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  1. #1
    Sinner's Swing! Rokgtar's Avatar
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    12.10.17 @ 07:59 PM
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    OK, this is not a "Bash Roth" thread, so don't come in here with a lot of negativity and bashing. My question is simple, but the answer may or may not be complex.

    I don't really understand why Roth's solo career didn't last for the long run. Others have gone on after leaving a successful band to be even more successful in their solo careers. I think a good comparison for this discussion would be Ozzy Osbourne. I know, two totally different performers, but both very unique, and they actually have a lot in common career wise, except, of course, Ozzy went on to be hugely successful without Black Sabbath, while DLR's career hit on hard times.

    With Ozzy, he was fired from Sabbath, and had to start from scratch. No one gave him a snowball's chance in hell of succeeding, but he perservered. Soon, he was outselling Sabbath, and became an international superstar. Now, after 20 years as a extremely successful solo artist, he is back to touring with Black Sabbath, which I think is great. I highly doubt that if Ozzy wasn't such a success in his own solo career, he would have had the opportunity to tour as a member of Sabbath. They wouldn't have given him the time of day. But because he has been so successful, he gets to pretty much call the shots. He has a pretty big bargaining chip to use.

    Dave, in Van Halen, had it all. A hugely successful rock and roll entity; everything they released was successful. In 85, as we all know, VH parted ways with DLR, and he embarked on the beginnings of what appeared to be an amazingly successful solo career. A few albums later, DLR's popularity was slipping. Subsequently, with the departure of SH from VH, Dave was back in the picture. But my guess is that because his solo career was in a such a lull at the time, he had limited pull with VH to impose his will, so to speak. He had no real bargaining chip, other that his past success with VH and the groundswell of support for a reunited VH. Could have made a big difference in how things might have played out if Dave had still been enjoying a successful solo career.

    But that doesn't answer the question why Dave's solo career hit a snag. Lack of talent? Hardly. Bad management? Maybe. Loss of interest? Probably played a big part. I think he let his career go; perhaps he always wanted to return to VH but lost hope by the mid 90's. If he were strong as a solo artist, he would definitely have more control over his career, both in and out of VH. We could expect him to maintain both a solo career and a place in VH; solo careers and the band for all, maybe. That is what we get with Sabbath and Ozzy: solo albums from each member, and collaborative efforts for the Sabbath fans.

    Anyone have anything to contribute? I didn't mean to go on so long but this is something I have been thinking about for some time...

  2. #2
    Eruption esquiretoo's Avatar
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    08.02.17 @ 01:12 PM
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    I don't know if this will thoroughly answer your question, but I'll try. In the mid 80s, Dave was the man. I realize that other artists have gone solo and have been very successful, but Dave was pretty dang successful himself, although it didn't last that long.

    Dave had 3 albums that did very well. Not many artists that have gone solo have even accomplished that. The music, on those 3 albums, in my opinion, was killer. However, as you know, music changed in the late 80s, and Dave tried to change, too, hence his YFTLM album. It was a marked change from the first 3 albums. It just didn't go ever very well with the public.

    Back to your question: I just think his popularity as a solo artist fizzled out with the mainstream public. After all he had accomplished, he just wasn't able to top himself. Except of course, by rejoining Van Halen. Later.


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  3. #3
    Good Enough Cabo Kid's Avatar
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    08.27.15 @ 02:07 AM
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    Donor

    Interesting point about Ozzy leaving Sabbath. I guess my thought on that, which could also lead me into the "Dave solo" thing, is that when Ozzy left Sabbath, heavy metal was just beginning to come to the forefront of music. Everyone, especially young men, was beginning to accept it as a bona fide music form, full of energy and a perfect way to rebel. I think Ozzy go on board (no pun intended) just as the heavy metal craze was about to take off. Soon after, we had all the "hair bands" evolve and then the different styles of metal come out. (ie: thrash, speed, black, European, etc) It was the right time...Ozzy was lucky he was in that place in his career to begin his development.

    Dave, on the other hand, left VH in the mid-80's. Sure, hair bands and "heavy metal" were still popular, and VH, with their party rock sound, remained on top. UNTIL Dave left the band. Then both camp's foundations began to shake a bit. VH re-inforced their camp for the long term and got an incredible singer/guitar player in Sammy. Dave, to me, seemed to want to capture that which WAS VH and assembled an all-star lineup of flashy guitar and bass player and double bass kickin' drummer. The SOUND was there, but how much substance? Would this incarnation of DLR last much into the 90's? As we found out one album later...no.

    5150 on the other hand, picked up where 1984 was headed and established the band as a force to STILL be reckoned with. Although OU812 was a rather poorly produced album, the VH boys still had their heritage to fall back on as well as some decent "new" songs too. Unlawful Carnal saw them continue to evolve into a band ready to face the 90's and another decade as one of rock's top bands. DLR, in 1991, responded with ALAE, which still echoed of vintage past, but still didn't have enough substance to be considered "future staples". YFLM supports the idea that Dave was making music at that point, to keep his name out there but had no real motivation...except the lights of Vegas. VH had RHRN to support and were doing a great job of re-inventing themselves, yet solidifying who we all knew they were.

    Dave seemed to be lost...musically and professionally. Image changes that had no direction, looking to capitalize on some of the latest fads, not really being true to himself...these all helped his solo career continue to spiral downward. VH, while not quite the "party band" from 1982 everyone remembered, were carving out their own niche in rock. Music overall was changing, too. Grunge and all things Seattle came into play, crushing any and all of the "hair bands" and heavy metal labeled groups. Fun, party rock was no longer in...downtrodden, self-loathing/self-pity songs and bands were.

    Dave had nothing to fall back on except who he WAS. VH were looking to see what they could BE. Sure, it all came full circle in '96 and we all wanted to see Dave back w/VH, but Ed & co. had matured in those 10 years. Dave seemed to not have learned too much...which, granted, is how we like him.

    I guess what I'm saying is if you don't continue to show us what you can do for us now, (ie: adapt and evolve with the times) no one will care or remember what you did for us then. (Sure you WERE VH's lead singer, but what have you done lately??)

    That is why I think DLR never had a chance to last too long as a solo artist.

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  4. #4
    Beloved Glenn's Avatar
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    02.13.15 @ 08:56 AM
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    I wonder how much of it had to do with Dave insisting on being the main man in his solo career. Which makes sense of course, but he basically lost Billy Sheehan because Billy didn't like the direction of the music, and he more or less lost Vai for the same reason. In a give and take, equal band, the things that Sheehan and Vai didn't like (overproduced music in Sheehan's case, somewhat the same for Vai, since he hated Just Like Paradise) could have been worked on and a compromise could have been reached. Not so when Dave is making the ultimate decisions above the musicians.

    I also wonder how much of it has to do with basic style. When you're image is what Dave's was (a swaggering, ladies man, party animal), eventually people are going to stop taking you seriously in that image. Every artist crosses an invisible line between living a role, and then just playing that same role. I don't think it's necessarily the artist being fake, it's just a natural evolution which many artists fail to recognize. As an example, I didn't care for the way Dave dressed on his last tour; it came off like an aging guy trying too hard to look hip in my opinion.

    Plus, at some point, the "banging 2 girls a night" image ends up going against the times; AIDS etc has a tendancy to make this lifestyle much less attractive looking.

    Anyway, just a few thoughts of mine.

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  5. #5
    Sinner's Swing!
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    10.09.12 @ 02:50 PM
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    I think a better question is 'why did Ozzy's solo career last?'. I think everything he's done post-Diary sucks....And even if you like it, can anyone seriously argue that his solo albums are that much superior to everyone else's that they are the sole reason his career thrived survived as hard rock died in the 90s.

    There's just something about Ozzy that makes people love and worship him and it's not much to do with music IMO. I think Dave did pretty great all things considered.

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    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
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    Man, you guys write too much ... It's simple for me. DLR ain't VH without VH and VH ain't VH without DLR. We were all suject too VH's talent and prob noticed it more as they grew diverse as musicians.

    IMO allz DLR is, is a vocalist that isn't as dedicated as the VH bro's in that musicians always grow and expand as where Dave had always looked for the perfect VH remidy but couldn't find it. He got about as close to VH in his latest effort with DLRBand IMHO, Black Sand blew my mind, the lyrics in that song reflect what *I* think he had missed his whole solo career which was the VH fill-in which don't come so naturally.

    Fak, nevermind about the long posts, I just realized I wrote a novel just like each and every one of you who replied to this thread. Lol ...

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  7. #7
    Eruption esquiretoo's Avatar
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    08.02.17 @ 01:12 PM
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    Eyes, I agree with you. But, I bet DLR was one tough SOB to work with after he left VH. He was one tough SOB to work with while he was in VH. At any rate, he does have an exceptional business acumen.

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  8. #8
    Super Duper Frontman YankeeRose's Avatar
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    12.08.17 @ 01:39 PM
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    I disagree with Jonathan saying that everything Ozzy did past Diary sucks. I love the No More Tears album and I think Perry Mason was his best song.

    I think the reason that Dave's solo popularity declined had a lot to do with Vai and Sheehan leaving. If they hadn't left the band, Dave's last three solo albums would have done much better. A lot of people would have went to Dave's concert just to see Vai play just like people go to see VH to see Eddie play.

    I also think that Dave's solo albums get worst every album. EEAS is my favorite and DLR Band is my least favorite.

    Also the fact that Grunge bands killed off the popularity of good rock bands in the eary 90's definately hurt DLR.

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  9. #9
    Eye suffacozza YEWW! Goo's Avatar
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    12.10.17 @ 11:16 PM
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    I think when the 90's came, the 80s' suddenly became very UNcool... the Grunge thing was starting to take shape slowly, and a guy like Dave, who was an 80's icon, was doomed to failure - which is a pity, I think ALAE is his strongest solo album. Still, it sold pretty well, but it was obvious DLR's solo career was on the wane

    So Dave then had to decide wether to change his course, or steer straight ahead.. With YFLM he obviously decided to change course, the problem was he had no idea where he was going, and I think that album reflects this -He dips his finger (stylewise) into a lot of different pies, I'll bet he was hoping that something might stick, and shine a light on which way he should go. Didn't happen.

    So he went to Vegas! Given the sucess of gigalo/cal girls some years earlier.. I thought this wasnt THAT big a suprise. But Dave says in his book, Vegas changed, the raunchy show Dave wanted to run wasn't ever gonna work in that atmosphere.

    At that point I would think Roth was pretty close to hanging it up (hence his voice being so badly outta shape for the 96 thing).. Then a phone call changed everything.. The rest is history I guess..

  10. #10
    Sinner's Swing! Rokgtar's Avatar
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    12.10.17 @ 07:59 PM
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    I would also disagree that everything Ozzy did after Diary sucked - IMO it was still good rock and roll. Sure, it was nowhere near as groundbreaking as his work with Randy Rhoads, but what could he do? Just give up?

    Some very good points made by all...

    I'll tell you what, though... Back around 81, 82, you couldn't touch Van Halen, or Ozzy Osbourne - they ruled the heavy rock scene and were at arguably their creative peaks. Hat's off to Classic Van Halen and the Blizzard Of Ozz Band!!! Ozzy f'in RULES!!!



  11. #11
    Beloved Glenn's Avatar
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    02.13.15 @ 08:56 AM
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    This is a great topic, interesting opinions by everybody.

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jonathan:
    There's just something about Ozzy that makes people love and worship him and it's not much to do with music IMO.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I agree with this statement, even though I think that Ozzy has made some great music since the sad passing of Randy Rhoads. What I think one of the key reasons for Ozzy's popularity is how he is percieved. Ozzy has lived the rock and roll lifestyle to the hilt, and paid the consequences, yet he never whines and cries about how hard the musicians life is. He just continues doing his thing, no matter what the trends are, and he seems so down to earth (with real life problems) that people can relate to him. He's a lot like Keith Richards in the sense that they are two guys who haven't apologized for their sins, which makes them seem all that much cooler in the rock scene.



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  12. #12
    Hang 'Em High Stuff No More's Avatar
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    01.08.05 @ 11:08 AM
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    Okay, I might get some flack for this, but here's my take on it.

    See, there are certain things that are quintessential '80s. Things pop into your mind like Bon Jovi, Def Leppard, and David Lee Roth - the kind of acts that defined "pop" music in the mid to late '80s.

    When a new generation of America's youth came along, they rebelled against the establishment, and the icons of that were swept under the closet never to be seen again.

    Throughout the '80s Dave released big hair hard rock. Face it, EEAS and SS fit the mold. Van Halen, on the other hand, mixed things up with OU812 and then drifted back towards their roots with For UCK. When people shoved the '80s out the door, DLR got buried along with it, while Van Halen was already doing something that didn't SOUND like the '80s.

    The beginning of the end for DLR was when his record label switched from WB to Reprise. Yeah, they're the same basic company, but it says something about you when your label passes you off to a subsidiary.

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    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Stuff No More:
    The beginning of the end for DLR was when his record label switched from WB to Reprise. Yeah, they're the same basic company, but it says something about you when your label passes you off to a subsidiary.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Good point SNM, I forgot about the ol' label theory of it all. It's true, it's like the bargain basement deals of the biz. The bigger the label is the more exposure you will get.

    I learned that a little bit from the grunge scene that I grew up in. Nirvana was on the label Sub Pop before the alblum Nevermind. I guess my point is SP didn't have the funds to mass produce a band like Nirvana. Although they went to Geffen records, this was the leap for them to at least have a shot a stardom. I don't think anyone new how big of a change they would bring to music, love it or hate it. Needless to say Sup Pop sold the rights to Nirvana in return have a peice of the pie by having SP's label on Nevermind's rights.

    I'm still backing my opinion about why DLR did not succeed, he didn't have Halen who did just fine without him ...

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    [This message has been edited by Eyes of the Night (edited February 24, 2001 at 01:38 AM).]

  14. #14
    Eye suffacozza YEWW! Goo's Avatar
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    12.10.17 @ 11:16 PM
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    quote:
    Originally posted by Stuff No More:

    Throughout the '80s Dave released big hair hard rock. Face it, EEAS and SS fit the mold.



    NO, I dont agree. I think Dave was instrumental helped set the template.. the 'big hair' groups was the legions of impersonators that followed.

    If Dave appeared on the scene in 86, outta nowhere, then yeh, i guess thats an accusation that could be made, but given the guy was writing the rule book for this kinda act, several years beforehand, I cant see that as a problem, and musically, I think those albums were a big step ahead of whatever any 'hair band' was doing at the time anyway.

    The drop to reprise was pretty obviously a direct reflection of where WB projected sales. Business decision. Given ALAE is an 'uncredited' platinum album it mighta been a harsh call, but I doubt the label would have made a huge difference to YFLM's sales.

    I totally agree with the comments re 80s icons getting swept aside, in fact i think thats where things got real bad for DLR

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    Super Duper Frontman track 5's Avatar
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    12.03.17 @ 09:00 PM
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    Well all are good points, but I think Yankee did hit on something about the original band. If you stop and think about it. Had Dave, Steve, Billy, and Greg stayed together and continued to play in your face rock and roll, Dave and THAT band might have gone on to major major status. But they didn't, and he's back with Van Halen. And I'm all for that. LOL. Out.

 

 

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