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  1. #1
    Atomic Punk Eddymon's Avatar
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    12.17.17 @ 11:10 AM
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    A few people label Sammy era VH as cheese.

    So the band branched out and did a few ballads, so what?
    A few songs from the Dave era also could be cheese of some sort.
    I'll Wait: A cool song about obsession, but to most people it sounds like a love song.
    Pretty Woman: A cover song indeed, but still has some cheesy lyrics (technically).
    Jump: By the standards that they set for themselves, this song WAS cheesy at the time, now its a classic and probably their "Signature" song to date. I mean, who isn't familiar with it?


    Now lets look at some of the Hagar era rockers:


    Summer Nights: a very VAN HALEN sounding song.
    Black & Blue: no cheese.
    Poundcake: Balls to the wall Van Halen song about innocence being lost.
    Aftershock: a very underrated song IMO.
    Human Being: Might be the most rockin' Hagar era song.

    To label them all cheese is unjust. If you want too label them differnt go ahead, but there was nothing cheesy about Van Hagar.
    What was everyone's honest first impression when they put in 1984 for the first time? You thought "WOW, whats this?" right? But then it grew on you like "From-un-da Cheese". [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img]

    Its all Great because its all Van Halen.
    'Old Van Halen, when I was in it-classic Van Halen-makes you wanna drink, dance and screw, right? And the new Van Halen encourages you to drink milk, drive a Nissan and have a relationship.' - David Lee Roth.

  2. #2
    Eruption
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    02.20.07 @ 03:36 PM
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    The difference is the lyrics (to me). Listen to any Dave album and you'll hear 90% songs about total attitude. Listen to a Sammy album and he can ruin the songs by using the word "baby" about a hundred time..."we can make it"..."dream another dream"...shut up! He sounds so Michael Bolton-ish on certain songs that should be rocking. The music to something like "Dream Is Over" is very impressive, but the lyrics are unbelievably horrible. Just awful! He ruins the song. Sometimes he's great (HUMANS BEING, BLACK AND BLUE, even if the lyrics aren't exactly brilliant on the latter). But there are many, many more cases of lyrics that sound like football game pep talk, stuff that died in style in the 80's. "Let's do one for the team, baby" kind of talk. I can't quite describe it, but it sounds very dated and cheesy. Dave, to me, is one of the best lyricists in rock. And while a few Dave songs have dated musically, the guy's vocals and lyrics have none of that high-singing 80's sound.

    Still, yes, I love songs in both eras. But Van Hagar also has a lot of duds for me, and Van Roth has almost none.

    (And I love I'LL WAIT, because it still sounds sort of tongue-in-cheek in that classic Dave way, and it's nowhere as cheesy as LOVE WALKS IN or WHEN IT'S LOVE, which are typical 80's AOR Ballads).
    "I had a girl beating on my hotel door all night...She was screaming, crying. Finally, I said, 'What the hell'...and I let her out!"- DLR

  3. #3
    Sinner's Swing!
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    10.09.12 @ 02:50 PM
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    <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Eddymon:
    A few people label Sammy era VH as cheese.
    <hr></blockquote>

    And rightly so.

    <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>
    Summer Nights: a very VAN HALEN sounding song.
    <hr></blockquote>

    .....with terrible lyrics.

    <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>
    Black & Blue: no cheese.
    <hr></blockquote>

    "Ooh, slip n' slide, push it in, uh!
    A-Bitch sure got the rhythm"

    Blue cheese....it stinks.

    <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>
    Poundcake: Balls to the wall Van Halen song about innocence being lost.
    <hr></blockquote>

    It's a song comparing women to food.

    <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>
    Aftershock: a very underrated song IMO.
    <hr></blockquote>

    ok.

    <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>
    Human Being: Might be the most rockin' Hagar era song.
    <hr></blockquote>

    Might be, it's a good song.

    Most Sammy lyrics just sound really fake to me - like a ninth grader doing their homework at the last minute. When he tries to do 'deep' like 'mine all mine' or 'judgement day' it sounds really forced, especially sitting along side 'black and blue' and 'spanked'.

    Dave doesn't do deep subjects - but he sounds genuine, like he's talking about his life not trying to write 'cool' rock'n'roll lyrics. He also understands that rock music is inherently silly and shallow, that's the whole point. He's intelligent enough to see that (pseudo)-intelligence has no place in VH-style music. Sammy isn't.
    Delusions of eloquence

  4. #4
    Super Duper Frontman YankeeRose's Avatar
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    12.11.17 @ 05:55 PM
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    GOOD POST EDDYMON! I agree with most of what you said. I don't hear cheese with Van Hagar either, or whatever the Daveheads hear. [img]tongue.gif[/img]



    Sammy also writes a lot of great love songs, and inspiring songs like Dreams, or Mine All Mine! Not that Dave songs aren't well written, but a lot of time the songs that he writes with VH seem to be about nothing. Even Dave says if you want to leave a message, use western union.

    I also love the mystical songs that Sammy writes like The Seventh Seal, great stuff! [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img]

    [ December 08, 2001 at 10:04 AM: Message edited by: YankeeRose ]</p>
    Right Now you're reading my post!


    I can't stand rap....people who can't sing do rap....you can sing rebellion as well as talk it....Hitler would have been in a rap band...

    -- John Entwistle

    2006 VHL Fantasy Hockey Champ!

  5. #5
    Eruption
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    02.20.07 @ 03:36 PM
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    I agree Jonathan. Hagar sounds forced, or when he writes somethiing serious, I can almost hear him say (uninspired), "Okay, I'd better write something DEEP now." And some lyrics sound like he wrote them at the last minute: SOURCE OF INFECTION, FEELS SO GOOD, FINISH WHAT YA STARTED (so juvenile, it's embarressing), SUCKER IN A 3-PIECE, RUNAROUND, CAN'T STOP LOVING YOU...god. I love the music and some of the melodies on these songs...but really.

    Dave seems to really recognize that rock n' roll (to me anyway) should be about swagger and matching the attitude on the music...not painting a fake picture on top of it. Dave's lyrics may not always mean something, but they sure sound like he's really feeling the song. And his melodies are a lot more inventive...you listen to them and go, "How did he come up with that?" I mean, JUMP is an incredible song. But if you listen to it, you also say, "How the hell did Dave come up with that hook?" The song would have been not nearly as good with any other vocalist in my opinion. I dread to think what Sammy would have done with it...and I don't think it would have been a #1 hit with melodies and lyrics from another singer.
    "I had a girl beating on my hotel door all night...She was screaming, crying. Finally, I said, 'What the hell'...and I let her out!"- DLR

  6. #6
    Atomic Punk hain23x's Avatar
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    12.11.17 @ 03:59 PM
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    2 songs that I will NEVER understand why some people like them are

    -Dreams
    -Aftershock


    I guess some of you like 'Aftershock' because of a cool riff in it or something, other than that, it sounds like a song you would hear on a bad USA movie

    and Dreams???
    bwahahahahah!

    Little Orphan Annie!

    I know 'Dreams' wasn't mentioned in the above post but I had to go off on a tangent for a
    moment!

    but I will take a jab at 'Human's Being'---this song seems to be the one that Van Hagar fans, for the most part, claim is the "best"----well, If all I ate and drank was bread and water for years and was finally given some rice, I guess I would think that rice was great! [img]tongue.gif[/img]
    Eat Us and Smile!

  7. #7
    Sinner's Swing!
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    10.09.12 @ 02:50 PM
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    <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by hain23x:


    and Dreams???
    bwahahahahah!

    <hr></blockquote>

    Cool, we haven't had a good Dreams bashing thread for a while. I agree, that song is truly horrible - it's the epitome of cheese along with Love Walks In.
    Delusions of eloquence

  8. #8
    Super Duper Frontman YankeeRose's Avatar
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    12.11.17 @ 05:55 PM
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    <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by hain23x:

    but I will take a jab at 'Human's Being'---this song seems to be the one that Van Hagar fans, for the most part, claim is the "best"----well, If all I ate and drank was bread and water for years and was finally given some rice, I guess I would think that rice was great! [img]tongue.gif[/img]
    <hr></blockquote>Not me man. I think the lyrics suck in that song, and it reminds me of Limp Bizkit the way that Sammy talks through most of it. Sammy was forced to rush re-writing that song and it shows.
    Right Now you're reading my post!


    I can't stand rap....people who can't sing do rap....you can sing rebellion as well as talk it....Hitler would have been in a rap band...

    -- John Entwistle

    2006 VHL Fantasy Hockey Champ!

  9. #9
    Damage your reputation seenbad's Avatar
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    12.15.17 @ 10:48 AM
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    Donor

    quote:
    Originally posted by Rikk:
    Listen to a Sammy album and he can ruin the songs by using the word "baby" about a hundred time..."we can make it"..."dream another dream"...shut up!



    lol!
    sheepa latta peepah dabba looka foh a moopy

    Gunter glieben glauchen globen

  10. #10
    Super Duper Frontman YankeeRose's Avatar
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    12.11.17 @ 05:55 PM
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    <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Rikk:

    I mean, JUMP is an incredible song. But if you listen to it, you also say, "How the hell did Dave come up with that hook?" The song would have been not nearly as good with any other vocalist in my opinion. I dread to think what Sammy would have done with it...and I don't think it would have been a #1 hit with melodies and lyrics from another singer.
    <hr></blockquote>Dave came up the hook to Jump when he saw a man on the news on top of the Acro Tower threatening to commit suicide, he thought that there is always a person in the crowd telling the guy to "go ahead and Jump!"

    I think the main reason that people like Jump is the keyboard playing, not the lyrics. Sammy would have done a great job with the lyrics on it also i'm sure. Just think of the incredible lyrics that Sammy wrote to another keyboard based song Why Can't This Be Love, VH's best song IMO! [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img]
    Right Now you're reading my post!


    I can't stand rap....people who can't sing do rap....you can sing rebellion as well as talk it....Hitler would have been in a rap band...

    -- John Entwistle

    2006 VHL Fantasy Hockey Champ!

  11. #11
    Top Of The World Legoman's Avatar
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    12.09.17 @ 12:25 PM
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    Course it wasn't all cheese. Alright there are a few embarrasing moments, "Love Walks In", "Take Me Back" (although I do love it) and "When It's Love" (Eddie's guitar solo is [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img] though).
    BUT there were also some great lyrics IMO.
    "Feelin'" : "Black is white, white is black, got politicians smokin' crack...", I love it.
    Also, "Best of Both Worlds", "Mine All Mine", "Dreams" (It's NOT cheese OK!!) and "Why Can't This Be Love?"
    I prefer Dave-era VH but while some of the credit for that must go to Dave, it's also the music and Eddie's unconventional ideas that are really inspiring.
    Use my hand, I won't look!

  12. #12
    Sinner's Swing!
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    01.10.09 @ 01:07 PM
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    <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Rikk:
    The difference is the lyrics (to me). Listen to any Dave album and you'll hear 90% songs about total attitude. Listen to a Sammy album and he can ruin the songs by using the word "baby" about a hundred time..."we can make it"..."dream another dream"...shut up! He sounds so Michael Bolton-ish on certain songs that should be rocking. The music to something like "Dream Is Over" is very impressive, but the lyrics are unbelievably horrible. Just awful! He ruins the song. Sometimes he's great (HUMANS BEING, BLACK AND BLUE, even if the lyrics aren't exactly brilliant on the latter). But there are many, many more cases of lyrics that sound like football game pep talk, stuff that died in style in the 80's. "Let's do one for the team, baby" kind of talk. I can't quite describe it, but it sounds very dated and cheesy. Dave, to me, is one of the best lyricists in rock. And while a few Dave songs have dated musically, the guy's vocals and lyrics have none of that high-singing 80's sound.

    Still, yes, I love songs in both eras. But Van Hagar also has a lot of duds for me, and Van Roth has almost none.

    (And I love I'LL WAIT, because it still sounds sort of tongue-in-cheek in that classic Dave way, and it's nowhere as cheesy as LOVE WALKS IN or WHEN IT'S LOVE, which are typical 80's AOR Ballads).
    <hr></blockquote>


    I thought Eddie and Glenn Ballard wrote the lyrics for Human Beings because, with Eddie being sober he didn't like what Sammy was bringing to the table???

  13. #13
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    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
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    <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by YankeeRose:
    Dave came up the hook to Jump when he saw a man on the news on top of the Acro Tower threatening to commit suicide, he thought that there is always a person in the crowd telling the guy to "go ahead and Jump!"

    I think the main reason that people like Jump is the keyboard playing, not the lyrics. Sammy would have done a great job with the lyrics on it also i'm sure. Just think of the incredible lyrics that Sammy wrote to another keyboard based song Why Can't This Be Love, VH's best song IMO! [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img]
    <hr></blockquote>

    Incredible lyrics for Sammy, but for Dave it's the keyboard playing? Why Can't This Be Rock, is your fav huh?

    You are always blasting Dave, you cannot erase the first 6 albums. Without them there wouldn't have been a Van Hagar. But, unfortunately there was. [img]graemlins/cry.gif[/img]

    BTW, Sammy's not coming back. It would not be a REUNION then it would be another mistake! [img]tongue.gif[/img]

  14. #14
    Atomic Punk MikeL's Avatar
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    03.03.15 @ 08:31 PM
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    Donor

    The problem with this thread is that there are 3 Dave-era songs identified as cheese, and 5 Sam-era songs identified as non-cheese.

    That's not a strikingly powerful argument. [img]smile.gif[/img]

    DLR songs drive people to experience certain feelings. Sam songs drive those feelings right at people. It depends on what you appreciate more. There's understated subtly, and there's upfront blatantness.

    [ December 08, 2001 at 02:30 PM: Message edited by: MikeL ]</p>

  15. #15
    Sinner's Swing!
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    10.09.12 @ 02:50 PM
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    <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by MikeL:
    and there's upfront blatantness.
    <hr></blockquote>

    I'll say this for Sammy. He knows his audience
    Delusions of eloquence

 

 

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