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  1. #1
    Good Enough Van Gully's Avatar
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    09.04.17 @ 05:32 AM
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    Wisdom is needed here; one who understands can calculate the number of the beast, for it is a number that stands for a person. His number is six hundred and sixty-six.

    Revelation Ch. 13, Verse 18

    [img]smilies/devil.gif[/img] [img]smilies/devil.gif[/img]

    In the begining
    Good always over overpowered the evils
    Of all man's sins...
    But in time
    The nations grew weak
    And our cities fell to slums
    While evil stood strong...
    In the dusts of hell
    Lurked the blackest of hates
    For he whom they feared
    Awaited them...
    Now many many lifetimes later
    Lay destroyed, beaten, beaten down,
    Only the corpses of rebels
    Ashes of dreams
    And blood stained-stained streets...
    It has been written
    "Those who have the youth
    Have the future"
    So come now, children of the beast
    Be strong
    And Shout at the Devil

    "In The Begining"
    Motley Crue


    My 666th post. Sorry DIF the devil made me do it. [img]smilies/devil.gif[/img] [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] [img]smilies/devil.gif[/img]
    "Gully, watch yourself. I am dead serious." - Brett Norton, Emperor of VHLinks.com

  2. #2
    Eruption Steven B's Avatar
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    12.12.17 @ 03:22 PM
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    On my scalp, just above the hairline, I have a birthmark or something that says 6 6 6.

    Is that a bad thing? [img]smilies/confused.gif[/img]

  3. #3
    Baluchitherium
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    09.15.15 @ 08:40 AM
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    shit, i thought you were talking about the iron maiden tune... it rocks [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

  4. #4
    Imperial Fascist Overlord Down In Flames's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Van Gully:
    Wisdom is needed here <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Yeah, by the looks of it... [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]
    http://www.vhlinks.com/vbforums/images/avatars/michael3.jpg

    "You are the McCarthy of this board. The witch burner." - strungout, on yours truly

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    "If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can hire..."

  5. #5
    Hang 'Em High Stuff No More's Avatar
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    01.08.05 @ 11:08 AM
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    Well now, the only thing that detracts from that post, VG, is 666 isn't the number for the [img]smilies/devil.gif[/img], it's the numeric equivalent of the name Nero Caesar, the Roman Emperor that heavily pursecuted the early Christians (ah, Rome sure looks beautiful by the light of the burning Christians, right Nero?).

    There was a common fear among Christians at the time that Nero either wasn't really dead, or would come back from the dead. As such, "John" wrote him into Revelation to show that ultimately God and Jesus would overcome "The Beast," and that the Christians had nothing to fear from Nero.

    It's a book about hope, man. Not about Satan or the end of the world.
    "Just once I'd like to do the right thing and not get punished for it."

  6. #6
    Good Enough Van Gully's Avatar
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    09.04.17 @ 05:32 AM
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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Stuff No More:
    Well now, the only thing that detracts from that post, VG, is 666 isn't the number for the [img]smilies/devil.gif[/img], it's the numeric equivalent of the name Nero Caesar, the Roman Emperor that heavily pursecuted the early Christians (ah, Rome sure looks beautiful by the light of the burning Christians, right Nero?).

    Allright someone wants to talk religion.

    I'm aware of how Nero's name is the equivalent to 666. For all youse who are unaware the Hebrew alphabet(well, at least the ancient one ) has numerical equivalents for it's letters. There are other individuals throughout history who's names also corresponded to 666. Matter of fact at FORD's web-site he had an article about how George W. name corresponds to 666.

    There was a common fear among Christians at the time that Nero either wasn't really dead, or would come back from the dead. As such, "John" wrote him into Revelation to show that ultimately God and Jesus would overcome "The Beast," and that the Christians had nothing to fear from Nero.

    So, what your saying is that the Anti-Christ is not real and never will be, and that Jesus is not the Messiah? So, Christians have been fooling themselves all this time? Waiting for Christ's return is not going to happen because "The Beast" lived about 2,000 years ago and, thus, is no longer a threat? So, did Jesus come back to end his(Nero) reign and it just didn't get written down?


    It's a book about hope, man. Not about Satan or the end of the world.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I agree it is a book about hope. But I disagree about it not having anything to do about Satan and the end of the world(and the begining of a new one).
    "Gully, watch yourself. I am dead serious." - Brett Norton, Emperor of VHLinks.com

  7. #7
    Atomic Punk Wolfman's Avatar
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    07.20.17 @ 03:43 PM
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    The number 6 is equated with worldliness in the Bible, and the number 666 was used to represent the "unholy trinity" formed by the antichrist. At least, that's the way I always understood it.

  8. #8
    Damage your reputation seenbad's Avatar
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    11.30.17 @ 06:15 PM
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    Donor

    quote:
    Originally posted by Steven B:
    On my scalp, just above the hairline, I have a birthmark or something that says 6 6 6.

    Is that a bad thing? [img]smilies/confused.gif[/img]




    Ha hah hah ha. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
    sheepa latta peepah dabba looka foh a moopy

    Gunter glieben glauchen globen

  9. #9
    Eruption
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    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
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    Hey all you tree-huggin' hippies, don't forget about Ronald Wilson Reagan bein' the Antichrist! [img]smilies/devil.gif[/img]
    LIGHT 'EM UP!! <br />Smoke 'em if you got 'em!<br /><br /><a href="http://vhstrungout.com" target="_blank">StrungOut</a> Administrator<br /><a href="http://ClassicVanHalen.com" target="_blank">ClassicVH</a> / <a href="http://diamonddavidleeroth.com" target="_blank">Diamond Dave</a> Moderator

  10. #10
    Hang 'Em High Stuff No More's Avatar
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    01.08.05 @ 11:08 AM
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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Van Gully:
    I disagree about it not having anything to do about Satan and the end of the world(and the begining of a new one).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Well VG, it's like this. Take a look at the other Apocolyptic writing styles of the same period. For example, the Book of Daniel. You'll notice Revelation steals a LOT of it's material from other places. It's not like "John" had visions about these things, he just did some creative editing to recast the tale in a light the early Christians could understand.

    Case in point 1: The vision of Jesus at the beginning of the book has a lot of interesting symbols, of which is one where he is (and I don't have the text so bear with me) holding the stars (or was it the planets?) in his hand. The item in his hand was a symbol of Rome back in the day - hence, "John" was showing that Jesus holds Rome in the palm of his hand - he has more power than Rome ever will.

    Case in Point 2: Armeggedon. Is it the battle that will end the world? Nope, it's a mountain in the Middle East. Seriously, the Hebrew translation has it as something like Har Megiddo, or the Mountain of Megiddo. Acheologists have found the ruins of a city there that had been destroyed and rebuilt an insane number of times. Also, if you look at ancient trade routes, they all passed right through Megiddo. Hence, "John" uses it as the "center of the world."

    Another popular misconception: The 4 horsemen were sent by God, not by Satan, in the book.

    Now, as for your comment about Jesus and the beast, keep in mind that during the years just after Jesus' life, all his followers were convinced his return was going to happen in their lifetime. Paul himself advocated not marrying and engaging in sexual relations because there were more important things to do in the little time they had left. So it only makes sense that a book written in that time would consider the world's end coming in their lifetime.

    Apocalyptic writing is always very symbolic and not very literal. Broad connections can be made to the life of people at the time. Don't believe me? How about watching some modern apocalyptic works - Star Wars Ep 4-6, the Running Man, the Shawshank Redemption. There is a LOT of symbolism in those stories that can be connected to things happening in the world of the day.

    Of course, that is not to say "Satan" didn't show up in Revelation. The Beast was aligned with the Whore of Babylon (Rome), and they served the Dragon (Satan).

    Hence, Nero and his "whore" were about the works of the devil. See, it makes sense.

    Next time I'll have to bring my books on Revelation so I can point out some more concrete things about the book that step away from the, "Prophecy of the end of the world," and towards the, "Propeganda for a persecuted people," side.
    "Just once I'd like to do the right thing and not get punished for it."

  11. #11
    Good Enough Van Gully's Avatar
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    09.04.17 @ 05:32 AM
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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Stuff No More:
    Well VG, it's like this. Take a look at the other Apocolyptic writing styles of the same period. For example, the Book of Daniel. You'll notice Revelation steals a LOT of it's material from other places. It's not like "John" had visions about these things, he just did some creative editing to recast the tale in a light the early Christians could understand.

    Well, we could debate if John actually had these visions or he just took previous writings and slammed them together 'till we're blue in the face. What it all comes down too , the so-called experts included, is that nobody knows for sure. So, I guess it's all left up to your individual faith.


    Case in point 1: The vision of Jesus at the beginning of the book has a lot of interesting symbols, of which is one where he is (and I don't have the text so bear with me) holding the stars (or was it the planets?) in his hand. The item in his hand was a symbol of Rome back in the day - hence, "John" was showing that Jesus holds Rome in the palm of his hand - he has more power than Rome ever will.

    Revelation, Ch. 1, Verse 16.

    In his right hand he held seven stars. A sharp two-edge sword came out of his mouth, and his face shone like the sun at its brightest.

    Granted it is symbolism but there's symbolism throughout the Bible not just the apocalyptic books. It's just a technique to get a point across to people. But it does not detract from truth. Symbolism is a vehicle used to help people to see the truth or what is being prophesied.


    Case in Point 2: Armeggedon. Is it the battle that will end the world? Nope, it's a mountain in the Middle East. Seriously, the Hebrew translation has it as something like Har Megiddo, or the Mountain of Megiddo. Acheologists have found the ruins of a city there that had been destroyed and rebuilt an insane number of times. Also, if you look at ancient trade routes, they all passed right through Megiddo. Hence, "John" uses it as the "center of the world."

    I saw a documentry on this within the past couple of years. Dude it's all speculation. They don't know for sure. They make some educated guesses but I wouldn't take it as gospel(pun intended). Saying this is what John meant is kind of a slippery slope. How do you know that's why he used it for his "center of the world." Again they can only speculate.


    Another popular misconception: The 4 horsemen were sent by God, not by Satan, in the book.

    I know this. But thanks for bringing it up I'm sure they're people out there reading this that had that misconception.

    Now, as for your comment about Jesus and the beast, keep in mind that during the years just after Jesus' life, all his followers were convinced his return was going to happen in their lifetime. Paul himself advocated not marrying and engaging in sexual relations because there were more important things to do in the little time they had left. So it only makes sense that a book written in that time would consider the world's end coming in their lifetime.

    What I brought up was if the "Beast" already existed then we must ASSume a few things. 1) Jesus already came back and we all(our ancestors) missed the boat.
    2) Jesus isn't coming back because he already returned and left.
    3)If all the end time books in the Bible are pure symbolism and they are never coming true then Christians have been living a pipe dream for the past 2,000 years.
    4) If point 3 is correct then all practicing Chritians should drop their belief because it was never real.


    I, myself, do believe the Revelation writings have yet to transpire. For it to be nothing but symbolism and allegory is saying all the pain and suffering the apostles went through, after Jesus's death and rebirth, was for nothing. I don't believe all these apostles put themselves through this type of hardship and persecution unless they really saw/experienced something that cemented their believes. Almost all, if not all, the apostles themselves were eventually put to death because of their faith. At any time they could have back down and said "yeah, we made this shit up just to cause some trouble and gain some power. None of the things Jesus did were true. It was all hype." But they didn't. They died for what they believed. Thus, I have to take what they are trying to get across to us literally. Not necessarily the descriptions but their basic meanings. And to say that they wrote this stuff in trying times is true. But to say they did to help give their people hope at that time I find difficult to fathom. Most people, at that time, were illiterate. How could they read these inspiring writings? I'm sure they had some that could read to the others but was this the best way to reach the masses? I personally think it was written for a future age when literacy rate would be higher and thus, the word would get out to more people. Just my humble opinion though.


    Apocalyptic writing is always very symbolic and not very literal. Broad connections can be made to the life of people at the time. Don't believe me? How about watching some modern apocalyptic works - Star Wars Ep 4-6, the Running Man, the Shawshank Redemption. There is a LOT of symbolism in those stories that can be connected to things happening in the world of the day.

    Of course, that is not to say "Satan" didn't show up in Revelation. The Beast was aligned with the Whore of Babylon (Rome), and they served the Dragon (Satan).

    Hence, Nero and his "whore" were about the works of the devil. See, it makes sense.

    Next time I'll have to bring my books on Revelation so I can point out some more concrete things about the book that step away from the, "Prophecy of the end of the world," and towards the, "Propeganda for a persecuted people," side.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I wouldn't say they are concrete things my friend. In the end it's all opinion and speculation.

    [ April 06, 2001 at 01:45 PM: Message edited by: Van Gully ]
    "Gully, watch yourself. I am dead serious." - Brett Norton, Emperor of VHLinks.com

  12. #12
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    I am not a religious person, but going to a Catholic university meant I had to take a couple theology classes. One thing I learned that almost NOBODY seems to know is that "The" Book of Revelation is actually one of about 400 such books, and that one in the Bible is simply the one chosen by whomever. (King James perhaps? I can't recall).

    Considering that it is NOT a unique book, I imagine that its contents are not as prophetic as some would believe.

    Just thought I'd throw that in, not that it really has any bearing on the topic at hand.

    [ April 06, 2001 at 01:50 PM: Message edited by: AbeVanHalen ]
    Don't bark at me...<b>I</b> didn't name ya.

  13. #13
    Atomic Punk MikeL's Avatar
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    03.03.15 @ 08:31 PM
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    Donor

    The degree of sybolism and lack of specifics in certain books of the Bible make them adaptable to just about any historical era. Where as the past few decades everyone was sure that certain things pointed to the millenium, in the past I'm sure they pointed to other things. Just as in the future their symbolic meaning will change to fit yet another situation.

    These books are all about hope, as that is what religions seem to be based on. To me, anyway. Faith adapts to circumstances.

  14. #14
    Niners Fan! SactoFan's Avatar
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    Donor

    This thread puts me in mind of something I think about all the time...It ain't ALL knowledge of the Book that matters...it's the faith that powers your beliefs...I'm glad I believe...It doesn't make the Bible make sense all the time, but faith is a great tool for discernment...It's so hard for us to abandon ourselves to the fact that there is something bigger that we don't and can't comprehend...A God that loves and forgives and wants a relationship with you seems too good to be true...but it's not... [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]
    Can't stop...addicted to the shindig...

  15. #15
    Atomic Punk MikeL's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SactoFan:
    It's so hard for us to abandon ourselves to the fact that there is something bigger that we don't and can't comprehend...A God that loves and forgives and wants a relationship with you seems too good to be true...but it's not... [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    For some reason I'm feeling like a puppy right now. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

 

 

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