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  1. #1
    Hot For Teacher Kula's Avatar
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    Can someone explain to me the following:

    Why is it, that if you're found on an airplane with a gun/knife, it is a federal crime, but if you're stopped in an airport, and they find a gun/knife before you board the plane, it's not? If security's good enough, you won't be charged with a federal crime, but if security fucks up and misses something, then it's a federal crime?

    At least that's how I understand what I've heard...Unless you're on the airplane, it's not a federal crime, it's instead, in the hands of the state. (correct me if I'm wrong)

    Maybe I'm just confused...

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    Johnson Rod Pabs's Avatar
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    Donor

    Maybe because you're not supposed to be on a plane with weapons?

    Who cares if security doesn't catch it? You're on a plane. You're not supposed to be on a plane with weapons. Everyone should know that. Getting caught in the airport is like getting caught in a public building. You get put in the room, and you get questioned and whatnot, and they destroy your goodies.

    But on an airplane....oh no no no.
    CHICAGO WHITE SOX - 2005 WORLD CHAMPIONS

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    The Pilgrims/Americans/Somersets whatever you want to call them, have NEVER displayed "SOX" anywhere on their caps, jerseys, or merchandise, therefore they shouldn't be referred to as such. However, the White Sox have used "SOX" since 1912.

    The SOX are in Chicago...we just allow the Pilgrims/Americans/Somersets to use the name.

    2007 Fantasy Football Champion

  3. #3
    Hot For Teacher Kula's Avatar
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    <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Pabs:
    Maybe because you're not supposed to be on a plane with weapons?

    Who cares if security doesn't catch it? You're on a plane. You're not supposed to be on a plane with weapons. Everyone should know that. Getting caught in the airport is like getting caught in a public building. You get put in the room, and you get questioned and whatnot, and they destroy your goodies.

    But on an airplane....oh no no no.
    <hr></blockquote>

    So, you're saying intent to get on a plane isn't good enough for it to be a federal crime...

    Maybe everyone with weapons in an airport shouldn't face federal punishment, but if you go through the security checks (weapon unnoticed), and are just sitting there waiting to board a plane, you should face the same punishment as someone who gets on the plane. Why draw the line at the entrance to the plane? Why not at the first security checkpoint where you go through the metal detectors, etc.?

  4. #4
    Atomic Punk MikeL's Avatar
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    Donor

    <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Kula:
    Can someone explain to me the following:

    Why is it, that if you're found on an airplane with a gun/knife, it is a federal crime, but if you're stopped in an airport, and they find a gun/knife before you board the plane, it's not? If security's good enough, you won't be charged with a federal crime, but if security fucks up and misses something, then it's a federal crime?
    <hr></blockquote>

    I don't know, but I think it has something to do with jusidiction. When you're in an airport, there's not necessarily any Federal law you're breaking. Once you get on an aircraft, things like the Federal Aviation Regulations apply.

    As for security fucking up, Pabs is right. Doesn't take a genius to know you can't bring such things on an airplane anymore.

    [ December 11, 2001 at 01:14 PM: Message edited by: MikeL ]</p>

  5. #5
    Johnson Rod Pabs's Avatar
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    Donor

    <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Kula:


    So, you're saying intent to get on a plane isn't good enough for it to be a federal crime...

    Maybe everyone with weapons in an airport shouldn't face federal punishment, but if you go through the security checks (weapon unnoticed), and are just sitting there waiting to board a plane, you should face the same punishment as someone who gets on the plane. Why draw the line at the entrance to the plane? Why not at the first security checkpoint where you go through the metal detectors, etc.?
    <hr></blockquote>


    Well, I didn't say "intent" shouldn't be a crime. I think it should be a crime. To the degree of actually physically being on the plane though? No. Things have changed now since 9/11, where you need the ticket to get beyond the detectors, but back before when you can walk your party to the gate, you didn't need a ticket. I mean, if you're carrying something, get nailed, then what? It doesn't always mean you're going on the plane.

    If you're slick enough to get beyond security, then your intentions are high, and you should get nailed.

    Like I said, if you're on a plane, then you're going down.

    But in the airport, nothing guarentees you're going on a plane.
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    The Pilgrims/Americans/Somersets whatever you want to call them, have NEVER displayed "SOX" anywhere on their caps, jerseys, or merchandise, therefore they shouldn't be referred to as such. However, the White Sox have used "SOX" since 1912.

    The SOX are in Chicago...we just allow the Pilgrims/Americans/Somersets to use the name.

    2007 Fantasy Football Champion

  6. #6
    Atomic Punk MikeL's Avatar
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    Donor

    <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Pabs:
    But in the airport, nothing guarentees you're going on a plane.<hr></blockquote>

    More to the point, you haven't yet gotten on the plane. If getting on the plane is the violation of the Federal law, than that's the point at which you're guilty of it.

    So the screeners don't catch you. That doesn't absolve you of violating the law if you board a plane with a boxcutter. The other side of that coin is that if you haven't gotten on the plane, you haven't violated that law yet.

    What's the issue?

  7. #7
    Hot For Teacher Kula's Avatar
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    <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Pabs:



    Things have changed now since 9/11, where you need the ticket to get beyond the detectors, but back before when you can walk your party to the gate, you didn't need a ticket. I mean, if you're carrying something, get nailed, then what? It doesn't always mean you're going on the plane.
    <hr></blockquote>

    But that's what I'm trying to say...now that you can't get past there without a ticket, why not make the area beyond the detectors "federal" grounds and treat all offenders beyond that point the same?

  8. #8
    Johnson Rod Pabs's Avatar
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    Donor

    Well, the issue I guess is that you're not really committing a federal crime until you board the plane.

    I mean, it could be argued in many ways.

    You can have a box cutter if your a painter or something in the terminal. A bit extreme, but you know how things can get extreme.

    Take EVH for example. He claims he forgot he had the gun with him until he already put the bag down. Some people don't think about it maybe.

    I guess if you're trying to be slick, and you get caught, then it a different kind of crime. Because it is an attempt.

    However, it's not nearly as bad as if you're already on the plane.
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    The Pilgrims/Americans/Somersets whatever you want to call them, have NEVER displayed "SOX" anywhere on their caps, jerseys, or merchandise, therefore they shouldn't be referred to as such. However, the White Sox have used "SOX" since 1912.

    The SOX are in Chicago...we just allow the Pilgrims/Americans/Somersets to use the name.

    2007 Fantasy Football Champion

  9. #9
    Hot For Teacher Kula's Avatar
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    <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by MikeL:


    More to the point, you haven't yet gotten on the plane. If getting on the plane is the violation of the Federal law, than that's the point at which you're guilty of it.

    So the screeners don't catch you. That doesn't absolve you of violating the law if you board a plane with a boxcutter. The other side of that coin is that if you haven't gotten on the plane, you haven't violated that law yet.

    What's the issue?
    <hr></blockquote>


    That's what I think is stupid--if you've went through the screening process and are waiting for your plane, why should you have to be on the plane for it to be a federal offense. I think it should be changed to state that if you are found posessing a forbidden item beyond the screening area, you are guilty of a federal crime. It just seems dumb that you actually have to board the plane to be guilty of the crime.

    Like that guy in Chicago who had 6 or 7 knives and a can of mace...he got past the screening but was randomly searched at the gate...he wasn't guilty of a federal crime because he didn't make it on the plane. I think that's bullshit!

  10. #10
    Hot For Teacher Kula's Avatar
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    <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Pabs:
    Well, the issue I guess is that you're not really committing a federal crime until you board the plane.

    I mean, it could be argued in many ways.

    You can have a box cutter if your a painter or something in the terminal. A bit extreme, but you know how things can get extreme.

    Take EVH for example. He claims he forgot he had the gun with him until he already put the bag down. Some people don't think about it maybe.

    I guess if you're trying to be slick, and you get caught, then it a different kind of crime. Because it is an attempt.

    However, it's not nearly as bad as if you're already on the plane.
    <hr></blockquote>


    Yeah, but how many people would forget to take a knife out of their pocket now--after everything that's happened and all the signs that are posted at the airport? And who's to say that if you forgot you had a knife in your pocket, you'd remember somewhere after the security check and before boarding the plane to take it out and get rid of it--even those who forgot they had a knife on them, and boarded a plane, could be charged with a federal crime...forgetting/ignorance is not a good excuse.

  11. #11
    Johnson Rod Pabs's Avatar
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    Donor

    <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Kula:


    But that's what I'm trying to say...now that you can't get past there without a ticket, why not make the area beyond the detectors "federal" grounds and treat all offenders beyond that point the same?
    <hr></blockquote>

    I don't think so because you're still not on the plane, yet!

    Just because you have a ticket, it doesn't mean you're gonna get on that plane.

    It's like when I used to work in Loss Prevention. You can see the kid pocket the shit on camera. But you can NOT bust him until he or she walks out of the store. They may turn around and put it back (due to conscience). Then, they're clean. Same thing here. If whomever with the weapon decides to turn around and give up the weapon, then can they still get busted to the same degree of actually being on the plane? I'd say no.

    [ December 11, 2001 at 01:40 PM: Message edited by: Pabs ]</p>
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    The Pilgrims/Americans/Somersets whatever you want to call them, have NEVER displayed "SOX" anywhere on their caps, jerseys, or merchandise, therefore they shouldn't be referred to as such. However, the White Sox have used "SOX" since 1912.

    The SOX are in Chicago...we just allow the Pilgrims/Americans/Somersets to use the name.

    2007 Fantasy Football Champion

  12. #12
    Johnson Rod Pabs's Avatar
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    Donor

    <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Kula:



    Yeah, but how many people would forget to take a knife out of their pocket now--after everything that's happened and all the signs that are posted at the airport? And who's to say that if you forgot you had a knife in your pocket, you'd remember somewhere after the security check and before boarding the plane to take it out and get rid of it--even those who forgot they had a knife on them, and boarded a plane, could be charged with a federal crime...forgetting/ignorance is not a good excuse.
    <hr></blockquote>


    Dude, you'd be surprized. When my sister was on her honeymoon, the 9/11 attacks took place. When she was coming back, they confiscated her nail clippers and razor. (My brother-in-law has an electric)

    You can take the little hook blade that is only an inch long, and open it and stab someone good in the neck, and maybe even kill them. Hell, they used box cutters right? Why not a nail clipper of metal nail file?

    She didn't think about it. But I guess if you do remember, better than to give it up, than it is to get busted on the plane.
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    The Pilgrims/Americans/Somersets whatever you want to call them, have NEVER displayed "SOX" anywhere on their caps, jerseys, or merchandise, therefore they shouldn't be referred to as such. However, the White Sox have used "SOX" since 1912.

    The SOX are in Chicago...we just allow the Pilgrims/Americans/Somersets to use the name.

    2007 Fantasy Football Champion

  13. #13
    Hot For Teacher Kula's Avatar
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    Well, I guess that's where we disagree...especially now, you should know not to have these items once you go through the screening process. I just feel the federal crime should start there. Everyone knows the rules--no knives, guns, etc. If you can't remember that you have a weapon on you now, you're not going to remember before you board the plane either. But hey, that's just my opinion.

    Thanks for all the discussion...feel free to continue, but I, unfortunately, am on my way out...I'll jump back in tomorrow!

    Have a good one!

  14. #14
    Hot For Teacher Kula's Avatar
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    Yeah, it can be a tough call...I don't think you can arrest everyone with a nail file or nail clippers, but you can make people turn them over at the screening booth...and with messages posted, people should be more aware of what they have on them. I know I was when I went to Vegas in October.

    I guess the security can never be perfect, but when I see things like what happened a while ago in Chicago, it just pisses me off!

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    Atomic Punk MikeL's Avatar
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    Donor

    This may be something involving jurisdiction, like I'd said earlier. Or it might be a case of the laws not changing rapidly enough to keep pace with changes in how airports are run.

    In the end it's probably that being in possesion of a knife just isn't a federal crime. Like Pabs said, there are reasons to have a knife inside of the passenger-only areas.

    I'd think that evading a screening proceedure might be a better new crime rather than possesion of a knife. That's a whole other ball of wax, though.

 

 

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