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  1. #1
    Little Dreamer
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    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
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    Hey there! I have been reading all of the Van Halen boards for as long as they have been up!!!! I barly post anywhere because; well, it is way to depressing! LOL I enjoy reading stuff hear though! Very entertaining!!!! Well I decided to post because I need help with some gear!!!!

    I just purchased one of the original 5150 heads.(The patent pending one with block letters!) I have been in contact with the dude that runs www.eurotubes.com! I purchased the full JJ set of tubes for the amp. Anyway, the guy had a great suggestion on how to make these amps sound like they should! Rebias the damn thing! I have always loved my 5150 combo! It has the sound that I would like to get out of the 5150 head!!!! Just read the site. He explains the whole thing. I think that it is going to sound killer!!!!! I may try the bias job with my 5150 II also!

    Now, I need help with getting a certain effect! I want to get an Eventide Harmonizer or something that can get the Pitchshift/ D-Tune effect that is present in the modern Van Halen stuff! I know that everyone hates Van Halen 3, but I think Eddies sound was really awesome on that album! I just listened to the overall tone. That is the kind of pitchshift/ D-Tune effect that I want! I already have a T.C. Electronics G Major for the Delay/ Reverb.

    I am thinking about getting a THD Hotplate and running all of the effects into it! That way I can stay away from the effects loop, except for a noise gate of course! Also, this will maybe save my hearing! LOL

    Thoughts?

    By the way, I checked out Rols Guitar site and I think that I might get one of those someday! I think the Earthtone Red one kicks some serious ass!!!! Keep up the good work Rols!

    [ March 04, 2003, 08:45 PM: Message edited by: Motrock ]

  2. #2
    Hot For Teacher
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    12.28.12 @ 10:39 AM
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    Hi there,

    May I be the first to welcome you into the Guitar Room ! We're all a little mad in here, but very passionate about guitars. Expect criticism (some of it constructive - some even intelligent [img]tongue.gif[/img] ). But keep cool, and enjoy it, and have fun.

    Anyway, onto your post. I didn't really understand most of it (but rest assured that there are people on here that will).

    However, for the Drop D effect, would just tuning to drop D not suffice ? Or am I missing something here ?

    <inserted silence for everyone to gasp at my possible stupidity>

    <tumbleweed rolls by>

    Right, now that's over with, just in case I am being stupid.

    Anyway, I'm getting slightly paranoid at the moment, as I have a feeling that I may be a thread stopper. i.e. as soon as I reply to a thread, they seem to die a horrible death and dissapear to page 24 !

    Hopefully, this will not be the case with this post, and you will get more replies, but don't hold me responsible if you don't.

    Right, I'm gonna sit in the corner being paranoid, hoping that someone else replies !
    "<i>You can please <b>some</b> of the people <b>all</b> of the time,<br />And <b>all</b> of the people <b>some</b> of the time,<br />But you can't please <b>all</b> of the people <b>all</b> of the time !</i>"<br /><br />(was Dave5150 on <b><i>The Pleasure Dome</i></b>)<br /><br />Check out some of my music at: <a href="http://www.dave5150.com" target="_blank">www.dave5150.com</a>

  3. #3
    Little Dreamer
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    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
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    Basically what I was talking about was the chorusing effect that Eddie uses! The effect name on the Eventide and other units like the G Major is called Pitchshift, or even D-Tune! It will produce something similar to a chorus. I need to know if the G-Major will produce a high enough quality Pitchshift? Would an old Eventide Harmonizer be my best bet?

    Also, I am not really looking for a huge chorusing pitchshift! If you listen to the last 3 songs on the Best Of Volume 1, that is what I am looking for. Nothing to extreme! Just something to make my tone really really huge!!!!

  4. #4
    Sinner's Swing!
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    12.17.17 @ 02:50 PM
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    If you absolutely *must* have the detune effect created by an expensive dedicated harmonizer, you may get lucky and find a used Eventide model somewhere, or even the old Digitech model.

    Otherwise, I'd go with a nice chorus, and give up sounding *exactly* like Eddie.

  5. #5
    XTC man! homeunit's Avatar
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    09.05.15 @ 12:20 PM
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    The g major does it nicely on the d-tune preset with a little tweaking.

  6. #6
    Romeo Delight
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    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
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    Motrock, I have a 5150 head as well. There's things I like about it, and things I don't. I'd like it to be a little warmer sounding.

    I read the article on rebiasing. When you've got this done, I'd like to hear what you have to say about it - please email or pm me...

    I'm leary to have someone local do the job for me as I'm not sure they know what they're doin...

  7. #7
    Little Dreamer
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    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
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    The guy that is at Eurotubes is doing it! The address is www.eurotubes.com

    The man knows what he is talking about!!!!

  8. #8
    Romeo Delight
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    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
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    I will probably get some flames for this, but I will offer it anyway. Bob is a great salesman, but amp tech he is certainly not.

    If somebody asks me about this type of mod, this is the response I usually give. Take it as you will.

    "We do not endorse or recommend this modification.
    The reason for the fixed circuit that is used in our current line of guitar amplifiers is based on our policy of providing quality gear at a reasonable price. We try to do anything we can on the design end to give our customers a quality, reliable product that will provide many years of trouble free use.

    Many frequent service problems with tube amps are caused by bias controls that are set incorrectly, or have drifted out of adjustment due to age and vibration.
    Years ago we had adjustable bias, and there were numerous service problems (blown tubes, transformers, fuses, etc) due to incorrect settings. We've made the choice to use fixed resistors on our amps to prevent consumers from making adjustments on their own and burning up EXPENSIVE power amp tubes.

    Our circuit extends tube life, saves you money, and makes the amplifier more reliable. You can use virtually any good set of matched power tubes with this design without adjusting bias.

    IMPORTANT!
    The 5150 gets most of its tonal characteristics from the preamp gain stages and NOT the power amp.
    Adding a bias pot does not affect tone to any significant degree with this type of design. This circuit also saves you money because the tubes can be user replaced, thus eliminating the added expense of putting it in the shop and having a tech adjust it every time.

    I just think (my personal opinion) that for most users, the small tone difference that a bias change will make is not worth the added expense and hassle. You would be better served to experiment with various preamp tubes when seeking different tones. This will make much more difference in the sound of the amp than having an adjustable bias."

  9. #9
    Little Dreamer
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    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
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    I have been told the same thing before!

    But, your leaving out one thing!

    The 5150 combo is biased higher than both 5150 heads. My combo smokes both the 5150 heads, and I have all 3! I know a couple of people that have had the bias bumped up to 40ma and had no problems! Its not like I am going to have it bumped up to 50ma! LOL I am just bringing the 5150 up to the same levels as the combo! I have no problem with changing tubes a lot!

    Part of Eddies sound with the 5150s is power tube distortion! He keeps his pre gain and post gain at 6.5 to 7.(Both are neck and neck) I have even seen this on the Brown Sound site(pics that is!) For some reason that site isn't working.

  10. #10
    Good Enough
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    03.30.13 @ 09:28 AM
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    Originally posted by rcrimm:
    I will probably get some flames for this, but I will offer it anyway. Bob is a great salesman, but amp tech he is certainly not.

    If somebody asks me about this type of mod, this is the response I usually give. Take it as you will.

    "We do not endorse or recommend this modification.
    The reason for the fixed circuit that is used in our current line of guitar amplifiers is based on our policy of providing quality gear at a reasonable price. We try to do anything we can on the design end to give our customers a quality, reliable product that will provide many years of trouble free use.

    Many frequent service problems with tube amps are caused by bias controls that are set incorrectly, or have drifted out of adjustment due to age and vibration.
    Years ago we had adjustable bias, and there were numerous service problems (blown tubes, transformers, fuses, etc) due to incorrect settings. We've made the choice to use fixed resistors on our amps to prevent consumers from making adjustments on their own and burning up EXPENSIVE power amp tubes.

    Our circuit extends tube life, saves you money, and makes the amplifier more reliable. You can use virtually any good set of matched power tubes with this design without adjusting bias.

    IMPORTANT!
    The 5150 gets most of its tonal characteristics from the preamp gain stages and NOT the power amp.
    Adding a bias pot does not affect tone to any significant degree with this type of design. This circuit also saves you money because the tubes can be user replaced, thus eliminating the added expense of putting it in the shop and having a tech adjust it every time.

    I just think (my personal opinion) that for most users, the small tone difference that a bias change will make is not worth the added expense and hassle. You would be better served to experiment with various preamp tubes when seeking different tones. This will make much more difference in the sound of the amp than having an adjustable bias."
    No flame from me. I couldn't agree more.
    Biasing an amp hotter will also depend on what the power tubes are able to handle. Once you surpass that you risk some serious damage to the head. If you want the bias a bit hotter, as long as it's within the manufacturer's tolerance that shouldn't be a problem. Take it too far and have your wallet primed and ready to go. Beside the fact that good quality 6L6's can be expensive, replacing transformers or boards are even more so.

    JJ's 6L6's are supposed to be able to take a hotter bias because of how they're designed, so those are a good tube to use if you want a higher current, but even if you kick up the bias a bit it won't affect your tone or sustain to any degree when you're already using an amp that's as gainy as a 5150.
    I agree that for the average player experimenting with some different types of preamp tubes,(US., Chinese, Russian, etc...) will make a lot more difference than just biasing hotter.
    I don't play 5150's so I can only go by what I'm told here, but I know players that use 12AT7's instead of 12AX7's in the first and/or 2nd gain stage of their 5150, which apparently takes some power away but will clean up your tone somewhat and give you more headroom.

    [ March 08, 2003, 12:29 PM: Message edited by: tribb ]

  11. #11
    Little Dreamer
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    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
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    Guys, the goal here is clearity! I want to get just out of crossover distortion!!!! I am not wanting to go overboard with this! Some of the most minor tweeks to these things can make a difference! I absolutly do not believe in overkill!!!!!!!!!!! I am very confident about what I am doing to my 5150! Besides, I am getting a THD Hotplate so I can run the Post gain at 7, just like the Pre Gain! The Hotplates line out is where the T.C. Electronics G Major and the soon to be Eventide H3000 Harmonizer will go. I will split the signal with a Peavey Classic 50/50 Power Amp into two 5150 4x12s!

    I know someone who has this exact setup using a Soldano SLO-100!

 

 

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