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  1. #1
    5150 jorL5150's Avatar
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    11.02.05 @ 03:38 PM
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    short answere: NO.

    long answere:

    a lot of people, even those who profess to like or tolerate sammy tend to have the view that "sammy in van halen made them a pop-oriented group"

    i have to disagree, it seems rediculous to me, for all the critics who lament the van hagar ballads there is relative silence over songs like "jump" and the cover tunes. most of the criticism is just people who don't like sammy and the points of criticism are just inconsistant vicious cycles of double standards.

    for a fair comparison, look at all the songs that could be considered "radio friendly"

    FIRST OF ALL- this is not a bout "who is better- sammy or dave" i love them both and that i prefer sammy is my opinion. it is a discussion of fact. all the songs listed are done so because they could , categorically be called "pop-rock", they are not crititcisms of the songs or singers. in spite of it all van halen is still identifies as a HARD ROCK group.

    unreleased- "angel eyes"acoustic even!
    van halen"2"- "dance the night away"
    "you're no good"- roth said: "it was a hit once- it will be a hit again"

    vh-"diver down" : "dancin' in the street"
    "oh pretty woman(cover)"

    vh1984: "jump"

    vh5150: "love walks in"
    "why can't this be love"
    "dreams"

    vh0u812: "when its love"

    vh"balance" : "not enough"
    "can't stop lonin' you"


    sorry, i just don't see such a land-slide difference.
    "but jorL, sammy was always more commercially oriented- look at mas tequila and i can't drive 55"

    well, ok- but then consider :

    "just a gigalo"(cover)
    "paradise"
    "california girls"(cover)

    once again, sammy and dave are different , yet there is not any more or less pop- sound.

    van halen just rocks.

  2. #2
    Sinner's Swing!
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    10.09.12 @ 02:50 PM
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    I don't think it's about rock vs pop, I think it's about attitude and sound. Sammy was a rocker when he came in and a rocker when he left.

    Dave wasn't talking 'bout love. He was talking about chicks, cars, youth etc The subject matter wasn't deep but the delivery was cynical and tongue in cheek. 'A buddhist riff for your inner ear'

    Sammy was talking about love.....too much for some tastes including mine....but it's just TASTE!! Then he started talking about politics, religion and other deep matters but IN MY OPINION in a rather shallow way. Has anyone ever learnt anything about life from a Sammy lyric?

    The ATTITUDES were different, I think that's what people mean when they say Van Hagar went pop. Classic Van Halen was funny but brutal, Van Hagar delivered a more serious message (sometimes) but the music still rocked. And then there's Eddie....someone gave him a flanger and that changed the sound.....for better or worse is again a matter of taste.

    Pop? I say Jump is the greatest pop song ever written.....especially on a warm July day

  3. #3
    Beloved Glenn's Avatar
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    02.13.15 @ 08:56 AM
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    Donor

    I agree with a lot of what you said. I think another easy reason that Sammy gets the rap of being pop is because of the keyboards. People are more likely to call a song with piano, like Right Now, a pop song than Dance the Night Away, because DTNA has guitar as its main instrument.

    I think most people just don't like the fact that Eddie put down his guitar in favor of the keys in many of those songs. Van Halen spent many years being identified with guitar guitar guitar, and the change to keys, which happened on 1984, tends to be looked at as a product of Sammy arriving. Actually, as Jump, 1984 and I'll Wait proves, Eddie was going in that direction anyway.

    Good topic.

  4. #4
    Hang 'Em High Stuff No More's Avatar
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    01.08.05 @ 11:08 AM
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    Gotta say no too. My reasons:

    Music, no matter who the musician is, is not recorded in a vacuum. Other styles influence people as they make them.

    Dave's stuff had it's primary foundation laid down in the '70s, and barring the people who were so whacked out on drugs that they made progressive rock, if you listen to '70s songs they won't sound THAT far from early VH material. You can "date" VH based on that. And this was the case, primarily up until 1984.

    1984 introduces more of the keyboards because it represents the influence of a new decade of music on Van Halen, the first retooling of their sound (which all successful groups, barring AC/DC) do regularly throughout their life. 5150 and OU812 was just a natural progression of that into the new sound for the band.

    Basically, this shows me Eddie was headed in that direction with his stylings before Sammy came on board. Perhaps the reason they never really sang balads before was not because Sammy WANTED to, but because Dave DIDN'T want to. Tossing out Angel Eyes, which never saw the light of day, and Damn Good which didn't see the light of Van Halen, what ballad has Dave done? Not his style, he'd sound as rediculous as some of the late 80s/early 90s bands sounded.

    Now, listen to For UCK and Balance. Yes, there are ballads there as well, but a much lower emphasis on the synth as a central instrument in the band. We have a piano in Right Now and Not Enough. The rest are either guitar ballads (CSLY) or hard edged rock songs. This was coming as hair metal died out and was replaced with a much less "poppy" sound. And, again, Van Halen's sound, while still with Sammy, changed slightly.

    Ultimately I think blaming Sammy for the sound change is an oversimplification of the growth and change of a musical entity over time. Yes, Sammy's input may have changed the course slightly, but ultimately Van Halen (read: Eddie) had directed the band more along the keyboards route before Dave even left, which in part may have been why Dave left in the first place (which is ironic since by the time Skyscraper came out his style had changed to match that of 5150 and OU812). But the sound change is just the natural evolution of the band. I doubt we ever hear them perform like that again, as that period in music has come and gone, and all the exterior influences will focus more on guitars and traditional rock elements. Listen to the DLR Band CD. Sure, it reminds you of classic VH, but it has a definite, '90s rock edge to it. As I'm sure Van Halen's next album will as well.

    If you want, you can almost divide VH's collection into era groups, something like this:

    VH - Diver Down: "Classic rock"
    1984 - OU812: "Hair metal"
    For UCK - VH3: "Alternative rock"

    While I know VH hasn't been a member of ANY of those groups (well, maybe classic rock to an extent), those just seem to be the outside influences on the sound.

    Anyway, I've made my point and taken up way to much space, so I'll cut it here.

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  5. #5
    Atomic Punk FORD's Avatar
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    10.22.17 @ 08:55 PM
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    I've said this a number of times in a number of ways, but here goes again....

    Sammy was more lenient with Eddie than Dave was. Eddie didn't wake up and start writing keyboard oriented pop songs in 1986, or even in 1983. He was writing them all along, but Dave didn't think it was Van Halen, so it didn't make the albums until 1984.

    Now that being said, it is a undeniable fact that there were more pop songs and ballads on a Van Hagar album than a Van HALEN album.

    Was Dance the Night Away a top 40 hit? Yes, absolutely. Was it a wussy love ballad? Not at all.

    Does that mean they all sucked? I guess that's a matter of taste. For me it depends on what kind of mood I'm in whether or not I skip over the sappy ballads. That's something I didn't have to do on the Van HALEN albums.

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  6. #6
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    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
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    I wouldn't necessary say Van Hagar was more pop than Van Halen, but here what I will say:


    Van Hagar simply did not ROCK as much as Van Halen.

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    Eat Us And Smile!!!

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    But I'm the right tool for the job." - DLR 1998

  7. #7
    Emperor of VHLinks.com Brett's Avatar
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    12.11.17 @ 07:55 AM
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    What is this "Van Hagar" band to which some of you refer?

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  8. #8
    Sinner's Swing!
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    10.09.12 @ 02:50 PM
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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Brett:
    What is this "Van Hagar" band to which some of you refer?
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    They're a band who sold fewer albums than Van Halen but had more #1 albums than Van Halen I don't know why Van Hagar upsets the Sammycomelatelys (j/k)......I don't see any of Dave's name in Van Halen.

    Also it's shorter than typing Sammy-era Van Halen

  9. #9
    Atomic Punk Wolfman's Avatar
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    07.20.17 @ 03:43 PM
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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Brett:
    What is this "Van Hagar" band to which some of you refer?

    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Predecessor to the failed VanCreampuff project with Mitch Malloy, which was followed officially by Van Forgetthiseverhappened, also known as VanExtreme-ly bad idea. Happy to clear things up.


  10. #10
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    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
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    Regardless of how one feels about Van Halen v. Van Hagar, I think it's safe to say that one the whole Van Hagar was more poppy.

  11. #11
    Atomic Punk FORD's Avatar
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    10.22.17 @ 08:55 PM
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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Wolfman:
    Predecessor to the failed VanCreampuff project with Mitch Malloy, which was followed officially by Van Forgetthiseverhappened, also known as VanExtreme-ly bad idea. Happy to clear things up.

    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    LMFAO! Wolfman gets my nomination for "line of the week"



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    Eat Us And Smile!!

  12. #12
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    05.28.08 @ 07:33 PM
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    The Sammy stuff is more definately more pop than the Dave stuff. I never knew there was any question about that. Hell even Eddie would say that was true.

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  13. #13
    Hang 'Em High Stuff No More's Avatar
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    01.08.05 @ 11:08 AM
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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Brett:
    What is this "Van Hagar" band to which some of you refer?
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I ask myself the same thing all the time, Brett. I mean, I ran to my CDs, checked... and only found Van Halen. I guess those guys know something we don't

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    UP FRONT FANATIC!

  14. #14
    Atomic Punk MikeL's Avatar
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    03.03.15 @ 08:31 PM
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    Donor

    I've always thought that the music made with Sammy was more "poppy." It's definately more radio-friendly, IMO. Dave's stuff appeals to a slightly different crowd on the whole. It's got more of an edge to it. That being said, there's a whole lotta overlap to be found in those opinions. Hell, 3/4 of the band was consistent in each era. A lot of stuff didn't change, and some did.

  15. #15
    Ed6150
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    What was DANCE THE NIGHT AWAY ? I don't know , with Sam they were a different band so to speak . Good topic

 

 

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