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    03.20.07 @ 12:01 PM
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    I read this on a website from a local weekly newspaper. I found it very moving, and offers a new perspective facing the plight of Middle Easterners (specifically Iraqis). It's an interesting read nonetheless. I'll paste the article at the bottom for those of you too lazy to click the link (you know who you are! )
    I suggest going to the site though, since there are pictures, and it's easier to read.

    http://www.metroland.net/features.html

    SEE NO EVIL

    U.S. policy results in slow genocide in the cradle of civilization—Iraq

    Photos and essay by Jane McBee

    “Full degradation of the water treatment system probably will take at least another six months.”

    —From a January 1991 U.S. Defense Intelligence document titled Iraq Water Treatment Vulnerabilities

    Water is essential for life. Destroying a country’s water supply is an insidious way of delivering a deathblow. Just last week President George W. Bush signed the $4.8 billion bioterror bill urging increased security for the water systems of American cities, citing the threat of possible terrorist attacks on U.S. water.

    Yet, in an effort to ultimately topple Saddam Hussein from power, this is exactly what the United States has been doing to the people of Iraq for the past decade, beginning with the bombing of their infrastructure in 1991. Defense Intelligence documents available on the Pentagon’s own Web site state that our government was fully aware of the consequences of destroying Iraq’s water treatment, sanitation and electrical plants and then coldly monitored the devastating effects on the civilian population.

    The phrase “particularly the children” appears repeatedly in the calculations of probable death and disease.

    UNICEF estimates that 5,000 Iraqi children under the age of 5 years old die every month as a direct result of continuing economic sanctions.

    As predicted in the intelligence reports, the greatest killer of children in Iraq is waterborne disease. But the equipment and supplies to repair and maintain water, sanitation and electrical plants have been held up in the complicated maze of U.N. sanctions and contracts, as well as holds by U.N. Committee 661. This committee decides which items can or cannot be sent to Iraq. At various times, essential items such as hypodermic needles, blood bags and even pencils have been banned because they could also be used to produce weapons. Tun Myat, former coordinator of the U.N. Oil for Food Program, said, “The United States is 661.”

    I recently spent two weeks in Iraq as part of a humanitarian delegation sponsored by Washington Physicians for Social Responsibility. Fifteen people from all walks of life made a conscious decision to break the U.N. economic sanctions against the people of Iraq by carrying a token amount of medical supplies, children’s clothing and school items, such as crayons, pencils and paper. All delegates risk as much as $1 million in fines and 12 years in prison. While the engineers, statisticians and medical personnel had concrete goals to accomplish, my job was simply to take photographs, be a witness, meet Iraqi people and hear their stories. Expecting the rage and hostility that a nation starved of even books and periodicals must feel, I was stunned by their kindness, warmth and open-heartedness.

    “You are welcome in our country,” was the constant theme. “We love Americans, but we don’t love your government.”

    Many people simply asked, “Why is your government doing this to us?”

    I could have given them the rhetoric that I read and hear every day in American media: Saddam Hussein is a brutal dictator developing and amassing weapons of mass destruction, and we must find a way to diminish his power. But what sense does this make to a mother weeping over a picture of her dead child? How could I justify the bombing of a desperately poor neighborhood, already in the death throes from previous bombings and the effects of polluted water, to advance the cause of regime change in Iraq?

    Dr. Abdul Al-Hashimi, Iraqi president of the Organization for Friendship, Peace and Solidarity, spoke to our group in Baghdad. “Who told you that your way of life is better?” he asked. “Who gave Congress the right to issue a law for the liberation of Iraq? Who gave you the right?”

    Al-Hashimi spoke passionately about the United States’ use of depleted-uranium weapons in Iraq and elsewhere, and the resulting long-term destruction to the environment and catastrophic increases of cancer and birth defects. It is estimated that during the Gulf War, over 1 million depleted uranium “bullets” were used in the Basrah area in southern Iraq.

    I viewed the grim library of snapshots taken by Dr. Janan Hassan at the Basrah Maternity and Pediatric Hospital. They depict congenital deformities too awful to imagine: children born with external organs, no eyes, no orifices, and even one with no head. Other photographs depict before-and-after images of beautiful grade-school-aged children and the results from being denied drugs that could have spared them excruciating deaths.

    I, too, wonder why we don’t play by the rules that we helped write for the rest of the world, those basic tenets of humanitarian law and simple compassion.

    In Amman, the Jordanian Minister of Water, Dr. Munther J. Haddadin, spoke to our delegation. “You wonder why there are terrorists?” he asked. “What do you think these children will be in 10 years? Do you think they’ll join the Peace Corps?”

    Dr. Haddadin, who was educated at the University of Washington and is married to an American, continued, “The feelings on the streets here are not only confusion, but rage at how the greatest power on Earth is viewing the situation here and how unfair it is. We wonder how the ‘land of the free’ and ‘home of the brave’ can talk of regime change. It’s outrageous. It’s not the America that we have known. It’s not the country that educated us.”

    Call me sentimental, but I still want to believe in the land of the free, the home of the brave. I still want to be proud of being American, to say the pledge of allegiance and feel those goose bumps up my back, knowing that I live in the greatest nation on Earth.

    But the images of dehydrated babies mewing like weak kittens and the pleas of a despairing father haunt me. Instead of pride, I feel deep sadness that my government’s political agenda has hastened the deaths of nearly a half-million Iraqi children who left this Earth thirsty for a little human kindness and a clean drink of water.


    A dehydrated child is comforted by her mother and grandmother at the Diarrhea Clinic in Basrah. Due to the U.S. bombing of Iraq’s water-treatment facilities, waterborne illness is one of the leading causes of death.

    Toufek Muhammad Ali was the 1954 Bodybuilding Champion of the whole Persian Gulf Region.

    Ali Ab Magd is a woodcarver in the Suadon district of Baghdad. He proudly shows off his work while a friend runs upstairs to get coffee and cookies.
    An enthusiastic invitation follows for dinner with the woodcarver’s extended family that lives in the apartments above the shop.

    Children roam the streets of Baghdad, many caring for younger siblings or working to help support the family. In Basrah, I saw a 4-year-old trudging down to the hotel around 6 AM to sell little packets of seeds. She was still there when I turned in at midnight.

    Children play in the trash and wastewater that trickles through the streets of Jumeirah. I asked an engineer in our delegation why the neighbors don’t do something about the situation. He replied that there is no trash pickup, no personal vehicles for hauling it away, and a whole lot of despair.

    The children of Jumeriya were born into a precarious life. Their neighborhood was bombed during the Gulf War and again in 1999, killing 25 people and wounding many others. There are documented reports of bombings on shepherds, farmers, hospitals and schools.

    Even though most Iraqis subsist on the meager food basket provided by the Iraqi government, I was invariably offered tea, coffee, a homemade cookie—or sadly, cups of water too toxic to drink.

    This congenial woman in the Al Alowie market asked me to take her picture. This happened so frequently in Iraq that I asked the head of our delegation, a bereavement counselor, to explain it. She said it’s simple—no one wants to be forgotten.

    This Basrah couple fishes in oily, polluted waters to supplement their food rations. Basrah sits at the end of the water chain, where the Tigris and Euphrates join after traveling through Turkey, Syria and the rest of Iraq, picking up waste and chemicals on their journey to the Persian Gulf. These rivers are the main water source for much of Iraq.

    Bread sellers in the peasant market in the Al Alowie district of Baghdad.

    We arrived early, but the courtyard at the Diarrhea Clinic was already filled with anxious mothers and crying children, many already in advanced stages of dehydration. “Water and sanitation are the biggest killers of children in this country. Not all the food and medicine in the world will improve the condition or the livelihood of these people till water and sanitation are improved,” says Tun Myat.

    Wisam, a young patient at the Basrah Maternity and Pediatric Hospital, has a stomach tumor that has returned after surgery, and there are no drugs available to stop the growth. The doctor hasn’t told Malek, the father, that his son is dying. He begs, “Please bring medicine to save my son. Please.” I asked Wisam if he could do anything he wanted, what would he do? “I’d play with the animals at my father’s farm,” he said. His second choice was to play marbles. A friend and I ventured into the black market to find marbles—a pathetically small gesture, but it was all we could do for him.

    On Feb. 13, 1991, a U.S. smart bomb bored through two meters of steel and concrete into the center of a bomb shelter in Ameriya, a middle-class neighborhood in Baghdad. Moments later, a second million-dollar bomb struck, sending 750-degree flames through the ventilation system, incinerating more than 400 women, children and a handful of elderly men. The Pentagon apologized for the “mistake.”



    Jane McBee is a photographer living in Colorado Springs, Colo. This story first appeared in the Colorado Springs Independent.

    • To read more about economic sanctions in Iraq, visit the Global Policy Forum Web site at: www.globalpolicy.org/security/sanction.

    • For an overview of the Pentagon’s policy to intentionally destroy the Iraqi water supply, read Thomas J. Nagy’s exposé published in The Progressive magazine in Sept. 2001: www.progressive.org/0901/nagy0901.html.

  2. #2
    Sinner's Swing! twonabomber's Avatar
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    12.08.16 @ 03:21 AM
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    Originally posted by strungout:
    UNICEF estimates that 5,000 Iraqi children under the age of 5 years old die every month as a direct result of continuing economic sanctions.
    well...that's 5,000 children that won't grow up to be suicide bombers, or airplane hijackers...i know it's a rotten thing to say, and i fully expect to take some shit for it. but i'm about out of sympathy...
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    03.20.07 @ 12:01 PM
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    I definitely understand where you're coming from, but it's an endless cycle of death and hatred. They hate us, so they want to kill us (some of them), so our government flexes its muscles to push them down farther, leading to more hate, more suicide bombers,...etc...

    It's just an unfortunate plight for humanity. This article opened my eyes a little more to what the regular person is going through over there. We look at them as these horrible middle eastern people, this evil race of America-haters. Most of them just want to have a normal life like you and me, but are so oppressed that they can barely live. We have to understand how they got that way, and why they continue to dislike us. Unfortunately many Mid-East rulers are power hungry and corrupt (Saddam), with little care for their own people.

    It's impossible to get the whole picture from one article, or even our own news because I'm sure there's a little propaganda thrown in here and there (every country does it). I just think it's important in this day and age of hate to just step back for a second, and take the other sides point of view. While the governments play war games with eachother, it's ultimately the people who suffer, like you and me, and the children in Iraq (as this article suggests).

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    08.17.07 @ 05:09 PM
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    Originally posted by strungout:
    IWhile the governments play war games with eachother, it's ultimately the people who suffer, like you and me, and the children in Iraq (as this article suggests).
    While the government leaders sit comfy... full stomachs and excellent medical care... yep... and the people suffer. [img]graemlins/cry.gif[/img]
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    12.13.17 @ 12:16 PM
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    I'd just as soon have Saddam stay in power. It gives us pretty much Carte Blanche for having military in the area.

    Having said that, all of this is Saddam's doing not the U.S.' (Bush, Clinton or Bush). In 1980, Iraq controlled 10% of the world's oil market. 1 out of every ten barrels were Iraqi. Saddam could have made his country into a virtual garden of Eden. Instead he went to war with Iran. After that bloody war which ended in a stalemate came that little Kuwait deal. No wonder the economy and the people if Iraq are in the toilet. He has denied U.N. inspectors right of passage in Iraq and while the people and children of that country suffers, he continues to build lavish palaces for himself and his immediate family. Maybe they deserve him. Like others, I'm pretty low in the sympathy department at this time.
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    06.23.17 @ 09:49 PM
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    poor poor saddam
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    12.08.16 @ 03:21 AM
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    another thing the US government hopes to achieve with the embargos, etc-they think, eventually, the Iraqi people will rise up against Saddam and overthrow him on their own. the people have no food, and the government keeps building palaces. how can they blame us for that? the guy does nothing but run his mouth, forgetting about the ass-kicking he got from the coalition ten years ago. Allah had nothing to do with his survival, it was more the (maybe unwritten) US policy of not taking out the leader of another country. we're not holding the people down, Saddam is. the sooner they realize this, the better off they'll be.
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    03.20.07 @ 12:01 PM
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    Originally posted by twonabomber:
    another thing the US government hopes to achieve with the embargos, etc-they think, eventually, the Iraqi people will rise up against Saddam and overthrow him on their own. the people have no food, and the government keeps building palaces. how can they blame us for that? the guy does nothing but run his mouth, forgetting about the ass-kicking he got from the coalition ten years ago. Allah had nothing to do with his survival, it was more the (maybe unwritten) US policy of not taking out the leader of another country. we're not holding the people down, Saddam is. the sooner they realize this, the better off they'll be.
    That's just it, they don't realize this. How are they supposed to find out? Many of them don't have a world news source, and those that do have an 'Iraqi' version of it, and I'm sure you could guess what point of view that would have. All these people know about us are the bombs our government drops on their homes. Sure Saddam's an ass and as corrupt as any dictator in history, but the longer we bomb their civilians (accidentally or otherwise), and starve their people, the deeper the hate will be rooted. We're talking humanity here. These are people, not rats. It's unfortunate that a few really really bad apples who have become corrupt on money and power can cause so much hate between people on oppositte sides of the earth. [img]graemlins/cry.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/irked.gif[/img]

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    02.16.16 @ 06:50 AM
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    Be careful of the sources......see the links at the bottom? "alternative news sources" = America Haters..........in this case anyway [img]graemlins/irked.gif[/img] This kind of stuf is everywhere. Bad USA - good starving kids in the Middle East. What a crock of apeshit. Don't get me wrong, I feel really bad and all for the children, but we didn't make that place the hellhole that it is. There once was a time when Iraq was beautiful. Now it is time to turn that fucking place into a parking lot
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    Originally posted by twonabomber:
    </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by strungout:
    UNICEF estimates that 5,000 Iraqi children under the age of 5 years old die every month as a direct result of continuing economic sanctions.
    well...that's 5,000 children that won't grow up to be suicide bombers, or airplane hijackers...i know it's a rotten thing to say, and i fully expect to take some shit for it. but i'm about out of sympathy...</font>[/QUOTE]I'm fresh out of sympathy as well. Nip it in the bud and the weed won't grow. Out.
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    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
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    No mercy! I want Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Sudan, and Syria off the map. Whatever it takes, I will support! I don't sympathize with the enemy.

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    07.22.09 @ 11:11 AM
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    Originally posted by strungout:
    I definitely understand where you're coming from, but it's an endless cycle of death and hatred. They hate us, so they want to kill us (some of them), so our government flexes its muscles to push them down farther, leading to more hate, more suicide bombers,...etc..
    I think the hate that breeds Arab suicide bombers is significantly more about religious differences, cultural differences and U.S. support of Israel than it is about any U.S. military actions in Iraq or “our government flexing its muscles to push them down farther.” We are not regularly bombing Iraq, and, with only a couple of rare instances, we haven’t in over a decade, which is why nearly all of the references in this article are about U.S. bombings in Iraq during the Gulf War. Let’s not forget that for the past decade the U.S. and its allies have been putting their own pilots’ lives at risk by having them patrol the no-fly zones in Iraq as a way to protect innocent Iraqi citizens (Kurds in the North and Shiites in the South) from Saddam dropping biological or chemical weapons on them. But the United States are the bad guys?!?

    I would also ask if we are even sure all the Iraqi citizen health problems that are described in this article are from U.S. bombs. Saddam has a history of using and testing chemical weapons on his own people so I certainly wouldn’t be surprised if that is completely or partially to blame for what has happened to the Iraqi people -– especially when he can turn around and blame it on the U.S. Of course, that possibility is never addressed by writer Jane McBee.

    Originally posted by strungout:
    It's just an unfortunate plight for humanity. This article opened my eyes a little more to what the regular person is going through over there. We look at them as these horrible middle eastern people, this evil race of America-haters. Most of them just want to have a normal life like you and me, but are so oppressed that they can barely live. We have to understand how they got that way, and why they continue to dislike us. Unfortunately many Mid-East rulers are power hungry and corrupt (Saddam), with little care for their own people.
    There is not much we’ll EVER be able to do to convince the citizens of Iraq that U.S. is a compassionate nation until Saddam is overthrown and gone. Who do you think is the person that’s peddling these tales of the U.S. causing their plight? He controls the media, and with it controls the entire message to the Iraqi people that says the U.S. is the scapegoat for all their problems. He also controls the manipulative images of the sick and starving Iraqi people (or his PR pawns, as they really are) to the rest of the world. Moreover, it’s not like Iraqi citizens were living in affluence and prosperity before the Gulf War, as widespread poverty and disease were happening under Saddam’s tyrannical rule then, too (as well as the aforementioned dropping of chemical weapons on Iraqi citizens by Saddam’s military).

    Saddam is a corrupt dictator heading a corrupt government which kills and oppresses its own people and has invaded two other nations (Iran, Kuwait) over the past two decades. His government is still lining its pockets with money from the U.N. Security Council oil-for-food program, which was meant to provide for the humanitarian needs of Iraqi citizens. Maybe the program is flawed and should be revised, but nevertheless, Saddam hasn’t taken any steps with the wealth available to him and his government to help its citizens by providing food, medical supplies, economic development activities and the rebuilding of the nation’s infrastructure. Instead, the Butcher of Baghdad skirts the oil-for-food program by secretly smuggling oil to his terrorist brethren, like Syria. He then pockets the money from these smuggling activities (or uses it to finance further development of weapons of mass destruction) instead of helping the Iraqi citizens. Let’s not forget that Saddam recently instituted a one-month stoppage of oil exports to the U.S. to protest Israel’s military offensive in the West Bank, which also stopped revenue that could’ve been helping the Iraqi citizens. IMO, if Iraq can survive for a month without substantial oil revenue, I would say that Saddam’s government probably has plenty of money in reserve and/or flowing from illegal sources, including the aforementioned secret and illegal oil exports. How about the fact that he imports large quantities of cigarettes and alcohol for his military and political elite friends in exchange for food and medicine intended for the Iraqi people? Are we supposed to believe that the U.S. is to blame for that, too? Of course, Saddam does all this while telling the world that there is no money available for his oppressed citizens. What a murderous hypocrite. Once again, the citizens should be pointing their fingers of blame at that evil bastard Saddam, not the U.S.

    BTW, the U.N. was the creator and is the continued supporter of the economic sanctions against Iraq that are criticized in this article, not the U.S. by itself. However, Jane McBee seems to be ignoring the facts and public stances of fellow U.N. members, and instead quotes former coordinator of the U.N. Oil for Food Program Tun Myat, who say it’s all the doing of the U.S. Of course, Myat is a citizen of Myanmar, a non-democratic nation that is full of anti-American sentiment and is ruled by a military junta, so Myat’s comments need to be taken with a grain of salt.

    Originally posted by strungout:
    It's impossible to get the whole picture from one article, or even our own news because I'm sure there's a little propaganda thrown in here and there (every country does it). I just think it's important in this day and age of hate to just step back for a second, and take the other sides point of view. While the governments play war games with eachother, it's ultimately the people who suffer, like you and me, and the children in Iraq (as this article suggests).
    First of all, this article is biased and the writer obviously has an agenda (as chewbaccamonkeylunch posted, just look at the link to an article in The Progressive, a left-wing, anti-American publication). The writer continually emphasized the U.S. actions for the plight of Iraqi citizens without putting the onus for the nation’s problems on the real culprit -– Saddam. To support these claims, the writer quotes uninformed Iraqi citizens who are only fed the Saddam propaganda in a country with government-controlled media and quotes officials from the U.N., which is always critical of the U.S. though we are always the first nation they run to when they need American assistance, especially money. This article is just part of the agenda of worldwide Leftists that constantly bash America, including 10% of the U.S.’s own population that has been also doing it since 9-11. They simply refuse to see that the vast majority of our military operations have saved countless lives and made the world a safer -– though not perfect –- place the past 60-plus years.

    Those that make these visceral arguments against the U.S. ignore the fact that no nation or civilization in the history of this planet has possessed the military and economic might that the U.S. has, and used this power and strength to do so much good for the world instead of oppressing and conquering other nations. There are certainly many African nations where colonialism by other countries devastated their civilizations and their people economically, culturally and health-wise. But they seem to get a pass, whereas the U.S. is criticized for waging necessary wars to protect the greater good. Other than the necessary dropping of atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki during WWII, which probably saved millions of American (and Japanese) lives, does anybody truly think that the U.S. bombs civilians of other nations on purpose? I think our military operations in Afghanistan, where U.S. special forces officers were put into dangerous situations on the ground in an attempt to conduct more precision bombing raids and prevent Afghan civilian deaths, answers that question. We know that some despots and evil-doers (Saddam, bin Laden, Milosevic, Hitler, etc.) regularly target(ed) civilians, so the anger at the destruction this type of aggression leads to should be directed at them – not the one nation that often stands in the way of them accomplishing their malevolent and destructive plans. Unfortunately, war is imperfect and never pretty so civilians get caught in the cross-fire. U.S. civilians, like myself, don’t enjoy or revel in this fact, but we are intellectually honest enough to know that it is sometimes unavoidable.

    The U.S. is not perfect as a nation but we are still the good guys, while dictators like Saddam and his fellow totalitarian brethren (Fidel Castro, Hitler, Milosevic, Idi Amin, etc.) are/were the bad guys. The quicker people like the author of this article, who likely opposes just about any U.S. military action (no matter its necessity) sees this, the quicker we can rid the world of people like Saddam. Hopefully, by 2003, Saddam will just be a memory and the Iraqi people can build a democracy and economy where everyone has a chance to live fulfilling and healthy lives. [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img]
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    03.20.07 @ 12:01 PM
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    Whoa...somebody's passionate about this topic!

    I wasnt' putting complete blame on our country, or building mid-Easterners to be morally above us or anything like that. You may have taken some of my points the wrong way. I don't feel like quoting your whole (very long) post, but here are some retorts:

    When I said the US was 'flexing their muscle to continually push them down' I was referring necessarilly to the bombing, but mostly to the economic sanctions which have undoubtedly hurt them.

    The writer of this article didn't simply interview brainwashed citizens, or read an Iraqi paper, she went there and lived, experiencing the lives of the regular person over there. If you believe this is all a fabrication, or she greatly exaggerated their plight for some political agenda, well that's a different argument, but I don't agree with that. Just my opinion. Maybe it is all bs, but I don't think so.

    I completely agree that Saddam is the problem here, and the people need to understand that if he weren't a power hungry corrupt dictator, they would have a better life. UNFORTUNATELY they DO NOT understand this, and they WILL NOT as long as he is in power. They blame us because Saddam tells them to, and the only contact they have with us are bombings and economic deprivation. You can't blame the average Joe over there for that. They don't have internet access to look at cnn.com, they don't get invitations to UN meetings, all they get are the 'Saddam Times' news. We can't look down on these people as lifeless animals, we have to step back and realize what there life is like, why they are angry at us, and what needs to be done about it.

    I agree, we are the power in this world, and we need to exercise that responsibly. Well obviously everyone and there mother wants Saddam to kick the bucket. We should have snuffed him 10 years ago. Unfortunately we didn't, but instead have imposed harsh sanctions on Iraq, and sporadically bombed them. Unfortunately, this just hurts the people. You don't think Saddam is just sitting in his palace, getting fat and laughing, recruiting suicide bombers from the masses of people who are growing to hate us by the day?? He's using our indecisiveness against us. We should just go in now, and take him out. Not make a plan now, just do it. This bs has gone on far too long. Like I said, war games do nothing but hurt the people.

  14. #14
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    07.22.09 @ 11:11 AM
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    Originally posted by strungout:
    Whoa...somebody's passionate about this topic!
    LOL Sorry about that, strungout. This is one area I am very passionate about. I promise to make this response significantly shorter.

    Originally posted by strungout:
    I wasnt' putting complete blame on our country, or building mid-Easterners to be morally above us or anything like that. You may have taken some of my points the wrong way. I don't feel like quoting your whole (very long) post, but here are some retorts:

    When I said the US was 'flexing their muscle to continually push them down' I was referring necessarilly to the bombing, but mostly to the economic sanctions which have undoubtedly hurt them.
    Understood. But whether it was the bombings or the economic sanctions, my post above addressed how even that criticism of the U.S. is unfair and unfounded.

    Originally posted by strungout:
    The writer of this article didn't simply interview brainwashed citizens, or read an Iraqi paper, she went there and lived, experiencing the lives of the regular person over there. If you believe this is all a fabrication, or she greatly exaggerated their plight for some political agenda, well that's a different argument, but I don't agree with that. Just my opinion. Maybe it is all bs, but I don't think so.

    I completely agree that Saddam is the problem here, and the people need to understand that if he weren't a power hungry corrupt dictator, they would have a better life. UNFORTUNATELY they DO NOT understand this, and they WILL NOT as long as he is in power. They blame us because Saddam tells them to, and the only contact they have with us are bombings and economic deprivation. You can't blame the average Joe over there for that. They don't have internet access to look at cnn.com, they don't get invitations to UN meetings, all they get are the 'Saddam Times' news. We can't look down on these people as lifeless animals, we have to step back and realize what there life is like, why they are angry at us, and what needs to be done about it.
    I believe the writer does have a political agenda, but that’s only part of my problem with the article and her opinions. I don’t believe what she said she saw and what the Iraqi people said to her was fabricated whatsoever. A matter of fact, I agree with practically everything you posted in this section, as some of this was in my earlier post. Saddam is the problem and is brainwashing his citizens into thinking the U.S. is at fault.

    As far as looking down at those “people as lifeless animals,” you will NEVER hear me say that. That’s why I’ve always supported the patrolling of the no-fly zones to protect innocent Kurds and Shiites, and it’s why I support the liberation of all Iraqis by overthrowing Saddam. Then, after Saddam is gone and there is some investment in the country by some of the G-8 nation governments and businesses, the standard of living and quality of life will rise significantly among the Iraqi people. [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img]

    Originally posted by strungout:
    I agree, we are the power in this world, and we need to exercise that responsibly. Well obviously everyone and there mother wants Saddam to kick the bucket. We should have snuffed him 10 years ago. Unfortunately we didn't, but instead have imposed harsh sanctions on Iraq, and sporadically bombed them. Unfortunately, this just hurts the people. You don't think Saddam is just sitting in his palace, getting fat and laughing, recruiting suicide bombers from the masses of people who are growing to hate us by the day?? He's using our indecisiveness against us. We should just go in now, and take him out. Not make a plan now, just do it. This bs has gone on far too long. Like I said, war games do nothing but hurt the people.
    I completely agree that we should’ve taken Saddam out during the Gulf War, but hindsight is 20-20. The first Bush Administration, military officials and intelligence agencies underestimated the staying power of Saddam after the Gulf War and overestimated the strength and abilities of the internal forces in Iraq that opposed Saddam. Nonetheless, I think the second Bush Administration will take care of this problem – or at least they better if he wants to win reelection. GWB has given everyone the expectation that Saddam’s days were numbered, so if he doesn’t follow through, he’s pretty much asking to be a one-termer. Nonetheless, I think he will follow through. Then when there is a free and democratic Iraq, I think you’ll see a significant positive impact on many other Arab nations in the region, including the lessening of hostilities and anger against America in the Arab street. [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img]
    "Seems the old folks who come up short were the pretty little kids who didn't want it, no." - Van Halen (1979)

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    03.20.07 @ 12:01 PM
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    I'm pretty sure that pressure from Saudi Arabia was the main reason we didn't go for a full scale invasion of Iraq 10 years ago. I read somewhere that they were real bitches about it, and made some kind of deal with us about it. Anyways, that's past, but I find it hard to believe that if the Bush (jr) administration really wanted to overthrow him, we wouldn't have done it by now. Seriously, what are they waiting for??? I won't get any easier. It's already come out in public that we have plans for it, so Saddam knows it. But I'm sure he's known it for 10 years now. What the hell are we waiting for???? Something ain't right here. Our government has so many alterior motives and secret agendas, it's tough to trust them all of the time. I don't really know where I'm going with this, but the more I think about our governments' public comments/promises, etc, the more disenchanted I get with them.

 

 

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