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  1. #1
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    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
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    I'm not here to argue but one or two of you are still convinced that I am wrong about the neck and pickups. Here is an unedited email I recieved from Joe at Ernie Ball, He has given me permission to post it...If you still are not convinced.. Well believe what Majastic tells you,
    What can I say? BTW this is the THIRD person from Ernie Ball to tell me the same thing via email.

    Dear David,

    Thanks for contacting Ernie Ball Music Man!

    There were 3 changes that were made to the EVH model that we now call the Axis model:

    1) There was a 1/32" increase in the neck where it connects on to the body.
    2) The pickup selector switch was moved down by the volume control.
    3) The backside top part of the guitar now has a contour (whereas it was square before).

    Everything else about the guitar is the same. All the Axis necks and pickups have the exact same specs. Keep in mind that all our bodies and necks are hand sanded which allows for more attention to detail but a small amount of variance from guitar to guitar. These differences, though, are minute.

    Floyd Rose did make some changes to their bridge & saddles, but those were not our changes.

    If you have any more questions, just let us know!

    Best Regards,

    Joel Limpic
    Ernie Ball, Inc.

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    03.30.13 @ 09:28 AM
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    Those might be the 3 physical changes they say they did, but you ought to play a few different models and see for yourself.
    He even told you they hand sand them just like you said. Those machines must cut them extremely smooth if all it take is a hand sanding on extremely hard maple.
    By the way, your email says that Floyd Rose made some slight changes to their bridges, but Floyd Rose never made their bridges. They were always made by Gotoh.
    Strange that the EBMM company wouldn't know who makes their bridges.

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    09.05.15 @ 12:20 PM
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    Originally posted by tribb:
    Strange that the EBMM company wouldn't know who makes their bridges.
    [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/sssh.gif[/img]
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  4. #4
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    12.11.17 @ 07:17 PM
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    Again, this guy isn't going to reveal EVERYTHING THAT HAS CHANGED about the models.

    It blows my mind that Four4Four is respecting someone who is PAID to say exactly what his MARKETING executives TELL HIM, over ACTUAL PHYSICAL FINDINGS from people who OWN BOTH GUITARS (ME).

    Again, regardless of the "variance" in the necks (the difference is MUCH MORE than the standard deviation that occurs between sanding, trust me)

    I'm also blue in the face from making this point:
    THE PICKUPS ARE NOT IDENTICAL.

    Forget about sound (they don't sound the same, at ALL)

    I'm talking PHYSICAL DIMENSIONS AND POLE SPACING!!

    The pickup cavity is routed the same as the Axis Standard, yet the Super Sport humbucker DOES NOT EXTEND AS FAR as the Axis standard model!!! [img]graemlins/irked.gif[/img]

    The poles don't even LINE UP with the strings!!!

    And it's not just because of any "bridge variance".....the poles are not physically as FAR APART on the Super Sport model as they are on the Axis Standard!!! [img]graemlins/wtf.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/wtf.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/wtf.gif[/img]

    *** HOW MUCH MORE PROOF DO YOU NEED??? *** [img]graemlins/wtf.gif[/img]

  5. #5
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    12.11.17 @ 07:17 PM
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    A good man always admits when he has made erroneous statements.

    A true Van Halen fan must also EXPLAIN the error if he is to maintain his brown sound integrity. [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img]

    I just finished measuring my two guitars, one is an Axis from 1997, the other is an Axis Super Sport that I purchased about 3 months ago.

    Here we go:

    The necks are not the same. Period. End of story. The neck on the Super Sport is slimmer (i.e. less "full"). Period.

    Now, here's where my incorrect statements come into play:

    I've said that the pickups were not identical, and that the pole pieces weren't aligned the same. That is FALSE.

    I've also said that the pickup on the Axis extends farther from the body than it does on the Super Sport, and therefore, they are not the same size. TRUE, and FALSE, respectively. [img]graemlins/wtf.gif[/img]

    Here we go:

    The pickup cavity in my Axis Super Sport is routed almost an EIGHTH OF AN INCH deeper than it is on my Axis Standard. Because the pickup is screwed directly into the body, THIS is what causes the difference in pickup height, not to mention the difference in output and tone!

    Now, the reason the strings aren't lining up the same *IS IN FACT BECAUSE OF THE BRIDGE*. More specifically, the saddles themselves are aligned differently. It took me forever to realize this. I assumed that the bridge was the same, because the spatial difference between the strings was identical to the Axis Standard.

    Trouble is, the SADDLES themselves are aligned such that the 6th string lines up DIRECTLY in the middle of its respective pole piece! By the time you get to the 1st string, ALL HELL HAS BROKEN LOOSE! [img]graemlins/scared.gif[/img]

    See, with the Axis Standard, the bridge is aligned so that the middle two strings (the 3rd and the 4th) are the only two that are TRULY lined up through the middle of their pole pieces....everything else is close, but not truly lined up down the middle. The bottom string, for instance, is on the outer left edge of the pole piece. Again, not so on the (or at least my) Axis Super Sport. The 6th string lines up right down the middle of the pole piece, which means everything else is therefore SHIFTED TO THE RIGHT, not only affecting appearance, but also *slightly* affecting tone.

    Now, this would ALSO explain why the high E string sometimes slips off the edge of the neck. Everything is shifted to the right, therefore creating that situation.

    (Of course, it doesn't change the fact that the necks aren't the same. I don't have a good way to scientifically measure the necks, other than to use dental floss, which tells me that the Axis Super Sport's neck isn't the same. Or at least, *MINE ISN'T THE SAME*)

    Maybe because these necks aren't made by Peavey's Sterile Evil Boring Android Robots with Storm Trooper Assistance, the dimensions shift more than the luthiers at Music Man care to admit. Either way, they are both AWESOME necks, different, but both great.

    In my opinion, and it's only my guess, the height of the pickup (or lack of, actually) is MUCH more to blame than the nitpicky variance in pole piece alignment when it comes to tone.

    So there you have it. Identical string spacing, identical pickups, but DIFFERENT PICKUP CAVITY.

    And by the way, if anybody thinks 1/8" of an inch difference in pickup height isn't relevant, they need to have their ears checked!

    Either way, I stand by my point that Four4Four shouldn't be going by everything he sees on Music Man's website. After all, they haven't explained why my pickup cavity and neck are different, have they?? [img]graemlins/irked.gif[/img]

    I mean, forget about the blingin' neck for a minute, and think about how radically different my two guitars sound. I thought I was going to have to buy a new pickup. Maybe instead I'll just find a way to put some risers or something in between the wood and the pickup. I don't give a rip if the pickup isn't literally TOUCHING the wood, so long as it's screwed in, and has identical height to my Axis Standard.

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    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
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    Well, What can I say? You have admitted you are wrong about your major arguments...but you are still not able to admit the obvieus. The fact that one Pickup cavity is 1/8" higher is hardly something to base your whole argument on.
    The fact is the email from Joe at EB/MM clears it up completely. The fact that you suggest that I am silly for believing him speaks to your lack of commonsense. In order for EB to LIE about the axis, they would need a reasonably compelling reason to do so and there is simply no reasonable reason to lie about something as silly as the specs of a guitar.. What on earth would possibly motivate Ernie Ball to lie about the specs of thier on guitars? It's laughable,It's just complete nonsense.

    BTW, People keep suggesting that a try both guitars before I decide.... READ MY POSTS.. I've owned both versions of the axis I don't need to try them.
    No disrespect to anyone but for anyone with a even a little sense, this case is CLOSED.

    [ July 01, 2002, 09:25 AM: Message edited by: four4for ]

  7. #7
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    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
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    I always find it rather humorous that EVH and Hendrix fans would get themselves all worked up over 1/8", whether "the necks are EXACTLY the same", whether the pickup pole pieces line up DIRECTLY with the strings, or measuring the string spacing on a Floyd Rose to the exact 100th of a mm. Sure these things are all important to a certain extent but I can't picture a drunk 23 year old EVH in 1978 nitpicking over stuff like this. Sure guitar tone is a science but in the same token, you don't need to be an electrician, braniac with a TI-82, or a luthier to make a guitar sound good. If you guys own an EBMM or the EB Axis I guess I can see some of your concern but then again, I'm kind of lost as to where this post/argument is going. What exactly are you guys trying to prove about these two instruments?

  8. #8
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    12.11.17 @ 07:17 PM
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    Uh, no, I'm not wrong about my major arguments. You may want to consider re-reading them, or perhaps take some reading classes.

    I said that the pickups were different and that the neck was different.

    The pickups are the same, but sound COMPLETELY different because of the different bridges used and pickup cavity. Again, a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT TONE!!! Go to the review boards on Harmony-Central.com, and see the others who agree with me!!! Advantage: MAJESTIC [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img]

    I said the two necks weren't the same, and as if my hands (and everyone else's on this board) weren't enough, dental floss proves it.
    Advantage: MAJESTIC [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img]

    Look bud, we're both Van Halen fans....that's why we're here. You have the right to be wrong. That's ok. You may have "played" both guitars, but I **OWN** both, as we sit and breath. You're wrong. End of Story.

  9. #9
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    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
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    Ok, well, this leaves only one question:

    Does your pissing distance still count if your toe slips over the line?

    I mean jesus, guys, c'mon. How about a little more respect for each other as fellow Ed-heads and a little less "I'M RIGHT YOU'RE WRONG RAHHHHH", huh?

    ratter.

  10. #10
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    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
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    Originally posted by ratter:


    I mean jesus, guys, c'mon. How about a little more respect for each other as fellow Ed-heads and a little less "I'M RIGHT YOU'RE WRONG RAHHHHH", huh?

    ratter.
    There is nothing wrong with what we are doing, It is a healthy debate.. Well, at least my end of it is, I have not insulted anyone. The fact is there is a right and a wrong and it is clear that in this case I am right and the other guy is wrong. I'm not going to pretend to be ignorant just to get along, I'm not going to agree with someone who posts complete crap just to get along. I have nothing against Majestic... The fact that he does'nt know any better is his problem not mine. Nothing wrong with being right ya know.
    and by the way did Majastic even bother reading my posts?.. The ones where I make it clear that I have owned BOTH the axis and the axis sport.. I mean he keeps talking in circles telling me he "knows" because he owns both.. well wake up Cindy I used to own both.. read my fucking posts you big dummy (Ok, Now I've insulted someone). Oh and BTW, The guys at Ernie Ball are getting a kick out of majastic and tribb(nothing personal buddy) as well.
    Here is the latest email I recieved where Joe is commenting on the posts of Majestic and tribbs.
    ........

    Subj: Re: Axis update
    Date: 7/1/02 2:09:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time
    From: joel@ernieball.com


    Sounds like the whole world struggles with the classic "conspiracy theory". We get the exact same pickups from DiMarzio, so if they do sound different, there must be a problem in the pickup or in the subjective ear of the listener. I've talked to everyone here, and the common consensus is the same regarding all the changes.

    Best Regards,

    Joel Limpic
    Ernie Ball, Inc.

    [ July 01, 2002, 12:52 PM: Message edited by: four4for ]

  11. #11
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    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
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    Originally posted by ratter:
    Ok, well, this leaves only one question:

    Does your pissing distance still count if your toe slips over the line?

    I mean jesus, guys, c'mon. How about a little more respect for each other as fellow Ed-heads and a little less "I'M RIGHT YOU'RE WRONG RAHHHHH", huh?

    ratter.
    You gotta admit though, these guys can't hold a candle to Carl and John OU!!

  12. #12
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    03.30.13 @ 09:28 AM
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    Here is the latest email I recieved where Joe is commenting on the posts of Majestic and tribbs.
    I think it's funny that they're getting a kick out our emails four4for. The guys at EBMM are really good guys, and I have no problem with that, but you're getting more than a bit anal here aren't you.

  13. #13
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    12.11.17 @ 07:17 PM
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    I'll even amend my argument, and state that I have no idea how all or even most of all EBMMs play. How could I??

    From here on out, I will NOT be arrogant enough to state that I do, because I DON'T. Agreed.

    I refuse, however, to "lie" about my guitars. [img]graemlins/irked.gif[/img]

    The fact remains, the necks on **MY** Axis Standard and Axis Super Sport are differently shaped & sized. Period. It is ridiculous for ANYONE, including anybody at Ernie Ball (whom I've also spoke with many times) to say otherwise. **MY TWO GUITAR NECKS ARE NOT THE SAME SHAPE OR SIZE**

    Additionally, **MY** Axis Super Sport didn't sound ANYTHING LIKE my Axis when I brought it home. Through testing, and measuring, I've realized that indeed the pickups are identical, but that there is a DRASTIC DIFFERENCE in the space between the pickup and the strings on MY 2 GUITARS. It's more than an 1/8th of an inch....that is only the difference in the depth of the pickup cavity. The bridge came with the strings WAAAY far away from the pickups.

    The Action was still good, but the strings were probably 1/3rd of an inch farther away from the Pickup than it was on my Axis. I re-adjusted the saddles, cranking them WAAAY down, and tweaked the neck. Now the difference is only about 1/8th of an inch between the 2 guitars, but it still makes a huge difference in tone.

    Again, NOBODY IN THEIR RIGHT MIND CAN TELL ME DIFFERENTLY!!! I'm talking about MY guitars, not Four4Fours, not Eddie's, and not the one Hartley Peavey secretly plays when he's at home with his Wolfgang-making Androids & StormTroopers.

    OK, Four4Four? No offense. No harsh words. No arrogance on my part.

    There......finished!!

    Now, on to something more constructive.

    Rol, Tribb, anybody....where I could I find or create a "spacer" that I could fit between the pickup and the inside of the guitar that would raise the humbucker, but not so far so that the screw wouldn't fit in??? I'm thinking about cutting out an appropriately sized slab of plastic, laying it in there, and then screwing the pickup back in (being careful of the wires, of course)

    Also, since the bridge I have (which is the Music Man version, with locking tuners, not the Floyd version) is obviously wreaking havoc on the guitar's tone (via poor string alignment and height), what alternatives should I consider?

    I'd like to keep the bridge, actually. Can I just order some different saddles, or something?

    Because it's the width of the saddles that are forcing the strings out of alignment. I need slightly narrower saddles. I think. [img]graemlins/wtf.gif[/img]

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    03.30.13 @ 09:28 AM
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    I use a peice of medium density foam with good spring under my pickups, which allows me to raise and lower height.
    If you know exactly how high you want it to go in height you could always make a maple or some other hardwood shim made and use that. I know some guys use popsicle sticks, but that's really crappy wood. I found the foam good cause it doesn't affect tone or sustain. You want a fairly thick peice so it's always exerting pressure, but cut it so it sits right between the two posts.
    As far as the MM trem, maybe contacting music man would help. They might be able to recommend a narrower type of saddle.
    Do the saddles you have throw it that far out of alignment?
    Rols, you have any ideas?

  15. #15
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    01.22.09 @ 09:08 AM
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    Originally posted by Majestic:
    .

    Rol, Tribb, anybody....where I could I find or create a "spacer" that I could fit between the pickup and the inside of the guitar that would raise the humbucker, but not so far so that the screw wouldn't fit in??? I'm thinking about cutting out an appropriately sized slab of plastic, laying it in there, and then screwing the pickup back in (being careful of the wires, of course)

    Also, since the bridge I have (which is the Music Man version, with locking tuners, not the Floyd version) is obviously wreaking havoc on the guitar's tone (via poor string alignment and height), what alternatives should I consider?

    I'd like to keep the bridge, actually. Can I just order some different saddles, or something?

    Because it's the width of the saddles that are forcing the strings out of alignment. I need slightly narrower saddles. I think. [img]graemlins/wtf.gif[/img]
    I'm at a loss as for the Trem, Shaller makes a thick based floyd that might help with your tone but that opens up another can of worms for your action since the thick based trem sits higher
    therefore the only adjustment that can be made is to shim your neck up giving it more height and angle to bring your action back down, shimming is a way of life in guitar building but a lot of people frown on it, everyone does it though including Peavey, Erine Ball (yes the EVHMM), Jackson, ESP etc etc so that part is up to you.

    I can suggest help with the pickup height, I would use a piece of basswood, you can get it at craft stores, they come just a bit larger than your pickup cavity, I have a benchtop disk\belt sander so I can sand it to shape and thickness but it can be cut to shape and sanded to thickness by hand with sandpaper on a flat surface if you don't have a sander.
    What you would basically be doing is making a new floor for the pickup so you can use the same screws to mount it right back in, you can fasten the new floor with screws under and between the pickup ears or you can glue it in.
    hope this helps
    Rol.

 

 

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