Follow us on...
Follow us on Twitter Follow us on Facebook Watch us on YouTube
Register
Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 50
  1. #1
    Top Of The World
    Join Date
    01.25.03
    Age
    42
    Posts
    174
    Last Online

    02.29.08 @ 03:42 PM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    I'm watchin' the State of the Union and Bush is talking about doing away with PBA's and the Democratic side of the isle stays seated and does not applaud. I know there are some pro-choice people on this board and I would like an intelligent explanation as to why Dems and Pro-choice people are opposed to banning partial birth aborions. Let me extend a comparison...I am pro gun. I would liken the stance on PBA's to me supporting peoples right to have biological weapons. In my mind it is so out there...and such a disgusting procedure that I can't imagine who would defend it. In fact, why do we need goevernment intervention on this shit? Why wouldn't the AMA reject doctors that perform this procedure? What doctor would want to do this? I know that in extreme cases that the woman's life is in danger and I am all for saving the mother...
    but to defend this on the grounds that you support a woman's right to choose is just ridiculous. Please address my points instead of attacking me personally. I really desire an intelligent discussion on the subject.
    believe the lies...there is no truth

  2. #2
    PM Goo with your concerns OLO's Avatar
    Join Date
    12.13.99
    Age
    49
    Location
    Enumclaw, WA
    Posts
    18,055
    Favorite VH Album

    Fair Warning
    Favorite VH Song

    Unchained
    Last Online

    12.14.17 @ 01:36 AM
    Likes
    91
    Liked 84 Times in 35 Posts

    Ohhhhhhhhhhhh ....this should stay nice and civil.
    ((Just My Two Cents))
    And thats about what its worth.

  3. #3
    Damage your reputation seenbad's Avatar
    Join Date
    02.24.00
    Age
    45
    Location
    Portland Oregon
    Posts
    26,946
    Favorite VH Album

    Halen 1
    Favorite VH Song

    I'm the one
    Last Online

    11.30.17 @ 06:15 PM
    Likes
    73
    Liked 257 Times in 92 Posts


    Donor

    I'm hoping so because I'd like to actually see a legit reasoning behind this kind of thinking. I'm just interested in the thinking process itself and how one comes to the conclusion that its ok. Seriously. When it gets nasty, and I'm also sure it will, I'll close it (or somebody will), but I'm hoping a pro-choicer that would be of the ilk of non applause to this kind of stance would speak up first. Not so I or anybody else can flame them, but really just out of interest.
    sheepa latta peepah dabba looka foh a moopy

    Gunter glieben glauchen globen

  4. #4
    Top Of The World
    Join Date
    01.25.03
    Age
    42
    Posts
    174
    Last Online

    02.29.08 @ 03:42 PM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Why close it when it gets nasty?
    believe the lies...there is no truth

  5. #5
    Damage your reputation seenbad's Avatar
    Join Date
    02.24.00
    Age
    45
    Location
    Portland Oregon
    Posts
    26,946
    Favorite VH Album

    Halen 1
    Favorite VH Song

    I'm the one
    Last Online

    11.30.17 @ 06:15 PM
    Likes
    73
    Liked 257 Times in 92 Posts


    Donor

    Thats just a difference that you will find between here and what used to be the army man. When a topic gets ridiculous and looses the focus and perspective of the original post or subject by turning into a monster flame fest, it gets closed. It's what keeps the board about "topics" rather than the "fights" that result from topics. If a topic turns into a fight, then the original point has been lost and there is no need to keep it going. Civility is respected for the most part around here. Once in a while cages get rattled, but you won't find anything like the dump etc. Know whatta mean?
    sheepa latta peepah dabba looka foh a moopy

    Gunter glieben glauchen globen

  6. #6
    Sinner's Swing! twonabomber's Avatar
    Join Date
    10.15.01
    Location
    cleveland, oh
    Posts
    3,699
    Last Online

    12.08.16 @ 03:21 AM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    what i think about abortion doesn't matter, because i won't have to be making that choice. what i don't like is the government stepping in and saying this or that can be done. there are some things the government should stay out of. i don't vote for someone so they can tell me how to live my life. didn't we learn back in the early 1900's that prohibition doesn't work? to me, it smacks of legislating morality. they're already trying to legislate stupidity, and that's not working, either...

    if someone doesn't believe in abortion, fine, you instill that belief in your family. but when it comes to someone else's family, someone else's life, butt the hell out...

    flame away...but note i didn't claim to be pro life or pro choice...
    "is this a good show tonight, or fuckin' what?" - DLR, Montreal, 11/10/07

    Toronto 10/7...Cleveland 10/10...Toronto 10/12...Montreal 11/10

  7. #7
    Banned!
    Join Date
    01.05.00
    Posts
    299
    Last Online

    07.15.07 @ 05:40 AM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Okay I'll chime in on this. But, due to the fact that this is such a heated issue, I will not respond at all to any attacks certain people on this website my throw my way to advance their own beliefs. Okay...here goes...

    I am, admittedly pro-life. Yet, I do not believe abortion on a whole should be illegal. In my opinion, the goal should be a society where abortion is legal, yet rarely if ever happens because people do not believe in doing it.

    Anyway, on to partial birth abortion. I whole-heartedly believe that this barbaric procedure should indeed be outlawed. It is nothing short of infanticide. In fact, many so-called "pro-choice" people also agree that PBA should be outlawed. Most people that believe it should be allowed don't realize what the procedure actually is. (And no, I'm not going to describe it here.)

    For example, the other day at work a young co-worker was complaining about how President Bush could be so anti-women as to suggest that PBA be outlawed. When I asked her if she truly knew what PBA was, she said no, but that all abortions should be allowed because it's "my body, my choice." I told her, as politely as I could, that I respected her opinion, but agreed to disagree. I then explained to her, in detail, the PBA procedure. At first she didn't believe me and thought I was simply trying to spew some sort of right-wing propoganda. I responded by simply telling her to research it herself and see what she found. The next day, she came to work and apologized. It seems she looked it up on the internet and found many sites which explained the procedure exactly as I had. She now says that she wants to research so-called "regular abortions" because she feels that, knowing the truth, her opinions are changing.

    So, bottom line. Say what you will about abortion on a whole. I'll respect your views, though I'll humbly disagree. But on PBA, I can not understand how any knowledgable person could in good conscience condone such a murderous act.

    *Steps off his soap box*

  8. #8
    Top Of The World
    Join Date
    01.25.03
    Age
    42
    Posts
    174
    Last Online

    02.29.08 @ 03:42 PM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    That is an intelligent response...albeit one for my side. I too believe abortion should be legal...I feel it is the wisdom of God. If one does good because good is the only choice then no virtue can be associated with the act.
    believe the lies...there is no truth

  9. #9
    Top Of The World
    Join Date
    01.25.03
    Age
    42
    Posts
    174
    Last Online

    02.29.08 @ 03:42 PM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Originally posted by seenbad:
    Thats just a difference that you will find between here and what used to be the army man. When a topic gets ridiculous and looses the focus and perspective of the original post or subject by turning into a monster flame fest, it gets closed. It's what keeps the board about "topics" rather than the "fights" that result from topics. If a topic turns into a fight, then the original point has been lost and there is no need to keep it going. Civility is respected for the most part around here. Once in a while cages get rattled, but you won't find anything like the dump etc. Know whatta mean?
    You guys maintain the boards very well and your opinions should be respected but I humbly request that you allow this thread to run its course. We both know that it could and probably will turn nasty. As a moderator you could chime in with criticism of the offensive reply and guide the post along. I would like to see the tapestry of emotions associated with this topic. I think others would too.
    believe the lies...there is no truth

  10. #10
    Damage your reputation seenbad's Avatar
    Join Date
    02.24.00
    Age
    45
    Location
    Portland Oregon
    Posts
    26,946
    Favorite VH Album

    Halen 1
    Favorite VH Song

    I'm the one
    Last Online

    11.30.17 @ 06:15 PM
    Likes
    73
    Liked 257 Times in 92 Posts


    Donor

    Originally posted by swage:
    quote:
    Originally posted by seenbad:
    Thats just a difference that you will find between here and what used to be the army man. When a topic gets ridiculous and looses the focus and perspective of the original post or subject by turning into a monster flame fest, it gets closed. It's what keeps the board about "topics" rather than the "fights" that result from topics. If a topic turns into a fight, then the original point has been lost and there is no need to keep it going. Civility is respected for the most part around here. Once in a while cages get rattled, but you won't find anything like the dump etc. Know whatta mean?
    You guys maintain the boards very well and your opinions should be respected but I humbly request that you allow this thread to run its course. We both know that it could and probably will turn nasty. As a moderator you could chime in with criticism of the offensive reply and guide the post along. I would like to see the tapestry of emotions associated with this topic. I think others would too. [/QUOTE]I appreciate the compliment, as well as your wishes, but don't expect this to stay open too long after people start slingin the ol'e proverbial mud. It's not the nature of the board and never has been, to let a topic get out of hand with regards to flamin', and I can't change the rules for one thread just to see what happens. I think the formula has been working pretty well for a few years now and I'm not sure it needs to be mixed now.

    Tell ya what though, since it's not my board and I just moderate this one forum, you are more than welcome to go over my head on this and make your request to Brett. I'd have no problem with that whatsoever. Being that its his site and he makes the rules for it and we just try to uphold them, you can ask him and see if he doesn't mind Roe vs. Wade no holds barred. Until I hear it from him though, I'll keep this under the same rules that I use with everything else.
    sheepa latta peepah dabba looka foh a moopy

    Gunter glieben glauchen globen

  11. #11
    Unchained
    Join Date
    03.05.00
    Location
    Columbus, OH USA
    Posts
    517
    Last Online

    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 1 Time in 1 Post

    i'm not very well informed on the topic of PBAs, so i can't respond directly to that. it was my impression that they were extreme surgical procedures that constituted something like one percent of abortions. were a surgeon to perform it for anything less than grave reasons, obviously that would be grotesque.

    politically speaking, it seems like bush wants to use this as a bone to throw to ardent pro-life voters, ie "i can't outlaw abortion, but i can make a little toe-hold here." i don't think that's an outrageous reading of his intent.

    i feel like the others here that abortion is wrong, but i don't feel it should be illeagal. like jeff said, our goal should be a soceity where abortions are irrelevant. unfortunately, it seems to me that we have a long way to go as far as our children's welfare is concerned.

    i got to say too, the maturity on an emotionally charged topic here really impresses me. of course i've probably jinxed it now.

  12. #12
    5150
    Join Date
    10.13.99
    Age
    34
    Location
    Ohio, USA
    Posts
    656
    Favorite VH Album

    Fair Warning
    Favorite VH Song

    Too many to choose from...
    Last Online

    07.17.17 @ 07:19 AM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 3 Times in 1 Post

    I would say that another big fear would be that if these types of abortions are made illegal then what next? Do we then push the date that abortions are allowed to take place back farther and farther until eventually all abortion is illegal? It would start a slippery slope that would end up infringing on a women's right to choose.

  13. #13
    Atomic Punk MikeL's Avatar
    Join Date
    02.17.00
    Posts
    11,536
    Last Online

    03.03.15 @ 08:31 PM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 2 Times in 1 Post


    Donor

    I can see ian's point about a slippery slope.

    I'm generally pro-choice, but I'm not exactly thrilled with PBAs. I wouldn't mind seeing them done away with. I know some people like to hem and haw about making choices, but I don't believe anyone needs that much time to decide whether or not to keep a child. If something changes late in the pregnancy (life can be like that), then I would think adoption would be the most reasonable choice to make.

    I think abortion as a topic is a waste of time. Yeah, yeah, here I am talking about it. But we're a bunch of guys who can't truly understand what it's like to carry a child. Not only that, but abortions aren't all that common, at least in my social circles. I'm 27, and I know of a friend of a friend who had an abortion once. That's it. Seems like the signal to noise ratio in the debate is extremely high.

    People get all whacked out about the subject, and do absolutely stupid shit in connection to it. I've seen people drive around in a truck plastered with pictures of abortions (yeah, that's brilliant), and I've seen a poster here toss up such pics in a thread. That's just dandy. "Oh but you don't understand until you see it!" What a bunch of crap. Give people some credit, and enjoy such photos privately if you must.

    It's a hot-button issue for people who are far too willing to get involved in other peoples' lives. "I don't want the federal government telling me what I can't do, but they'd best tell people who make choices I don't agree with what they can't do." I think it's all a bunch of BS.

  14. #14
    Imperial Fascist Overlord Down In Flames's Avatar
    Join Date
    05.28.00
    Location
    Your Mother's Bedroom
    Posts
    14,285
    Favorite VH Album

    VH II
    Favorite VH Song

    D.O.A.
    Last Online

    @
    Likes
    0
    Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts

    Originally posted by MikeL:
    But we're a bunch of guys who can't truly understand what it's like to carry a child.
    Says you...



    (I couldn't resist. )
    http://www.vhlinks.com/vbforums/images/avatars/michael3.jpg

    "You are the McCarthy of this board. The witch burner." - strungout, on yours truly

    "Only Eddymon would claim victory during a FOUR game losing streak." - OLO

    "Did I not say, 'I think we should shoot him!' I did. Double rainbow on this end. I require a high five. Out."- track 5, on the delicate art of banning

    "If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can hire..."

  15. #15
    carpe damn diem billy007's Avatar
    Join Date
    04.19.00
    Age
    54
    Location
    On the wild card line...
    Posts
    28,676
    Favorite VH Song

    "Dance The Night Away"
    Last Online

    12.14.17 @ 09:16 AM
    Likes
    1,046
    Liked 1,348 Times in 925 Posts

    I don't really want to get too involved with this a: in light of what went down yesterday and b: in light of I'm going out of town and don't know how much opportunity I'll have to visit and respond to responses. The only point I want to make is directed at those that compare illegalising abortion to prohibition and the government trying to control what we can and can't do. First of all, prohibition was about controlling a substance and whether or not it was legal to ingest that substance. This fight is not about such a thing. I can't speak for every person that is anti-abortion, but to me, abortion is murder and no different than killing a child at a playground or drowning a child in the bathtub. And last time I checked, murder was illegal. When people talk about a woman's right to choose, that choice comes before she is pregnant. And some people will throw up instances of rape and incest, and those would issues would need to be dealt with. But I'm appalled that we allow abortions of "convenience". Some people won't like my analogy of when she should make her choice, but it's like drunk driving. You can choose to get behind the wheel of a car sloppy drunk, and you might make it home (or whereever you're going) safely. But should something happen, you are forced to deal with the consequences - there is no easy out. (and this is where someone will say "abortion is not an easy out" to which I say "bullshit!"). Bottom line is abortion is just another symptom of how we try to find ways to not take full responsibility of our actions. But the bottom line is, since I'm anti-abortion to begin with, you can pretty much guess how I feel about these partial birth abortions. It saddens me to think that someone even thought to come up with the procedure. Probably someone who never had a child of their own, too.

 

 

Similar Threads

  1. South Dakota Set to Ban Almost All Abortions
    By janthraxx in forum VH Fans Meeting Place (Non-Music)
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 02.27.06, 07:57 PM
  2. Women demand tougher laws to curb abortions
    By Phatie in forum VH Fans Meeting Place (Non-Music)
    Replies: 179
    Last Post: 02.27.06, 12:08 PM
  3. Birth Match 3000
    By voivod in forum VH Fans Meeting Place (Non-Music)
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 09.15.05, 05:14 AM
  4. READ THIS partial interview
    By Professor5150! in forum Main VH Discussion
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 12.17.02, 02:07 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •