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  1. #1
    Romeo Delight
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    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
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    Hello guys,
    I hope I have found the right place to write, otherwise...sorry guys!
    The idea for this topic came to me this morning, while I was driving and was listening to a jam recorded on a bootleg, featuring Eddie playing an instrumental version of Hot for teacher; I think it was Les Paul birthday in 1988. Jan Hammer was the man on keyboards.
    I was thinking: man, that's really cool, grooving, great band interplay even though they maybe didn't even reharse.
    But...but, I had once again the impression that Edward maybe is somehow scared or limited in doing jams or trying to widen his musical vision...
    I mean, if you hear the song, the rhythm and the lead sections played together with the band are something familiar with Eddie style, it's kind of the band trying to follow Eddie on his usual licks; like for example, the tremolo part played at the end of the song: it's something that Eddie plays million times in his songs and not so usual to play on a keyboard.
    It's Jan Hammer who tries something different and not Eddie.
    There are other examples of Eddie playing someone else'songs and always using the same licks.
    Eddie too, once said in an interview (it was in 1995) that he was too scared to keep up with people like B. Marsalis, the sax guy, who used to call him to jam and he used to refuse because too scared to do that!
    And everytime I read this things I feel somehow sorry, because a talented guy such Eddie should try to play something different...
    OK, I may sound ungrateful, considering what he has accomplished so far and all the innovations he has done. But I do love Ed's playing; he is the MAN of the electric guitar; no one, IMO is like him; that's why I would love to have heard him play different stuff, to have him reached other musical places: kind of VHIII, but not song-wise!
    It's just because I love the guy so much that I would like to hear him overcoming his boundaries and blow us away with something new.
    What do you think?
    Sorry for being so "long-winded".

    Ciao
    Seicorde

  2. #2
    Good Enough nobozos's Avatar
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    12.15.17 @ 07:40 PM
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    Eddie is a Jazz musician with a really loud guitar. His leads are all crazy and free form, that's why it's so hard for people to follow him through a lead. Have you ever listened to a Van Halen lead through a drummers ears? Count how many time signatures Alex goes through to make a lead fit into some of the songs.
    "Having an opinion that people disagree with doesn't make you a Douche, arguing with the people who disagree with your opinion and calling them stupid does!" -Me.

  3. #3
    Hot For Teacher Trennasol's Avatar
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    01.15.07 @ 05:34 AM
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    As someone who studies jazz seriously, I would not consider EVH a jazz musician. I agree with a lot of the original post here. Now I'm certainly NOT saying EVH isn't beyond amazing, but I do think he hit his limit of expanding his abilities
    in the 80's. Sure he came up with kickass riffs, and kickass leads, but nothing really different from what he had done before. Most all of his solos follow the same blueprint.

    As someone who lives for variety, I think EVH should have allowed himself to make music with other people besides Alex and Mike. Yeah he has played with lots of other people, but played in the same style that he used in Van Halen. I guess he was just immersed in 'his' thing. Nothing wrong with that cause he's one of the best rock guitar players on the planet.

  4. #4
    Atomic Punk BREW CREW's Avatar
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    08.27.17 @ 09:39 AM
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    Eddie innovated his own style which many others have tried to immitate. He knows only what he knows and can jam with anyone. The band he was with was following him and that is what I would have done. After all, he is the best rock guitarist around. And that is what the band was probably thinking...I bet they were saying to themselves..." man, how did WE end up playing with Eddie. Eddie, Alex and Mike are the only three that can play together as good as they do...so any other mix might/will sound different....Eddie was the leader of the pack in the "1988" jam.
    Just go for it!

  5. #5
    Hot For Teacher
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    02.26.08 @ 08:19 PM
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    I gotta admit to noticing the same licks cropping up again and again, especially in the early boots and demos but he puts a different spin on them so they don't get old.
    <b>Obey the DFK!!</b><br /><br />"Teacher needs to see me after school"

  6. #6
    Unchained coyote's Avatar
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    12.15.17 @ 10:57 AM
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    I don't want to get into the whole Sammy/Dave thing, but it always seemed to me that Eddie stopped developing as a player after 1984(the album, not necessarily the year). He has always been a blues-based player(damn those boxes), but it seemed that up until that record, he constantly found innovative ways to mix up the notes. From the boots that I have heard his live playing, he has never been really adventurous live. He sticks to the record, not that there is anything wrong with that. Back to the point, from a stylistic point of view, 1984 was Eddie at his most inspired, just check out the diversity of songs and the lack of repetitive licks on each cut.
    Starting with 5150, the focus was on pop writing. Again, not that there was anything wrong with that, but I remember George Lynch in a magazine lamenting the fact that Eddie's songwriting was so adventurous until 5150. That is one case where George Lynch was right on. After Sammy joined the band the arrangements were more formulaic, poppy. There was some really good stuff there, but the playing had become stale. I remember getting into an argument on the VHML back in the day about the song "Feeling". People were raving about that solo, I always felt that it was almost a parody of what Eddie Van Halen used to be. The only thing that redeemed III in my eyes was that it featured some of Ed's best soloing in years.

    Sorry for the rant,

    Jack

  7. #7
    Sinner's Swing!
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    11.22.10 @ 04:57 AM
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    in a few words i always thinked that eddie is more a shy guy that we know , maybe afraid to be called a guitar hero . maybethis scared him for doing jams with people that got more theory in their instruments . but this doesn't means they're better . Eddie invented a way and a look to play ... andmaybe he didn't realize at top this thing about him .
    the difference is ... a cool guitarist may play so damn fast and shred , but he studied others to make this .
    Eddie studied the others and INVENTED . that's the genius .
    But finally i'm gonna sayd that for me eddie is a shy boy , more that we think .
    The biggest Van halen fan from italy and ... of course ... the Yuuunnkkk creator !!


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  8. #8
    Good Enough
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    03.30.13 @ 09:28 AM
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    I agree with Trennasol. Ed's not a jazz musician.
    While he's very versatile within his own spectrum of music, he follows certain patterns that make him immediately identifiable as EVH. Extremely inventive, but still adhering to a set style.
    When you listen to someone like Steve Vai, whose trained in all styles of music "on the guitar", and can go into numerous veins at the flick of a wrist you can see that. It's much harder following someone like Vai cause you can never tell what he's going to do. He can slip in and out of other people's styles, or maintain his own style and go off on tangents that cover jazz, rock or blues without sounding like he's repeating himself.

  9. #9
    Romeo Delight
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    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
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    I think myself too that Eddie should have allowed himself to make music with other people; it would have helped him widen his playing.
    Again, the fact that you recognize him from the first note is the trademark of THE guitar god, but sometimes when I listen to some stuff live I think: man, he's playing the same licks over and over: pentatonic boxes widened by some tap-ons, artificial harmonics, whammy bar and tremolo part in the end.
    In my opinion, what really makes Eddie the greatest and nobody can be like him, is his ability to write riffs, to join them together musically and to write songs and not backup basis to solo over.
    Once a friend of mine put on three VH CDs, chose three different songs from each one and played them in the middle of the songs...well, I guessed all the songs in the fraction of a second!
    That's not to say that I am cool, but that Eddie is a real master in writing riffs, always different.
    If you listen to the beginning of every song he wrote, well, everyone is real different!
    This is what really makes me think that he is a genius.
    His tecnhique might be old nowadays and he might play always the same solos, but rhythm-wise there's no one like him.
    If only he would have played different kind of music, may be guitar polls would never be around...always won by the same man: king Ed!
    Ciao
    [img]smile.gif[/img]

  10. #10
    Sinner's Swing!
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    11.22.10 @ 04:57 AM
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    Maybe now that is not under warner bros he can pull out different kinda of music ... not commercial but cool too .

    I know he's not good on jazz stuff , but on the bluesy stuff he did some cool things .

    Btw ... i think that all the greatest guitarsit in the world are pretty repetitive on their guitar work .
    is like speaking ... you speak in a way , but you can know more than a language , but finally you got your way to speak in any language .

    Eddie for me put on discs the 40% of what he is .
    I listened over and over to bootlegs of him playing and there i discovered the genius of him ...
    for example ... if you listen to eddie on 1984 tour ... now in 2002 ... you gotta admit " jezz ... what a cool if i had been there to see this crazy guy ! " .
    I think eddie is more than what you may listen on a vinil or cd . A lot more .
    The biggest Van halen fan from italy and ... of course ... the Yuuunnkkk creator !!


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  11. #11
    Atomic Punk BREW CREW's Avatar
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    08.27.17 @ 09:39 AM
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    Originally posted by tribb:
    I agree with Trennasol. Ed's not a jazz musician.
    While he's very versatile within his own spectrum of music, he follows certain patterns that make him immediately identifiable as EVH. Extremely inventive, but still adhering to a set style.
    When you listen to someone like Steve Vai, whose trained in all styles of music "on the guitar", and can go into numerous veins at the flick of a wrist you can see that. It's much harder following someone like Vai cause you can never tell what he's going to do. He can slip in and out of other people's styles, or maintain his own style and go off on tangents that cover jazz, rock or blues without sounding like he's repeating himself.
    That's what I love about VAI, unpredictable on and off the stage and behind the guitar. Virtuoso's meaning should have a pic of Vai. [img]smile.gif[/img]
    Just go for it!

  12. #12
    Atomic Punk
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    05.31.14 @ 08:17 PM
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    My understanding of Ed is that,early on, the band (Dave and Alex) wouldn't let Ed jam with other artists. Later on he came to value his home life because he was out on tour so much. Then there was his drinking which limited his mobility. He's not the kind of guy to drink and drive so unless Val was along Ed was home bound. Also the guy is pretty shy but he did get around. He jammed with Holdsworth at GIT and the Pretenders at UCLA.

    Jamming with other musicians doesn't always work out either. On the "Secret Policeman's Other Ball" Jeff Beck blows Clapton out of the water but I don't believe that this is a fair representation of either guy's talent. While you can get some great moments, most of the time you get great players just fooling around. When you jam you are just playing for yourself. If you turn it into a pissing contest you ruin it.

    I'd like to hear the whole soundtrack to "Wild Life" and I'd kill to hear what's on the many tapes lying around 5150. I hope Ed has a few suprises left for all of us.

    Oh yeah, as far as Ed being repetitive, that's okay by me. I don't listen to him because he sounds like the guy in Weezer.
    "Nothing is ever what it seems but everything is exactly what it is." - B. Banzai


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  13. #13
    Hot For Teacher
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    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
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    it always seemed to me that Eddie stopped developing as a player after 1984
    i agree with you that his solos after that album were not necessarily better on their own but i do think he integrated his solos into the songs better as time went on. they seem to be more part of the song through F.U.C.K. and balance than before when it did seem to be song/solo/song

  14. #14
    Atomic Punk
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    05.31.14 @ 08:17 PM
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    I thought that Ed's playing on VHIII showed growth. Maybe Ed doesn't take chances because his fans don't seem to respond too well when he does stick his neck out.

    Just my opinion.
    "Nothing is ever what it seems but everything is exactly what it is." - B. Banzai


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  15. #15
    Unchained coyote's Avatar
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    12.15.17 @ 10:57 AM
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    Let me make one thing clear, in no way did I try to imply that Ed turned into CC DeVille or something. When I wrote that he stopped developing as a player, I meant that I found his soloing more conservative. His soloing, with rare exceptions, always fit the song, song structure, etc. It always seemed to fit. His playing with Hagar missed out on that sense of adventure. One of my favorite aspects of Ed's playing is his attack. Listen to the out solo in "One Foot Out the Door". Not his greatest work, but the energy and aggression really came through. You can almost see him abusing his guitar there. Good stuff. In my orignal rant, I said that Ed's soloing on III was the high point of the recording. Most VH fans were used to Ed taking chances. Some worked, others did not. I think that the III backlash came in part because Ed stopped taking chances for so many years and recordings.

    Jack

 

 

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