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  1. #1
    Top Of The World
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    07.30.08 @ 05:58 PM
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    Grunge killed Van Halen. Nirvana brought hard rock back to its roots, jettisoning high-pitched singers and flailing guitars for throaty vocals and massive chords. This style was quickly adopted and expanded upon by groups like Metallica, Alice In Chains and Stone Temple Pilots who cemented the new hard rock sound firmly into the modern music arena.

    By the time Balance came out, Eddie Van Halen finally realized something was wrong, but not being the brightest fellow in the world – and not having very good taste or common sense – he figured it was the group’s image. So he recast Van Halen as grunge rockers, shearing off his hair and forcing band members to adopt modern dress – flannels and jeans in this case. “Sorry Sammy, dump the pajamas.”

    But it didn’t work - no new kids were coming to the shows. So Eddie started to focus on Sammy being the problem, but because he wasn’t sure - or more likely couldn’t face -what the problem was, he figured Sammy’s lyrics were too stupid for modern listeners – listeners who were drawn to the angst of Nirvana and Metallica’s lyrics.

    So he dumped Sammy for his trite word play and hired sound-alike Gary Cherone who supposedly had a better handle on lyrics. But that didn’t work either. So he dumped Gary.

    The truth of the matter is: Eddie Van Halen’s style is out of date, but not as much as his taste in singers. He’s going to have to find a more modern singer, while retaining his fans. And the obvious conclusion to that problem may be too much for him to face.

    On this site, we see a lot of people calling Roth a nostalgia act - and that may be true - but he isn’t as much of a nostalgia act as Van Hagar is… because even though Eddie’s guitar talent propelled Van Hagar through the 90s, they still sounded a lot more like Boston than we might want to admit.

    And in 1979, Van Halen with David Lee Roth knocked Boston out of the music business.

  2. #2
    Eruption
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    06.22.15 @ 03:18 PM
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    Donor

    You hit it right on the head.

    Eddie's insecurities killed Van Halen..
    not another dime from me, fellas...

    tinzen

  3. #3
    Unchained
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    EGOS,EGOS.EGOS

  4. #4
    Romeo Delight Ted Williams's Avatar
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    02.23.12 @ 12:14 PM
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    Originally posted by famac@nuveen.com:

    And in 1979, Van Halen with David Lee Roth knocked Boston out of the music business.
    How so?

    Don't get me wrong, I'm a diehard VH w/DLR fan, but in 1979, Boston was still selling out arenas everywhere on the strength of their second multi-platinum album.

    Due to legal troubles and Tom Scholz's obsession with getting everything right down to the last detail, Third Stage wasn't released until '86, but it shot directly to #1 and sold around 5 million copies. Even "Walk On," which didn't have Brad Delp on lead vocals, went Top 10 on the Billboard charts and was certified platinum within a few months. And Boston's live shows continue to draw sizable crowds.

    Boston fan or not, it's inaccurate to say they were ever "knocked out of the music business."

    Anyway, I didn't mean to rant on like that--your post makes some excellent points. The Boston thing was the only thing I disagreed with. Rock on!
    "There goes the greatest hitter who ever lived..."

  5. #5
    On Fire
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    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
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    Hmm...so grunge killed VH? I guess that's why so many of the grunge bands and today's acts cite Van Halen as a huge influence. I guess that's also why Alice in Chains OPENED for VH on the F.U.C.K. tour.

    Have to side with Vince on this topic. It was ego, pure and simple, that derailed the mighty VH machine. Van Halen have been radio darlings for quite some time now. Even the single 'Without You' from III got a massive airplay push from WB. The problem was the cd was shite.

    Like the Stones, Zep, etc., VanHalen has made enough of a mark to transcend the trends. They were not flushed down the grunge toilet with the rest of the hair bands, they simply didn't continue to regularly release good music. Do that again and they'll be do well, possibly never good enough to match their heyday, but none of the 'classic rock' acts are doing the sales of their halcyon era.

    There are people who jump on trends and there are people who ignore them to seek out quality music. Van Halen will always appeal to the latter. Like Ed said, they've outlived disco, new wave, hair metal and the rest. I'm sure grunge was no bigger a beast than those omnipresent fads that preceded it.
    "Some men are born to greatness, some women have greatness thrust up in them."<br /> <br />Diamond Dave

  6. #6
    Emperor of VHLinks.com Brett's Avatar
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    12.17.17 @ 03:30 PM
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    Grunge had nothing to do with Van Halen's recent demise. That's just flat out untrue. Van Halen had success through the early 90's, Nirvana or no Nirvana. And yeah AIC opened for VH on the FUCK tour.
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  7. #7
    Top Of The World
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    07.30.08 @ 05:58 PM
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    Hemp says: "Like Ed said, they've outlived disco, new wave, hair metal and the rest. I'm sure grunge was no bigger a beast than those omnipresent fads that preceded it."

    Hemp, I would contend that Van Halen did not outlive grunge, at least not in the form it evolved into. Metallica and Stone Temple Pilots are still viable artists.

    Finally, I think most "grunge" groups (somtimes mistaken for non-high voiced singing hard rock)are probably siting Roth Van Halen as the influence.

  8. #8
    Emperor of VHLinks.com Brett's Avatar
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    12.17.17 @ 03:30 PM
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    Originally posted by famac@nuveen.com:
    Hemp, I would contend that Van Halen did not outlive grunge, at least not in the form it evolved into. Metallica and Stone Temple Pilots are still viable artists.
    Grunge has been over since like '94 man.
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  9. #9
    Romeo Delight
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    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
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    Quite simply there is only one true thing that killed Van Halen:

    EGO'S

    Every member with the exception of Michael Anthony is one big EGO.
    DDLR WEBMASTER<br /><a href="http://www.diamonddavidleeroth.com" target="_blank">www.diamonddavidleeroth.com</a><br /><br />Also check out <a href="http://www.rayluzier.com" target="_blank">www.rayluzier.com</a> for all DLR BAND updates

  10. #10
    Hot For Teacher
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    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
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    I always find it difficult to take anybody seriously whose favorite all time Van Halen song is "Mean Street" but they can't even spell it correctly.

    As Eddie has said we are not a "flavor of the month" band.
    For the most part, aside from VH3, there demise has been the opposite; they stay true to themselves as musical trends and landscapes change.

    Metallica tried to jump on that grunge bandwagon with "Load" and it backfired big time. "Unforgiven 2", "Until It Sleeps" What the hell was that shit?
    "VH3" was experimental just like "Load" and that was a huge mistake, as most of as painfully must admit.
    What does it mean when a band says "we are going back to our roots for our next record?" It means our last album sucked so now we have to go back to what got us here. Kudos to AC?DC for staying true to themselves.

    The Cherone choice, in my opinion, was not very well thought out, but Ed being naive and a nice guy went with him and the end result was a very mediocre record that not only lost them fans but gained them very few new ones. Ed even said when he first heard Gary sing on a demo he was like "man, I don't know about this guy, but he met Gary and liked his attitude and gave him a shot.
    Cherone was in a Van Halen wannabe band in Extreme that was erased by grunge just like Poison, Cinderella, Winger, Ratt and very other 80's hair bands. Van Halen survived that boring assed grunge shit just like they have survived every other music trend and I'm confident they will survive this ADIDAS "lets tune down to B so we will sound really heavy and sing about my father raping me" rock that now saturates the market. VH was the real deal, their bastard offspring, Winger etc.. were not, and thats why they are history. (relatively speaking)

    When did VH project an image of Grunge? I saw all their shows through the nineties and the only time I ever seen flannel was on Mike and still he had his mullet and white sneakers. Blue jeans =grunge? Wow grunge has been around since the old west days?
    Boston is a kick ass band that I am sure Ed would be glad to draw comparisons to.
    This is not a perfect world and if you think its going to take a "modern singer" to bring VH back into the limelight then you are sorely mistaken. Van Halen has made it's mark and I'm sorry even if they pull a "Physical Graffiti" or "Revolver" out of their asses it will be short lived and they will still be lumped into that "REO,Boston,
    Styx category of one time supergroups that in their heyday were the shit but are now practically irrelevant. Musical landscapes change and more often than not, older rock groups, even supergroups, get cast aside and dropped by labels for current trendy bands, sad but true.

    Whatever happened to all those grunge bands anyway?

    [ September 16, 2002, 08:02 AM: Message edited by: thinlineokc ]

  11. #11
    Baluchitherium mistere's Avatar
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    07.11.09 @ 03:27 AM
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    The grunge argument is bullshit.
    While it did rid the planet of hair bands,
    at its core, "grunge" is not far removed
    from the "metal" of Sabbath/ Zep/etc. of
    which VH is also linked.
    What killed VH? In a word, Sammy.
    Sammy's cheese-headed lyrics and
    AOR tendencies were certainly out of
    step with hardcore rock rock enthusiasts,
    but it was more the fact that he brought
    a blandness and medioctity to the table
    that robbed VH of its initial vitality and turned
    them into just another bloated arena-rock
    behemoth ala Journey.
    The Sam choice was just the first in
    a series of bad decisions with each one
    being worse than the prior.

  12. #12
    Baluchitherium mistere's Avatar
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    07.11.09 @ 03:27 AM
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    The grunge argument is bullshit.
    While it did rid the planet of hair bands,
    at its core, "grunge" is not far removed
    from the "metal" of Sabbath/ Zep/etc. of
    which VH is also linked.
    What killed VH? In a word, Sammy.
    Sammy's cheese-headed lyrics and
    AOR tendencies were certainly out of
    step with hardcore rock rock enthusiasts,
    but it was more the fact that he brought
    a blandness and medioctity to the table
    that robbed VH of its initial vitality and turned
    them into just another bloated arena-rock
    behemoth ala Journey.
    The Sam choice was just the first in
    a series of bad decisions with each one
    being worse than the prior.

  13. #13
    Hot For Teacher
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    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
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    The "It's Sammy's fault" argument is moot. Dave killed Van Halen when he decided to quit. [img]graemlins/irked.gif[/img]

    Let me get this right... it's bad to be a bloated arena rock behemoth? Ok.

    [ September 13, 2002, 03:57 PM: Message edited by: thinlineokc ]

  14. #14
    Unchained
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    Originally posted by mistere:
    The grunge argument is bullshit.
    While it did rid the planet of hair bands,
    at its core, "grunge" is not far removed
    from the "metal" of Sabbath/ Zep/etc. of
    which VH is also linked.
    What killed VH? In a word, Sammy.
    Sammy's cheese-headed lyrics and
    AOR tendencies were certainly out of
    step with hardcore rock rock enthusiasts,
    but it was more the fact that he brought
    a blandness and medioctity to the table
    that robbed VH of its initial vitality and turned
    them into just another bloated arena-rock
    behemoth ala Journey.
    The Sam choice was just the first in
    a series of bad decisions with each one
    being worse than the prior.
    Try this on for size, how about your grand high almighty holy one, DLR killed VH? Because that should be your fucking statment. Sammy didn't force Roth out of VH. Roth left on his own accord. Sammy had a chance to hook-up with a great songwriter/Guiatarist and he took advantage of the opportunity. So you can go on bashing Sammy with the same old played out "Cheese" label. But the fact remains that if you think there is only one true VH era and that is the Roth Era, then blame your over the top, washed up holy one DLR, he left remember. And might we say what a great solo musician Roth turned out to be. Stop blaming Sammy for Dave's departure. Get your head out of your fucking ass already!!

  15. #15
    Baluchitherium mistere's Avatar
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    07.11.09 @ 03:27 AM
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    Yeah, Dave bailed. But that didn't make
    Sam the singer by default - he was chosen by the bros.
    If you want to split hairs and say they
    started to suck when Dave left, fine.
    And just because Sam ruined VH doesn't
    neccessarily mean I think "my beloved"
    Dave should be back. I never indicated anything
    to the effect that Sam was responsible for Dave's departure; rather, that Sam was a bad choice for
    a replacement.
    So try completing a course in logic before
    you attack my argument. A grammar class might
    not be a bad idea, either.

    P.fucking S. And yeah, bloated arena-rock behemoths are bad.

    [ September 13, 2002, 05:20 PM: Message edited by: mistere ]

 

 

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