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  1. #1
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    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
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    According to 60 minutes, the US gov't has turned down Saddam's request/challenge for a debate, saying the challenge wasn't a serious one. Saddam looked pretty damn serious to me. In fact, I thought it was pretty magnanimous of him to offer to let Rather be the debate's moderator, considering Rather would have an obvious bias. Obviously, Bush and his advisors are concerned that this type of debate would allow Saddam to garner support within the Arab community, and they'd prefer to keep Iraq isolated/ostracized.

    My question is, do the American people want to see this? The Bush government says they have evidence of Saddam's support of terrorist groups and Iraq's involvement in the Anthrax attacks, but they won't release the proof because it compromises their intelligence networks. Personally, before I'd allow my son to fight in such a war, I'd want to see the proof - to see there's proper justification. If it truly is a just war, and there's facts to back that up, here's George's chance to show the world. What's your opinion on this, and the Saddam interview in general.
    "Some men are born to greatness, some women have greatness thrust up in them."<br /> <br />Diamond Dave

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    03.20.07 @ 12:01 PM
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    They won't release proof, because they have none!

    The Bush admin. should have a debate with us, the people, before we worry about Bush debating with Saddam. Of course they won't, because their logic and hypocrisy can't hold up to criticism. Their agenda is full of holes that are easily exposed. Look at how the admin. deals with the few questions that are posed to them: with lies, backpeddaling and anger. What kills me is when someone will point out US support for Hussein in the past, or ask about oil, and the government will call you treasonous or 'with the terrorists'.

    Although unrealistic given the climate, a debate between Bush and Hussein would be the mature thing to do. Wait, why be diplomatic when you have the largest military in history? Why debate when you can bomb? Anyways, Bush couldn't debate with a 10 year.

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    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
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    Originally posted by strungout:
    Anyways, Bush couldn't debate with a 10 year.
    I would think Bush would be intimidated by the prospect of debating Hussein. I was struck by how deft he is at handling the media. Rather used the standard 60 minutes tactic of trying to provoke the interviewee to get him on the defensive and Saddam saw it coming a mile away and didn't lose his cool. The guy did start his political career as an assasin, so I'm not about to anoint him for sainthood, but he didn't come across as the total psychotic the American media would like to portray him as. In the case of guys like Stalin or Hitler, you could see it in their "Charlie Manson" eyes, Saddam strikes me as more of a pragmatist/survivor. You can count on the truly crazy guys to make a crucial mistake, like Hitler's breaking the Non-Aggression Pact with Russia. Saddam seems more cunning than that.
    "Some men are born to greatness, some women have greatness thrust up in them."<br /> <br />Diamond Dave

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    03.20.07 @ 12:01 PM
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    Originally posted by Crazy from the Hemp:
    </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by strungout:
    Anyways, Bush couldn't debate with a 10 year.
    I would think Bush would be intimidated by the prospect of debating Hussein. I was struck by how deft he is at handling the media. Rather used the standard 60 minutes tactic of trying to provoke the interviewee to get him on the defensive and Saddam saw it coming a mile away and didn't lose his cool. The guy did start his political career as an assasin, so I'm not about to anoint him for sainthood, but he didn't come across as the total psychotic the American media would like to portray him as. In the case of guys like Stalin or Hitler, you could see it in their "Charlie Manson" eyes, Saddam strikes me as more of a pragmatist/survivor. You can count on the truly crazy guys to make a crucial mistake, like Hitler's breaking the Non-Aggression Pact with Russia. Saddam seems more cunning than that. </font>[/QUOTE]I would put him in the same category as Stalin. Ruthless dictators, but survivalists and very intelligent. Bush is a belligerent moron who's there to do the work of those really in charge (Cheney, Rumsfeld, Bush Sr.). There's no way Bush could stand up to Hussein in a discussion.

    I agree Hitler was a crazed fanatic. I wouldn't say he made a mistake in breaking the nonagression pact per se, since he had no intention of keeping it in the first place, and the whole aim of his war was to take the USSR. His real mistake was attacking the west, and eventually getting the US involved.

  5. #5
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    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
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    Originally posted by strungout:

    I agree Hitler was a crazed fanatic. I wouldn't say he made a mistake in breaking the nonagression pact per se, since he had no intention of keeping it in the first place, and the whole aim of his war was to take the USSR. His real mistake was attacking the west, and eventually getting the US involved.
    Funny, I don't remember the German Luftwaffe bombing Pearl Harbor Most historical accounts I've read agree that Hitler's crucial error was attacking Russia in the middle of winter, like Napolean before him. Germany was steadily advancing through Europe with minimal casualties before then. He should've strung Russia along til the very end. It was a mistake to rid himself of an army of that magnitude.

    Anyhoo, a little off topic. No other opinions on the topic at hand? I'm surprised that some of our more hawkish posters aren't jumping to defend the White House's position on this one.
    "Some men are born to greatness, some women have greatness thrust up in them."<br /> <br />Diamond Dave

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    Baluchitherium dirtymovies's Avatar
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    11.12.17 @ 09:04 PM
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    Debating with a lying murderer is just a liiiittle beneath President Bush, wouldn't you say?!

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    03.20.07 @ 12:01 PM
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    Originally posted by dirtymovies:
    Debating with a lying murderer is just a liiiittle beneath President Bush, wouldn't you say?!
    I'm sure he's done it plenty of times with his dad. [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img]

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    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
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    Originally posted by dirtymovies:
    Debating with a lying murderer is just a liiiittle beneath President Bush, wouldn't you say?!
    I don't think world leaders should consider an opportunity to present the truth in a global forum as an endeavor that's beneath them. Incidentally, if there is in fact no evidence to link Iraq to terrorist attacks, and this war is about oil interests and settling old scores, wouldn't that make Bush Jr. a lying murderer as well?
    "Some men are born to greatness, some women have greatness thrust up in them."<br /> <br />Diamond Dave

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    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
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    Ok let's simplify, before they each send hundreds of thousands to fight on their behalf, wouldn't it be nice to see them go mano a mano? I for one would like to see our leaders get their hands dirty for once. If they had to stand and defend their position in front of the world, maybe they wouldn't be so eager to treat the planet as their personal game of Risk.
    "Some men are born to greatness, some women have greatness thrust up in them."<br /> <br />Diamond Dave

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    12.19.16 @ 05:15 PM
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    Strungup, your idiocy is amazing. Considering your views of GWB, maybe YOU should run in 2004...just be sure and tell everyone you didn't inhale.

  11. #11
    Atomic Punk MikeL's Avatar
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    03.03.15 @ 08:31 PM
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    It's interesting to me that a couple of you give Saddam so much credit for being intelligent and well-spoken. I've never heard him speak at length, seen anything he's written, or heard credible individuals with knowledge speak of him in the way some of you do. I'm not saying he isn't intelligent or well-spoken, just that I've never seen anything to indicate that he is. Being a dictator for 20+ years might suggest he is, but looking at his terrible foreign policy mistakes over that period of time might suggest that he isn't.

    I'd like to see the two of them debate, but I'm not stupid enough to think that it'd be anything other than a poorly scripted reality TV show. Of course Saddam wants to do it. He's got nothing to lose by doing it, and everything to gain. A debate only accomplishes anything when both sides are honest and sincere in wanting to show their side of an issue. Neither one of them would or can do that. What's the point, other than laughs?

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    Baluchitherium dirtymovies's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Crazy from the Hemp:
    </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by dirtymovies:
    Debating with a lying murderer is just a liiiittle beneath President Bush, wouldn't you say?!
    I don't think world leaders should consider an opportunity to present the truth in a global forum as an endeavor that's beneath them. Incidentally, if there is in fact no evidence to link Iraq to terrorist attacks, and this war is about oil interests and settling old scores, wouldn't that make Bush Jr. a lying murderer as well? </font>[/QUOTE]I thought Powell laid out plenty of evidence a few weeks ago. I don't believe this is about oil (unless you're France) and I certainly don't think it's about settling old scores. That is absurd! It's nothing more than Bush taking away a ruthless dictator's eventual ability to obliterate other countries.

    I must say I LMAO when Saddam said he won the last election with 100% of the vote and the previous one with like 99%. If it's true, it's because every voter was so fearful of being killed by the dictator for voting otherwise!

  13. #13
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    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
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    Originally posted by MikeL:
    I'm not saying he isn't intelligent or well-spoken, just that I've never seen anything to indicate that he is.
    Did you watch the interview last night?
    "Some men are born to greatness, some women have greatness thrust up in them."<br /> <br />Diamond Dave

  14. #14
    Atomic Punk MikeL's Avatar
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    03.03.15 @ 08:31 PM
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    No, I didn't. Can you direct me to a transcript?

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    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
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    Originally posted by MikeL:
    No, I didn't. Can you direct me to a transcript?
    Here ya go, although you are missing a lot not seeing the actual interview. What's the stat - 90% of communication is non-verbal?

    Link
    "Some men are born to greatness, some women have greatness thrust up in them."<br /> <br />Diamond Dave

 

 

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