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  1. #1
    Hang 'Em High Stuff No More's Avatar
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    01.08.05 @ 11:08 AM
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    Yesterday I was listening to the Genesis greatest hits album (excellent CD, BTW) and a thought occured to me. For the most part, if you allow for some poetic liberties, Genesis and Van Halen have had very similar careers.

    Both bands began with a lineup that defined their genre at the time and developed a sizeable hardcore fanbase.

    Both bands eventually lost their initial lead singer and were forced to replace him with another person, continuing to use the original band name thereafter.

    Both original singers that left the band went on to solo careers with moderate amounts of success initially, but ended up forgettable in the end.

    Both bands changed their sound slightly during the period of the new singer. This change led both bands to amazing popular support and strong album sales, but also alienated much of their original fanbase.

    The second singer for both bands released solo albums while still a member of the band.

    Both bands eventually, once again, lost their lead singers and replaced them with a third new person, still keeping the original band name.

    Both second lead singers have done some solo work since then, but have gone largely unnoticed by the general populace.

    Both bands released a single album with their third singer that sounded different from anything they had produced before. Both albums met critical and popular disappointment, selling poorly.

    Neither band has released anything since (not counting Genesis's greatest hits, which focused largely on Phil's work).

    Obviously the main difference is Phil Collins released many successful solo albums while in Genesis, whereas Sammy released only one that wasn't anywhere near as successful as the work Phil did. Well, that and Phil was already a band member when he took over singing.

    Funny how Van Halen became a soap opera while Genesis was just sort of out there. Then again, somehow they managed to part ways peacefully and not badmouth the previous form of the band.
    "Just once I'd like to do the right thing and not get punished for it."

  2. #2
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    06.07.06 @ 10:32 AM
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    <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Stuff No More:

    Funny how Van Halen became a soap opera while Genesis was just sort of out there. Then again, somehow they managed to part ways peacefully and not badmouth the previous form of the band.
    <hr></blockquote>

    Right, and I believe that Phil Collins, Peter Gabriel, and Steve Hackett all came back together with Mike Rutherford and Tony Banks to re-record "The Carpet Crawlers" on that Greatest Hits CD.

    Nice work on the compare and contrast, Stuff [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img]
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    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
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    there are some similarities, right, sometimes i even wonder if Abacab did influence Jump or vice-versa, don't know which song was written first.

    but it would have been cool if DLR's solo-stuff would have been half ass successful as Phil Collins stuff during the 90s.

    cheers,

    SToRM
    dave, we'd like to go upstairs, the two of us, with you ...

  4. #4
    Hang 'Em High Stuff No More's Avatar
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    01.08.05 @ 11:08 AM
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    <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Astrobond:


    Right, and I believe that Phil Collins, Peter Gabriel, and Steve Hackett all came back together with Mike Rutherford and Tony Banks to re-record "The Carpet Crawlers" on that Greatest Hits CD.
    <hr></blockquote>

    Actually it was just Gabriel and Collins. The song (The Carpet Crawlers 1999) became a sort of duet between the two. Gabriel sung on mostly the first half of the song and Collins on the second.
    "Just once I'd like to do the right thing and not get punished for it."

  5. #5
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    06.07.06 @ 10:32 AM
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    Did they actually record a new version of the song including the music or did Collins and Gabriel just lay down new vocals over the original and remix it?
    My name is Bond. Astrobond.

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    Hang 'Em High Stuff No More's Avatar
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    01.08.05 @ 11:08 AM
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    New version, not a remix.
    "Just once I'd like to do the right thing and not get punished for it."

  7. #7
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    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
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    I would just dispute a little bit by saying Phil Collins has had an incredible solo career, I would even go as far to say it far exceeded that of Peter Gabrial's solo efforts.

    I think the comparison has many similarities, but as far as 'second singer's' goes Phil Collins certainly wins that match hands down. Brilliant man in my opinion.
    Life is something that happens when your planning something else.

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    Atomic Punk FORD's Avatar
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    10.22.17 @ 08:55 PM
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    You forgot the most obvious comparison...

    That godawful VDIII track "Once", which could have been an outtake from the "Invisible Touch" sessions.
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    ...It's the BAND and Dave is really the cat that can front VH. He sang his ASS off and was really cool. No cheese here guys, this is filet Mignon! - Steve Lukather's comment after witnessing a Van HALEN 2007 rehearsal

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  9. #9
    Good Enough Cabo Kid's Avatar
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    08.27.15 @ 02:07 AM
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    Donor

    What are you saying, FORD?

    "Once" = "Tonight, Tonight, Tonight"???



    Good comparison. Both songs make me ill.
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  10. #10
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    02.20.07 @ 03:36 PM
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    Hey "Tonight, Tonight, Tonight" is an awesome song. Sorry, I've always loved it.

    The one thing I disagree with in terms of the comparisons is that Phil Collins' solo career was actually more successful than Genesis' career. He sold more albums than the band did, even though both were huge in the 80's. And he still has a huge name and stills sells records.

    Peter Gabriel also (unlike Dave) had a huge solo career, influencing tons and receiving tons of praise (and selling a lot of records, one of which happens to be Eddie Van Halen's favorite album). His career was also much bigger than Genesis' career was when he was in the band.

    Still, a great comparison. And I really like both Genesis and (of course) Van Halen.

    The third singer thing sucked. Van Halen should have learned from this.
    "I had a girl beating on my hotel door all night...She was screaming, crying. Finally, I said, 'What the hell'...and I let her out!"- DLR

  11. #11
    Hang 'Em High Stuff No More's Avatar
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    01.08.05 @ 11:08 AM
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    Let me guess, BOR(e)D probably thinks how Phil Collins handled the band was a travesty of justice. [img]graemlins/sleep.gif[/img]
    "Just once I'd like to do the right thing and not get punished for it."

  12. #12
    Super Duper Frontman YankeeRose's Avatar
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    12.11.17 @ 05:55 PM
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    Invisible Touch is a great album! I also like the song Tonight, Tonight, Tonight.


    That's a good VH/Genesis comparison Stuff, but what about Mike + The Mechanics?

    I've never heard Genesis with their third singer, but I heard him with the Scorpions on their Moment Of Glory album and wasn't impressed.
    Right Now you're reading my post!


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  13. #13
    Atomic Punk FORD's Avatar
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    10.22.17 @ 08:55 PM
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    <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Stuff No More:
    Let me guess, BOR(e)D probably thinks how Phil Collins handled the band was a travesty of justice. [img]graemlins/sleep.gif[/img] <hr></blockquote>


    No, as a matter of fact, I even own a couple Genesis albums. But you certainly can't deny that it was a much different band when Gabriel and Hackett were there. For the record, the first Genesis I can remember hearing would have been in 1977, the beginning of the Collins - led era, so I had to rediscover the Gabriel material at a later time.

    As for Mike & the Mechanics.... that was a group created for one reason... Mike Rutherford can't sing, but he was contracted to do solo albums. Trust me, I heard one of his earlier solo records, and Eddie sang better

    [ November 14, 2001 at 12:00 PM: Message edited by: FORD ]</p>
    Eat Us And Smile

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    ...It's the BAND and Dave is really the cat that can front VH. He sang his ASS off and was really cool. No cheese here guys, this is filet Mignon! - Steve Lukather's comment after witnessing a Van HALEN 2007 rehearsal

    "What then is this bleating of sheep in my ears?"- 1 Samuel 15:14

  14. #14
    Hang 'Em High Stuff No More's Avatar
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    01.08.05 @ 11:08 AM
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    Wow, I'm genuinely shocked. I agree with FORD on something relating to music???

    [img]graemlins/scared.gif[/img]
    "Just once I'd like to do the right thing and not get punished for it."

  15. #15
    Hot For Teacher RayBan's Avatar
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    02.10.12 @ 11:10 AM
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    It IS interesting how they both had 3 singers and the last one was the least popular but I think thats where the comparison ends. I love Genesis in every version except the most current,and I also think the solo careers of all the previous frontmen were EXTREMELY successful. I never hear a favorite version of Genesis debate going on though. Peter Gabriel is a definite musical genius. Phil collins was making good music but ha$ fallen into the money making di$ney $ongs.
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