Follow us on...
Follow us on Twitter Follow us on Facebook Watch us on YouTube
Register
Results 1 to 12 of 12
  1. #1
    Top Of The World
    Join Date
    06.02.02
    Age
    53
    Location
    DETROIT, MI
    Posts
    151
    Favorite VH Album

    FAIR WARNING
    Favorite VH Song

    SINNER\'S SWING
    Last Online

    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    now run off and check for yourselves,,,,,,, but david lee roth's first three albums after leaving VH (crazy from the heat, eat um and smile, and skyscraper) out sold hagar's solo albums after he left VH by a margin that ought to be quite painfull for sammy fans to handle. however, it is going to be entertaining to listen and read how they try to spin their way out of this. that is if they will even acknowledge the fact.
    TX7081040

  2. #2
    Banned!
    Join Date
    10.02.01
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    349
    Favorite VH Album

    VAN HALEN I
    Last Online

    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Originally posted by TX7081040:
    now run off and check for yourselves,,,,,,, but david lee roth's first three albums after leaving VH (crazy from the heat, eat um and smile, and skyscraper) out sold hagar's solo albums after he left VH by a margin that ought to be quite painfull for sammy fans to handle. however, it is going to be entertaining to listen and read how they try to spin their way out of this. that is if they will even acknowledge the fact.
    [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img]

    Stats don't lie bro!

  3. #3
    Watch the hair!!!
    Join Date
    03.23.02
    Location
    Southeastern U.S.
    Posts
    1,673
    Favorite VH Album

    VH/Fair Warning/5150/F.U.C.K.
    Favorite VH Song

    R.Delight/Unchain./5150/C.Wabo
    Last Online

    07.22.09 @ 11:11 AM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Originally posted by TX7081040:
    now run off and check for yourselves,,,,,,, but david lee roth's first three albums after leaving VH (crazy from the heat, eat um and smile, and skyscraper) out sold hagar's solo albums after he left VH by a margin that ought to be quite painfull for sammy fans to handle. however, it is going to be entertaining to listen and read how they try to spin their way out of this. that is if they will even acknowledge the fact.
    I'll preface my post by saying that I'm a fan of both the DLR and Sammy eras, though I slightly favor the DLR era. I also believe the EEAS and "Skyscraper" are better albums than any album Sammy put out as a solo artist (though, IMO, Sammy’s “I Never Said Goodbye” is close in quality to both of those DLR albums).

    That being said, IMO the point that you are making that DLR's solo career immediately after he left VH was more successful than Sammy's solo career immediately after he left VH is true. But your facts and rationale are not entirely accurate and your comparison is not entirely fair.

    First, "Crazy From The Heat" came out while DLR was still in VH (not after he left the band), which undoubtedly helped that EP's sales significantly considering the success of VH’s "1984." I have no idea what the exact sales were for Sammy's solo release while he was still in VH -- 1987's "I Never Said Goodbye" -- though I believe it was certified Gold at least. But that album could be included in your comparision if you're going to include "Crazy From The Heat." Or "Crazy From The Heat" should be removed from your comparison and replaced with DLR's third solo release after leaving VH, "A Little Ain't Enough." My guess is that the results of the comparison are probably the same -- i.e. DLR was more successful than Sammy immediately after leaving VH -- but at least your comparative analysis would be fairer and more accurate.

    Second, the band VH was a significantly larger musical force popularity-wise when DLR left VH in 1985 than when Sammy left VH in 1996, which would impact the public receptivity to the solo albums of the band’s former lead singers at the time of their respective releases. The entire music universe was different in 1984-85, with VH being the kings of rock music. However, by the mid-90s, though they were still churning out No. 1 albums and were still considered one of the best rock bands around in the era of grunge, VH were not the kings of rock music in an industry where the guitar solo was just a memory. Undoubtedly, these different standings in the eyes of the music world had to impact the album sales of the former lead singers’ solo releases immediately after their departure from VH. Plus, the attitude of why the two of them left VH may have a slight impact on immediate record sales of their solo efforts, with the point being widely held that DLR quit VH in ’85 (which could potentially piss VH fans off and hurt his sales), while Sammy was pushed out of VH in ’96 (which could potentially create sympathy for him on the part of VH fans and help his sales).

    Maybe if DLR had split with VH after the band's fourth studio album together ("Fair Warning") like Sammy did after his fourth studio album with VH ("Balance") then you may have a better – though still not entirely fair and accurate – comparison of their solo careers immediately after their departures from VH. After all, the sales of both "Fair Warning" and "Balance" are comparable (3.4 million to 2.9 million, respectively), though 1981’s “Fair Warning” has been available for purchase 14 years longer than 1995’s “Balance” and undoubtedly had a bump in sales due to consumers repurchasing copies on compact disc (a newer technology) that they had originally purchased on vinyl or cassette. Or the sales numbers of “Fair Warning” and “Balance” could be skewed because so many newer and younger VH fans only discovered the band after Sammy joined and eventually purchased DLR era albums due to their fondness for the Sammy era of VH, though they may not have cared for DLR as VH’s lead singer or a solo artist.

    Perhaps comparing their solo albums during the same period of time (ex. since 1996) would provide a better – though still not entirely fair – comparison of DLR’s and Sammy’s solo careers. Of course, that’s made difficult because DLR has only released one solo album over the past six years (“DLR Band”), while Sammy’s released three (“Marching To Mars,” “Red Voodoo,” & “Ten 13”). I guess you could compare “DLR Band” and “Red Voodoo,” which were both released around the same time (1998/1999) but that’s probably too narrow of a comparison. I won’t even go into the problems of comparing big-label releases vs. independent releases, which would throw another monkey-wrench into any comparative analysis between the success of DLR’s solo career and Sammy’s solo career.

    Overall, my point was to illustrate that making sweeping statements when comparing the success of DLR and Sammy (as solo artists and as members of VH) without taking all the factors into consideration can result in a faulty, inaccurate opinion being stated as fact. Of course, all of us on this and other VH message boards are well aware of these practices and tactics being used by both the DLR partisans and the Sammy partisans, so this is not exactly a profound statement on my part. [img]smile.gif[/img]
    "Seems the old folks who come up short were the pretty little kids who didn't want it, no." - Van Halen (1979)

    "Our greatest glory is not in never falling but in rising every time we fall." - Confucius

    "The possibility that we may fail in the struggle should not deter us from supporting a cause we believe to be just." - Abraham Lincoln

  4. #4
    Existentially Uncertain Fontcow's Avatar
    Join Date
    06.21.01
    Age
    49
    Location
    Northern Illinois
    Posts
    3,561
    Last Online

    03.13.17 @ 07:58 PM
    Likes
    433
    Liked 868 Times in 463 Posts

    You can say I'll spin this anyway I like cause I'm a Sammy fan, but I'll tell you up front that I'm both a Sammy fan and a DLR Van Halen fan equally.

    However, your argument of "album sales" is hogwash. When Roth left VH in 1985, glam guitar rock (spandex, macho bravado, etc.) was king and Dave was the master of ceremonies for that 80s genre. It's very easy to see that all of the fans he had in Van Halen, who were THE rock juggernaut act of the mid-80s, would follow him and his brand of entertainment for those first few albums. Then, by the time the 80s drew to a close, the record industry had saturated the market with "glam rock" bands and the "flavor of the decade" was changing with the ushering in of grunge rock and something new. Neither Van Halen or DLR fit into this mold and became yesterday's flavor. Don't fool yourself for a minute into thinking that if Sammy hadn't joined Van Halen, and they had hired another singer to replace DLR, that his next few albums following "VOA" wouldn't have competed with both solo DLR and the new VH for the same rock-thirsty public that were buying all those albums from 1985-1990. Hagar's albums would have been platinum since his solo career had just hit the bigtime with "I Can't Drive 55" and would have presumably continued on the upward swing. "VOA" with "I Can't Drive 55" made Sammy Hagar a "juggernaut" in his own right in 1984. He was one of the few solo hard rockers who was on top the game back then. Why do you think Van Halen jumped at the chance to have them as their singer in the first place?

    What happened with Sammy's post-VH records is the same thing that happened to both Roth and Van Halen by the mid-90s: guitar rock was gone, heck, even "grunge" was gone and replaced by bubble-gum pop and industrial rap-metal. Factor in the prevalance of music trading such as Napster and the change in the record-buying public's (13-25 yrs old) apetite for something/anything other than guitar-driven rock and the result is low record sales for those acts. Which is why neither Roth, Sammy or even Van Halen, for that matter, sells anywhere near 3-10 million records these days. I dare you to find any band these days that are guitar driven (heck, even FIND a guitar solo or guitar god these days) selling that many albums.

    So your album sales figure to back up your claim as to who is the better "act" is weak. It was different times then and it's different times now and tomorrow it will be different times again.

    Also, nobody seems to factor in that VHI and 1984 has such high record sales not only because of what they sold "out of the box" when they were released and Van Halen was popular but because of what they've sold since then with passage of time and Van Halen's deserved place in classic rock and roll history. I'd bet that a lot of the sales for VHI came throughout the years of 1980-1984 when VH was really building a big audience and especially with the release of 1984. (Once a band has a great big seller like 1984, their first album always goes up drastically in sales because all the new fans go back to the first album out of curiousity--which in this case was a treat for all those fans because then they heard what was some of the best VH). 1984 has continued to sell records for lots of reasons: because of how good it is, because it contains "Jump" (and don't fool yourself into thinking some people didn't buy 1984 just for that song, then and now) and it's "stature" as the quintessential, if not proverbial, 80s rock and roll album.

    So you can say I spun this because I'm a Sammy fan, but if you read closely, I gave you a reason for why Roth isn't selling albums today either. Whether you realize it or not, the reason an album sells a lot of records really has little to do with how good a performer is (example: Britney Spears and n*Sync). It has all to do with the music atmosphere/environment in pop music at the time an album is released and whether or not the record company behind the act/artist is pushing it aggresively.

    So, that's that and as someone around here always says, your mileage may vary.

  5. #5
    Existentially Uncertain Fontcow's Avatar
    Join Date
    06.21.01
    Age
    49
    Location
    Northern Illinois
    Posts
    3,561
    Last Online

    03.13.17 @ 07:58 PM
    Likes
    433
    Liked 868 Times in 463 Posts

    Originally posted by Sammy Who?:
    Stats don't lie bro!
    On the contrary, you can makes stats lie all the time depending on the context you put them in.

  6. #6
    On Fire
    Join Date
    05.31.02
    Age
    41
    Posts
    325
    Last Online

    10.28.09 @ 03:43 AM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Originally posted by Delighted Romeo:
    </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by TX7081040:
    now run off and check for yourselves,,,,,,, but david lee roth's first three albums after leaving VH (crazy from the heat, eat um and smile, and skyscraper) out sold hagar's solo albums after he left VH by a margin that ought to be quite painfull for sammy fans to handle. however, it is going to be entertaining to listen and read how they try to spin their way out of this. that is if they will even acknowledge the fact.
    I'll preface my post by saying that I'm a fan of both the DLR and Sammy eras, though I slightly favor the DLR era. I also believe the EEAS and "Skyscraper" are better albums than any album Sammy put out as a solo artist (though, IMO, Sammy’s “I Never Said Goodbye” is close in quality to both of those DLR albums).

    That being said, IMO the point that you are making that DLR's solo career immediately after he left VH was more successful than Sammy's solo career immediately after he left VH is true. But your facts and rationale are not entirely accurate and your comparison is not entirely fair.

    First, "Crazy From The Heat" came out while DLR was still in VH (not after he left the band), which undoubtedly helped that EP's sales significantly considering the success of VH’s "1984." I have no idea what the exact sales were for Sammy's solo release while he was still in VH -- 1987's "I Never Said Goodbye" -- though I believe it was certified Gold at least. But that album could be included in your comparision if you're going to include "Crazy From The Heat." Or "Crazy From The Heat" should be removed from your comparison and replaced with DLR's third solo release after leaving VH, "A Little Ain't Enough." My guess is that the results of the comparison are probably the same -- i.e. DLR was more successful than Sammy immediately after leaving VH -- but at least your comparative analysis would be fairer and more accurate.

    Second, the band VH was a significantly larger musical force popularity-wise when DLR left VH in 1985 than when Sammy left VH in 1996, which would impact the public receptivity to the solo albums of the band’s former lead singers at the time of their respective releases. The entire music universe was different in 1984-85, with VH being the kings of rock music. However, by the mid-90s, though they were still churning out No. 1 albums and were still considered one of the best rock bands around in the era of grunge, VH were not the kings of rock music in an industry where the guitar solo was just a memory. Undoubtedly, these different standings in the eyes of the music world had to impact the album sales of the former lead singers’ solo releases immediately after their departure from VH. Plus, the attitude of why the two of them left VH may have a slight impact on immediate record sales of their solo efforts, with the point being widely held that DLR quit VH in ’85 (which could potentially piss VH fans off and hurt his sales), while Sammy was pushed out of VH in ’96 (which could potentially create sympathy for him on the part of VH fans and help his sales).

    Maybe if DLR had split with VH after the band's fourth studio album together ("Fair Warning") like Sammy did after his fourth studio album with VH ("Balance") then you may have a better – though still not entirely fair and accurate – comparison of their solo careers immediately after their departures from VH. After all, the sales of both "Fair Warning" and "Balance" are comparable (3.4 million to 2.9 million, respectively), though 1981’s “Fair Warning” has been available for purchase 14 years longer than 1995’s “Balance” and undoubtedly had a bump in sales due to consumers repurchasing copies on compact disc (a newer technology) that they had originally purchased on vinyl or cassette. Or the sales numbers of “Fair Warning” and “Balance” could be skewed because so many newer and younger VH fans only discovered the band after Sammy joined and eventually purchased DLR era albums due to their fondness for the Sammy era of VH, though they may not have cared for DLR as VH’s lead singer or a solo artist.

    Perhaps comparing their solo albums during the same period of time (ex. since 1996) would provide a better – though still not entirely fair – comparison of DLR’s and Sammy’s solo careers. Of course, that’s made difficult because DLR has only released one solo album over the past six years (“DLR Band”), while Sammy’s released three (“Marching To Mars,” “Red Voodoo,” & “Ten 13”). I guess you could compare “DLR Band” and “Red Voodoo,” which were both released around the same time (1998/1999) but that’s probably too narrow of a comparison. I won’t even go into the problems of comparing big-label releases vs. independent releases, which would throw another monkey-wrench into any comparative analysis between the success of DLR’s solo career and Sammy’s solo career.

    Overall, my point was to illustrate that making sweeping statements when comparing the success of DLR and Sammy (as solo artists and as members of VH) without taking all the factors into consideration can result in a faulty, inaccurate opinion being stated as fact. Of course, all of us on this and other VH message boards are well aware of these practices and tactics being used by both the DLR partisans and the Sammy partisans, so this is not exactly a profound statement on my part. [img]smile.gif[/img]
    </font>[/QUOTE]This man deserves a beer!!! [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img]

  7. #7
    Eruption ETRIGAN's Avatar
    Join Date
    11.12.99
    Location
    O.C. Calif
    Posts
    1,054
    Favorite VH Album

    Van Halen/Van Halen
    Favorite VH Song

    Romeo Delight
    Last Online

    01.07.15 @ 01:55 PM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 1 Time in 1 Post


    Donor

    The most absurd argument for who is "better" is album sales. If there is a shread of thruth to that it means Britney, Nsync and the Backstreet Boys are unarguably the greatest musicians of our time.
    "Why behave in public if you're living on a playground?"

  8. #8
    Emperor of VHLinks.com Brett's Avatar
    Join Date
    09.02.99
    Age
    46
    Location
    Somewhere Near LA
    Posts
    68,715
    Favorite VH Album

    Fair Warning
    Favorite VH Song

    Unchained
    Last Online

    12.14.17 @ 06:35 PM
    Likes
    1,264
    Liked 11,569 Times in 4,932 Posts

    Not to burst anyone's bubble, but DLR's first three solo records did not outsell VH's first 3 with Sam.

    Straight from the RIAA site.

    5150 - 5X Platinum
    OU812 - 3X Platinum
    FUCK - 3X Platinum

    EEAS - Platinum
    Skyscraper - Platinum
    ALAE - Gold

    Hell throw the Crazy From The Heat EP in there too, with a Platinum award.

    So TX, don't know where you're getting your data from, but again this is straight from the RIAA web site at http://www.riaa.com . Maybe you should check again.

    With that said, the record sale argument is worthless, because the Backstreet Boys sell more records than VH ever did. Guess they're the best band ever!
    Webmaster
    VHLinks.com - Your Van Halen Internet Resource Guide
    http://www.vhlinks.com

    JamToThis.com
    Audio/Video Trading Community
    Tons of Van Halen!

  9. #9
    Atomic Punk Bob_R's Avatar
    Join Date
    01.18.01
    Posts
    7,207
    Last Online

    12.13.11 @ 02:09 PM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts


    Donor

    Originally posted by Brett:
    Not to burst anyone's bubble, but DLR's first three solo records did not outsell VH's first 3 with Sam.

    Straight from the RIAA site.

    5150 - 5X Platinum
    OU812 - 3X Platinum
    FUCK - 3X Platinum

    EEAS - Platinum
    Skyscraper - Platinum
    ALAE - Gold

    Hell throw the Crazy From The Heat EP in there too, with a Platinum award.

    So TX, don't know where you're getting your data from, but again this is straight from the RIAA web site at http://www.riaa.com . Maybe you should check again.

    With that said, the record sale argument is worthless, because the Backstreet Boys sell more records than VH ever did. Guess they're the best band ever!
    Brett, TX was comparing first 3 DLR solo to Sammy's first 3 solo after leaving VH. [img]smile.gif[/img]

  10. #10
    Emperor of VHLinks.com Brett's Avatar
    Join Date
    09.02.99
    Age
    46
    Location
    Somewhere Near LA
    Posts
    68,715
    Favorite VH Album

    Fair Warning
    Favorite VH Song

    Unchained
    Last Online

    12.14.17 @ 06:35 PM
    Likes
    1,264
    Liked 11,569 Times in 4,932 Posts

    Oops, haha, my bad. [img]smile.gif[/img]

    Well of course Dave sold more, VH was 10x more popular in 1984 than 1996, and the era of heavy metal like VH was pretty much over when Sam left the band. When Dave left, the age of 80's heavy metal was at a high point.
    Webmaster
    VHLinks.com - Your Van Halen Internet Resource Guide
    http://www.vhlinks.com

    JamToThis.com
    Audio/Video Trading Community
    Tons of Van Halen!

  11. #11
    Good Enough
    Join Date
    03.31.00
    Location
    Fairfax/San Francisco, CA
    Posts
    1,781
    Favorite VH Album

    Fair Warning or 1984 by mood
    Favorite VH Song

    Hear About It Later
    Last Online

    07.19.13 @ 08:52 PM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Well, seeing as how there's no point to this argument - since record sales and artistic integrity seldom have to do with one another - why not play a pointless little mathematical game...

    Instead of looking at the raw post-VH numbers for both artists, why not express their subsequent solo sales figures as a percentage of their last VH sales?

    Of course, to be fair with this, you'd have to determine an amount of time after each album's release, and compare the total sales for that time period alone. If you don't, the albums that have been out longer will have an unfair advantage.

    In other words, say you wanted to compare Eat 'Em & Smile with Marching to Mars. You might want to determine the sales in the first year of 1984's release, compare that number with the total sales for EEAS in its first year on the market, and express one as a percentage of the other. Then, check Marching to Mars against Balance under similar parameters.

    I don't know what the numbers are, and I've got no idea how it would all turn out. But this way, you're comparing each solo vocalist against his history in Van Halen. And while you won't entirely abstract marketing trends from the argument, you will have taken a pretty decisive first step to remove much of that influence from the equation.

    Everybody confused? Good. Fuck the numbers. Whaddya say we all go 'cross the forums to Kegs and get a drink?

    [img]graemlins/drunk.gif[/img]
    Classic Van Halen. In Pace Requiescant.

    "...sure I'm on zoloft. That's so I don't hafta kill none o' y'all..." - Mike Tyson

    and by the way...

    Eat Us And Smile.

  12. #12
    Eruption ETRIGAN's Avatar
    Join Date
    11.12.99
    Location
    O.C. Calif
    Posts
    1,054
    Favorite VH Album

    Van Halen/Van Halen
    Favorite VH Song

    Romeo Delight
    Last Online

    01.07.15 @ 01:55 PM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 1 Time in 1 Post


    Donor

    Originally posted by The SLAWTERHOUSE Bug:
    Everybody confused? Good. Fuck the numbers. Whaddya say we all go 'cross the forums to Kegs and get a drink?

    [img]graemlins/drunk.gif[/img]
    The sanest words I've heard yet!!
    [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img]
    "Why behave in public if you're living on a playground?"

 

 

Similar Threads

  1. VH ALBUM SALES WORLDWIDE????
    By PT 5150 in forum Main VH Discussion
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 08.07.05, 05:04 PM
  2. VH Album Sales
    By Eddie's Little Monster in forum Main VH Discussion
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 04.15.05, 06:44 AM
  3. VH Album Sales--Please read this!
    By thetruth in forum Main VH Discussion
    Replies: 52
    Last Post: 03.06.03, 11:12 AM
  4. album sales?
    By StevieD in forum Main VH Discussion
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 02.26.03, 04:41 PM
  5. DLR album sales
    By SlashNIzzy in forum Main VH Discussion
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: 09.14.02, 04:20 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •