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  1. #1
    carpe damn diem billy007's Avatar
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    12.18.17 @ 05:32 AM
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    School sure has changed since I was a kid - what's up with that? I've got a kid in kindergarten and fourth grade, and they both get homework! Shoot, I don't remember getting homework until maybe 5th grade, definitely not before fourth. To me, the best person to teach is a teacher. If I was qualified to teach, maybe I'd be a teacher! How am I supposed to help them with this stuff? The one who is in fourth, last year he'd bring math stuff home but they were talking about different kinds of numbers - can't even remember what they were called now. Or like, they'll have to add 20 and 2 and say well, I've got 2 tens and 2 ones and all that - when I need to add 20 and 2, I add 20 and 2 - I don't need to think about it or break it down or stuff like that - all this terminology based stuff should be done in the classroom. My kindergartener, they're trying to teach him to read already - a noble concept, but maybe, I don't know, his first year of formal education should be spent on developing skills of regiment, paying attention and following directions? I don't remember learning to read in kindergarten, and I read quite well, thank you. And as I said, he gets homework! I went to school half day when I was in kindergarten, and we managed to get all of our business taken care of at school, he goes a full day - why should he have stuff to bring home? I have no patience for teaching. In the few occasions where I've had jobs requiring training another individual, I'd get frustrated close to the point of wanting to be able to fire the person myself (but then I'd probably have had to cover their shifts, too). Why are these teachers expecting me to be able to teach at home? I don't think it's because their classes are too big - looking at the list of names, they look as big or even smaller than some of my classes were, and they have teaching assistants - I don't remember my teachers having assistants. Are they trying to push these kids too far too fast? My goodness, the older one comes home with some math problems that the only way I could figure to solve them was to use Algebra - we didn't have Algebra until high school! I don't know why they have to push them on this stuff - they've got the same stuff to learn as we did and the same amount of time. The only thing they might need a head start on is history, 'cause there's more of it now. And what's up with these book bags - they all gotta have a damn book bag - I think it's required by law or something, gives you someplace to keep your weapon. We didn't have any need for bookbags - the only books I brought home were the ones I borrowed from the library because I liked to read - when I started getting homework in middle school I carried my books home under my arm like everyone else did. And what does a boy kid do for a girl kid now, anyway - offer to carry her bookbag for her? Aw, shucks! And then these damn parents get their kids bookbags with wheels on them - look like their spending a weekend in Vegas or something - no wonder our kids are soft, man. Frickin' bookbags with wheels! No, we covered our books and we carried our books and it didn't matter if it was rainin' or snowin' or whatever, that's what we did. I remember dropping 'em a time or two and having the papers blowing all over the road, but hey, that's when you get smart and build pouches in your bookcovers to keep 'em in. No trapper-keepers or organizers or any of that - you thought for yourself and found your own solutions. I don't know, I know we have some educational professionals that post here, I'd like your thoughts - is this kindergarten/homework thing happening all over, or just here? Bottom line is, teachers should do the teaching - if they can't get the work done at school, maybe they have too much. Or maybe you just need to get rid of snack time - who the hell you teaching - Scooby and Shaggy? What the hell they need a snack for? My older kid comes home with bottles of Fruitopia in his damn book bag. They have vending machines there! We had a damn water fountain and if we got thirsty, that's what we drank. These kids think we're made of money 'cause the school's out there, buy this, buy that - 'course you put a vending machine in front of young kids they're gonna wanna use it! No need for that. Oh, and the pictures, they're always asking for pictures - never telling you you ain't getting 'em back in one piece. He asked for pictures once so I gave 'em to 'em - come back all glued in a book! If I'd known they were going to do that, I would've gone and made copies for 'em. Now I have a scanner, and that's what they get - the scanned, printed on regular paper pictures. Ain't wiping out my photo albums for school.
    Anyway, I'm old and occasionally I need to let off some steam and rant at things that bug me, and well, this stuff bugs me, but I've had my rant now!

  2. #2
    Unchained jetm's Avatar
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    11.16.17 @ 07:10 PM
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    Donor

    Wow.

    Anyways, without knowing your specific situation and your school district, I can only speak generally.

    I totally agree that homework is something that should be used to support the learning concept, especially at that young of an age. The problem is not necessarily a local one though. Again, without knowing the state of Florida's standard requirements, at least in Pennsylvania, there are so many changes and additions mandated by the state legislature that it becomes almost impossible to accomplish everything they require within the short time frame given.

    As long as the number of standards imposed by the state upon the local school systems keep increasing without the resources to support those increases, don't look for the problem to get any better.

    For example, here in Pennsylvania, here is a sample of SOME of the standards set for the end of 3rd grade:

    Recognize, describe, extend, create and replicate a variety of patterns including attribute, activity, number, and geometric patterns.

    Use concrete objects and symbols to model the concepts of variables, expressions, equations and inequalities.

    Form and justify an opinion on whether a given statement is reasonable based on a comparison to data.

    etc, etc, etc...... and it goes on and on....

    There is just so much imposed upon the classroom teacher at an earlier and earlier age that it almost becomes impossible to fulfill the state requirements without the outside classroom practice. It sucks! But sometimes the reason is not necessarily a local problem.

  3. #3
    Good Enough ScottRoberts's Avatar
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    04.05.12 @ 09:06 AM
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    Donor

    That's one long-ass paragraph, Billy.

    I, for one, remember getting homework in the second grade. Granted it was "light" homework; mostly schoolwork I couldn't get finished in the classroom, like the last 15 problems of a 40-problem math assignment, or whatever. And I knew how to read when I was three. [img]tongue.gif[/img]
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  4. #4
    Atomic Punk MikeL's Avatar
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    03.03.15 @ 08:31 PM
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    Donor

    Things have changed, haven't they?

    I'm 26, and rarely remember bringing any homework home in grade school. Maybe in 5th grade it started up.

    I work for the school district. My mother works as a para in one of the grade schools here. Some of the things I see or hear about simply amaze me.

    Teachers are lazy! I've come to have a very dim view of that profession. They care more about their union than they do about their students. If we have a potentially dangerous day out in the parking lot (due to ice/weather) the teachers refuse to help get the kids safely on the buses after school. They can't take 15 minutes out of their day after school to help keep things safe--all because their union contracts specify "prep" time then. Principals hold no power to direct their staffs. As soon as they do, a union grievance is filed!

    Technology is terribly misused in our schools. Teachers always want more computers, yet rarely know how to use the computers they already have! Our school district offers a plethora of computer courses tailored to teachers for free. All that is required is that a teacher have the desire to learn, and take an hour a week to attend the courses. For some reason most of them don't do this (laziness) and instead continue to make the same stupid mistakes day in and day out, increasing our support costs. They can't even bring themselves to write down their email passwords.

    They take kindergarten students down to the labs, and expect them to be able to sit down and start using the computers. How the hell can you use a menu if you can't read?? They skip right over the basics, like how to use a mouse or even what a computer is and head right to the internet to look for animal pictures. How fucking dumb is that?

    Those are the things that go on in elementry schools today. I think it's brought on by two things: low salaries and the pressures of standardized testing.

    Teachers simply aren't paid well. The best and the brightest individuals do not go into teaching, generally speaking. If we want better teachers in our schools, we've got to pay salaries that attract better individuals to the field.

    Politics has brought ridiculous standardized testing to our schools. Teachers are rated in part on the performance of their students on these tests. Because of this, they teach to the test. They focus on it at the expense of real-world problem solving skills. We aren't teaching our children to think. This is why kids get so much homework at such young ages.

    That's some of the stuff that goes on in a middle-class suburban grade school. Can you imagine what happens in schools that aren't as well funded?

    I work primarily with adult education programs. The teachers and staff I work with are pretty decent people. There's a huge contrast between them and the elementry teachers.

    [ February 12, 2002 at 12:02 PM: Message edited by: MikeL ]</p>

  5. #5
    Eruption BigBadBrian's Avatar
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    08.12.10 @ 07:15 AM
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    My son's in 7th grade and is doing math I was doing in 9th grade, and I was in an advanced program at the time. He likes to look on when I do my calculus homework (I'm back in school, also).

    My youngest daughter just turned three and can read quite a few words and simple sentences with those same words in them.

    Things are different now days, mostly for the better I think. People and school boards got tired of hearing in the news how Japanese and other kids could kick our ass in math and science.
    "Tardy? I don't feel tardy!"

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  6. #6
    Hang 'Em High Stuff No More's Avatar
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    01.08.05 @ 11:08 AM
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    Originally posted by billy007:
    I don't remember learning to read in kindergarten, and I read quite well, thank you.
    I could read an entire year before I started kindergarten. There's no reason not to teach (or attempt to teach) your kids to read early. It makes for more advanced, smarter, and yes, more intelligent adults. At their age their brain is still developing and can grasp this stuff quicker than they can as older little people.

    Growing up I found that everything I needed to learn my parents taught me about a year before the education system did. Honestly, schools don't go far enough in my opinion. Kids should be exposed to algebra before high school. Kids should be taught a foreign language while their brains are in the stage that picks up languages easily.

    The bottom line is what passes for education standards in the US is rediculously poor and always has been. But hey, whattado, huh?
    "Just once I'd like to do the right thing and not get punished for it."

  7. #7
    carpe damn diem billy007's Avatar
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    12.18.17 @ 05:32 AM
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    That's true for the testing - seems the older one spends more time working on FCAT than he does normal stuff. They must've hated me on those standardised tests as I got older - I got so bored with them I'd use the little dots to spell "KISS" or make skulls 'n crossbones, maybe even the old VH thing!

    As for kids learning to read, if they can learn young that's great, but not every child has that opportunity. The oldest and youngest child went to daycare where they were taught some basics and I have no doubts that by the time jack007 is ready for kindergarten he will be a wiz at it. However, the middle child wasn't able to go as much and so he's a little behind - he shouldn't be penalised for that. Again, it's not something I can do - I can read books forward and backward and upside down, but I have no idea how to teach someone else to do the same. So where was he s'posed to learn to read?

  8. #8
    Atomic Punk MikeL's Avatar
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    03.03.15 @ 08:31 PM
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    I began learning to read before kindergarten. It was just something I picked up on. I always got angry at my kindergarten teacher. There was a boy in class who had been held back a year, and he was allowed (encouraged) to go to the library once a week and check out an easy to read book. That old hag would never let me go get a book. It didn't matter how I protested or read books aloud in class. That's a great way to educate.

    That said, I can't see teaching kindergarteners to read. They all need the same basic skill set to ready them for 1st grade. There's no point in a teacher spending time teaching reading to one or two kids when the rest of the class is still saying "D - dee!"

    If a kid is motivated and wants to do it on their own at home, that's awsome. Kindergarten isn't the place for it, however.

  9. #9
    Sinner's Swing! twonabomber's Avatar
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    12.08.16 @ 03:21 AM
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    i was also reading before kindergarten. matter of fact, i was reading so well, i didn't even go to kindergarten, started school in 1st grade. my parents say that there was no state law saying you had to go to kindergarten at the time (Michigan, around 72 or so) but i don't know how much BS that is. small school system. i remember taking "speed reading" in first grade, and having a fifth-grade reading level in second. don't ask me what happened, i'm no genius now. i hate math, didn't take any algebra courses in high school, due to vocational classes, i didn't have time. never did my homework in high school, but passed classes based on stuff done during class and test scores. homework is bullshit, i used to say. there's so much pressure on kids to do everything now, they gotta play sports, and keep up the homework, and keep up their home obligations...hell, i used to sit around the pool all summer, kids aren't even home all summer now. things have changed for the worst. let kids be kids.
    "is this a good show tonight, or fuckin' what?" - DLR, Montreal, 11/10/07

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  10. #10
    Hot For Teacher
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    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
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    well, I went to A Catholic elelmentary school, so I dunno how relative this is to the public school system.

    Being the eldest child, My mother didn't know that by Pre-k at a catholic elementary school (they required Pre-K) I was suppose ot be albe to write, read and do math. I was the last in my class for everything. I didn't even know shapes or colors. We got homework, but it was coloring, learning how to use scissors, and practicing how to tie our shoes. We did math and reading in class.

    By Kindergarden, we started getting reading and math assignments for homework and had tests on what words rhyme and vocabulary/spelling.

    First grade we learned how to write in script and did simple math, just adding and subtracting. Second grade was used to improve our writing skills.
    third grade we learned multiplication and division.

    Fourth grade was when hell began. the fourth and fifth grades would switch classrooms so we had two teachers. they told the parents that they consulted each other on what HW they gave so that we wouldn't have more than an hour's worth of work. If we spent longer, then we weren't doing our work in class and the parents should beat down on us. Of course they didn't tell each other and I had more work then than I do now in college! I would sit at 4 after a small break from 3 until then and start my hw. have another small break for dinner at 6-6:30, and then did more work until about 11. (no wonder I didn't become big in VH until 6th grade, eh?)

    the problem? they didn't teach us. they had kids read straight from the book. Do you know what it's like for slowest reader in the class to read word-for word out of the textbook something oyu were assigned to read the night before? [img]graemlins/sleep.gif[/img]

    6th, 7th, and 8th were livable except for the bookreports, diaramamas, and poster projects that were used just to decorate the walls.

    And all the math I learned in 6th, 7th, and 8th? Learned all over again in high school.

    DO i think they push kids hard today? Looking at what my brother does.........yes!
    The pessimist says the cup is half empty. The optimist says it's half full. The pragmatist says its liquid contents are at 50% capacity. The ironist says its half full of air. The plumber says the cup must be leaking. George Carlin says the cup is too big. The Starbucks employee says its so you have room for cream. The conspiracy theorist says aliens took the other half. The baseball player says his cup is definitely full. MacGuyver says he can build a powerful explosive with it. The psychoanalyst says the cup is your mother. The punk sitting next to you also says the cup is your mother. The romance novelist says the cup is a willing receptacle to the wild gushing torrents of pure passion from the hard chiseled urn. The zen master says There is no cup. Pamela Anderson says her cups are definitely full. Me? Refill!

  11. #11
    Good Enough
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    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
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    wow, hil, you never told me that..

    We started simple math in 1st grade, i can't even remember 1st grade. and we learned how to spell, write, and stuff. i wasn't bad at math until 3rd grade. i was like a wiz in 2nd grade. 1-4 grade i never had friends until 4th. everyone thought i was a freak, i don't know why, maybe its because of my name..

    5th grade, we learned a lot of fractions, and decimals and stuff.

    6th grade.(current grade) i hardly know my basic multiplication facts, and division and we are working on fractions and reducing fractions, decimals.. and the girl who sits by me, her name is Sarah (one of the populars) gave me pep talk because i was crying because i never get anything, and they always go so fast. and so today she started tutoring me. its good so far. but i feel like i'm in an isolated office and there are homework papers piling up on the desk. [img]graemlins/scared.gif[/img]

    JUNIOR HIGH, i'm not there yet but the teachers talk like its somewhere where the devil lives. and then people says i'm going to meet so many boys and have fun... ??
    This is home, this is Mean Street!<br /><br /><b><br />Then one year you find ten years have gotten behind, no one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun. - Pink Floyd, Time</b><br /><br />"Everyone knows that Van Halen with Roth is the only real Van Halen."- Mike Tramp<br /><br /><a href="http://www.vhforums.com/vhlforum/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=12;t=001366&p=66#00 1635" target="_blank"> OBEY THE DFK!!</a>

  12. #12
    Sinner's Swing! twonabomber's Avatar
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    12.08.16 @ 03:21 AM
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    they're just trying to scare you. no one is going to hold you back from going to junior high. after 5 years in the same building, they want you out of there, on to junior high you go. at least that's the way it was when i grew up. same with 8th grade to high school, get out of here, we're tired of you...
    "is this a good show tonight, or fuckin' what?" - DLR, Montreal, 11/10/07

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  13. #13
    Unchained
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    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
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    Elementary- grades1-3= occasional/rare homework
    Grades 4-5= A little more frequent
    Grades 6- start loadng it on
    As a freshmen in high school I always get a lot of homework.
    "There's a time and place for everything- for everyone."

  14. #14
    Baluchitherium Lead Synth's Avatar
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    02.22.16 @ 08:29 AM
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    Donor

    Originally posted by billy007:
    And what does a boy kid do for a girl kid now, anyway - offer to carry her bookbag for her?
    Yes.

    I learned to read when I was 3, and I've had a backpack since kindergarten. There's nothing wrong with that. But I remember having the same one for a few years, and I complained to my dad that I wanted a new backpack. He said he never even had a backpack until college. That shut me up.

  15. #15
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    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
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    LOL! Now think of it as a new perspective on training parents on the new world phonics [img]smile.gif[/img] you
    might learn something new...kids these days are brighter, they are reading before kindergarten if the parents take the time to read to them nightly before bed.My son has been reading since age 4
    and he can do multiplication/division already and hes in 2nd! Computer wizards now that each class from K-5 have desktops and get this....laptops too! They are required to pass the MCAS test now in 10th grade or they will not graduate! So no more just pushing them through till graduation so that when they get out they can't read, write etc.
    Great idea although there were questions on the mcas that were answered correctly by students yet marked wrong. You think book bags with wheels are bad? Have you seen the amount of books these kids have to take home everyday never mind the size of them. These books weigh 40lbs! They are not supppose to weigh more than 20lbs! Wait till they get to college, you better start saving for that laptop now 'cause some colleges it is a requirement upon entering! Parents need to be involved in their childrens studies, it shows that you care about how good/bad they are doing and that you are there to help. So pick up a pencil and review the homework with your child, let them know you care!
    Reading is good

    [ February 12, 2002 at 04:41 PM: Message edited by: Tracy ]</p>

 

 

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