to interpret those passages in the Quran that are contradictory or unclear. Like other religions, Islam has its divisions and sects. The Shiites, for example, dominate Iran, where they have developed a hierarchy of clerical authority—the ayatollahs—roughly similar to Roman Catholicism. By contrast, the majority of Sunni Muslims are rather like Protestants in their stress on individual interpretation of the faith. And then there are the great Sufi saints and poets like Rumi who give Islam its mystical dimension.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<br /><br />God Bless the USA!!!!<br />~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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    Wow. They actually recognize Jesus as a prophet of god? That is so contradictory its not even comprehendable.

    I wondered about this because I've known many muslims and they seemed to be pretty outstanding people.....kill the infidels eh? So this one sect took that and ran I guess. That sect needs to go buhbuy.

    Oh that eye for an eye thing is in the old testament and jewish community still holds that as a solid belief. Christ cleared that up a couple thousand years ago as he did with many interpretations (sermon on the mount in mathew), but many christians either dont get it or havn't heard it, or the particular sect has a different interpretation than jesus. I think there is probably more sects in the Chrisian faith than any other isnt there?

    Anyways, the mohhamed piece is what was missing primarily for me, thank you for that. Curious now as to what he said that supposedly supercedes Christ if they actually recognize Christ as a prophet of God. What a trip.

    [ September 17, 2001 at 03:34 PM: Message edited by: seenbad ]
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    A couple semi-corrections on Judaism.

    The basic principle of Judaism is the belief that all people are the "sons" of God, nobody has died for our sins, or will. Obviously, Jews don't recognize the New Testament. Jews don't recognize Christ as anything more than just a person.

    Islam does share a lot commonality with Judaism, apart from the belief that Christ is a prophet of God.

    Jews also don't believe in hell, people don't go to hell. The funny thing is that the idea of Satan and hell did originate in the Old Testament, as I learned not too long ago, but Jews don't believe in it.
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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Brett:
    The funny thing is that the idea of Satan and hell did originate in the Old Testament<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Satan is a corruption (semantically) of the Egyptian god Set. The writers of the OT had obvious reasons for re-inventing a god of their enemy as the enemy of their god.

    One thing I saw pointed out today was that serious followers of Islam aren't supposed to shave their beards ( the males at least [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] ) - yet every picture I've seen of an alleged terrorist is of someone clean-shaven.
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    whoa. I was way off the mark I guess. Judaism doesnt believe in satan or hell? Do all people go to heaven? What is the evil in the world? Also, I know they dont believe Christ is the saviour, but they do recognize him as a jew correct?
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    Emperor of VHLinks.com Brett's Avatar
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    Yeppers that Christ guy is definitely a Jew. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

    Jews believe if you lead a bad life, you go NOWHERE! Not to heaven, nor to hell and that your soul dies, it's not everlasting.

    Now I'm doing this all from my 6 years at Hebrew school and my Bar Mitzvah, I have only gone to temple maybe 3 times in the last 18 years. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

    [ September 17, 2001 at 04:19 PM: Message edited by: Brett ]
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    gotcha [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] Thanks.
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    SOME FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS ABOUT ISLAM, MUSLIMS, AND RELATED ISSUES
    This overview, by the nature of the format, is very cursory. You are encouraged
    to study the issues in much more depth and explore the resources named at the
    end of the questions.

    1. WHAT IS ISLAM?
    Islam is one of the great world religions. It was articulated by the prophet
    Muhammad in the seventh century. The word 'Islam' means submission-submission to
    the will of God--and is derived from a word meaning peace. The name given to God
    in Islam is Allah, which is the Arabic name for God.

    2. WHO ARE MUSLIMS?
    Muslims are people who practice the Islamic faith. Muslims are the second
    largest group of religious people in the world, next to Christians. Muslim
    people come from many races, nationalities and cultures. Many parts of the
    Asian and African world are Muslim. About 18% of Muslims live in the Middle
    Eastern Arab part of the world. However, it should be noted that all Arabs are
    not Muslims. Some are Christians and others practice other religions. Many
    African-Americans are Muslims as their original religion in Africa was Islam.
    Muslims do not see themselves as a "new religion," but rather the last stage of
    God's revelation that began with Abraham continued to Moses, Jesus and
    ultimately Muhammad. Many people of American and European descent have embraced
    Islam.

    3. WHAT DO MUSLIMS BELIEVE?
    Muslims believe in One God. They often use the words, One, Unique, Incomparable
    God. They believe in angels and in the prophets through whom God's revelations
    were made known. Muslims believe in life after death and in accountability for
    one's actions.

    4. DO MUSLIMS BELIEVE IN JESUS CHRIST?
    Muslims believe Jesus Christ was a great prophet. They do not believe that
    Jesus Christ is the second person of the Trinity, the son of God.

    5. IS THERE ANY CONNECTION BETWEEN MUSLIMS AND CHRISTIANITY?
    Muslims trace their origins back to Abraham as do Jews and Christians. They
    believe that Muhammad, their great prophet, was descended from Abraham's son
    Ishmael and that Moses and Jesus were descendents of Isaac. Muslims believe in
    many of the prophets of the Old or First Testament as well as in the prophetic
    mission of John the Baptist and Jesus Christ.

    6. WHO WAS MUHAMMAD?
    Muhammad was born in 570 and orphaned as a young child. As he grew up people
    noticed that he was a truthful, generous and sincere person. He was deeply
    religious and contemplative. He was known as a fair arbitrator. According to
    Islamic belief when Muhammad was forty years old he received his first
    revelation from God through the Angel Gabriel. His revelations continued for 23
    years. The revelations were written down and formed the Islamic holy book or
    Qur'an (Koran). The Qur'an has passages very similar to the Hebrew and
    Christian scriptures, plus unique revelations that Muhammad received.

    7. DO CHRISTIANS BELIEVE IN MUHAMMAD?
    Christians recognize Muhammad as a great religious leader. The Catholic Church
    has a high regard for Muslims.

    8. HOW DO MUSLIMS PRACTICE THEIR RELIGION?
    There are five pillars in Islam:
    One: THE CREED The creed is very simple. Basically, it is as follows:
    There is no god except God. Muhammad is the messenger of God.
    Two: PRAYER Prayer is central to Muslim religious practice. Muslims pray
    five times a day: dawn, noon, mid-afternoon, sunset and nightfall. Muslims
    pray in mosques or wherever they are. The prayers are based on the Qur'an and
    said in Arabic, although personal petitions are said in the vernacular.
    Three: FASTING During the month of Ramadan Muslims fast from dawn until
    sundown as a means of purification and as a way of identifying with the hungry
    of the world. The Muslim calendar is based on a lunar year. This year Ramadan
    begins toward the end of November.
    Four: PURIFYING TAX (Zakat) Muslims believe that all things belong to God and
    that possessions are a trust given to people. The "Purifying Tax" is a way of
    exercising detachment from things as well as a way of providing for the poor.
    It is similar to the concept of stewardship or tithing in the Judeo-Christian
    tradition.
    Five: PILGRIMAGE The journey to Mecca is required once in a life time, if it
    is possible. Mecca is in Saudi Arabia.

    9. WHAT ARE SOME OTHER THINGS UNIQUE TO MUSLIMS?
    Muslims are restricted from eating pork or drinking alcoholic drinks. Their
    weekly holy day is Friday. They worship in mosques. Three mosques are
    particularly important: Mosque of Kaaba in Mecca, Mosque of the Prophet
    Muhammad in Medina and Masjid Aqsa, next to the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem.

    10. WHAT HAVE MUSLIMS CONTRIBUTED TO THE QUALITY OF LIFE IN THE WORLD?
    Since the early centuries of Islam, Muslims have made significant contributions
    to society in the fields of medicine, chemistry, mathematics, arts, poetry,
    spirituality and physics. Two well known landmarks in Chicago, the Sears Tower
    and the John Hancock building were designed by a Muslim architect.

    11. WHY IS IT THAT SOME PEOPLE ASSOCIATE TERRORISM WITH ISLAM AND MUSLIMS?
    There are small groups of Muslims who have distorted the practice of Islam and
    the teachings of Prophet Muhammad by choosing terror and violence as a means of
    fighting perceived injustice. They are extremists. This does not mean that all
    Muslims are violent killers. The vast majority of Muslims oppose these violent
    acts. Just because some Catholics and Protestants act violently in Northern
    Ireland does not mean all Catholics and Protestants are violent. Most
    Christians and Muslims live throughout the world in peace and harmony with their
    neighbors. There are approximately 7,000,000 Muslims living as good neighbors
    in the United States today.

    12. WHAT IS THE TALIBAN THAT WE HEAR SO MUCH ABOUT THESE DAYS?
    The Taliban currently rules most of Afghanistan. The country has been torn by
    civil war for the last thirty years. The rise of the Taliban and the United
    States' role in this is complicated. The word, 'Taliban' in Arabic means
    "seekers of truth." The Taliban is an extremist Islamic group that controls
    ninety percent of Afghanistan. Their interpretation of Islam is not shared by
    the majority of Islamic people. Under their interpretation of the "truth,"
    television, dance, film, playing cards, chessboards, fashion catalogues,
    neckties, photography, kite-flying, non-religious music have been banned. Women
    cannot attend school or work and generally receive little or no medical care.
    Famous statues of the giant Buddhas have been destroyed. The majority of
    Islamic scholars call the Taliban interpretation of Islam a gross distortion.

    13. WHAT ARE THE CAUSES OF TERRORISM?
    There is no easy answer to this question. Many acts of terrorism are rooted in
    the experience of oppression and social injustice. Terrorists choose to use
    violence to eradicate injustice rather than political processes or non-violent
    approaches as Ghandi or Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. did.

    14. HOW CAN TERRORISM BE ELIMINATED?
    Terrorism can be eliminated by helping all people respect diversity, working for
    social justice on a global scale and teaching effective skills of dialogue,
    negotiation and non-violent ways to bring about change. We must also continue
    to promote the sanctity and basic dignity of all human beings in such a way that
    we grow in a global respect and promotion of human dignity.

    15. AS CATHOLICS WHAT SHOULD OUR ATTITUDE AND OUR RELATIONSHIP TO MUSLIMS BE?
    Nowhere is this better stated than in the teachings of the Second Vatican
    Council:
    "The Church has … a high regard for Muslims. They worship God, who is one,
    living and subsistent, merciful and almighty, the Creator of heaven and earth,
    who has spoken to men. They strive to submit themselves without reserve to the
    hidden decrees of God, just as Abraham submitted himself to God's plan, to whose
    faith Muslims eagerly link their own. Although not acknowledging him as God,
    they venerate Jesus as a prophet. They honor his virgin Mother and even at times
    devoutly invoke her. They highly esteem an upright life and worship God
    especially by way of prayer, almsgiving and fasting. Over the centuries many
    quarrels and dissensions have arisen between Christians and Muslims. The sacred
    Council now pleads with all to forget the past, and urges that a sincere effort
    be made to achieve mutual understanding; for the benefit of all, let them
    together preserve and promote peace, liberty, social justice and moral values."
    (Nostra Aetate 3)

    Resources

    For United States Bishop Conference Statement and Papal Statements: http://www.nccbuscc.org Click on "National Tragedy" The web site also has
    various resources related to Confronting a Culture of Violence

    Ecumenical and Interfaith Office, Archdiocese of Milwaukee, Judy Longdin
    414-
    769-3483 or (800) 769-9373, ext. 483.

    The Institute of Islamic Information and Education, P. O. Box 41129,
    Chicago, Illinois 60641-0129 Phone: (773) 777-7443) Fax (773) 777-7199

    Understanding Islam and the Muslims, The Islamic Affairs Department, Embassy of Saudi Arabia, Washington DC

    The main local Mosque is the Islamic Society of Milwaukee Mosque at 4707 S.
    13 St. 414-282-1812 The Salam School is at the same site: 414-282-0504
    Humaira Bokhari,is the principal of the school

    Information on the Taliban

    What Everyone Should Know About Islam and Muslims by Suzanne Haneef, Library
    of Islam, 1996

    Understanding Islam, Society for Adherence to Sunnah, P.O. Box 2148,
    Washington, D.C. 20013 Phone: 202-833-4993 web page
    web page

    Milwaukee Muslim Women's Coalition 414-964- 6692
    "May you die at age 128, in bed, shot to death by a jealous lover" DLR 2002

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    Holy shit LA! [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img] You really came through on that one! Mmmmmwwwaaah! [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]
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    14. HOW CAN TERRORISM BE ELIMINATED?
    Terrorism can be eliminated by helping all people respect diversity, working for
    social justice on a global scale and teaching effective skills of dialogue,
    negotiation and non-violent ways to bring about change. We must also continue
    to promote the sanctity and basic dignity of all human beings in such a way that
    we grow in a global respect and promotion of human dignity.



    Let's all just sit down and have a nice, in-depth talking-to with the terrorists. Maybe give them whatever they want, just to appease them, and ACCEPT them for their violent ways. After all, just because we disagree with their means does not make them 'wrong'. Only our American arrogance would lead us to believe so, even if their own religion does not condone their brutal violence on innocent people thousands of miles away. [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

    Ya know, we've tried for AGES to be peacemakers among terroristic nations, and look what it got us. Anyone who thinks that we can eliminate terrorism in a peaceful manner is only fooling themselves. Whoever was the original author of the answer to that question above is living in a dream world. If we were to follow the answer provided, terrorism would reign supreme over the entire planet in a short period of time.
    Don't bark at me...<b>I</b> didn't name ya.

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    Or maybe the CIA can offer them a million bones to rat out bin Laden! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by seenbad:
    Holy shit LA! [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img] You really came through on that one! Mmmmmwwwaaah! [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I've gotta come clean on this one. A friend (who is a teacher) sent me that info, but it seemed to answer the questions that were asked here. She did all the research, and supported it with the links, etc. Antoinette's the author on that one...
    "May you die at age 128, in bed, shot to death by a jealous lover" DLR 2002

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AbeVanHalen:
    14. HOW CAN TERRORISM BE ELIMINATED?
    Terrorism can be eliminated by helping all people respect diversity, working for
    social justice on a global scale and teaching effective skills of dialogue,
    negotiation and non-violent ways to bring about change. We must also continue
    to promote the sanctity and basic dignity of all human beings in such a way that
    we grow in a global respect and promotion of human dignity.



    Let's all just sit down and have a nice, in-depth talking-to with the terrorists. Maybe give them whatever they want, just to appease them, and ACCEPT them for their violent ways. After all, just because we disagree with their means does not make them 'wrong'. Only our American arrogance would lead us to believe so, even if their own religion does not condone their brutal violence on innocent people thousands of miles away. [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

    Ya know, we've tried for AGES to be peacemakers among terroristic nations, and look what it got us. Anyone who thinks that we can eliminate terrorism in a peaceful manner is only fooling themselves. Whoever was the original author of the answer to that question above is living in a dream world. If we were to follow the answer provided, terrorism would reign supreme over the entire planet in a short period of time.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I'm not saying that this will always work... but it certainly made an impact when Ghandi tried it! Look, violence breeds violence. Perfect example is battered children. The only way that a battered child doesn't grow up to be a batterer him/herself is if they get some counseling... they talk it out.

    Obviously, getting to sit down and chat with the people who did this isn't going to be practical. But bombing the hell out of them isn't going to make them stop either. The Taliban (sp) have declared war on the US, simply because they fear that we'll harm them for harboring Bin Laden. Violence breeds violence. Somehow there has to be a way that we can do this... bring justice to those who did this... WITHOUT shedding one single drop more of American blood.

    Ideally I'd love to see this handled peacefully, but... sadly, that just isn't an alternative in this case. That's what I meant when I left that item in my friend's list. I contemplated excluding it, but, I agree with her sentiment, so I left it in.
    "May you die at age 128, in bed, shot to death by a jealous lover" DLR 2002

 

 

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