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  1. #1
    On Fire Nature Boy's Avatar
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    09.04.12 @ 11:37 AM
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    Even if Dave came back on a new album and everything worked out like we wanted for a reunion, do you think that VH would just be grouped in with all the other old band comebacks like Styx, REO Speedwagon, KISS, etc.? I know we know there is a difference and we would buy into it, but generally, I just think they won't make any waves at all. They aren't manufactured enough.

  2. #2
    Beloved Glenn's Avatar
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    02.13.15 @ 08:56 AM
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    Donor

    No matter what, there would be a huge nostalgia factor because that's the angle that the media would approach it from. The media is much more likely to hype it by talking about the bands' past than their present or future. That will foster an image of nostalgia.

    And a large part of nostalgia comes from the perspective that the fans bring with them. I have to think that a large portion of the people that would attend a VH reunion show would be casual fans who wouldn't even be interested in a new album unless it had a bonifide hit on it. Therefore, their reaction is going to be keyed around the hits (Jump, Panama etc), further fostering the nostalgia angle. I don't think there's any question that the tour is likely to do much better business than the album.

    What should keep it from being entirely percieved that way will be the presentation of new material. If VH tries to keep a balanced show, with plenty of new material, they'll appear more current than if they take the easy way out and just play the hits.

    I'm gonna send this over to the Opinions/Speculation forum to try and light a fire under it. [img]smile.gif[/img]

    [ December 06, 2001 at 11:09 AM: Message edited by: Glenn ]</p>

  3. #3
    Atomic Punk hain23x's Avatar
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    12.11.17 @ 03:59 PM
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    Styx????
    REO Speedwagon?????


    when were either one of those groups cool???


    If U2 and Aerosmith are still on top then Van HALEN have the same opportunity
    Eat Us and Smile!

  4. #4
    Good Enough
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    03.30.13 @ 09:28 AM
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    If Van Halen's smart they'll tour before the release of an album to wake up the public to the fact that they're back. Then playing new material that will soon be released would make you more familiar with the up and coming songs, and would probably make the fans more eager to purchase the CD.

  5. #5
    Atomic Punk FORD's Avatar
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    10.22.17 @ 08:55 PM
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    <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by hain23x:
    Styx????
    REO Speedwagon?????


    when were either one of those groups cool???


    If U2 and Aerosmith are still on top then Van HALEN have the same opportunity
    <hr></blockquote>

    Come on bro, that's pretty harsh mentioning U2 in the same sentence with the mega-sellouts AeroShit...

    Just Push PAY......

    As for Styx, REO Speedaddicts, Journey, Foreigner, and the rest of those second stringers, they weren't all that great when they were real bands. They're even less cool now with fake singers and other phony members. And you can tell all my "friends" at Melodicrock I said so. For some reason all those hasbeens are worshipped over there....
    Eat Us And Smile

    Welcome back, Van HALEN!!!!

    ...It's the BAND and Dave is really the cat that can front VH. He sang his ASS off and was really cool. No cheese here guys, this is filet Mignon! - Steve Lukather's comment after witnessing a Van HALEN 2007 rehearsal

    "What then is this bleating of sheep in my ears?"- 1 Samuel 15:14

  6. #6
    Eruption
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    02.20.07 @ 03:36 PM
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    Do you see headlines in USA TODAY when the Styx think about reforming for another tour??

    I think a VH reunion could make huge waves, although they definitely flattened a few of them with the '96 fiasco.
    "I had a girl beating on my hotel door all night...She was screaming, crying. Finally, I said, 'What the hell'...and I let her out!"- DLR

  7. #7
    Atomic Punk hain23x's Avatar
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    12.11.17 @ 03:59 PM
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    yeah, FORD--i didn't want to put Tyler Spears in the same line with BONO but they were the only old school rockers i could think of

    I think if VH "gets it right" then 96fiasco will just be a sidenote for people

    and besides
    as Eddie would say "the thing that works for us is everybody thinks we're going to blow it. you just sit on the edge of your seat waiting for us to fall on our asses"
    or something like that
    Eat Us and Smile!

  8. #8
    Top Of The World Legoman's Avatar
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    12.09.17 @ 12:25 PM
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    It's a mystery to me why Aerosmith are still selling big. Who buys these records?
    BUT VH should take a leaf out of their book with the marketing angle. It seems to me that, with the exception of Ed Leffler, they've never had real professional management, always just friends/family/hangers-on. '96 DID burst what would have been a massive rebirth for the band but if they plan things right this time they might still attract a lot of folk who've deserted them over the years. Nostalgia or not, who cares?
    Use my hand, I won't look!

  9. #9
    Sinner's Swing! 79th and Sunset's Avatar
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    10.22.17 @ 12:35 PM
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    Van Halen should never be grouped with other bands, no other band would leave their fans hanging as long as the band Van Halen has !

    No new is No news !

  10. #10
    On Fire
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    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
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    <blockquote>quote:</font><hr> Legoman It's a mystery to me why Aerosmith are still selling big. Who buys these records?
    <hr></blockquote>

    Because they do the cheese ballads which gives a much broader market and airply on several different radio formats.

    <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Legoman BUT VH should take a leaf out of their book with the marketing angle. It seems to me that, with the exception of Ed Leffler, they've never had real professional management, always just friends/family/hangers-on. '96 DID burst what would have been a massive rebirth for the band but if they plan things right this time they might still attract a lot of folk who've deserted them over the years. Nostalgia or not, who cares? <hr></blockquote>

    Taking a leaf out of Aerosmith's book would mean dishing out some cheese, which would require Sammy and that would alienate yet again a certain segment of what is left of their (VH's) fan base. Dave would never do cheese, at least not to the level of Aerosmith, Bon Jovi, or even Sammy so that level of success I find to be rather remote. Yes a kick ass album with DLR and VH would be great for the fans, but it won't do well mainstream which is what they need to maximize sales. This is not the 1980's where that stuff is most most popular.

    Nostalgia is the only route VH really has. They are old, their music, while it is timeless, is also old. Evenanewalbum with Dave at the mic people are going to demand the old classics they haven't heard from the origonal line up in over 2 decades, I don't think the new stuff will be as well received as the old. Even all the other bands mentioned here pretty much concentrated on the material of years ago because that was what people wanted to hear, same will be true for VH. It may very well be that a new direction with any singer for VH is now not a real possibility, lots of new bands out there for that, and VH is old enough now to be labelled into that 'classic' stigma now, which I think they kinda have been for a while.

    This is not to slam VH or any particular singer, it is just a fact of reality. Question is do you (fans) want VH to be huge and popular again? Then you will have to put up with Sammy and various assortments of huge cheese slices. If you want a hard rocking album Dave will be the guy, but sales won't be what you would like, or popularity, as Dave won't do the cheese, is a little out of his character, I just can't picture Dave doing a song like 'Love Walks In', I could never take it seriously, I would always wonder 'ok, when does the joke come in' *lol* Either scenerio is fine with me, don't much care with a preference anymore, I wouldn't mind a 4th singer cuz then I could see them in a local bar *lol*
    Life is something that happens when your planning something else.

  11. #11
    Eruption
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    02.20.07 @ 03:36 PM
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    I've gotta respectfully disagree with you, Zadian. While I don't think VH could ever sell records like they used to, the one thing the band has going for them is TONS of VH fans will buy a new VH album with David Lee Roth. After the whole reunion fiasco, the BEST OF still sold well, and mainly on the promise of two reunion songs. If the original VH reunited, the press would have a field day. Now, I'm not saying that would sell a ton of records. But, if the Gary line-up could still have a Gold album, then the original line-up could still have a platinum or double-platinum (or even triple if they do have a catchy single...they still could, you know). Unfortunately, it's not 1984 anymore. No, records won't sell like they used to. But the tour will. The thing one has to understand is that any reunion with Dave will generate a lot of media hype...free promotion, let's say. Warners had to shell out a ton for the Cherone joke, and they didn't get enough return. The media didn't care. They didn't want much part of it. But you'll see VH on Entertainment Tonight and everywhere else if Dave comes back. Again, if USA TODAY prints a full entertainment story (still) based on nothing but reunion rumors, the media interest is there.

    A reunion with Sammy wouldn't generate much media interest. Yes, an album with Sam could sell. But I don't think it could outsell a Dave album. BALANCE sold not based on Sammy interest but because young fans were sold on the (cheese) singles. Good album, but the singles were the worst tracks (IMHO). I think a Dave album could surprise people. If they did an inventive enough video like in the old days (with some digital technology covering up their age and hair loss a bit), then MTV would back them up. They did in '96.

    As for seeing some older bands that have sold out, I saw Aerosmith twice. And both shows were actually just note-perfect rehashes of their greatest hits from the 1980's and 1990's. Both shows were pretty bad (especially on the NINE LIVES tour). I went to see them dig up old chestnuts from their 70's albums, but I instead had to sit through LOVE IN AN ELEVATOR, RAG DOLL, JANIE'S GOT A GUN, etc. for both shows. It was pretty sad. And the worst thing about it is that this is what the crowd wanted. I don't like at all where Aerosmith's gone...they seem to write songs with the pure intent of putting it on the radio with little care for creativity or innovation. They used to be a very creative band. And they know what they're doing. This is what sells. This is what people want. Who are these people??

    Anyway, Dave is indeed not into cheese. But for some reason (which I understand!), he's what the average public remembers of Van Halen, and the guy can still put together a catchy song.
    "I had a girl beating on my hotel door all night...She was screaming, crying. Finally, I said, 'What the hell'...and I let her out!"- DLR

  12. #12
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    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
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    Rikk I pretty much agree with what you have said, but my slight angle on it is that with all the free publicity it will get with the hype of Dave returning, will it be enough to sustain album sales long term? You can be assured there will be at least one catchy tune for sure. But the reality of the music biz today is that to get huge sales you need some cheese. I bet Creed's Human Clay would never have had the sales it did without 'Arms Wide Open', there is no way. And yes sales will definately be strong with Dave for the first little while, but to sustain it a little cheese would be needed, so I have to maintain my position that over the long run a Sammy CD would outsell, and I ain't saying that to bash Dave either. But Hey! Dave is full of surprises, if he agreed to a little cheese, well then sky is the limit.

    As for a tour people are gonna want to hear all the old classic stuff. If you personally had your choice of say all classic stuff with the single's and maybe one other song off a new album, or like their previous tours (except III) the whole new CD with a few previous songs which would you choose? I would have to say a tour would be heavely laced with old material as that is what people will want, and probably even with the same old 'you shit sugar' lines which brings it back to what it will be...Nostalgia. But hey, nothing wrong with that, Nostalgia shows sell, and it is the nostalgia that sells them, meaning it is what the people want.
    Life is something that happens when your planning something else.

  13. #13
    Atomic Punk hain23x's Avatar
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    12.11.17 @ 03:59 PM
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    there are plenty of bands that have never sold alot of records but still had VERY big tours.

    The Dead
    Phish
    Rolling Stones for the last 15+ years haven't sold alot of records but their tours are always huge.

    no matter what some of you guys think, VH/Roth tour will be big.

    KISS, in all their silliness, managed to have one of the biggest tours of the year when they reunited ==without an album or single, or video from a single.


    and we can bag on Mtv, but Mtv has a hard-on for VH/DLR even after the fiasco... hell, they still play new Ozzy on Mtv and his new song is less than stellar


    you guys can speculate on it all you want, but it still won't make a difference--it WILL be big.

    people were mad as hell at VH in 96 but that Best of record still sold , what, couple of million??

    I just hope it doesn't cost a zillion$$$ to go see it cuz I plan on seeing it at least 3 or 4 times when it hits the ground runnin'

  14. #14
    Eruption
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    02.20.07 @ 03:36 PM
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    You know, you may be right. A Dave album would have big initial sales probably no matter what. Sustaining it? Yep, a hit single or three. I think they could possibly pull it off. There may also have been a lot of pressure which delayed or cancelled the reunion of summer 2000 simply because the record company wants to let their A&R guys be involved with this one. Record companies usually do this if the previous album was a bomb. Even with Dave back, the record company will want to protect its investment and will thus be involved in choosing what's catchy, what needs work, etc. There's no way they'll let Eddie create a self-indulgent work like VH3 ever again (on their label).

    But don't forget, Sammy sales were just slowly starting to slide around the time of BALANCE. It was a big hit, but the slow downslide seemed imminent, and the record company welcomed the reunion for the quick revenue it would generate. I really think if the band comes up with a helluva catchy album, maybe not the completely artistic route but still good, then the band will succeed. I don't want another DIVER DOWN (in style)...I want another 1984. Not something that sounds the same, but something with the same adventurous spirit yet sense of commerciality. Could they do it? God only knows. The album probably won't be all ME WISE MAGIC's. That probably wouldn't sell long-term.

    As for the tour, I'd actually prefer hearing a lot of new material with some of the old material. It would make me feel like I'm seeing a current band. I didn't feel at all that I was seeing a current band on the 3 tour. I thought I was seeing a cover band with a bad singer. I would like maybe eight new songs along with nine or ten classic...no Sammy songs. Well, maybe one (if Dave could do it). Seven songs from the new album mixed in with RUNNIN' WITH THE DEVIL, I'M THE ONE, JAMIE'S CRYIN', BOTTOMS UP, ROMEO DELIGHT, UNCHAINED, HEAR ABOUT IT LATER, LITTLE GUITARS, THE FULL BUG, HOT FOR TEACHER, PANAMA and JUMP. That would do it for me. I also wouldn't mind if they threw in ME WISE MAGIC. They'd be still current (with a new fresh-sounding album), and still show off what a great band they were.

    Ahhh, fantasies. Well, maybe it's not that unrealistic.

    You know, Zadian, I know you weren't slagging Dave. And Sammy's not that bad. I watched LIVE WITHOUT A NET yesterday for the first time in three years. What a great video. Do you like it?
    "I had a girl beating on my hotel door all night...She was screaming, crying. Finally, I said, 'What the hell'...and I let her out!"- DLR

  15. #15
    Beloved Glenn's Avatar
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    02.13.15 @ 08:56 AM
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    Donor

    I don't think there's any doubt that someone will be pushing Van Halen to go the Aerosmith route. And before you start screaming heresy, allow me to explain how I think it's not only possible, but could be very cool.

    I'm not talking about any songs like I Don't Wanna Miss a Thing, but there are two Aerosmith songs that were both singles that I think are right up VH's (Dave's specifically) alley style-wise, and would satisfy radio programmers without being sellout songs. Those two songs are Crazy and What it Takes. Those are what I refer to as slow blues songs, though I'm sure the tempo alone would cause people to label them as ballads. Label them anything you want, I think they are cool bluesy songs, not cheesy ballads, and songs of this style would get them mainstream airplay.

    VH could easily do songs in that vein. Some of my favorite DLR solo songs are this exact type of song; Tell the Truth, Black Sand (a fucking amazing song), Right Tool For the Job, Sensible Shoes, Experience, Night Life, and Sunburn.

    In fact, I think Dave's voice is WAY more suited to this type of material now than it is for aggressive, fast paced, rock songs. Dave's not the type to write 'I love you' lyrics anyway, but ballads tend to be labelled as such as much for the tempo of the song as for the lyrics. VH playing slow bluesy tunes (think about Eddie laying down some solos for these) while Dave is wailing about the State of the Union on Planet Roth and you've got a recipe for selling singles and getting radio play without stooping to writing typical sellout ballads.

 

 

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