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Thread: Urgency

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    Unchained Fat Tone's Avatar
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    03.29.15 @ 06:33 PM
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    Having now waited for two years now,on a new,revitalized,reunited with Sammy Or Dave,redifined,or possibly a "dissolving of the band"announcement,it's pretty clear to me that Edward does not feel any sense of urgency about the band.
    Granted,he is dealing with cancer and that will put just about everything else on the way in the back,broken ass burner.
    One of the reasons for my opinion on this is the amount of recordings that they have from over the span of their career.
    These guys could(and I wish they would)put out volumes of music from just the unreleased stuff alone.
    You have to wonder if in the back of Ed's mind,he'll just tell Warner Bros. to put that shit out and leave him the fuck alone if things don't work out EXACTLY like anal Edward need them to be;musicwise and busineswise.
    That would be an easy option for all parties involved because all of the contributing singers would get "new" royalty money without ever having to deal with th VH bros.(to a large extent)
    And as far as us "fans" are concerned,it would be new music.VH knows that a collection like that,marketed well with a DVD compilation of unreleased stuff as well,would be recieved great by the pretty thirsty VH fanbase.(however small it is becoming)
    They(in my opinion)really don't think that time is of the essence as far as getting the show rolling again and are probably enjoying a good span of homelife uninterrupted for the first time in a while if not ever.
    That's fine with me.
    Just fucking tell us,that's all.
    Loyalty will wain without information to the people.(I always wanted to be a politician.That would be a pretty good speech quote eh?)

    I'm intersted in what anyone thinks about my little theory. [img]smilies/cool.gif[/img]
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    Beloved Glenn's Avatar
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    02.13.15 @ 08:56 AM
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    Donor

    I wonder how much of the lack of urgency and the lack of concrete information stems from Edward being pissed off at us, the fans.

    Edward has mentioned in the past that he felt held down by Dave, that Dave basically told him to "shut up and play your guitar" when Eddie wanted to expand his own vision of VH to include keyboards. The whole III situation was probably a big slap in the face to Eddie; many would argue that he deserved that slap in the face, but it's irrelevant whether he did or didn't. What is relevant is that Eddie is human, and most of us get defensive and angry when we're faced with failure.

    My feeling is that in the post III era, he has basically perceived us fans to have said to him exactly what he felt Dave was saying, "shut up and play your guitar". Only now it's compounded by the fact that not only does his fan base want him to "shut up and play guitar", they want him to "shut up and play guitar alongside someone you don't trust".

    There's no question that the artist owes us nothing, and we owe the artist nothing. Music, when it's sold in a store, is a product. But I still believe that Eddie's feelings are hurt by the lack of success of III. Eddie took more command than ever of his vision, and faced his biggest commercial failure. Being human, and being as gifted an artist as he is, I believe that Eddie blames us for not being ready for III, not himself for it's shortcomings.

    And I totally agree that it's time to open up the vaults. It wouldn't even need to be a single comprehensive box set, it could be Beatles Anthology type thing. The first thing could be a double cd of the club era; the WB demo along with a complete concert from their days before being signed. The subsequent releases would probably be live things, as well as a few songs that didn't make the cut.

    And Eddie has constantly stated that whatever a fan wants, they can get. If they want the Dave era, it's available, as is the Sammy era etc. So why wouldn't Eddie give his blessings to a DVD/VHS release of a concert from the Dave era? The fans would eat it up, and it's almost criminal that that important era of the band is almost non-existant in video form outside of bootlegging.

    A release like this would give a perception to the world that the Dave/Eddie feud is overstated, and at the same time allows the legend to be continued without either of them having to work together. Beyond some vague consulting, it wouldn't really be necessary for them to work on this together. Of course, this is a group that hasn't even put LWAN onto DVD yet, so I'm probably way out to lunch on this.

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    03.30.13 @ 09:28 AM
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    Good post, Glenn.

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    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
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    Glenn, you make some good points in your post. However, if you read Eddie's interviews done BEFORE the release of VH3, he was already quite uneasy with the whole project, and he seemed to expect that many fans would simply 'not get it'. Although he meant it in the artistic way, it turned out to mean the same thing in terms of sales. He was also nervous about taking it on the road. He KNEW in advance that the average fan was going to have difficulty accepting the changes. However...

    If he's truly the 'artist' he was claiming to have finally become, then the poor reception shouldn't bother him all that much. He was somewhat expecting a cold reception from the outset, and his premonitions were obviously well-founded.

    Of course, he also alluded to getting OUT of the music business several times as well. Maybe he WANTED to retire Van Halen, and the failure of VH3 provided him an excuse to do so. After all, it's been 2 years since Gary's official departure, and the band is apparently nowhere near having a new project ready to go. That, of course, would be a big slap in the face, since they have the nerve to keep the fans' hopes up by NOT saying anything regarding the past 2 years, the present, or the future.

    Then again, if this is all a case of Ed's sour grapes over VH3, he's probably not in any psychological condition to handle risking ANY release whose success is not an assured success and redemption.

    It looks to me like they've retired in sort of a musical 'unintentional-intentional walk'.
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    Unchained Fat Tone's Avatar
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    03.29.15 @ 06:33 PM
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    Glenn,you are an eloquent mofugga.
    That post was a great one and furthered you'r personal thought process into a well written opinion.
    Just for the record,I think VH III kicked ass completely and it is a shame that it did NOT do better.
    I personally don't think though,that fans dissed it for it's artistic/commercial(lack of) value.
    I think fans were pissed off by being blue balled for the most part on the NON Roth reunion fiasco and then were alienated by the fact that Cherone(a great singer IMO) was either trying to,or was being made to sound like Hagar.Even I was at the point of "whatever" with these guys.It took me awhile to really dig into VH III and appreciate it as a great record.
    If I were in the VH camp, and let's say that the reunion with Dave is on for a new record,I would STILL release that old unreleased shit as well as a new record.That would really give VH a shot in the arm with a "this is what it used to be and this is what you'r getting ready to get more of" kind of a vibe.
    They would sell tons.
    But what do I know eh?
    God knows I've been wrong(misinformed) before. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]
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    02.13.15 @ 08:56 AM
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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AbeVanHalen:
    If he's truly the 'artist' he was claiming to have finally become, then the poor reception shouldn't bother him all that much. He was somewhat expecting a cold reception from the outset, and his premonitions were obviously well-founded.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I agree, and I've read some of those interviews where Eddie was a bit defensive about the potential of 3 and the tour. And there's no question in my mind that Eddie percieves himself as an artist (probably to a fault).

    But with the previous track record of Van Halen albums, and due to sheer human nature, I still believe that Eddie was hurt by the (relative) failure of the project.

    Artist or not, when you put your time and effort into something, and it proceeds to get crucified from all angles, that's got to hurt. And again, few of us blame ourselves (at least initially) for a mis-step. Gotta blame someone. We supported him when he was a brand new artist, we supported him when he made a (self described) poor album of half cover songs, we supported him when he went in a keyboard direction, we supported him when Dave left, we supported him all the way until 1996. Then things changed and that support was scaled back dramatically.

    We tend to think that Eddie changed. I think he's pissed that we didn't.

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    Unchained Fat Tone's Avatar
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    03.29.15 @ 06:33 PM
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    I really don't think that Edward gives that much thought into whether or not HE as an artist will get fan support.
    He does not need his ego stroked.As far as music is concerned,he has always said that whatever he feels like writing and whatever he writes it on is what he will play.(What was the one about playing a Tuba song and calling it "Mustard on My Leg")
    If anything,I think that Edward would like to find a singer that shares in his same vision(creatively)and it probably chagrins Edward to think that the fans overall want to hear NEW VH that brings them back to the 80's.I think that Edward looks at DLR as THE 80's posterchild(even though they may be getting along or are at least on good/better terms)
    I can't see it sounding like that after their efforts on "Me Wise Magic" and "Stuff No More".Those songs ruled and Edward new that they ruled.Fans went apeshit over those songs(even most Sammy fans that I know).
    If I could tell Edward anything at this point about his artistry,it would be to do whatever he wants to and enjoy it.And if it sells,great and if it doesn't,who gives a shit?He is Edward Van Halen for God's sake.
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    carpe damn diem billy007's Avatar
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    12.15.17 @ 05:35 PM
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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fat Tone:
    ...If anything,I think that Edward would like to find a singer that shares in his same vision(creatively)and it probably chagrins Edward to think that the fans overall want to hear NEW VH that brings them back to the 80's...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    If this is really what drives Edward (and I feel it is possible) the solution is simple - don't call it "Van Halen" - could call it the "Edward Van Halen Project" (and I hate when bands are called "projects") but ideally he'd want to keep his name out of it. For even though some people around here will disagree, when most folks think of Van Halen, they have a certain sound in mind, and it's not all eminating from Edward's guitar. Whether they're Dave fans or Sammy fans, they are not going to be accepting of anything that doesn't sound like either of the two - it's too far along in the game now and music has changed too much for "Van Halen" to sound different. Those are the cold, hard facts. So if Edward has a vision for his music that's different from what we've heard before, good for him. Just quit trying to sell it to the masses as "Van Halen".

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    Unchained Fat Tone's Avatar
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    03.29.15 @ 06:33 PM
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    Billy007,that is a GREAT point.
    I COMPLETELY agree with you.
    Edward could create and release whatever he wants to artistically,without being in "Van Halen"
    "I bet he would give Yanni a swift kick in the ass!! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
    But he does need to realize that most Van Halen fans,doexpect a certain type of sound,direction,concept,and vibe;whomever is holding the microphone!!


    Also,I'm really enjoying everybody's posts on this thread,this is awesome!!
    "I Got Myself a Brand New Oakland Scarf right here I say"

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    12.10.17 @ 12:26 PM
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    Great posts everyone!

    I certainly agree that its time to open the vault. I've had this fantasy about driving down the road listening to 95X out of Syracuse and hearing an annoucement about some rare VH material being released very soon. Glenn hit the nail on the head. There are probably all sorts of "Gems" in Edwards closet. In this time of uncertainty, they should just release some of it. Sure, legally it could be a hassle. But With the legal bills Corporate Van Halen pays, its about time they got something for their money. I've always felt it was very odd how VH has never released old live music or Videos. As a fan, I would rush to my nearest music store for such "Gems"! Regarding Edward, I truly think he just wants some time away from the pressure cooker known as the Music Business. I'm sure with the Cancer, Val's new gig, the Wolf man and maybe his own confidence being a bit tested from VH III he felt he needed a break. Sadly, I just hope it isn't permanent. Anyway, great posts....Peace
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    Hang 'Em High Stuff No More's Avatar
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    01.08.05 @ 11:08 AM
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    In business there is a right way and a wrong way to do things. Considering the events from 1996 on, some of the changes I would make are:

    Best of Videos: I'd include AT LEAST every studio video that had been shot up until the time the DVD/video had been released. That basically means including Pretty Woman, Feels So Good, Top of the World, and Amsterdam, plus I'm sure there are others I'm missing.

    Remasters: Some might argue with this, but I'd partially open the vaults on these. Include something new or previously unreleased on each album. The Dave era albums could have songs from the demo on them, especially "earlier cuts" on some of them (Down in Flames on VH2, Voodoo Queen on FW, Last Night on DD, etc). For the Sammy stuff (which I would have remastered as well), put on unreleased songs or things that only made it to the singles (I Want Some Action on 5150, Crossing Over on Balance, etc).

    V-H.com: Even if I wanted to keep who I was working with a secret, I think I would have a "weekly update with VH" on the site. Just a little blurb penned by one of the members each week that talks about either what they've worked on the past week, or perhaps stories or favorite memories from previous tours/albums. Even without telling the fans who I was working with, this would keep them off my back.

    Other Releases: So it looks like it would be a long time until my next album. I'd dig into the vaults to fill the gap. LWAN would hit DVD. As part of a matched pair, I'd dig up an old DLR concert and put it out on DVD/video so both eras are represented. This serves as a nice stopgap measure to keep the fans happy.

    It doesn't take much to keep fans happy and keep good PR. You have to wonder if anyone in camp VH even thinks for a moment, otherwise they'd figure this out.
    "Just once I'd like to do the right thing and not get punished for it."

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    02.13.15 @ 08:56 AM
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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by billy007:
    when most folks think of Van Halen, they have a certain sound in mind, and it's not all eminating from Edward's guitar. Whether they're Dave fans or Sammy fans, they are not going to be accepting of anything that doesn't sound like either of the two - it's too far along in the game now and music has changed too much for "Van Halen" to sound different. Those are the cold, hard facts. So if Edward has a vision for his music that's different from what we've heard before, good for him. Just quit trying to sell it to the masses as "Van Halen".<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Okay, but what if Dave came back, and they agreed to do a total left hand turn with the music? It's got the musicianship of Ed, Al, and Mikey, and the vocals of Dave, but stylistically sounds NOTHING like the Van Halen sound you speak of. Would you still want it to be called 'Van Halen'?

    Does the appearance of the four original members automatically make it 'Van Halen', regardless of the music presented?

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    Unchained Fat Tone's Avatar
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    03.29.15 @ 06:33 PM
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    Originally posted by Glenn:
    [QB]Okay, but what if Dave came back, and they agreed to do a total left hand turn with the music? It's got the musicianship of Ed, Al, and Mikey, and the vocals of Dave, but stylistically sounds NOTHING like the Van Halen sound you speak of. Would you still want it to be called 'Van Halen'?

    Does the appearance of the four original members automatically make it 'Van Halen', regardless of the music presented [/QUOTE]


    I personally think that if Dave had sung the exact same words to the exact same songs on VH III,the record would have been huge.
    The lack of success on that album was do more to fans pissed at the non reunion, IMO.

    So I would have to say yes,VH with Dave or Sammy in a completely new direction would still be considered Van Halen.
    When U2 did Achtung Baby,that was a totally different sound,But It was U2. [img]smilies/thumb.gif[/img]

    These posts rock guys!!
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    12.15.17 @ 05:35 PM
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    Glenn, you ask a good question and Fat Tone you make a good comparison with the U2 thing. I never think about U2's sound because to me they sound different on just about every album. Van Halen to me always had a pretty consistent sound - sure there was some change from Van Halen to 1984 - but not so much it wasn't recognisable anymore. Any band's sound has to change - recording techniques, miking techniques, equipment all improve, musicians change instruments, change components of those instruments like strings and pickups and hell, even different drumsticks can sound different. Anyway, as I spiral further and further away from where I was...I think it's easier to get away with sounding different when the players are the same - anyone think Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band sounds like Please Please Me - then if you start mixing in different players - certainly Van Halen would sound different if Ace Frehley was playing the guitar or Les Claypool was playing bass, even if they did covers of their own (Van Halen's) songs, you can tell it's different moreso than you can if Dave, Ed, Alex and Mike (or Sammy instead of Dave) are on the recording.
    I think...

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    Sinner's Swing! Mario VH's Avatar
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    07.09.17 @ 06:30 PM
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    Some great discussion happening here and I though I'd interject my 2 cents. I think the fans would perceive it to be Van Halen just as long as the original parties were back together. VH with Dave could never really venture too far in the ecclectic sense with the music they could produce. I think in some sense and I know Ed has said this in the past the band was limited to some of the things they could do with Dave. In that case the music would always have that classic VH vibe. On the other hand a song like Me Wise Magic wasn't exactly your typical DLR/VH collaboration ala the good old days. Maybe Ed underestimates Daves abilities in pushing the envelop with some of the music that Ed would like to play and produce. Who knows what's going to take place in the next few months? We'd all love to see Van Halen back on the road but let's remember things have changed quite a bit since Sept.11th. Maybe it's not just Ed's battle with cancer or VH trying to decide which direction to go in. Maybe it's simply a case of Ed, Al and Mike spending time with their families. I have no idea what it's like to be in a rock n' roll machine like Van Halen and the amount of dedication and time a band like that must have in order to make music and tour. It's probably safe to assume thatt up until the departure of Gary the band probably spent more time to together then they did with their families. With things being as uncertain as they are the boys may be just laying low and taking care of what's most important-their families.
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