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  1. #1
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    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
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    Could the whole VH3 experience be the real cause of the hold up? That is possible too. VH3 very well could have been a serious blow to Eddie's ego and confidence in making what HE thinks is good music. Could it be that Roth not working out yet again wasn't because of clashing personalities but rather Eddie just wasn't satisfied with results? Eddie said the music really wasn't that good, but yet Dave said it was amazing. Is Eddie now not confident in the music he writes because of 3's failures? Could this even be why 3's follow up was shelved? Is Eddie now simply afraid to put anything out because of possible negative reaction like with 3? Keep in mind as well, 3 was the first VH album to be bashed in such a harsh way, not only by critics, but also by the fans. That had to have hurt, especially when 3 was Eddie's 'baby'.


    To me VH3's weakest point was terrible production and mixing. If they had brought in a more seasoned producer I think it would have sounded a little different. Would it have made a difference? Who knows. I think there was some potential for some great songs, but in the end it just sounded like a demo to go into a studio with and say to a producer 'these are our idea's to start with'.

    I also think, although many will dissagree, work began too soon on 3. Not enough time was given for the Sammy out Dave in Dave out dust to settle. Well intentioned to get back out as quick as possible, but of course it backfired. Gary also sounded very strained, and wasn't given the opportunity to sound a little more natural, again, a good experienced producer would have paid more attention to that.

    Of course there was Eddie's obsession with control over everything. Was also his first chance to have absolute control with key personalities gone. This was his first chance to make 'his' album, which he kinda screwed up. Doubt that chance will be given to him again, at least with WB. I think that 3 had to be made, I think Eddie had some things to get out of his system which he has hopefully done. I also think it was genuine, and it was the best they could do at that time under the circumstances they were surrounded by. It still sounded like VH to me, just very misguided and not very well focused, which again an experienced producer would have reigned in from the get go.

    This of course is all speculative, but all other reasons and reasoning for such a delay have been exhausted. There has been no fighting between Dave and VH, so obviously the last failed attempt was a personal one. I just am really starting to wonder if the whole experience shook Eddie's confidence.
    Life is something that happens when your planning something else.

  2. #2
    Sinner's Swing! 79th and Sunset's Avatar
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    10.22.17 @ 12:35 PM
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    Ed and Al's confidence has got to be shaken after the abuse they have taken for their VH3 failure.

    Ed may have a little Tom Scholz disease going on now. This is different from LSD. Ha Ha

    But some serious blows to Ed's confidence and ego have taken place over the last few years. Then only to add health problems.

  3. #3
    Sinner's Swing! Mario VH's Avatar
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    07.09.17 @ 06:30 PM
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    I don't think the lack of commercial success with VH3 will be the determining factor as to whether Van Halen will put out another album. I simply think it's a combination of factors all playing a part in the bands hiatus. Van Halen's track record was impeccable before the disappoitment of 3 and talented muscians like Ed, Mike and Al shouldn't let that disappointment dictate whether they continue to exist as a band. Trust me when I say that Ed and Co. don't want to fade into the night without at least another album and tour. I'm sure something is in the works but it's dfinately taking it's sweet time coming to fruition.
    "It's now officially 5150 time!!!"

  4. #4
    Sinner's Swing! Rokgtar's Avatar
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    12.13.17 @ 03:30 PM
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    Excellent Post, Zadian - I actually agree with you for once!

  5. #5
    Atomic Punk Raldo's Avatar
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    12.13.17 @ 10:30 AM
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    I don't think the VH3 experience is the root cause but it is/was part of the problem. Eddie and Alex's health is a big reason but there are other unknown factors that only VH/DLR knows the answer to.
    Remember the Heroes - 9/11/01

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    "Look at all the people here tonight!!!" - 10/5/07, 5/20/08 Mohegan Sun

    Congratulations to Van Halen as part of the Class of 2007 Rock and Roll Hall of Fame!

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  6. #6
    The Dude Dan Halen's Avatar
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    09.26.07 @ 02:38 PM
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    Donor

    I think it's basically 3, health problems, and the failed reunion attempt with DLR. I'm not sure VH would have called it quits after 3 bombed. Although it hurt Eddie and maybe made him question if he can still write good songs, I don't think 3's failure is enough to make the band just stop making albums. They know that a reunion album with Dave or Sammy would be a huge success. But it looks like the first attempt with Dave didn't go through and Eddie probably won't make Sammy a possibility until he apologizes (unlikely).
    "It's so damn hot... milk was a bad choice." --Ron Burgundy, Anchorman

  7. #7
    Unchained Fat Tone's Avatar
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    03.29.15 @ 06:33 PM
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    I personally think that Eddie is too much of an artist to really give a shit about the "success" of another VH record no matter who is at the mic.
    His ability to write good songs is only calibrated by the ever changing public's ability to appreciate them and I think he know's that.
    Good posts guys!!
    "I Got Myself a Brand New Oakland Scarf right here I say"

  8. #8
    On Fire
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    05.24.08 @ 02:20 AM
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    Yeah exactly,Eddie's probably really sweating on those sales figures up there in his golf buggy,by the pool,next to the 12 car garage,watching the sun set over his 12 acre estate. [img]graemlins/devil.gif[/img]

  9. #9
    Hot For Teacher
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    02.17.17 @ 06:11 AM
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    The size of Ed's house or bank account really has nothing to do with his insecurity after VH3.

    All the talk about not caring about sales and being an artiste (with an "e"), whether from Ed, Dave, Sammy or any musician is bullshit. In my experience, all performing musicians crave some form of audience approval -- that's what gets them out on stage in the first place. If they did not truly have a desire for someone else to hear and enjoy their performance, they would not perform outside of their home.

    Truth is, VH3 was a bucket of ice water for Ed. Legions of fans, many of whom followed him instead of Dave from the initial breakup in 1985, told Ed to fuck off. That has to hurt.

  10. #10
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    05.24.08 @ 02:20 AM
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    <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Smokin' 5150:
    The size of Ed's house or bank account really has nothing to do with his insecurity after VH3.

    All the talk about not caring about sales and being an artiste (with an "e"), whether from Ed, Dave, Sammy or any musician is bullshit. In my experience, all performing musicians crave some form of audience approval -- that's what gets them out on stage in the first place. If they did not truly have a desire for someone else to hear and enjoy their performance, they would not perform outside of their home.

    Truth is, VH3 was a bucket of ice water for Ed. Legions of fans, many of whom followed him instead of Dave from the initial breakup in 1985, told Ed to fuck off. That has to hurt.
    <hr></blockquote>

    Hey smokin? just exactly what is your experience?

    Your post sounds exactly like something Eddie said in an interveiw years ago.

    O.k look,you're right. What musician wants to have people diss their stuff thumbs down like and abandon them the way many Van fans did back in '98?.None.

    But Edward has been around long enough to know that you can't write songs for the audience,you have to write for yourself,then if the audience likes it well you win.
    But if you try to be like Def Leppard or something and attempt to recreate past glories all the time and the fans hate it then you're double fucked,You might as well stay home.

    I actually happen to think 3 has some of the most fluent,uninhibited guitar playing that Eddie's ever put on tape,it's just the lyrics and vocals fuck it up and everything else sounds like shit.

    As has been mentioned before,Eddie definitely needs a proper producer filtering out all his ideas so the stay in some kind of focus.

    And I mean a real rock and roll knob turner that understands the complicated or not process of capturing a monsterous rythym section such as Van Halen's on tape.
    Not fuckin Mike (t.v show casio keyboard lounge room geek)Post,or Danny (Country rock)Kortchmar...

    [img]graemlins/devil.gif[/img]

  11. #11
    Atomic Punk hain23x's Avatar
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    12.11.17 @ 03:59 PM
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    yeah, they need someone who's not going to sit there like a schoolgirl and say "wow! it's Van Halen" [img]graemlins/scared.gif[/img]

    not that I'm the biggest Bob Rock fan or Metallica fan for that matter, but I remember watching their video "a year and half in the life" and Bob Rock bustin' their balls over some solo that Kirk was working on.. you need someone who is not afraid to say "hey, that sucks, I think you can do better"

    the best producer always brings out the best in an artist
    Eat Us and Smile!

  12. #12
    Atomic Punk FORD's Avatar
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    10.22.17 @ 08:55 PM
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    <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by hain23x:
    yeah, they need someone who's not going to sit there like a schoolgirl and say "wow! it's Van Halen" [img]graemlins/scared.gif[/img]

    not that I'm the biggest Bob Rock fan or Metallica fan for that matter, but I remember watching their video "a year and half in the life" and Bob Rock bustin' their balls over some solo that Kirk was working on.. you need someone who is not afraid to say "hey, that sucks, I think you can do better"

    the best producer always brings out the best in an artist
    <hr></blockquote>


    Exactly. That's what Eddie NEEDS from his producer, his bandmates, and his fans. The man who wrote Eruption, Cathedral, Mean Street, I'm the One , Spanish Fly, etc. should not be spewing out shit like "Can't Stop Cheesing You". He does so because frontmen like Hagar/Cherone and SHEEP for fans don't challenge him. Dave did and will again.

    Randy Rhoads was a fucking genius guitar player, but Ozzy wasn't afraid to challenge him. When they recorded Mr Crowley, Ozzy told him "that solo you're playing is total crap! You can do better. Randy was a little bit pissed off, but he channelled that into his guitar, and goddamn it, he DID do it better. And the solo you hear on that song is a fucking masterpiece, because Ozzy pushed him. And Randy probably pushed back, wasn't afraid to tell Ozzy when his lyrics, or singing were crap. That's why nothing Ozzy has done since will touch those 2 albums, and that's why he was unable to write with Black Sabbath.

    If Eddie could pull his head out of his ass, and ego long enough, he would realize the potential here to make THE album of his career. Because Dave and Eddie pushed each other to do their best on 6 albums, with Eddie being a drunk. How could a sober Eddie, pushed to do his best, be anything BUT a classic??

    It's exactly what Eddie needs, what Dave needs, and what the fans need. Or Van Halen is forever HISTORY.
    Eat Us And Smile

    Welcome back, Van HALEN!!!!

    ...It's the BAND and Dave is really the cat that can front VH. He sang his ASS off and was really cool. No cheese here guys, this is filet Mignon! - Steve Lukather's comment after witnessing a Van HALEN 2007 rehearsal

    "What then is this bleating of sheep in my ears?"- 1 Samuel 15:14

  13. #13
    Romeo Delight
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    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
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    FORD:

    excellent post.
    <b>In my veins courses the blood of the ancients... I am one of the rightful heirs to this planet!</b>

  14. #14
    Beloved Glenn's Avatar
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    02.13.15 @ 08:56 AM
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    Donor

    <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by FORD:
    Exactly. That's what Eddie NEEDS from his producer, his bandmates, and his fans. <hr></blockquote>In a sense, I agree with you, but that doesn't just apply to Eddie. The problem is that you've got a guy like DLR, and too many of his fans are happy to watch him sink further and further into yesterday.

    I can't understand how you can say that Eddie needs to be pushed by all these entities, and yet not be critical of the situation that Dave has put himself in. Dave isn't being pushed by producers, bandmates or fans to create better material any more than Eddie is. In fact, on the topic of the fans, the fans are supporting Dave's efforts to stand still and prop himself up on his work from 15-plus years ago, and that's creative death.

    Just a quick edit to add one thing. You talk about Ozzy pushing Randy, and Dave pushing Eddie, do you really think that Bart Walsh is going to be the guy to push Dave? Come on!! And Dave needs to be pushed as much as anyone, because his chops can run hot and cold by times.

    [ November 22, 2001 at 05:08 PM: Message edited by: Glenn ]</p>

  15. #15
    carpe damn diem billy007's Avatar
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    12.13.17 @ 01:02 PM
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    I still reserve judgement on Dave's future without considering his summer gigs. He is allegedly working on a new album - once that arrives I will decide whether or not he's been "pushed" or whatever. Hopefully it is not the rumoured live album from his summer gigs, because that doesn't really interest me at this point. Going to see Dave and his band perform Van Halen songs live may be of possible interest, but having an album of that experience is not. Now if Dave somehow got the rights to release some Van Halen live material from when he was in Van Halen, that I'd be interested in. It will also be interesting to see if he does release an album of new material - where does he go next? I still remember those words when his summer gigs were announced - "contracted to play Van Halen songs" - just doesn't sound right! I wonder if the majority of the dates he's played this year were by the same promoter - "hey, I've got some festivals this summer I'd like you to play - but you gotta play Van Halen songs, man". Until there is some interest in Dave performing his own stuff - which would probably only come with a major-lable release for his next album - I think the dates played this summer are going to be standard operating procedure no matter how many more albums of new material he releases. Dave's just doing what he needs to do to be able to get dates, even though you may not like it, you can't fault him for that.

 

 

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