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  1. #1
    On Fire
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    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
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    I finally had a chance to listen to some of the recent bootlegs of the Song for Song Tour and it's painfully obvious that David Lee Roth can no longer sing. Whatever the cause, smoking, coke, inactivity, etc., he has lost what little range he had in his instrument and is a pale imitation of himself as a former vocalist. I know many Roth fans will reply that he was a never a great singer and, for his ability, his singing is acceptable at this point, but that is clearly not the case.

    Eddie cannot accept a vocalist who cannot deliver in the studio or on the road, nor should we as VH fans.

    I first noticed the drastic loss of range on the greatest hit singles and the subsequent DLR Band record, and his recent live performances confirmed what I suspected, that Dave now struggles mightily to hit any note a minor shade over his natural baritone. I think this is one of the primary reasons why he's reportedly been a more stationary performer on this tour. I've seen this with a lot of aging performers who struggle so much with breath control that they have to conserve their energy to hit a decent note. For DLR, this is a double whammy, he can no longer sing and saving energy to croak out some notes affects his ability to prowl the stage as he once did.

    I think this also explains the crappy sound mix for the recent shows that so many have complained about. The drummer in our band is a soundman and he says it's the oldest trick in the book to disguise a singer's deficiencies by burying him in the mix.

    IMO, this has to be Eddie's primary reason for nixing any potential reunion and even Roth himself realizes this. In his book, he took great pains to state that his struggles to record vocals during the botched reunion sessions were because he was not in 'road shape.' Then, in the midst of a hastily arranged club tour, he posted to his site that he'd recorded some music with Eddie and was now "holding forth with the high note" and looking forward to an inevitable reunion. I think this was Dave's desperate way of saying, I've hit the clubs and have got the voice back, let's start recording again.

    At this point, I truly feel sorry for Dave. Like too many performers before him, he's eroded his musical talents with a lifetime of excess and the current tour will be his anti-climactic swan song as a performer.

    As one of the biggest Roth-era fans ever, I agree with the growing sentiment that it's time to look to the future, albeit a future that doesn't include Dave. Personally, I would prefer a fourth singer, someone who could give the band some new energy and return them to their edgier roots (Sebastian Bach, Jeff Keith, Chris Cornell), but without a label, I think they'll opt for the commercially proven Sammy and the hit/miss combo of good rockers and syrupy pop that he brings to the mix. A new singer unless he's a great mimic would also restrict their ability to play the old stuff which Hagar obviously can do, at least for his portion of the catalogue. I would think we could expect the new music sooner rather than later as well since Ed's probably got a ton of material in the can and the band has to realize that their fan base is rapidly eroding due to the inactivity.

    Just my opinion, but I'm interested to hear the thoughts of the rest of you, especially those who can give an unbiased opinion of Dave's vocals on this current tour.

    Thanks for the good times DLR. You were the best.
    "Some men are born to greatness, some women have greatness thrust up in them."<br /> <br />Diamond Dave

  2. #2
    Emperor of VHLinks.com Brett's Avatar
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    12.12.17 @ 03:41 PM
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    I know where this thread is headed, but I'll send it the Opinions forum anyway.
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  3. #3
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    03.04.06 @ 06:04 PM
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    Nice to hear from a true VH fan and not just a DLR fan. I think there is definite distinctions of the 2 in this forum. What you said is very well stated. I don't think you need to choose between either era. I myself also think the catalog from the Roth era is better. Eddie's most inventive guitar years were in Dave's era. I do like both eras also. I don't know if they can go on with Hagar. There time with Sammy may also be over. I can't say. I want to touch on one major thing you said in reference to a 4th singer. I have also not ruled out the possibility of a 4th singer. I know that Eddie would not be able to just walk in the Whiskey A-go-go throw a dart and find a guy. But I do think if they could find some young guy in his early to mid 20's who had a really good voice, a good look and can build a little attitude he could possibly breath new life into the band. I would not want a Dave or Sammy clone. But a guy who would cover some songs from both eras. As a true fan of VH I know that the heart and soul of VH is and has always been Eddie. I'd like to see the band go on and do new music. I know it won't be with Dave. So in order to get Eddie and the boys back on stage I'm willing to be open minded about a 4th singer. You got to admit if they went with a totally no name guy and they put out a kick ass CD, it would really take the fans and the rock music world by storm. It could be interesting.

    [ August 26, 2002, 01:31 PM: Message edited by: Vince ]

  4. #4
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    12.10.17 @ 12:26 PM
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    I love all eras of VH. Dave, Sammy and yes, "VH3." However, it has become painfully clear that Dave has just simply lost it. His voice is completely shot and he refuses to move into the twentieth century. While I'd love to hear new VH with Dave, its obvious he just can't deliver. Unfortunately, all the Dave heads of course will blame Edward and refuse to let them move forward with Sammy or another singer. Edward, if your reading this, I'm glad you have the courage to leave Dave behind. [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img]
    "People say Cream gave birth to Heavy Metal," says Baker. "If that's so, we should have had an abortion."

  5. #5
    Romeo Delight Redhalen's Avatar
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    03.03.11 @ 01:36 PM
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    Its a good point about the sound on this tour for Dave, how could the mix be that bad night after night without it being intentional, even Rothfans have ripped the sound for being muddy, maybe Dave wants it that way for a reason
    It's good to be the King or at least know him.

  6. #6
    Atomic Punk hain23x's Avatar
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    12.11.17 @ 03:59 PM
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    [img]graemlins/sleep.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/sleep.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/sleep.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/sleep.gif[/img]
    Eat Us and Smile!

  7. #7
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    03.04.06 @ 06:04 PM
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    Originally posted by hain23x:
    [img]graemlins/sleep.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/sleep.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/sleep.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/sleep.gif[/img]
    Once again Hain your mastery debate skills are only overshadowed by your biting and satirical whit.

  8. #8
    Imperial Fascist Overlord Down In Flames's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Vince:
    Hain your mastery debate skills are only overshadowed by your biting and satirical whit.
    Yeah, this will definitely show hain...

    "mastery debate skills" ??? Indeed!

    I mean, your incorrect use of the word "whit" is proof enough that hain couldn't hold a candle to your mastery debate skills.

    whit

    n. The smallest part or particle imaginable; a bit; a jot; an iota

    You meant to say "wit."

    wit

    n. The natural ability to perceive and understand; intelligence.

    Keenness and quickness of perception or discernment; ingenuity. Often used in the plural: living by one's wits.
    wits Sound mental faculties; sanity: scared out of my wits.

    The ability to perceive and express in an ingeniously humorous manner the relationship between seemingly incongruous or disparate things.
    One noted for this ability, especially one skilled in repartee.
    A person of exceptional intelligence.


    By the way, aren't you the same Vince that said "Roth's voice would be a neophyte in that sound system today" in If you love VH you got to let Roth Go!!! ???

    Yes, you are.

    Do you know what a neophyte is?

    No, you don't.

    Because if you did know, you'd never have used it in the context you did.

    So, when you learn how to use words correctly THEN you can talk about someone else's mastery debate skills. Mmmmmkay?
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  9. #9
    XTC man! homeunit's Avatar
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    09.05.15 @ 12:20 PM
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    LOL @ DIF, that's some funny shit.

    [ August 26, 2002, 04:51 PM: Message edited by: homeunit ]
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  10. #10
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    03.04.06 @ 06:04 PM
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    To flames, let me know when the science and history lesson is scheduled, I'd like to tune in and learn something. This is now the basic come back because you know your hero is done.

    [ August 26, 2002, 05:03 PM: Message edited by: Vince ]

  11. #11
    On Fire
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    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
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    I can't say. I want to touch on one major thing you said in reference to a 4th singer. I have also not ruled out the possibility of a 4th singer. I know that Eddie would not be able to just walk in the Whiskey A-go-go throw a dart and find a guy. But I do think if they could find some young guy in his early to mid 20's who had a really good voice, a good look and can build a little attitude he could possibly breath new life into the band.

    Yes, that's my thinking as well. I'm seeing a lot of posts saying that the band basically has to accept being a nostalgia act at this point and should choose Dave because of it since that would be better received from a nostalgia/reunion point of view. I don't agree. If Richards, Clapton, B.B. King, Buddy Guy, etc. can continue to put out new tunes and tour at a relatively advanced age than why can't EVH?

    I think Eddie has the guts to move forward, he proved that with Cherone, but the real question is, is he "once bitten, twice shy" now? I thought there were some damn good riffs on 3, but Cherone's melodies just didn't work and he didn't seem to harmonize with Mikey very well.

    I remember reading somewhere that Eddie's favorite rock singer of all time is Bon Scott so I think he prefers vocalists with an edge as well, as opposed to note-perfect guys like Steve Perry or Geoff Tate.

    Sebastian Bach reminded me of a young Roth when he first came out and apparently he's a huge fan, but I wonder if he toasted his vocal chords as well? Subhuman Race was pretty rough, but that may have been the sound they were going for. I would love to hear Cornell in the band. He's got a range that rivals Plant in his heyday, but he may be a little too dominant in the songwriting dept. for Eddie's liking. Of the 3 I mentioned, Jeff Keith seems to be a great fit. Classic rock voice very much in the Steven Tyler mode, a decent showman and a minimum of 'tude, plus he's from California.

    Sorry Tesla, always thought you were an underrated band, but JK you need to have your agent call Eddie asap.

    Hey, maybe if they call the next album 4, they can have the kind of success Zep did with their album of the same name
    "Some men are born to greatness, some women have greatness thrust up in them."<br /> <br />Diamond Dave

  12. #12
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    03.04.06 @ 06:04 PM
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    The only thing CFTH, going with a named guy like Sebastion Bach could turn into Eddie's LSD "Lead Singer's disease" If you get a no name guy he would do both eras without complaining. He'd be happier than shit just to be in VH. I'm not sure a guy like Bach would want to readily do that. I still like the idea of a 4th singer.

  13. #13
    Imperial Fascist Overlord Down In Flames's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Vince:
    To flames, let me know when the science and history lesson is scheduled, I'd like to tune in and learn something. This is now the basic come back because you know your hero is done.
    Dave's never been my hero. I like the way you tried putting words in my mouth, though.

    It's got to be easier than getting them out of your own...

    Your mastery debate skills are lacking so a refresher course would seem to be in order. Don't fear furthering your ed-ju-ma-cation, Vince.

    Speaking of which... How's summer school?
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    "You are the McCarthy of this board. The witch burner." - strungout, on yours truly

    "Only Eddymon would claim victory during a FOUR game losing streak." - OLO

    "Did I not say, 'I think we should shoot him!' I did. Double rainbow on this end. I require a high five. Out."- track 5, on the delicate art of banning

    "If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can hire..."

  14. #14
    On Fire
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    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
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    The only thing CFTH, going with a named guy like Sebastion Bach could turn into Eddie's LSD "Lead Singer's disease" If you get a no name guy he would do both eras without complaining. He'd be happier than shit just to be in VH. I'm not sure a guy like Bach would want to readily do that. I still like the idea of a 4th singer.

    That's basically why I'd rule out Cornell. Not so much the ego, but I would think he would be very dominant in the songwriting department. But I think either Keith or Bach would do backflips to get a shot to sing with a legend like EVH. Bach's basically done nothing since a short stint on Broadway and is playing clubs now, so you would hope the symptoms of LSD would be minimal at this point, but you never know with these guys

    I think he could mimic both eras pretty well. He's got the edge (Youth Gone Wild, Monkey Business, etc.) for the Dave stuff and the range/shmaltz for the Sammy ballads (I Remember You/Wasted Time). But, and it's a big but, he's been kicked out of a successful band just like Roth/Hagar, so he may be a bit of a head case. Back to JK, who seems very much in the Cherone vein, quiet and humble. Would Eddie dominate him too much? That could be the problem. Like Jagger/Richards, Tyler/Perry, Van Halen/Roth, the greats seem to have that push/pull that comes from great egos clashing. Let the guitar player call all the shots and you end up with 3, what Richie Blackmore does outside of Deep Purple, or a Steve Vai solo release.

    Or Eddie could just go the solo route. Remember Rik Emmett from a fairly successful Canadian outfit called Triumph? He's carved out a nice low profile career for himself releasing instrumental music on his own label after the fairly acrimonious breakup of that group. I personally wouldn't want to see Eddie go that route as instrumentals wear a little thin for me after a while, but it's always an option if he's sick to death of singer hassles.
    "Some men are born to greatness, some women have greatness thrust up in them."<br /> <br />Diamond Dave

  15. #15
    Romeo Delight
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    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
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    Kudos to a well written beginning to this thread. I wonder, however, if I must've been in a state of Van Halen euphoria at the Atlanta show. Dave sounded not only fine, but great to me. Sure, he's not the young lion he once was, but I thought he delivered. Judging by the "Dave! Dave! Dave!" chants at the end of the show, I would make an educated guess that this wasn't a fluke.
    As for newly recorded music, if Eddie tossed his perfectionism aside, I think it would work with Dave. Listen to "Don't Piss Me Off" on the DLR "Best Of" and compare that to the 1996 reunion tracks. His vocals on "Me Wise Magic" and "Can't Get This Stuff No More" sound strained. I would imagine Dave either felt incredibly challenged, was pushed a bit by Ed, or both. On "Don't Piss Me Off," Dave seems to know his limitations and the song, in my opinion, was his best in years.
    I think it's more than just nostalgia gnawing at me. Despite what seems to be popular opinion, I still believe in Dave.

 

 

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