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Thread: Apology

  1. #1
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    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
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    I posted a topic called 'Don't fly off the handle, but', and judging from the amount of views but lack of responce I have deleted it. (the only way I knew how was to edit it, and this is the edit!)

    If I upset anyone with this post I apologise. That was not my intention.
    I thought it would be interesting to hear what you thought of this matter, but should have been more sensitive.

    [ October 20, 2002, 12:21 AM: Message edited by: sean112 ]
    The rumor: W.D.F.A-We Don't Fuck Around.<br />The truth: W.D.F.A-We Disregard Fans Abundently

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    Atomic Punk MikeL's Avatar
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    Donor

    You don't owe anyone an apology. I wanted to wait and see what kind of responses your post drew before I got involved, but perhaps I should have posted something.

    There's a lot of concern here within the US over which way we're going. It's been a long time since we acted without world support to wage war on a large scale. Our direction seems to be more political than practical, particularly as North Korea just announced it's got a well-developed nuclear program. Bush's declarations would seem to oblige us to deal with North Korea in the same way we seem to be preparing to deal with Iraq. Somehow North Korea is getting no attention, which is raising questions about our real motives in dealing with Iraq.

    I can understand how we're appearing to be a bully. How could it be that the most powerful nation on Earth is vulnerable to a small group of savages, and impotent when it comes to capturing their leader? That's what's driving us right now. We're angry, and we're reacting. Unfortunately there really isn't a response that's effective, and our leadership seems to think that someone's head has to roll. One bad guy is as good as another, eh?

    We've been put in a bad position, and the politicians are feeling obligated to act even though a solution to the problem isn't apparent. It's not a lot different in nature than the forces that set the first world war into motion. Hopefully our generation won't have reason to regret as that past generation did.

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    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
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    Thanks for the reply.
    I was a bit out on a limb there!
    I did not mean to upset people with this post.
    Strangely enough, one of our sports people out here made a similar statement and was crucified for it.
    With these comments, I wondered what motivated them, and I get the impression that we out here are pretty tapped as far as military resorses are concerned and this makes us feel vulnerable.
    Can't help wondering if these thoughts are inspired by fear?
    We simply don't have the numbers to dedicate to this sort of situation which leaves us open to attack.
    For the record, when this person said what he said he got unanamous "what the..." looks from all concerned!
    So these views are few and far between, but it did come up and I thought it might be interesting to discuss it.
    The rumor: W.D.F.A-We Don't Fuck Around.<br />The truth: W.D.F.A-We Disregard Fans Abundently

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    Master Bluesman Elwood P.'s Avatar
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    12.15.17 @ 09:49 AM
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    Originally posted by Axxman300:

    Then there's the big hipocracy that arises when the same countries that call us a big bully are the first ones to come running to us for help when the big bad monster in their back yard gets loose from it's cage.
    "We don't want to be the world's policeman, but guess who gets called when someone needs a cop." (Colin Powell)
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    Master Bluesman Elwood P.'s Avatar
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    12.15.17 @ 09:49 AM
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    Originally posted by MikeL:

    Our direction seems to be more political than practical, particularly as North Korea just announced it's got a well-developed nuclear program. Bush's declarations would seem to oblige us to deal with North Korea in the same way we seem to be preparing to deal with Iraq. Somehow North Korea is getting no attention, which is raising questions about our real motives in dealing with Iraq.
    I believe the thinking is that North Korea's intentions have more to do with deterrence than with first-strike plans. That is, N. Korea is a closed-society that possesses their military hardware in order to deter attacks on them and also for the possibility using this hardware as some sort of blackmail in order to get more favorable aid packages sent their way.

    I didn't say I agree with all of that, just that this is the thinking at the moment re: N. Korea as I read it. Contrast that with Saddam and Iraq. Here's a guy who's invaded his neighbors twice in the last 20 years (Iran and Kuwait), fired scuds on Israel, used poison gas on his own people. All this happening in the Persian Gulf where much of the World's oil comes from and passes thru. Saddam is thus seen as a more immediate threat than N. Korea. For the record, I'm not in favor of going into Iraq, at least at the moment. I believe it could bring about more problems than solutions.

    As far as North Korea, well South Korea and Japan are right there and they know they are at risk much more than the U.S. is. They are both angry and concerned and are seeking solutions at the moment. Contrast that with the Saudis etc. who wouldn't worry about Saddam or say anything negative about him until he's outside their front door and the Scuds are falling on them. I'll be honest and say I don't have the answers to all this mess except that our military has to be ready to go in and flatten Iraq at a moment's notice but I don't think that moment's here yet.
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    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
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    anyone who needs help who do they call? the U.S.A. and when they dont need help who do they talk shit about? the U.S.A.
    we are a careing country we help everyone but we get shit on. the only reason we do anything is because people of the world want or need our help. it gets me sick that these people that need our help turn and shit on us after they get it.
    van halen shall return. what you think is nothing might be something after all.

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    Atomic Punk MikeL's Avatar
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    03.03.15 @ 08:31 PM
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    Donor

    Originally posted by joe318:
    anyone who needs help who do they call? the U.S.A. and when they dont need help who do they talk shit about?
    Why don't you give us some examples?

  8. #8
    Atomic Punk MikeL's Avatar
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    Donor

    Originally posted by Elwood P.:
    I believe the thinking is that North Korea's intentions have more to do with deterrence than with first-strike plans. That is, N. Korea is a closed-society that possesses their military hardware in order to deter attacks on them and also for the possibility using this hardware as some sort of blackmail in order to get more favorable aid packages sent their way.
    North Korea isn't just interested in self-defense. They export missle technology readily, as they need the currency. They continually probe and harass South Korea's defences. Within the past couple of months there's been a naval engagement between the two Koreas. North Korea was named as a state sponsoring terror by the administration, and is grouped as part of the "axis of evil" along with Iran and Iraq.

    Who's more likely to export a nuke, and who's more likely to possess a delivery method for a nuke? North Korea. Of course, Iran has a nuclear program that's progressing with Russian assistance, and we don't seem to be doing anything about that either.

    Combine that indifference with Bush's fixation on Iraq, and it makes me question our motives. If the administration fails to effectively address North Korea's announcements it'd seem to confirm my suspicions.

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    05.31.14 @ 08:17 PM
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    Tell your friend that the United States isn't picking on Democracies and the scumb that we do push around deserve it and it's always after a painful period of diplomatic threats. The only country that we intervened in without warning was Grenada. We've been on Iraq's case for ELEVEN YEARS!! So it's not like we've just picked on them out of the blue. In spite of all the threats that the US has made this year, the fact is that we are no closer to war than we were this time last year.

    Then there's the big hipocracy that arises when the same countries that call us a big bully are the first ones to come running to us for help when the big bad monster in their back yard gets loose from it's cage. "Please save us!!" they cry as they grovel at our feet. And we do, because we aren't a petty, sniveling, second rate has been nation, we are the United States of America. We are cool, helping out is what we do. From the Kaiser to Tojo, Hitler and Milosevic, the US has had to step in to clean up some very ugly situations. We have help too, England is usually right at our side doing a bang up job as well. Japan has qietly helped us in the way of cah and resources. There are others but you get the idea.

    Then you have to explain to your "knowledgable" friend that our foriegn policy changes because our leadership in the White House and in the Congress changes. We didn't do anything in East Timor because the Clinton administration had a feeble grasp of that part of the world matched with a sadly idealistic view of the third world in which US intervention just "didn't seem fair". A different President might have handled it better.

    Tell your friend that the fact is that the United States feeds millions of people in the third world every month. We also provide medical care and agriculteral assistance to just about everyone who asks. We open our market places to their goods, often at the expense of our own people. We secure loans for small countries that we know can't pay us back, so they can build damns, buy construction equipment and agriculter production products.

    But your friend calls us a "Bully".

    Ask your friend why he's so comfortable with mass murder. If he's standing up for Iraq, if he thinks Saddam Hussein is such a swell guy then he must get off on the murder of little kids, old men and pregnant women. That's what the Bath Party is all about: Murder, extortion, rape and torture of political dissidents. Your friend, in opposing our policy on Iraq, is standing up for these kind of inhuman acts.

    Your friend is a baby killer.

    For the record, I'm not big on going into Iraq at this time. It would wreck our relationships with many crucial Arab nations that we are counting on with our war with Al Caida. Unless The Prez can pony up some better evidence then Iraq should wait. I think that the stratigy is more to pressure Iraq into allowing inspectors back into the country, and how is that bad?

    Hey, I guess we could just cut all foriegn aid. Shit, let those kids in those far away places starve to death. Maybe you could tape the footage of the toddlers in advanced emaciation, laying in over crowded clinics, too weak to do anything but cry themselves to death.

    My guess is that your friend will beat off to it.
    "Nothing is ever what it seems but everything is exactly what it is." - B. Banzai


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    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
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    Originally posted by Elwood P.:
    For the record, I'm not in favor of going into Iraq, at least at the moment. I believe it could bring about more problems than solutions.

    .[/QB]
    What worries me more than nuclear is biological warfare.
    I was watching one of those conspiracy shows about germ warfare and what country had what.
    While most of it seemed to be hype, they did make one very interesting point: No man made weapon has ever not been used.
    When you consider Saddam's background, it seems fair to think that if anyone is going to use these weapons, it'll probably be him!
    I also remember hearing the suggestion that he be 'surgically removed', but can't help wondering if it will just make way for someone else who will win favour with his people by avenging Saddam's death.
    I'm loath to say it but although the thought of war scares the hell out of me, the thought of this person using these weapons TERRIFIES me and it seems that he needs to be stopped as soon as yesterday!
    The part of this that gets at my concience is that I'm not the one who has to go in and do the job, so it's easy to sit back and say it!
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    12.14.17 @ 09:52 PM
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    Donor

    Licking his wounds. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

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    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
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    How quickly the world forgets

    This first appeared almost 30 years ago, and you can add more examples, but it still has much relevance in today's world:
    Gordon Sinclair

    "This Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the Americans as the most generous and possibly the least appreciated people on all the earth. Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and Italy were lifted out of the debris of war by the Americans who poured in billions of dollars and forgave other billions in debts. None of these countries is today paying even the interest on its remaining debts to the United States. When the franc was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it was the Americans who propped it up, and their reward was to be insulted and swindled on the streets of Paris. I was there. I saw it.
    "When earthquakes hit distant cities, it is the United States that hurries in to help. This spring, 59 American communities were flattened by tornadoes. Nobody helped. The Marshall Plan and the Truman Policy pumped billions of dollars into discouraged countries. Now newspapers in those countries are writing about the decadent, war-mongering Americans.

    "I'd like to see just one of those countries that is gloating over the erosion of the United States dollar build its own airplane. Does any other country in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet, the Lockheed Tri-Star, or the Douglas DC-10? If so, why don't they fly them? Why do all the International Airlines except Russia fly American planes? Why does no other land on earth even consider putting a man or woman on the moon?

    "You talk about Japanese technocracy, and you get radios. You talk about German technocracy, and you get automobiles. You talk about American technocracy, and you find men on the moon not once, but several times and safely home again.

    "You talk about scandals, and the Americans put theirs right in the store window for everybody to look at. Even their draft-dodgers are not pursued and hounded. They are here on our streets, and most of them, unless they are breaking Canadian laws, are getting American dollars from ma and pa at home to spend here.

    "When the railways of France, Germany and India were breaking down through age, it was the American who rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania Railroad and the New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them an old caboose. Both are still broke. I can name you 5000 times when the Americans raced to the help of other people in trouble. Can you name me even one time when someone else raced to the Americans in trouble? I don't think there was outside help even during the San Francisco earthquake.

    "Our neighbors have faced it alone, and I'm one Canadian who is damned tired of hearing them get kicked around. They will come out of this thing with their flag high. And when they do, they are entitled to thumb their nose at the lands that are gloating over their present troubles. I hope Canada is not one of those. Stand proud, Americans!" [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img]
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    12.14.17 @ 09:52 PM
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    Originally posted by MikeL:
    Licking his wounds. [img]tongue.gif[/img]
    lmao

    [img]graemlins/sssh.gif[/img]

    JMJ
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    03.20.07 @ 12:01 PM
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    Originally posted by MikeL:
    </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by joe318:
    anyone who needs help who do they call? the U.S.A. and when they dont need help who do they talk shit about?
    Why don't you give us some examples?</font>[/QUOTE]Who has 'called' us for help?? Specific examples please.

    There are plenty of examples out there of countries denouncing our actions for specific reasons, but I have not seen anyone 'call us for help' on anything.

 

 

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