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  1. #1
    carpe damn diem billy007's Avatar
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    12.18.17 @ 05:12 AM
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    All right, so in the public vs. private school thread, we got a bit off topic with the whole homosexuality thing, and I don't really want to get that whole deal fired up again, but one part that really bugged me was when strungout (I think it was strungout, pretty sure it was strungout...) brought up that scientists had observed homosexuality in animals, and I was busy at the time and when I came back the whole debate had been kind of wrapped up so I didn't really want to get it back going into that, but still, I'd like to know who the fuck these scientists are and how in the fuck they determined that animals were homosexual? Was there a "gay pride" parade in the forest that I missed (maybe it was all the Disney animals in the parades during "gay days" at Walt Disney World!)? Did they find some myna birds talking with a lisp? Maybe a zebra had recoloured his stripes to a rainbow pattern? Birds warbling show tunes? How can you tell if an animal is gay? Certainly they can't "come out" and declare their homosexuality - last I checked, the majority of the members of the animal kingdom didn't talk (and those that did pretty much just repeated what they heard). How can they tell? Maybe an animal exhibited some homosexual type behaviour, but that doesn't mean anything, just as with humans, just because something or someone acts gay doesn't mean they are gay. Milton Berle and Flip Wilson used to frequently don womens clothing - I don't think either one of them were gay (or were they?). So how can they tell? Is this what our research dollars are going to? Lord knows we have enough things that we need answers to and solutions for - cancer, AIDS, racism, the Tampa Bay Devil Rays - but whether or not animals are gay? Think not. So you can take this thread either of two ways - you can debate how animals can or cannot be gay, or you can use it to list other stupid and wasteful studies being performed by well-paid scientists the world over.

  2. #2
    Hot For Teacher
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    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
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    no they didn't hold little doggy gay pride marches, and zebras didn't paint themselves rainbow colours...

    i think what gave away their homosexuality to the scientists was animals having sex with members of the same gender. someone might want to clarify this for me but i'm pretty sure a male f**ing a male hints at homosexuality.

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    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
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    I'll have to look up the information, but I know for a fact tht I read that scientists have observed males animals attempting to have sex with other males... I believe this was documented in Africa somewhere. I will look around for the information.
    "Sorry about the mess..."<br /><br />~Han Solo Episode IV

  4. #4
    carpe damn diem billy007's Avatar
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    12.18.17 @ 05:12 AM
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    Then that would fall under the heading of the animal exhibiting homosexual behaviour, which we know doesn't mean anything. Do you think all the guys in prison that make other inmates their "bitches" means either party is a homosexual? No, it's for two reasons - 1 Prisoner A is horny and has no female orifice handy with which to achieve a sexual encounter (nor a sheep for that matter) and so chooses to use Prisoner B; and 2 it's a power thing. Same thing with a dog - a dog isn't humping your leg because he's horny, it's his way of trying to dominate you. My 10 pound dog is fixed, yet he is constantly on the ass of my 21 pound female dog - can't believe he's that horny, and he's not - it's his way of saying, "I was here first and I'm the top dog around here". If you think differently, then what do you make of the time I caught her mounting him? Again (and you can say this about my comments as well I suppose), without the animal telling the scientist what his intentions were, how can the scientist say it means the animal is a homosexual?

  5. #5
    Atomic Punk MikeL's Avatar
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    03.03.15 @ 08:31 PM
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    So let me understand your line of thinking here, Billy. A male dog humping (or trying to hump) another male dog doesn't make that dog gay. An inmate having sex with another inmate doesn't make that inmate gay.

    What, exactly, is being homosexual then? I could've sworn it was sexual contact between members of the same sex.

  6. #6
    carpe damn diem billy007's Avatar
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    12.18.17 @ 05:12 AM
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    No, it's having a sexual preference for those of the same sex - see the difference? The guy in jail would prefer a female, but he doesn't have one handy. So he takes what's available...
    If you were out in the woods somewhere, with a girl, and somehow say your pants got destroyed, but she had a spare pair - if you put those pants on, does that make you a transvestite?

  7. #7
    Atomic Punk MikeL's Avatar
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    It certainly makes you a cross-dresser, unless she happens to be one herself. [img]smile.gif[/img] You're drawing a distinction between an act and the motivations behind it. That's fine, but do you then define homosexuality as a behavior or a condition?

    If you define it as a behavior, most anyone is capable of it under the right conditions. Are you capable of having sex with another man?

  8. #8
    carpe damn diem billy007's Avatar
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    12.18.17 @ 05:12 AM
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    Physically, the stuff's all there, opportunity has been there, but overall it's nothing that I'm interested in.

  9. #9
    Atomic Punk MikeL's Avatar
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    03.03.15 @ 08:31 PM
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    Not interested because of your beliefs, or because it wasn't a physically stimulating idea? Put the morals aside, and I'm willing to bet it wasn't an appealing idea to you physically. For gay people, somehow it is.

  10. #10
    Atomic Punk Wolfman's Avatar
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    07.20.17 @ 03:43 PM
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    Originally posted by MikeL:
    So let me understand your line of thinking here, Billy. A male dog humping (or trying to hump) another male dog doesn't make that dog gay. An inmate having sex with another inmate doesn't make that inmate gay.

    What, exactly, is being homosexual then? I could've sworn it was sexual contact between members of the same sex.
    Well, I'd have to say that animals outside of the human species are a lot more impulse-driven and they don't have the norms attached to their actions that we do.

    So...in a HUMAN sense, yeah - them be some gay lil doggies.

    In an animal sense - they're just taking care of their needs. primal urges, ya know? [img]graemlins/devil.gif[/img]

    [ September 19, 2002, 09:40 PM: Message edited by: Wolfman ]

  11. #11
    carpe damn diem billy007's Avatar
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    12.18.17 @ 05:12 AM
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    Originally posted by Wolfman:
    In an animal sense - they're just taking care of their needs. primal urges, ya know? [img]graemlins/devil.gif[/img]
    Just like the animals in jail...

    And no, I was not interested physically, mentally or morally in doing whatever the other man had in mind.

  12. #12
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    03.20.07 @ 12:01 PM
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    I look at homosexuality as a behavior not a condition. I think by exhibiting any kind of homosexual behavior one can be considered 'homosexual'. The problem here is that society needs labels, and we've grown to label people by their sexuality, when it shouldn't apply to anything BUT the way they have sex.

    Sure, you don't see gay pride parades in nature (they don't need them!), but you DO see homosexual behavior, just as in humans. Of course, the lines are very blurry in nature, as a male animal might hump another male, then go get a femal pregnant. The same is true with humans. There are so many inbetweens in our race that are hard to label.

    What about full on homosexuals? I'm sure their are the same in other animal species...those who don't reproduce. You talk of scientific studies conducted that showed this? And you are angered by this? I think those studies are needed to show the bible thumpers and homophobes the evidence right in front of our noses.

    I personally believe homosexuality is a natural form of population control built in to every species. That also leads to partial explanation of why or society has a stigma against it. A small persentage of our species took a turn when we discovered agriculture, some 10,000 years ago or so, and have been on a subconscious mission to continuous expansion and growth whether or not it destroys us or the world. Constant growth and expansion was the norm and expected. Homosexuality is a threat to that, as it bears no offspring and seems to be a purposeless act. As the church took hold, they caught on to this early. Why would the church want homosexual members when they bear no offspring to bring into the church (and gain money/power from it). So obviously, homosexuality would show up as a 'sin' in the 'rule book'.

    Just as you don't see gay pride parades in nature, you don't see anti-homosexual rallies either. It's a part of each species (including our own). You can't fight nature (or god, whatever), you just accept it. That's the problem with humans. We feel we are above nature (or god, whatever), and that is what has been leading our downfall. We try to repress and fight our natural instincts, what we have been given in this world, and we are constantly struggling.

    We have been conditioned so well by the ever growing societal 'machine' for the last 10,000 years, with our fears, prejudices and hate being spread from generation to generation. Only in the last 50 years or so have you seen a large percentage of our population learn widespread acceptance of others. The church will say it is a corruption of men that we are becoming so tolerant of what they deem 'sinful'. I think that the ease at which knowledge and ideas are being spread (television, internet) has opened up a lot of peoples eyes to the world around us.

    I gotta stop responding to these posts, I write way too damn much!!

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    03.20.07 @ 12:01 PM
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    Originally posted by Wolfman:
    </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by MikeL:
    So let me understand your line of thinking here, Billy. A male dog humping (or trying to hump) another male dog doesn't make that dog gay. An inmate having sex with another inmate doesn't make that inmate gay.

    What, exactly, is being homosexual then? I could've sworn it was sexual contact between members of the same sex.
    Well, I'd have to say that animals outside of the human species are a lot more impulse-driven and they don't have the norms attached to their actions that we do.

    So...in a HUMAN sense, yeah - them be some day lil doggies.

    In an animal sense - they're just taking care of their needs. primal urges, ya know? [img]graemlins/devil.gif[/img]
    </font>[/QUOTE]You don't think we have the same primal urges? I bet ya we do!

    [ September 19, 2002, 06:25 PM: Message edited by: strungout ]

  14. #14
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    03.20.07 @ 12:01 PM
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    Originally posted by billy007:
    </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Wolfman:
    In an animal sense - they're just taking care of their needs. primal urges, ya know? [img]graemlins/devil.gif[/img]
    Just like the animals in jail...

    And no, I was not interested physically, mentally or morally in doing whatever the other man had in mind.
    </font>[/QUOTE]I can understand the physically and mentally not into it think, but morally? I can see how you have been conditioned to think this, but how is it REALLY morally bad? When I think of going against morals, I picture killing another man, stealing from my neighbor, raping a woman...not having consensual sex with someone of the same sex. While I wouldnt be physically or mentally into it, I don't see how morals fit in. Is it just because the bible says it is a sin? Is that where everyone's moral 'dilemma' comes in??

  15. #15
    Atomic Punk MikeL's Avatar
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    03.03.15 @ 08:31 PM
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    Originally posted by Wolfman:
    I'd have to say that animals outside of the human species are a lot more impulse-driven and they don't have the norms attached to their actions that we do.
    We might attach norms to our instincts, but the urges are still pretty powerful. Is it so unreasonable to believe that some people have abnormal instincts?

 

 

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