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  1. #1
    Atomic Punk FORD's Avatar
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    10.22.17 @ 08:55 PM
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    Yesterday, our so called attorney general implied that anyone who dared to question his fascist leaning tactics is "unpatriotic" and "providing ammunition to the enemies of this country"

    What the fuck??

    Freedom of speech is illegal now. What's next? Are we rushing headlong into a police state?

    Thoughts??

    [ December 07, 2001 at 03:25 PM: Message edited by: FORD ]</p>
    Eat Us And Smile

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  2. #2
    Romeo Delight
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    04.22.12 @ 05:20 AM
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    If that's what it takes to keep jets from flying into 100+ story buildings, then so be it.


    I think police state is a little extreme, dont you?


    BTW, I didnt think Ashcroft was elected?

    Crash
    We haven't had any real contact with each other there because we don't like each other, Pierre, and that makes for some very colorful sparks, all right. And I've got to admit, and got to say that it's inevitable, that there would be a reunion, it's one of the most hotly anticipated reunions in the history of the sport, OK? I wouldn't be surprised if it was relatively soon, on our lifetime while our clothing is still in style hopefully! Ya know it's like my Dad said, always told me, "Don't be humble, you're not that good." Dave, November 13, 2001

  3. #3
    Atomic Punk MikeL's Avatar
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    03.03.15 @ 08:31 PM
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    Donor

    No, he wasn't elected. That makes his policy and agenda all that much more disturbing. The people who knew him best voted for a dead man, rather than have him in elected office. Doesn't that set off some bells?

  4. #4
    Eruption jaybird's Avatar
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    12.15.17 @ 05:32 AM
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    Donor

    Ashcroft was actually appointed, not elected.

    So everybody's up in arms about infringing on somebody's rights, huh? Sigh...I guess it was just a matter of time before the Liberals starting spinning this horrible incident to make them look good.

    Infringing on someone's rights. Let's think about that. If I had a loved one who died on September 11, I might think their rights were slightly infringed also. You know, by getting killed and all that.

    Listen--right now there's thousands of kids in NYC and Washington who won't have their dad or mom at home this Christmas. Thousands of wives and husbands who struggle through every minute of every day, trying not to have a nervous breakdown. Thousands of moms and dads who wonder how many peices their precious children were torn into by the crushing weight of a tumbling skyscaper or speeding jetliner. Thousands of people who kissed someone goodbye on a normal Tuesday morning and never saw them again, wishing every minute that they had something...just one little thing they could at least bury and say goodbye to. Thousands. Thousands. Thousands.

    So don't sit there and tell ME about how seeing somebody detained for a couple of hours really makes you angry. Tell THEM. That's right--go right up to their faces and tell them how angry you are. Wave the Constitution and the flag and let them know how you feel. Because, God help you if you ever find out how THEY feel.

  5. #5
    Atomic Punk MikeL's Avatar
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    03.03.15 @ 08:31 PM
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    Donor

    Don't use the tragedy to defend Ashcroft's questionable actions.

    Sorry, but I don't feel that the government keeping track of what goes in and out of my cable modem is any of their business. All that has happened here is that the tragedy has been used to make it easier for the government to track where its citizens are, what they are doing, and what they are saying.

    This isn't about airport safety. It's about being asked for your papers and detained for a few hours, as you said Jaybird.

    There's a danger to be found when appointed officials begin to circumvent an ideal as cricitcal to our democracy as the right to privacy.

    Do you think terrorists are dumb? The changes to the government's powers have been published. They'll simply avoid them, just as they did airport security in the first place. Geesh, think it through!

  6. #6
    Unchained
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    02.12.11 @ 01:16 AM
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    I remember that shortly after the 11th, two guys purchased one-ways for a plane. A short time later 2 more guys, both supposedly mid-eastern looking, bought 2 one-ways for the same plane. Security was called but when it was taken too long to get the tickets those two men left in a hurry before security could catch them. They then found that the prior 2 guys had given false phone numbers (and I think passports) and were detained.

    I can't help but feel that had the last 2 not been singled out because of their looks, we may have had another tragedy. One could argue that this is only 2 people out of ,say, 5000 that in having their rights "violated" were caught. The other 4,998 should not have to through this. That's BS! If we would not be "singling out" or "violating rights", these 4 people could have made it on the plane and then we would have possibly lost another 3000 people.

    I guess I'm a little more open to the idea of allowing govt. or law people to look into my life. I've got nothing to hide.
    2003 and 2005 VHLinks Fantasy Baseball Champion

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  7. #7
    Atomic Punk MikeL's Avatar
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    03.03.15 @ 08:31 PM
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    Donor

    It's not about having something to hide. It's about trading freedom for security. Who ever does that soon finds himself with neither. Any idea who said that? [img]smile.gif[/img]

    No matter what we do, we're not 100% safe. Life isn't like that.

  8. #8
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    02.12.11 @ 01:16 AM
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    I can understand where you're coming from Mike. And I somewhat agree.

    I know this is kinda "comparing apples to oranges"
    but here's a personal situation. My parents house has been broken into 4 times in the last 3 months. A few others in the neighborhood have also. The police have said that they have a pretty good idea of whos4e done it, but can't do anything like search houses or "violate rights", even though they are pretty certain. They have to wait until these people slip up.
    2003 and 2005 VHLinks Fantasy Baseball Champion

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    It sure isn't quiet anymore...

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    "There's no mystical energy field that controls my destiny. It's all alot of simple tricks and nonsense." - Han Solo, Star Wars

    "wiping my ass is like trying to get peanut butter out of shag carpet." - Adam Carolla, Loveline

    "...Faith is so angelic, and Shania just is trailer trampy" -Wombat, member of VHlinks

  9. #9
    Atomic Punk FORD's Avatar
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    10.22.17 @ 08:55 PM
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    <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by MikeL:
    No, he wasn't elected. That makes his policy and agenda all that much more disturbing. The people who knew him best voted for a dead man, rather than have him in elected office. Doesn't that set off some bells?<hr></blockquote>

    That's a great point Mike! I'd forgotten all about Dead Senator Carnahan.

    BTW, I edited the topic name. You are of course correct, Asscrotch wasn't elected.

    But neither was the guy who appointed him

    I knew this guy was dangerous to America years ago when I saw him on Pat Robertson's daily sitcom "The 700 Club". I think he might actually be further to the extreme right than even Pat!!

    What's really funny is that even other right wing extremists are standing up against Asscrotch's agenda.

    When Bob Barr agrees with me on anything it has to be a crisis of earth shattering proportions. Senator Leahy had it exactly right yesterday. We can fight terrorism without the government wiping their asses on the Constitution (my paraphrase, not his). And since Senator Leahy was himself a target of the anthrax terrorism, I would think he was VERY intrested in apprehending terrorists. Of course it's highly likely that the guys who sent him that letter won't be caught by Asscrotch/Bush's unconstitutional tactics anyway, since they are "Americans" of the Tim Mc Veigh mentality, right wing extremists who take advantage of an international crisis to advance their own agenda against "liberals" in the Congress and the Media, hoping the Arabs will take the blame.
    Eat Us And Smile

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  10. #10
    Atomic Punk FORD's Avatar
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    10.22.17 @ 08:55 PM
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    <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Miah:
    I can understand where you're coming from Mike. And I somewhat agree.

    I know this is kinda "comparing apples to oranges"
    but here's a personal situation. My parents house has been broken into 4 times in the last 3 months. A few others in the neighborhood have also. The police have said that they have a pretty good idea of whos4e done it, but can't do anything like search houses or "violate rights", even though they are pretty certain. They have to wait until these people slip up.
    <hr></blockquote>

    OK, the police have a good idea who did it.....

    So let's say the police go out and arrest every single person in town who is the same race and religion as that suspect. Is your house gonna get robbed now? Perhaps not. But you just turned Springfield into the Fourth Reich in the process, detaining hundreds or thousands of law abiding people who have done nothing wrong.

    Of course, having been to Springfield before, I realize that's not much of a leap. Do those "oregon citizens alliance" pieces of shit still run that town?

    [ December 07, 2001 at 03:49 PM: Message edited by: FORD ]</p>
    Eat Us And Smile

    Welcome back, Van HALEN!!!!

    ...It's the BAND and Dave is really the cat that can front VH. He sang his ASS off and was really cool. No cheese here guys, this is filet Mignon! - Steve Lukather's comment after witnessing a Van HALEN 2007 rehearsal

    "What then is this bleating of sheep in my ears?"- 1 Samuel 15:14

  11. #11
    Unchained
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    02.12.11 @ 01:16 AM
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    Not sure how to respond Ford. I agree and disagree with ya. It's frustrating because there is no real answer to this. Kinda stuck between a rock and a hard place, so to speak. I think your scenario is a bit extreme, but freedom is complicated. Free to do what you want, just don't violate other peoples rights. And when you do, cover yourself well because we can't infringe or question anyone unless we have VERY good proof.
    I would rather give up a little bit of rights to be safe.

    By the way, I'm not saying I'm right. I'm just giving an opinion.

    So where ya from Ford? No great reason to come to Sringfield, unless you came to see the UO Ducks. Or family I guess.
    2003 and 2005 VHLinks Fantasy Baseball Champion

    "Rock & Roll, Porn, Reunion possiblities, and a cure for cancer

    It sure isn't quiet anymore...

    " -- James in New York, VHLinks member

    "There's no mystical energy field that controls my destiny. It's all alot of simple tricks and nonsense." - Han Solo, Star Wars

    "wiping my ass is like trying to get peanut butter out of shag carpet." - Adam Carolla, Loveline

    "...Faith is so angelic, and Shania just is trailer trampy" -Wombat, member of VHlinks

  12. #12
    Atomic Punk MikeL's Avatar
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    03.03.15 @ 08:31 PM
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    Donor

    <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by FORD:
    What's really funny is that even other right wing extremists are standing up against Asscrotch's agenda.<hr></blockquote>

    That's not surprising at all. There's nothing conservative about trying to decrease the protection offered to citizens through the Constitution. Jaybird tried to politicize this thing by commenting about how 'Liberals' would try to spin it, all the while using the fear, uncertainty, and doubt that everyone holds after Sept. 11th. People who consider themselves conservatives and buy that load of bullshit are just blindly following along.

    There's an incredible danger being posed to the heart of what makes America America here. That danger isn't found in nameless, faceless terrorists that may or may not exist. That threat is embodied in people like John Ashcroft, who are using this tragedy to pursue their personal ambitions and thoughts about what government should and should not be.

    Nothing is more disrespectful to the souls who parished and those that are left behind. They died having all of their rights and freedoms intact. Will we have that same satisfaction when John Ashcroft is done pursuing his agenda? Hopefully good people will step in to right his wrongs.

    In the last few months, there has been a lot of talk about what makes America great, and how enduring our freedoms are. The irony (and danger) here is that some of those same people saying that so loudly are actually working to chip away and erode those freedoms.

  13. #13
    Romeo Delight
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    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
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    <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by FORD:
    Yesterday, our so called attorney general implied that anyone who dared to question his fascist leaning tactics is "unpatriotic" and "providing ammunition to the enemies of this country"

    What the fuck??

    Freedom of speech is illegal now. What's next? Are we rushing headlong into a police state?

    Thoughts??

    [ December 07, 2001 at 03:25 PM: Message edited by: FORD ]
    <hr></blockquote>

    No, Ford, as much as I seem to disagree with you, this one concerns me the same way. The 1st Amendment is going to be laid open with blood running out because of some extremist religious fanatics. Everyone wants something done but no one
    should have to sacrifice another government intrusion. If they are watching what goes through my cable modem under the auspices of looking for terrorism plots or information, that violates the 1st and a couple more amendments. Something to do with right to privacy bothers the heck out of me, but you and I probably disagree with right to bear arms, if I'm reading you correctly. Those first ten were signed in blood and Ashcroft is doing what he can get away with, hopefully for the sake of stopping terrorism. If there are other agendas, we are all in trouble. They take my gun and someone will die taking out of my hands! If I find out someone in the government is snooping on my internet connection, all I know is to call my congressmen.
    C'mon baby, finish me!

  14. #14
    Damage your reputation seenbad's Avatar
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    12.15.17 @ 10:48 AM
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    Donor

    I can not FUCKING believe I am in agreement with BOTH(!!) MikeL AND FORD!!!! [img]graemlins/bounce.gif[/img] wooaaaahhhhh. Links history right here ladies and germs.

    [ December 07, 2001 at 06:49 PM: Message edited by: seenbad ]

    sheepa latta peepah dabba looka foh a moopy

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  15. #15
    Romeo Delight
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    04.22.12 @ 05:20 AM
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    The scary part is that you guys probably think that this shit didnt go on before Sept. 11.

    While I dont necessarily disaagree with you guys on most of your points, I cant help but draw a line when it pertains to the "terrorist" attacks. We are talking about trying to get to the bottom of why 4,000 people arent here anymore, two HUGE buildings were destroyed, one HUGE building was damaged, 4 major airliners hit the ground, & how 20 some terrorists pulled the whole thing off. If you guys are pissed off now, where do you think we would be if the plane that crashed in Pa had gotten to its target? That's another debate.

    Let's go back to your title comparing Ashcroft to Adolf Hitler. Disagree with his tactics if you want, but don't compare him to a killer. Hitler killed people because of their religion. Our government, along with others, sent their own men over there to do something about it.

    Those terrorists KILLED our people BECAUSE THEY WERE AMERICANS. And we are doing something about it (I hope). To my knowledge, Ashcroft hasnt killed anybody......yet .
    We haven't had any real contact with each other there because we don't like each other, Pierre, and that makes for some very colorful sparks, all right. And I've got to admit, and got to say that it's inevitable, that there would be a reunion, it's one of the most hotly anticipated reunions in the history of the sport, OK? I wouldn't be surprised if it was relatively soon, on our lifetime while our clothing is still in style hopefully! Ya know it's like my Dad said, always told me, "Don't be humble, you're not that good." Dave, November 13, 2001

 

 

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