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  1. #1
    Romeo Delight cf's Avatar
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    08.13.16 @ 12:42 PM
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    I was wondering if you guys could help me out on getting Ed's early sound (ie the first record) while still using my amp. I've seen articles where it breaks down his early rig, I know he used a Phase 90, MXR Flanger and Echoplex but would these work with my setup?

    One concern I have is I don't seem to get enough distortion out of my amp unless I go through the effects processor, so I don't think I could go straight through the pedals into the amp.

    My current setup is this:

    Wolfgang Standard
    Crate combo amp (2 12" Celestions)
    Digitech RP1 effects processor

    Any help would be much appreciated, Thanks!! [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img]

  2. #2
    XTC man! homeunit's Avatar
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    09.05.15 @ 12:20 PM
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    Well other than getting another amp, I'd suggest getting a phase 90, (not the reissue), a flanger, (reissue is fine) and a boost for your signal. Something transparent like this or a tube screamer, although I'd recomend the sparkle first.

    good luck bro [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img]
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  3. #3
    Eruption
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    12.14.17 @ 01:28 PM
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    One bit of advice on getting an Eddie tone. . .

    don't get "distortion" confused with volume. Eddie was FUCKING loud. . .which contributed more to his tone than many guitarists know. Old Marshalls are NOT high gain monster amps, they are however LOUD. Just a tip.
    www.facebook.com/revery
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  4. #4
    Romeo Delight
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    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
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    Yeah, I think the real limiting factor there is going to be your amp, because the sound you want relies very heavily on overdriving the power tubes, which generally means cranking a tube amp (you didn't mention if your Crate was tube). What kind of sound are you currently getting?

    Oh, and about the reissue Phase 90s, have you guys read about the mods that supposedly greatly improve the sound? (more transparent, less distortion)

    ratter.

  5. #5
    Sinner's Swing! Rick S's Avatar
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    06.23.17 @ 09:49 PM
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    i think its gonna take quiet a few factors to get eds early sound. guitar pickups,wood, amp head speakers, eq post effects. no ones ever gonna nail that tone maybe come close though. hey ratter, i heard that inside the phase 90 re issues theres a tiny trim pot covered with a dab of glue that can be adjusted.
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  6. #6
    Romeo Delight cf's Avatar
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    08.13.16 @ 12:42 PM
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    Hey, I really appreciate all the info from you guys.

    Let me try to respond to your comments:

    Well other than getting another amp, I'd suggest getting a phase 90, (not the reissue).
    You mean trying to find an original, not the ones you can buy now?

    don't get "distortion" confused with volume. Eddie was FUCKING loud. . .which contributed more to his tone than many guitarists know. Old Marshalls are NOT high gain monster amps, they are however LOUD. Just a tip.
    Unfortunately, I don't have the luxury of cranking the shit out of the amp. So I need kind of a low volume solution (if that's possible). I can get a pretty damn good distortion and sustain going through my effects processor at a low volume (settings are: distortion, compression, chorus, delay and reverb), but without the effects processor it sounds like crap.


    Yeah, I think the real limiting factor there is going to be your amp, because the sound you want relies very heavily on overdriving the power tubes, which generally means cranking a tube amp (you didn't mention if your Crate was tube). What kind of sound are you currently getting?
    My amp is a solid state amp. As I said above the sound I get WITH the effects processor is OK (not great) even at low volume.

    I guess I'm confused about using the effects processor, if I don't use it I don't get the distortion/bite/sustain necessary, if I do use it, I don't know how to incorporate Ed' effects into my setup.

    The effects processor seems to have every goddamn setting/option you can think of, but I don't seem to have much luck using it. For example it has a flanger, and I've tried to use it playing the intro to ATBL but it doesn't sound right.

    I guess I'm looking for a low volume solution for getting as close to Ed's sound as possible. And if I have to (wife permitting) I will get another amp.

    Thanks again for all the info! [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img]

  7. #7
    Romeo Delight
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    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
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    Originally posted by Rick S:
    i think its gonna take quiet a few factors to get eds early sound. guitar pickups,wood, amp head speakers, eq post effects. no ones ever gonna nail that tone maybe come close though. hey ratter, i heard that inside the phase 90 re issues theres a tiny trim pot covered with a dab of glue that can be adjusted.
    I've heard about the trim pot, and also at least one component that if removed, gets the reissue at lot closer to script-logo specs/sound. That's according to somebody on the plexi-palace boards that supposedly got the info from Dunlop/MXR. (a friend of my girlfriend's cousin knows a guy who worked with the uncle of...)

    Anyhow, I plan on trying the mod(s) soon, I'll post back if the results are as cool as they say.

    As for the original question, here's what I'd do in this scenario: if you dig the tone of the digitech, I would run the digitech's output into the effets loop return of the Crate. Then all your tone shaping is coming from the digitech and you can concentrate your efforts there. One thing to be mindful of is that with that setup, the Crate will be running full-volume no matter what the Crate's controls are set at (it's basically a dumb power amp and speaker cab at that point), so use the Digitech to control volume.

    As for the Digitech, read the manual! [img]smile.gif[/img] It sounds like you're not using anywhere near the full potential of the unit. And it won't be until you've maxed it out that you'll know whether or not it's worthwhile to spend, say, the extra $75 on the Phase 90 (it might turn out that the Digitech has a phaser that's Good Enough).

    If it does turn out that you want to add additional effects (say, a Phase 90 and an MXR Flanger), just run them into the front of the Digitech, as if you were running them into the front of an amp, because in the scenario I'm describing, the Digitech is essentially the preamp and the Crate is the power amp, so treat them accordingly.

    Hope this helps a little,
    ratter.

  8. #8
    Eruption
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    12.14.17 @ 01:28 PM
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    Yes, I assumed you could get decent distortion and sustain at a low volume from your gear. But, what I said is don't get that confused with what Eddie had going on. His tone has the illusion of distortion and sustain from the volume he was playing at. A tube amp will distort naturally the louder it is. Eddie's marshall was an old Super Lead. . .those amps and definitely NOT known for their preamp section. They are volume monsters, and that was a big factor in his tone.

    With your gear, I would suggest setting your distortion at a medium level, and concentrate on getting the delay and reverb to sound right. If your amp is tube, turn it up and have your effects blended very slightly. Let your amp generate the tone and "sprinkle" the effects on top.
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  9. #9
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    09.08.06 @ 11:08 PM
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    yeah, you are looking for volume and sustain and not really distortion....if you would like to get an amp that is close to WHATEVER tone you are looking for, check out www.voodooamps.com trace is a great guy and can modify or build an amp for you to get the tones YOU want...i'm sure he can get close to this tone...his specialties are old marshall plexis and vintage amps, this guy knows what he's talking about and is very very good...if you email him, tell him monty-jay sent you, maybe he'll help you out more [img]smile.gif[/img]

  10. #10
    Good Enough nobozos's Avatar
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    12.17.17 @ 07:24 AM
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    CF, please don't take this the wrong way, but you have got to get over trying to find Eddies tone. It depends on so many things. Do you want his tone on Panama, or do you want his tone on Unchained, or Big Bad Bill for that matter. Ed has use a lot of different gear and guitars on different songs to get the sound he wanted. My humble advice is, unless you are going to play in a tribute band, develop your own tone. I love Eddies music, and I think that he is a musical genius, but I would rather play like Neil Schon or Zakk Wilde. There are certian qualities about Eddies tone I like, and I use some of his general philosiphies toward tone, but I don't want to try to emulate his exact sound. Take a little of what you like about Eddies tone and apply it to other sounds you think are cool. Make your own tone, that's what Eddie did. The best advice I can give anyone that is really concerned about getting good tone is get a tube amp! Solid state amps take the true signal out of your guitar, interpret it into a digital signal, fills in the blanks and spits it out. A tube amp gives you the true tone of your guitar. I could never understand someone who owns a $1500.00 guitar playing through an amp that doesn't let you hear the tone quality of the wood. Also, if you want the true tone of your guitar, never use a wireless system, it does the same thing to your signal that a solid state amp does. BTW, stay away from digital effects or any kind of modeling amps or effects, it's all tone trickery. You have a guitar with great natural tone quality, just investigate the natural characteristics of your guitar through a tube amp.

    [ April 12, 2002 at 07:25 PM: Message edited by: nobozos ]</p>
    "Having an opinion that people disagree with doesn't make you a Douche, arguing with the people who disagree with your opinion and calling them stupid does!" -Me.

  11. #11
    Romeo Delight cf's Avatar
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    08.13.16 @ 12:42 PM
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    Thanks everyone for all the advice, I'm going to try out some of the suggestions.

    Originally posted by nobozos:
    CF, please don't take this the wrong way, but you have got to get over trying to find Eddies tone. It depends on so many things. Do you want his tone on Panama, or do you want his tone on Unchained, or Big Bad Bill for that matter. Ed has use a lot of different gear and guitars on different songs to get the sound he wanted. My humble advice is, unless you are going to play in a tribute band, develop your own tone. I love Eddies music, and I think that he is a musical genius, but I would rather play like Neil Schon or Zakk Wilde. There are certian qualities about Eddies tone I like, and I use some of his general philosiphies toward tone, but I don't want to try to emulate his exact sound. Take a little of what you like about Eddies tone and apply it to other sounds you think are cool. Make your own tone, that's what Eddie did. The best advice I can give anyone that is really concerned about getting good tone is get a tube amp! Solid state amps take the true signal out of your guitar, interpret it into a digital signal, fills in the blanks and spits it out. A tube amp gives you the true tone of your guitar. I could never understand someone who owns a $1500.00 guitar playing through an amp that doesn't let you hear the tone quality of the wood. Also, if you want the true tone of your guitar, never use a wireless system, it does the same thing to your signal that a solid state amp does. BTW, stay away from digital effects or any kind of modeling amps or effects, it's all tone trickery. You have a guitar with great natural tone quality, just investigate the natural characteristics of your guitar through a tube amp.
    You know No Bozo's, in my post I kind of came off a little like a dork that just picked up the guitar, so I can see why you responded like you did. In reality, I've been playing guitar for about 12 years and I consider myself a pretty decent player. I have my own style, I play my own stuff as well as tunes by my favorite bands. As far as my equipment goes, I never took it seriously enough to spend a lot on gear (my wife bought me the WG as a gift, I wouldn't have spent that much on a guitar).

    I'm not looking to become an Eddie clone, but I really enjoy playing his tunes and when I do, I really get a kick out of sounding as close as possible to the record. It really has nothing to do with "finding my own style etc etc" it's just for fun!

    Not a big deal, just thought I should clarify where I'm coming from. [img]smile.gif[/img]

    [ April 12, 2002 at 08:57 PM: Message edited by: cf ]</p>

  12. #12
    Good Enough nobozos's Avatar
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    12.17.17 @ 07:24 AM
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    Hey CF, I really did not mean to offend. Let me give you some background. I've been married for 11 years so I know exactly where your coming from. The first decent guitar I owned was a Purple Wolf Standard, and the only reason I got it was because I could get it for $1000.00 brand new. I took out a loan to get it, even though my wife objected. I have been through alot of gear since then. I play in a band, and found that no matter what songs you play, if your band has it's own distinctive tone, the songs are yours even if someone else wrote them. I was only trying to lend some insight, because I honestly have been where you are now. I wanted the Wolfgang and the 5150 amp so I could sound like Eddie, but no matter what I tried, I couldn't do it. There was always something that just wasn't right. I tried all of the same gear, amp settings, effects, and still couldn't do it. I finally gave up on it, and that is when I found happiness. I ended up getting a JCM 900 100watt hi gain dual reverb combo amp. The only effects I use is a Tube Screamer and a Chorus pedal. I play an Axis, and I love my tone. I guess I just found sometimes less is more. I am by no means an expert in this field, but I do know some things, so you have to believe me when I tell you I was just trying to help. Peace. [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img]
    "Having an opinion that people disagree with doesn't make you a Douche, arguing with the people who disagree with your opinion and calling them stupid does!" -Me.

  13. #13
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    02.26.08 @ 08:19 PM
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    Originally posted by nobozos:
    The best advice I can give anyone that is really concerned about getting good tone is get a tube amp! Solid state amps take the true signal out of your guitar, interpret it into a digital signal, fills in the blanks and spits it out. A tube amp gives you the true tone of your guitar.
    That's why I got the AVT20 as it's got tubes in the pre-amp.
    I know it's not as good but surely it can come close.

    I may be wrong as I don't know much about amps but that was my thinking when I bought it.
    <b>Obey the DFK!!</b><br /><br />"Teacher needs to see me after school"

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    09.08.06 @ 11:08 PM
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    if you want to get closer with a tube amp, check out www.voodooamps.com email trace and tell him what kinds of tones you are looking for....not sure if he can mod your amp, but they do lots of work on lots of tube amps...they are building my NEW amp right now, voiced for a metallica sound...tell him monty-jay sent you and who knows what *could* happen...maybe nothing,maybe something.... [img]smile.gif[/img]

  15. #15
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    10.06.12 @ 06:27 PM
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    We played a gig last night and we did Little Dreamer and Somebody Get Me a doctor.With my rig I am nailing the tones Ed got on those songs.I'm using a Marshall JCM800 2210 (100 watt 2 channel)with JJ EL34S tubes on the gain channel.I run into a tube screamer(modded by Analog Mike),a Phase 90,Danelectro Dan-Echo(great for the old tape echo sound),and a Boss GE-7 eq through a GCX switching sytem.Volume is the name of the game and you need to have the gain jacked.Oh and I'm using a Wolfgang Special.Check out the photo.
    Originally Posted by vanzefflin
    This configuration cancels noise or cyclical hum. Hence, the name humbucker. It bucks hum.

 

 

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