Follow us on...
Follow us on Twitter Follow us on Facebook Watch us on YouTube
Register
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 44
  1. #1
    Eruption
    Join Date
    12.11.01
    Location
    Milwaukee, WI
    Posts
    973
    Favorite VH Album

    Fair Warning
    Favorite VH Song

    Meanstreet
    Last Online

    05.18.12 @ 09:24 AM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Well, for lack of anything better to write about I'd like to open up this can of worms: What do you think caused the breakup in 85? Who do you blame?

    Here's my theory: (short version)

    Control/Egos caused the breakup.

    I think that Dave basically ran VH up until the 1984 album and didn't like Eddie horning in on his control. When Eddie pushed for more and more control I think Dave left.

    Who do I blame? I blame Dave (GASP! This from a DLR head? )Yep, that's right I blame Dave. I think he released CFTH and when it was a big success he decided he didn't need Eddie and the boys.

    I just wish there would have been a way for them to share control. Obviously they both had some good ideas.

    One thing that was probably a big problem between the two was Dave loved doing covers and Eddie was sick of them.

    Anyway, that's my short version of what I think happened. What's yours?

  2. #2
    The Dude Dan Halen's Avatar
    Join Date
    07.16.00
    Age
    32
    Location
    Corvallis, OR, USA
    Posts
    9,345
    Last Online

    09.26.07 @ 02:38 PM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts


    Donor

    I basically agree with everything you said. At that point, Dave thought he was bigger than the band and that he would better off by himself and have total control. With the new 5150 studio Ed gained more control, which upset Dave. Another thing was that they disagreed on when they should start working on a new album. Dave was excited and ready to get to work again while Ed wanted to take a well-deserved break. Of course CFTH followed, and Dave didn't want to put up with VH anymore.
    "It's so damn hot... milk was a bad choice." --Ron Burgundy, Anchorman

  3. #3
    Atomic Punk
    Join Date
    05.28.00
    Location
    dirtland, usa
    Posts
    15,878
    Favorite VH Album

    the classic 6 pack
    Favorite VH Song

    hmmm...everybody wants some
    Last Online

    12.18.17 @ 08:29 AM
    Likes
    242
    Liked 985 Times in 396 Posts

    i think the fame went to dave's head. i think jump pissed him off. it was a great song, but it had ed written all over it and not dave. dave never wanted it on the album. dave always felt that he alone was van halen, hence his departure in 85. so then he fines a bunch of vh clones (no disrespect to those guys, but the euas band ain't no fuckin vh) and names his next album eat em and smile. vintage dave...still thinking he's 18 again.

    i'm sure egos clashed and such. but answer me this...if they were on top of the world in 84, why the fuck would you leave the band??

    JMJ
    "you can't change JMJ, it's legendary"- Brett Norton 9/24/07

    "It's the "JMJ" everyone had grown to love, man! Time to blow the roof off this place!"
    -Zachenfoot 2/23/10

    "The links just look a little better with JMJ. Always has, always will." -Hurricane Halen 2/24/10

    "I'm doin' the victory dance. Told ya I'd be back. Tell me ya missed me. Say it like ya mean it" - Blood and Fire. =VH= 2012. Welcome back boys :headband:

    "I don't give a flying fuck about Motley Crue. I give about a half a fuck about Rush. I like Van Halen and don't give a flying fuck how many tickets they all sell. Any questions?"- jimmyw

  4. #4
    carpe damn diem billy007's Avatar
    Join Date
    04.19.00
    Age
    54
    Location
    On the wild card line...
    Posts
    28,685
    Favorite VH Song

    "Dance The Night Away"
    Last Online

    12.18.17 @ 05:32 AM
    Likes
    1,046
    Liked 1,351 Times in 927 Posts

    I think after the 1984 tour, Dave was anxious to get back to work. The band wasn't right ready to go, so on a whim he put together the Crazy From The Heat ep and was thinking about his movie, but he really wanted to make Van Halen's next album, but Edward was dragging his feet (although it's not as bad as Dave would have you think - Glenn broke down the time line for us before), and for Dave things weren't happening quick enough - Dave didn't have a family as all the others did so he could devote 24/7 to being "David Lee Roth: rock star" and he did. But it wasn't just the pace Edward and the others were moving at, but also when they did come up with a piece of music, some of it was what would become stuff like "Love Walks In" and "Dreams", and having had to deal with "Jump" and "I'll Wait", Dave wanted no part of that. Edward wasn't winning those guitar magazine polls on the merits of his keyboard playing. Besides, Dave thought, how's he supposed to play keyboards and guitar at the same time (this was still before the day when it became the norm for a band to pump in pre-recorded "missing" instruments during concerts)? Nope, not gonna do it, Dave thought. Plus I believe Edward was giving him flack for Crazy From The Heat and Dave this didn't sit well with Dave either - Edward had gone and worked with other people - why couldn't he? So you had animosity brewing on several different fronts. Meanwhile, a surprising thing was happening - that little ep that Dave had made was doing quite well on the charts, and the videos he'd made were getting rave reviews. Although it's not what he preferred, he knew if Edward didn't shape up, he at least had something he could fall back on. Now, Van Halen became a high-stakes game of poker. Would Dave play the "solo" card? Would Edward call his bluff? The answer to both of those questions, unfortunately was yes. I believe that in the back of his mind, when Dave said he was leaving, he fully expected Edward to want to do whatever it would take to keep him in the band. Boy was he wrong!

  5. #5
    Banned!
    Join Date
    10.02.01
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    349
    Favorite VH Album

    VAN HALEN I
    Last Online

    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Many things but in a nutshell

    Dave wanted to work [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img]

    Eddie was drunk and stoned 24/7 [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img]

  6. #6
    Sinner's Swing! 79th and Sunset's Avatar
    Join Date
    08.19.00
    Age
    49
    Posts
    2,923
    Last Online

    10.22.17 @ 12:35 PM
    Likes
    3
    Liked 16 Times in 4 Posts


    Premium Member
    In the Stern interviews, Dave says Ed & Alex were too drunk, stoned, and high on coke to formulate any music.

    Dave was drunk and stoned too though........

    Egos, drugs,....etc., etc., etc.,

  7. #7
    Beloved Glenn's Avatar
    Join Date
    11.16.99
    Posts
    16,192
    Last Online

    02.13.15 @ 08:56 AM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 8 Times in 1 Post


    Donor

    I blame Michael "The Ego" Anthony!!!!!!!

    Actually, I believe that Dave was watching Eddie become more and more lost in his drug fog, and finally Dave got worried that Eddie was going to become a drug casualty. So instead of waiting around to see for sure, Dave decided to get out before the ship sank; once again proving the old saying that it's Women, Children and Lead Singers First. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

    I believe that Crazy From the Heat was planned earlier than Dave suggests, because I think he saw Ed's deterioration for years, and wondered what the possibility was of the 'David Lee Roth' name being big enough to sustain an audience.

    I don't really believe the notion that Dave thought he was bigger than the band though. No question the guy had (has) a huge ego, but that's just part of the job description. I doubt Dave realistically thought he was going to go on to 10 consecutive multi-platinum solo albums.

    And while you could argue that Jump and the massive sales of 1984 should have told Dave to stay, I think it scared him in a way. When you have a huge hit like that, it brings in a lot of casual fans who simply aren't going to stick with the band; and in fact, those casual fans can help to alienate the hard core fans, which I'll give an example of here in a moment. Clearly the keyboards were not Dave's idea, and he was uncomfortable on their encroachment (sp?) on the Van Halen sound. So Dave probably saw Jump (and presumably the new material EVH was presenting in early 1985) as a more temporary type of music, one that would ultimately be less stable for them.

    Along this line of thought, I bet Dave was aware of what had happened to KISS. KISS had a good core of rock fans in 1977, then they hit the next level, and in order to hit that next level they tapped into a newer group (read, a younger group) of fans; similar to how Jump brought a newer group of fans to Van Halen. But then KISS got lost, confused about how to cater to their old fans and keep them happy, and how to keep a hold on these new fans. By 1979, KISS had lost their musical footing, and started riding trends, losing a large number of their fans. In 1980, KISS released an album that did so poorly they did only 1 American concert date. Then they released an album in 1981 that did even worse, and there was no tour at all. One could easily argue that KISS have NEVER regained their footing.

    I think Dave felt that the whole Jump situation split them, and he wasn't confident that they could ride the fence between what the old group of fans wanted, and what the new group of fans wanted.

    Couple all that together, and Dave probably felt he had a short window of opportunity left in the rock spotlight. He had already reached a level of fame that few reach, and sustained it for 6 consecutive quality (and successful) albums. At some point he must have known his time would be up, better to get away from a sinking ship and tack a couple of extra years onto the career.

    Ultimately though, it was a mistake in my opinion. That, to me, is the key reason VH can't get their shit together NOW; by bailing on the band, Dave shattered the bond with Eddie. I don't believe that bond can ever be fully repaired.

    The funny thing is though, after all the trouble that EVH brought by bringing keyboards into the music, Dave has used them quite a lot in his solo work. And given the Jump theory that many of us believe, it's funny to realize that Dave shoved the keyboard heavy Just Like Paradise down Steve Vai's throat (Steve HATED that song), and that was likely one of the contributing factors to that relationship breaking up.

  8. #8
    Romeo Delight
    Join Date
    02.28.02
    Age
    50
    Location
    indiana
    Posts
    49
    Favorite VH Album

    women and children first
    Favorite VH Song

    thatslikeaskingwhatmyfavjunkfoodis
    Last Online

    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Dear fellow Vanhalenheads, READ Dave's book, "CRAZY FROM THE HEAT" for more info about the breakup, at least from one perspective of someone involved, peace paul

  9. #9
    Eruption
    Join Date
    12.11.01
    Location
    Milwaukee, WI
    Posts
    973
    Favorite VH Album

    Fair Warning
    Favorite VH Song

    Meanstreet
    Last Online

    05.18.12 @ 09:24 AM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Originally posted by sparks, paul brian:
    Dear fellow Vanhalenheads, READ Dave's book, "CRAZY FROM THE HEAT" for more info about the breakup, at least from one perspective of someone involved, peace paul
    I've read Dave's book. I'm asking for the fans opinion of what caused the breakup.

    I don't want it from Dave's point of view. Been there, done that. I want to hear what the fans think was the reason.

    [ March 13, 2002 at 01:01 PM: Message edited by: dj88 ]</p>

  10. #10
    Eruption
    Join Date
    12.11.01
    Location
    Milwaukee, WI
    Posts
    973
    Favorite VH Album

    Fair Warning
    Favorite VH Song

    Meanstreet
    Last Online

    05.18.12 @ 09:24 AM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    There you go again Glenn bashing Dave!!!

    Just kidding.

    That's an interesting theory. I think it had more to do with control than with Eddie's state of mind, but you could be right.

    No doubt that Jump was their biggest hit, but if I read Dave right he's always just piled on to whatever works. Why would he shy away from doing something that works? That's one of the big reasons he likes doing covers so much. If they were a hit before then you have the hardest part of making a song work done for you.

    As for making Via leave because he forced Just Like Paradise down his throat... So what. Via was a short term answer anyway. He wasn't going to stay in Dave's shadow for long. Besides, what was he supposed to do? Tour behind the album, but don't play the biggest hit from it?

    Interesting theory though, I'd like to hear more.

  11. #11
    Beloved Glenn's Avatar
    Join Date
    11.16.99
    Posts
    16,192
    Last Online

    02.13.15 @ 08:56 AM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 8 Times in 1 Post


    Donor

    Originally posted by dj88:
    There you go again Glenn bashing Dave!!!

    Just kidding.
    Hey, I said he 'sucks', I kindly refrained from saying he 'fucking sucks'. That's progress man, I'm doing all I can.

    As for making Via leave because he forced Just Like Paradise down his throat... So what. Via was a short term answer anyway.
    Why was Vai only a short term answer? He and Dave clearly had some great chemistry, why wouldn't Dave recognize that and give Steve the leeway to bring all of his ideas and talents to the band. There's no reason that Dave and Steve couldn't have worked together for a long time; it could have been the next EVH/DLR collaboration if Dave had been willing to give a little more space. He was only a short term answer if Dave chose it to be that way by not respecting Steve enough to give him the space a musician of his caliber needs to be creative.

    Your 'control' theory has merit for the simple reason that Dave has been so insistant on being the boss in all of his solo incarnations. That would suggest that he had some type of problem with the control situation in Van Halen, and that he's been overcompensating ever since.

  12. #12
    Top Of The World Legoman's Avatar
    Join Date
    11.04.01
    Age
    46
    Location
    Exeter, UK
    Posts
    213
    Favorite VH Album

    ADKOT, WACF, FW
    Favorite VH Song

    Loss of Control
    Last Online

    12.09.17 @ 12:25 PM
    Likes
    2
    Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    The funny thing is though, after all the trouble that EVH brought by bringing keyboards into the music, Dave has used them quite a lot in his solo work. And given the Jump theory that many of us believe, it's funny to realize that Dave shoved the keyboard heavy Just Like Paradise down Steve Vai's throat (Steve HATED that song), and that was likely one of the contributing factors to that relationship breaking up.
    Good point. The keyboard bit is just an excuse IMO. What about the keyboards on Dancing in the Streets, on "Diver Dave". And with Goin' Crazy on EEAS, Dave was definitely trying to hold on to the "new" VH sound that had proven so successful on 1984. The least said about Skyscraper (the song, not the album) the better.
    My point is, Dave might very well have been concerned about the slow pace of the band and The Brothers' habits but those weren't valid reasons for quitting what was then arguably the biggest band on the planet. Being part of VH would've been a big safety net he could have fallen back on if he really wanted to go and do solo stuff while waiting on the rest of the band. So Ed might not have liked it, what would he have done? Kicked Dave out? No chance, Ed would just have had to put up with it, and would've done.
    Basically, Dave thought he WAS VH or at least the reason for their success. Poor Dave, little did he realise that music would turn serious at the end of the '80s and favour actual songwriters and a little less party-hearty.
    Use my hand, I won't look!

  13. #13
    carpe damn diem billy007's Avatar
    Join Date
    04.19.00
    Age
    54
    Location
    On the wild card line...
    Posts
    28,685
    Favorite VH Song

    "Dance The Night Away"
    Last Online

    12.18.17 @ 05:32 AM
    Likes
    1,046
    Liked 1,351 Times in 927 Posts

    The way I remember it is, it wasn't that Dave was against keyboards - he was against Edward playing keyboards, as it would mess up the band dynamic in a live setting. Alex was there to play drums, Mike was there to play bass and Edward was there to play guitar or keyboards, but he couldn't play both at the same time, so the songs wouldn't be able to be reproduced in a live setting properly. And Dave wasn't about to bring a fifth person in, and this was also before it became common practice to play a canned backing track when needed. When Dave had keyboards on his songs, he had a person that played keyboards, not his guitarist, not his bassist and not his drummer.

  14. #14
    Eruption
    Join Date
    12.11.01
    Location
    Milwaukee, WI
    Posts
    973
    Favorite VH Album

    Fair Warning
    Favorite VH Song

    Meanstreet
    Last Online

    05.18.12 @ 09:24 AM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Originally posted by Glenn:
    Why was Vai only a short term answer? He and Dave clearly had some great chemistry, why wouldn't Dave recognize that and give Steve the leeway to bring all of his ideas and talents to the band.
    Via was a short term answer because he's kind of an enigma (like Dave) and he wouldn't be happy being in Dave's shadow or under Dave's control for long.

    That's my take on things anyway.

  15. #15
    Unchained
    Join Date
    12.04.01
    Posts
    446
    Last Online

    01.28.16 @ 01:53 PM
    Likes
    1
    Liked 7 Times in 3 Posts

    As is the case in almost any kind of break-up, I imagine a lack of communication was the main downfall, and having read CFTH, and just having went back and read the Aerosmith book "Walk This Way" all the way through again the past few days, I feel VH was in the same boat as alot of the Aerosmith guys, just fucked up out of their minds on drugs as was the thing to do in those days. I don't think the VH gang ever got into the shooting up of heroin and coke and all that crazy shit, but we really don't know. Basicly, creative differences. Sometimes that comes down to, "I ain't gonna be able to make it in to the studio today", cause I can't score any coke yet and I'm jonesin' outta my freakin gourd! Admittedly, I've done most all of the stuff there is short of the needles, and I'll be the first to admit some benders where you come out of the haze of a long 3 day weekend of partying, your bedroom is a pile of smokey smelling clothes, little money left in your wallet and very little recall of what went on. Multiply this times 100 and that's probably close to where the guys were in 1985. Add in the animosity over the direction the band was going and it was a recipe for disaster. I would like to point out that I don't feel Mike was a factor as far as any drug abuse, and imagine if anything he helped them stick it out as long as they and fought the good fight in a can't win situation.
    John 3:16, Can You Dig It?

    People, the 6 wings of the Mighty Van Halen will fly again! Can You Dig It?

    You gotta give more than you take! Can You Dig it?

    And underneath the arch, it turned into a march,
    and there He found a spark to set this fucker off!
    Set it off, set it off now children,set if off!

    We are down the road! I Can Dig It! Can You?

 

 

Similar Threads

  1. What happened?
    By onefootoutthedoor in forum VHLinks Feedback & Troubleshooting
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 08.28.05, 11:37 AM
  2. What would have happened...
    By Smokin' 5150 in forum Main VH Discussion
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 10.20.02, 10:01 AM
  3. WHAT EVER HAPPENED TO.....?
    By THE HULKAMANIAC BROTHER in forum VH Fans Meeting Place (Music Only)
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 06.18.02, 08:25 AM
  4. Whatever happened to...
    By Executionor in forum Main VH Discussion
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 05.05.02, 02:06 AM
  5. Something I didn't know that happened...
    By NOaverageJOE in forum Main VH Discussion
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 07.27.00, 05:39 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •