I just saw van halen at madison square garden last week and i thought they were good (not great). But i cant help but think Dave misses mike's presence maybe more than he thought or even would care to admit. Ed's kid can play fine but as everyone knows he has Zero stage presence and he gives dave nothing to work off of. Mike did. watch some old clips and dave hangs on Mike more than he interacts with Ed. Dave looked a little lost to me on stage last week at times, like he was looking for someone besides Ed to "play" with. and all he had was Ed's kid.

I dunno, just thought i'd throw that out there.

I think you are on to something here. If Mike and Dave were on stage together they would be sharing a drink/bottle bringing more of a party atmosphere like the old days. Dave can't do that with Ed cus it would turn in to '04 again.

You can't force chemistry. With old VH it was there out of pure fun and hunger. With this version there is more of a walk on eggshells or Ed will fire me....even if I think his kid should'nt be here, and I know the fans won't appreciate a half-assed reunion. This is more or less what Dave must be thinking. Too bad that Ed is not thinking about the fans...or Mike.

It's pretty obvious to me there is no chemistry whatsoever between Dave and the kid. Why would there be?

Mike and Dave, like Ed & Dave or Al & Dave have a history together.

Dave's singing has been stellar on this tour from the clips I've see, however Mike's harmony vocals would have taken the overall vocal sound to a greater level.

Mike is missed that's for sure...

Hogwash! While we all like MA, Wolf is doing just fine on this tour. I would even say he's a better bass player, yet, while his vocals are spot on, there is something a miss not having Mike there. But we can't have our cake and eat it too. This is Van Halen, like it or not. Love it or leave it.

Hogwash! While we all like MA, Wolf is doing just fine on this tour. I would even say he's a better bass player, yet, while his vocals are spot on, there is something a miss not having Mike there. But we can't have our cake and eat it too. This is Van Halen, like it or not. Love it or leave it.
Funny stuff, Wolfie is nowhere near as good a bass player as Michael Anthony.

Hogwash! While we all like MA, Wolf is doing just fine on this tour. I would even say he's a better bass player, yet, while his vocals are spot on, there is something a miss not having Mike there. But we can't have our cake and eat it too. This is Van Halen, like it or not. Love it or leave it.

better bass player? I hope you were drunk when you typed this...otherwise you have no excuse for making such an asinine statment

go to a show fellas. Wolf plays the bass parts better than you would think. That's all. Doesn't have the showmanship of MA but does better playing the parts.

and don't get me wrong...I am a big MA fan. Wolf is killing it live.

and don't get me wrong...I am a big MA fan. Wolf is killing it live.
Dude, I'm not suggesting the kid can't play, however he's not in the same league as Michael Anthony. Not even close.

True...Michael Anthony is a bonafide rocker with his history and all....I'm just talking about the live show....The times I saw VH live, I didn't realize he wasn't there because it sounded so good.

I guess to clarify....I was focused on Dave and Ed.

With Alex pounding it out in the background.....Great shows! Go see it!

With Alex pounding it out in the background.....Great shows! Go see it!
The 2007 shows aren't for me, Wolfie should be in his own band, not Van Halen. That's my opinion, I don't expect everyone to agree with me.

I'm sure Wolfie is doing a fair job, but for me it just doesn't work no matter how well he plays.

The only people who could SERIOUSLY make the claim that Wolf is better than Mike are the ones going to BOTH the VH show and the Mad Anthony Express and comparing their playing on the songs they both play, i.e. Little Dreamer or ATBL and liking Wolf's playing better.

Hogwash! While we all like MA, Wolf is doing just fine on this tour. I would even say he's a better bass player, yet, while his vocals are spot on, there is something a miss not having Mike there. But we can't have our cake and eat it too. This is Van Halen, like it or not. Love it or leave it.


It would help if it was really Wolf singing them (see the LA review thread).

Wolfgang cannot sing like Mike. He'll never come close to singing as well, and currently he is not as good a bass player, maybe someday, but not even close right now. Anyways, the point of this thread has always held true because Dave has never been a good singer. Wolfgang, quite frankly, brings nothing to the table. He's filling a void as best as he can but he is of no help to Dave. Half of what I've heard are crappy background vocals. this tour is selling for nostalgic reasons, i.e. cause Dave yearned to be relevant and Eddie wants to play with his kid. It's not selling because they sound that damn good, sure they're good, but we all know that 3/4 of those going just want to see Ed & Dave together.

I'm really not trying to bash the kid, just giving my opinions. To me, this carnation will never truly be Van Halen, that background vocal was essential. Again, this is Ed's fault, not Wolf's,

I was totally against the "Wolfgang thing" from the begining. I thought Mike was the only one for the job. But during both shows in N.Y...... I wasn't even thinking about Mike. The "New Band" worked well for me. Sorry Mike.... I still think your the MAN!!!!!

The only time the band looked odd to me was in 98. I was having trouble with the interaction between Gary and Mike. Mike (to me) looked like he missed Sammy. Mike and Sammy together look like to kids having a blast.

No offense to all of the Mikey fans out there, I include myself as one, but you got to hand it to Wolfie, I saw him play and he pretty damn good, I think he maybe a better technical player than Mike.

You can't force chemistry. With old VH it was there out of pure fun and hunger. With this version there is more of a walk on eggshells or Ed will fire me....even if I think his kid should'nt be here, and I know the fans won't appreciate a half-assed reunion. This is more or less what Dave must be thinking. Too bad that Ed is not thinking about the fans...or Mike.

You're projecting your own feelings into the minds of these people..there's no reason to believe Dave has that outlook...

No offense to all of the Mikey fans out there, I include myself as one, but you got to hand it to Wolfie, I saw him play and he pretty damn good, I think he maybe a better technical player than Mike.

I think he maybe not. Just ....maybe. He just o.k.. He gettum better may be. But, he not quite there.

Mike brought alot to the band and at times i miss seeing him bounce around the stage,but Wolfs in the band now and some people need to get over it.I doubt if Dave is walking on eggshells, you guys just nit pick this tour to death.Its funny on a VH forum there is so much negativity about this tour its just crazy.You even have a member thats been here for along time and he wishes the tour would end so people would leave this forum wich is nuts.I was so glad when i heard they where going on tour so i signed up to join the celebration and just walk away disgusted after i read some of these threads.

You even have a member thats been here for along time and he wishes the tour would end so people would leave this forum wich is nuts.

I'm trying to member who that was?
Oh yeah! It's the oldest member. Shriveled up, E.T. looking old member. :p

Dave does need Mike. He has relyed on him in the past and needs him now. If anything to help him remember the words to songs. How many more times is he going to screw up the words to "I'll Wait" and "Pretty Woman"?

Does he need a TelePrompter or what?

...You even have a member thats been here for along time and he wishes the tour would end so people would leave this forum wich is nuts.

Member? Brett's the owner.


http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/3352/ooooooooooooooooooooooovg9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

With Alex pounding it out in the background.....Great shows! Go see it!

You want to watch Alex jack off?:wtf:

VAN HALEN needs Mike

saw them last night here in LA. Wolf is capable, far better than i expected, but is no where near Mike in any way. those who think so obviously have never seen the original band before. the show would have had a much more energetic feel with Mike there, not to mention a better bass sound and yes, Dave would be much happier with his energy to work off. he is pretty much on his own now. Ed is not moving around at all, a lot of which is due to having the cord which looks amateurish its so rediculous, and Wolf brings nothing to the band show wise.

[QUOTE=chefcraig;903270]Member? Brett's the owner.


So the owner wants the tour to end. Did I miss something?

I want it to end so the shitheads leave this site. Yes!

It's not about VH, it's about people who never gave a shit about this site making it miserable for long-time users.

I want them the fuck gone. Whatever that's going to take. I would assume the end of the tour would get rid of some of them.

[QUOTE=chefcraig;903270]Member? Brett's the owner.


So the owner wants the tour to end. Did I miss something?

Yup. I believe you may have missed some of the general frustration the fellow must feel, needing to be responsible for constantly putting out fires in threads.

You realistically can not believe the guy that founded a VH site out of his own meager pockets somehow wishes the tour would end today, simply so some relatively inane posters would go away by proxy, do you?

Terrific, we have some strongly held convictions regarding what it means to be a VH fan circa 2007, offered by "so-called" fans who bothered to register at this site a few months ago. We have posters whining that the crowds are not jubilant enough, so wrapped up in the arrogance of their youth that they have yet to realize that everyone fails to put some zip on their fastball twenty years removed. This applies to band as well as audience, yet if this point is mentioned, mere criticism of Ed Van Halen's guitar technique is near blasphemy.

Look, nobody wants to believe that their heroes have faults. If they possess them, it speaks equally of the faults that lie inside us all. Yet the point is, we all get older. The aforementioned "zip on the fastball" fades.

Yet for crying out loud, those of us that were around when say Ken Stabler, Joe Kapp, Ali, or Richard Pryor were around in their prime do not:

A. Jump up and down in hero worship of their mere presence (particularly if paying for the privilege)
AND
B. Pretend that they are as mighty as they once were.

What is even weirder, folk that never even witnessed the original incarnation of this outfit feel they have the right to piss all over folk that have with some bizarre form of self righteous indignation.

Fuck it. It's a version of "The Emperor's New Clothes". The difference being (for one) nobody seems to get the literary reference, let alone the significance.

No offense to all of the Mikey fans out there, I include myself as one, but you got to hand it to Wolfie, I saw him play and he pretty damn good, I think he maybe a better technical player than Mike.
???

I simply can't understand how people could think that...

Puzzling, just puzzling... :wtf:

From a personal perspective (and a view Brett may share) is that this site is no different for me than it was in 2003,2005,2006, when VH wasn't doing anything. There's some people who just don't get our loyalty to Mike, and some who don't care. I don't give a shit if this tour goes on or not, the only reason I'd ever wish it to fail is to put Ed in his place, but I don't wish it to end because too many people are enjoying it. This tour marked the end of VH's career for me, and if I want to see VH material i'll go see Sam and Mike. Other than that, there's more books than ever being published about this band, there's bootleg trading, etc. So for me, the history of Van Halen coupled with this site keep me satisfied with what I now consider a defunct band.

I've always said that it's great that the guys are doing something again after so many years of nothing. I just wish they had gotten it right so we could all enjoy it.

It will be nice whenst the tour winds down tho. At least around here.

???

I simply can't understand how people could think that...

Puzzling, just puzzling... :wtf:

That's why I have so lost faith in some of the VH fans on this board. So much stupidity and ridiculously hyperbolic euphoria over this thing. It's like everyone has to validate themselves every second about the money they spent on this thing, by making outlandishly DUMB comments.

Now Wolfie is a better bass player than Mike. :rolleyes: OH BROTHER get a clue.

I swear some of you wouldn't know a bass guitar from a banjo.

And it's this type of shit that is ruining the site IMO. And it has nothing to do with my position on the tour. It's the bizarre hero worship.

[QUOTE=51501984;903482]

Yup. I believe you may have missed some of the general frustration the fellow must feel, needing to be responsible for constantly putting out fires in threads.

You realistically can not believe the guy that founded a VH site out of his own meager pockets somehow wishes the tour would end today, simply so some relatively inane posters would go away by proxy, do you?

Terrific, we have some strongly held convictions regarding what it means to be a VH fan circa 2007, offered by "so-called" fans who bothered to register at this site a few months ago. We have posters whining that the crowds are not jubilant enough, so wrapped up in the arrogance of their youth that they have yet to realize that everyone fails to put some zip on their fastball twenty years removed. This applies to band as well as audience, yet if this point is mentioned, mere criticism of Ed Van Halen's guitar technique is near blasphemy.

Look, nobody wants to believe that their heroes have faults. If they possess them, it speaks equally of the faults that lie inside us all. Yet the point is, we all get older. The aforementioned "zip on the fastball" fades.

Yet for crying out loud, those of us that were around when say Ken Stabler, Joe Kapp, Ali, or Richard Pryor were around in their prime do not:

A. Jump up and down in hero worship of their mere presence (particularly if paying for the privilege)
AND
B. Pretend that they are as mighty as they once were.

What is even weirder, folk that never even witnessed the original incarnation of this outfit feel they have the right to piss all over folk that have with some bizarre form of self righteous indignation.

Fuck it. It's a version of "The Emperor's New Clothes". The difference being (for one) nobody seems to get the literary reference, let alone the significance.


well said...when i was younger and, as i do know, would hit up shows on the oldie goldie circuit to see guys like the Guess Who or the Platters or whatever and then come home and pop in Van Halen or something like that, I was wondered what it would be like 20-30 years down the line...bands like the Platters sing music that lends itself well to the aging process...if that makes sense...Twilight Time doesn't have to be sung by a 20 year old to work....whereas a LOT of the music VH and their contemporaries made does. That being said, and this is probably a topic for its own thread, who is struggling with the loss of said fastball's zip? VH or the fan? hmm...

nice emperor's new clothes reference...there's that gentleman AND scholar coming out in you again!

well my original point really was about performance. watching old clips of the band live it seemed to me Dave (at least pre-1984) played off Mike really well, worked off him, involved him in his performance. and by this i mean strictly the physical performance. it wasnt really about mike's singing being better, mike's playing being better, etc. which this topic has turned into. just strictly the dynamic between them. just from what i've seen live dave just doesn't seem like he'd be too comfortable by say putting his arm around wolf and having the 2 of them sing into a mic together like he'd do with Mike a lot.

like watch this clip for a perfect example of what i mean, it's "you really got me" circa 1979.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=esEUKTEgLKI

well my original point really was about performance. watching old clips of the band live it seemed to me Dave (at least pre-1984) played off Mike really well, worked off him, involved him in his performance. and by this i mean strictly the physical performance. it wasnt really about mike's singing being better, mike's playing being better, etc. which this topic has turned into. just strictly the dynamic between them. just from what i've seen live dave just doesn't seem like he'd be too comfortable by say putting his arm around wolf and having the 2 of them sing into a mic together like he'd do with Mike a lot.


Hey, we're back on topic! ;) I agree. I have watched three shows now - on DVD, not in-person (that's coming in Jan 08) - and there's an untintentional distance between Dave and Wolf. Dave and Mike always had great interaction; there was always a certain "gravity" they had with each other, despite how one felt about the other. It's missing here, but I've only watched shows, not actually attended a show yet.

Crap...I just ate a whole Ben & Jerry's Phish Food while reading this thread. That sucks. Well, it doesn't, but it does.

Early VH played hundreds of gigs at parties, bars/clubs for years. Of course Dave would be more comfortable with Mike.

The only people who could SERIOUSLY make the claim that Wolf is better than Mike are the ones going to BOTH the VH show and the Mad Anthony Express and comparing their playing on the songs they both play, i.e. Little Dreamer or ATBL and liking Wolf's playing better.

Its almost like all those who havent seen the kid play saying he cant, believe it or not the kid is as good as advertised and if I remember Mike doesnt like Dave.

Hey broken9500 can you fix post # 36 , the post you quoted with my username above it was not me done by me.

I saw VH on 10-14 in Indy, it was a good show. I saw them because I never got to see Ed and Dave together.

I saw Sam and Mike on 10-28 in Indy, and it was a good show.

I like every incarnation of this band. I don't obsess too much though, and I am objective. I understand it's going to be Wolf or nothing from now on and I will still go see them. I know it will never compare to the "golden age", nor would I ever expect it too (even if Mikey was there).

With that, Wolfie, as good as he is now; is NOT in Mike's league. I'm sorry, it's just not there. When Mikey opened with RWTD, it was so much more powerful, sans Ed even. Having seen Dave with Ed now, if I had to make a choice, I'd go so Sam and Mike. It was just better, more real. They are having fun.

And yes, I believe the show would be better with Mike, at least on the Dave side of it. For whatever BS excuse, I doubt it would be better for Ed. So, I agree with the initial post, Dave does need Mike up there; at least more than Mike needs him.

Hey broken9500 can you fix post # 36 , the post you quoted with my username above it was not me done by me.

I highly doubt folk will confuse the two of us, bro. :D :thumb:

Hey broken9500 can you fix post # 36 , the post you quoted with my username above it was not me done by me.

I highly doubt folk will confuse the two of us, bro. :D :thumb:

in case there is any confusion, post # 36 should have quoted chef...not sure why it didn't...let the speculation begin!!

hahaha...seriously...I have no idea why it did that...:thumb:

I don't know if Dave needs Mike on stage. Sure, it's 3 Van Halen's to just 1 Roth but things seem fine to me. Plus, it's been over 20 years since Dave last toured with Van Halen. Things are a lot different now for sure.

I think it's funny to think that Dave would need Mike NOW instead of the past 23 years he spent without him.

Dave and the guys are doing fine without him.

Vocally he could have used Mike's help the last 23 years...yes.

Until I see Wolf play something like Pleasure Dome, no he doesn't have the same skills as Mike.

That is some f'd up bassparts. The Classic 6 have simple bass lines.

I think it's funny to think that Dave would need Mike NOW instead of the past 23 years he spent without him.

Dave and the guys are doing fine without him.

Guess it's not just Dave that needs Mike, It's Van Halen as a whole and the fans!!!

It's just not right with the kid, I don't give a crap who says otherwise.

Sure they're doing good with Wolfgang, but all they've proven is that they can't replicate classic VH because this isn't classic VH. It's a cover band, just like the Other Half.

Its almost like all those who havent seen the kid play saying he cant, believe it or not the kid is as good as advertised and if I remember Mike doesnt like Dave.

Not even close to the advertised proclomation. Ed and Al hate dave too, remember?

It's not anti-Mike to love what's going on in VH these days. How can anyone be anti Mike anyway?

I wish Mike was in but Wolf is the catalyst that got ED motivated again. Wolf is playing and singing well too. Ed wants Mike out and Mike does not like Dave. At least he's said it in interviews countless times. Ed and Al have said that too but they have a new understanding/working relationship (appreciation/friendship?) etc with DLR. Mike doesn't.

You can all recount shit said in the past and look at this tour and say "no, they hate each other, it's all fake and for the money." That may be true or it could be fanboy sour grapes, who's to say? The bottom line is the shows are fantastic, the band sounds hot and the combo of Ed and Dave live on stage is powerful. The loss of Mike doesn't diminish it. It's unfortunate that the guys in this band have issues with each other. This isn't a strange cult(for me) or my family though. It's entertainment and VH is kicking ass without MA. Some fans might "need" him, and VH may be more pure and "classic" with MA but they have proven that they don't "need" Mike to kick total ass and be more VH than they have been in 23 years. I think if anything has been proven VH needs DLR and he's been sorely missed....even if a handful of people disagree with me here the over enthusiastic tour sales says it all.

Sure they're doing good with Wolfgang, but all they've proven is that they can't replicate classic VH because this isn't classic VH. It's a cover band, just like the Other Half.

i'm not following this...so does any band who swaps out members become a cover band where their older material is concerned?

but they have proven that they don't "need" Mike to kick total ass and be more VH than they have been in 23 years. I think if anything has been proven VH needs DLR and he's been sorely missed....even if a handful of people disagree with me here the over enthusiastic tour sales says it all.

What a load of crapola.

Van Halen did just fine without Dave, and were far more successful without him than he was without them. If anything has been proven it's that Dave would still be playing casinos without Ed and Al.

I swear some of you just live in your own delusional DLR world.

I wish Mike was in but Wolf is the catalyst that got ED motivated again. Wolf is playing and singing well too. Ed wants Mike out and Mike does not like Dave. At least he's said it in interviews countless times. Ed and Al have said that too but they have a new understanding/working relationship (appreciation/friendship?) etc with DLR. Mike doesn't.


Really you've talked to Mike? You know how he feels? Wow that's pretty amazing considering he's said he was disappointed he wasn't included. Boy he must really hate Dave. :rolleyes:

Ed and Al hated Dave for years and ripped him every chance they could. Where have you been? If you believe Ed's "new brother" BS then you are a total sap. He's Ed's "brother" this week so that Ed can get out there with his kid and jam to more than 500 people. As soon as Ed has had his fill with Dave, he'll be back playing the casinos and Ed can rip him every two seconds.

You'll believe any of the phony word barf that comes from Ed and Al because they're working with Dave. If they weren't, you wouldn't be so freaking jaded.

What a load of crapola.

Van Halen did just fine without Dave, and were far more successful without him than he was without them. If anything has been proven it's that Dave would still be playing casinos without Ed and Al.

I swear some of you just live in your own delusional DLR world.

Whatever, insult me again because you don't agree. That doesn't make my statement wrong or your biased opinion right. The tours success says it all.

Whatever, insult me again because you don't agree. That doesn't make my statement wrong or your biased opinion right. The tours success says it all.

My biased opinion is based on factual record sales and concert attendance disproving your BIASED comment that Van Halen needed Dave all these years.

Where is the insult? That I called you delusional? YOU ARE if you believe Van Halen wasn't successful without Dave. If I wanted to insult you I could just call you stupid. That make you feel better?

yeah I may only like two out of the four records they made with sammy, and I may not like sammy hagar outside of those two albums and a couple of songs off the other two, but jesus, they did pretty damn well and made some pretty damn fine music without Dave and all the while Dave was making a joke of himself and his place in rock history, which one tour with Ed and Al won't entirely erase. Yes the tour is succesful, yes I want to see it and if money allows it, I will, but to say DLR jamming with Ed, Al and Wolfie makes VH more VH than they have been in 23 years makes the list of absolutely retarded things I've heard on the links. I wish I were keeping track because in the past couple months I've seen some "humdingers" let me tell ya...I support Ed's perogative to manage his band however he wants and I reserve the right to like or not like what he does. I prefer Dave to Sammy but jesus, I'm really tired of these lunatic statements lately. Granted, I still wish they had made the second record with Gary and I'm sure that statement makes plenty of people retarded things said on the links lately list.

Yeah they did pretty good for themselves with Hagar, like it or not.

I kinda like that "word barf" tho. Nice. :D

Sure they're doing good with Wolfgang, but all they've proven is that they can't replicate classic VH because this isn't classic VH. It's a cover band, just like the Other Half.

Somehow I always get drawn back into these bitch sessions. How on earth is it a cover band?It`s one thing to wave the flag for Mike but now your just souding plain stupid.

Somehow I always get drawn back into these bitch sessions. How on earth is it a cover band?It`s one thing to wave the flag for Mike but now your just souding plain stupid.

Much like the idiots who ramble on how Van Halen wasn't successful without Dave. Personally I'd rather have someone wave the Mike flag than sit and make up stupid scenarios where VH wasn't successful with Sam.

Much like the idiots who ramble on how Van Halen wasn't successful without Dave. Personally I'd rather have someone wave the Mike flag than sit and make up stupid scenarios where VH wasn't successful with Sam.

And who ever said VH was was not successful with Sam has really got there head up there ass. And that`s coming from a CVH diehard. I guess everyone is different , I`ve seen all three lineups and soon to see the fourth and had a blast everytime and I seem to think everyone else should to. I guess I`m as crazy as the rest of ya:D

HAHA word. :)

Where is the insult? That I called you delusional? YOU ARE if you believe Van Halen wasn't successful without Dave. If I wanted to insult you I could just call you stupid. That make you feel better?

I didn't say they weren't successful with Hagar. They do seem to draw more attention with Dave though and the tour sales show how even without Mike and Sam a lot of people want to see VH with DLR. More than they wanted to see them with MA and Sam in 04. Isn't 07 doing better than 04? Why is that? Bad word of mouth about Ed's drinking in 04 or maybe just less interest though 04 had more marketing stuff going on than this tour?

I'm not trying to debate and harsh on any era of VH but in response to this thread and the things said in it...imo Dave and VH is getting a long fine without him. That's not opinion and It doesn't mean I don't prefer MA. The tour sales and interest proves it VH and Dave don't "need" MA to carry on. They are doing well and MA isn't the bass player fyi. Just because they haven't done right by you doesn't mean I'm making this shit up.

Van Halen has always had interest in their live shows, even with Cherone. People went, and the shows were actually really good. The Ed back then blows this Ed away, yet people go on and on and about how Ed is playing better than he has in 20 years. Just hyperbolic, over zealous, moronic comments. I've tired of reading them.

And yes you did allude to the fact that people don't care about VH unless Dave is involved, which is a load of BS. You're back peddling now on that statement, but it was pretty clear to me what you meant.

Van Halen has always had interest in their live shows, even with Cherone. People went, and the shows were actually really good. The Ed back then blows this Ed away, yet people go on and on and about how Ed is playing better than he has in 20 years. Just hyperbolic, over zealous, moronic comments. I've tired of reading them.

And yes you did allude to the fact that people don't care about VH unless Dave is involved, which is a load of BS. You're back peddling now on that statement, but it was pretty clear to me what you meant.



I'm not back peddling and thats not what I said either. Of course people care about VH, even with Gary in but it seems like people care a whole lot more when the original line up of DLR and EVH are united. That era seems to stand out most to the general public it seems anyway. That's like another issue though ...and yes it's just my opinion but ..my main point is... though it's sad Mike is out they don't need him to carry on. Dave's voice sounds good and he doesn't need MA to carry him as this threads title suggests. The tour is doing well and they are adding more and more shows cause there's great demand.

The original lineup isn't united, but whatever.

Nope they don't need Mike to carry on, they didn't need Dave either. Hell they didn't need Sam for that matter.

Dave certainly could use Mike's voice to play off of for sure. Yeah Dave sounds good because he's actually singing the songs, but the power in his voice isn't what it was, it's not even close. It sounds very good for a 53-year old man, and about as good as Dave is ever going to do it.

The original lineup isn't united, but whatever.

Nope they don't need Mike to carry on, they didn't need Dave either. Hell they didn't need Sam for that matter.

Dave certainly could use Mike's voice to play off of for sure. Yeah Dave sounds good because he's actually singing the songs, but the power in his voice isn't what it was, it's not even close. It sounds very good for a 53-year old man, and about as good as Dave is ever going to do it.

you know, i still don't understand why ed and al havent struck out on their own to perform guitar/drum original music...you know with guys like Terry Bozio touring as a solo drummer, there would certainly be interest in an Evening with Edward and Alex Van Halen...what these guys have done with the later stage of their career continues to amaze and dissapoint...

Uh, maybe because such a project would lack "$."
I bet you the size of AVH's mansion is in another league compared to where Bozzio lives, even if he's well payed for session work. For those brothers to get out the door, there needs to be some serious dineros involved.

I agree with Dreamer, money is holding them back from a "solo" project.

Just some observations and comments after reading this...

There's an obvious rift within the age groups and the perception of what CVH was and what's being served up today as VH. Most under the age of 35 don't have a reference point of experiencing CVH live in it's original form. Doesn't invalidate opinions... but it's aparent they miss the CVH boat.

Claiming Wolfgang Van Halen is a better bass player than Michael Anthony... I'm sorry to offend... but that's the most assine thing I've seen posted on several VH fan sites since this thing started.

There are specific time-signatures, sequences, full runs, half notes and you name it being missed in almost every song Wolfie is playing. Sure he's hitting most of the root notes and some of the vibe... but it ain't even close yet.

Dave's singing style calls for a very unique time-signature within the melodies. It's part of what made CVH special. From the beginning of the tour even Ed and Al were struggling with the timings, but are now starting to hit the old groove the last several weeks. Wolfie does not have much of that down yet at all. Listen to every one of Ed's solo spots... the kid is not carrying the song. Alex is. There's a huge gapping hole in the music where Mike used to be.

James Lomenzo played bass in DLR band in the late 90's and early 00's... he also played/plays for White Lion, Pride & Glory, Slash's Snakepit, Black Label Society, Ozzy Osbourne, & currently Megadeth. He was quoted as being amazed at how difficult it was to play Michael's material when joining DLR Band and he's a 25 year veteran player.

Wolfie may reach the level of playing ability Mike has in about 25 years... doubtful, though... until then it's an uphill journey and he has a lot to learn along the way.

when you guys say "money" are you saying it's a matter of greed on their part or a matter of having to make a certain amount on each tour in order to cover their lavish lifestyles? which I guess are very similar...but the first option assumes that they have more than enough money to live the rest of their lives at their current lifestyle without ever working again while the the later assumes they still need to be active...

They need the money to be active and to maintain their current lifestyles.

Royalty payments for year probably isn't enough to even pay property taxes on their homes. It's not like VH is selling millions of CD's these days.

I seriously doubt any of these guys mow their own lawn and change the oil in their cars out in the driveway on a sheet of cardboard. Even hiring illegal Julios in SoCal ain't cheap these days...

Money isn't holding them up from solo projects... they'd have to interact with other humans to do this and come out of their caves.

Just some observations and comments after reading this...

There's an obvious rift within the age groups and the perception of what CVH was and what's being served up today as VH. Most under the age of 35 don't have a reference point of experiencing CVH live in it's original form. Doesn't invalidate opinions... but it's aparent they miss the CVH boat.

Claiming Wolfgang Van Halen is a better bass player than Michael Anthony... I'm sorry to offend... but that's the most assine thing I've seen posted on several VH fan sites since this thing started.

There are specific time-signatures, sequences, full runs, half notes and you name it being missed in almost every song Wolfie is playing. Sure he's hitting most of the root notes and some of the vibe... but it ain't even close yet.

Dave's singing style calls for a very unique time-signature within the melodies. It's part of what made CVH special. From the beginning of the tour even Ed and Al were struggling with the timings, but are now starting to hit the old groove the last several weeks. Wolfie does not have much of that down yet at all. Listen to every one of Ed's solo spots... the kid is not carrying the song. Alex is. There's a huge gapping hole in the music where Mike used to be.

James Lomenzo played bass in DLR band in the late 90's and early 00's... he also played/plays for White Lion, Pride & Glory, Slash's Snakepit, Black Label Society, Ozzy Osbourne, & currently Megadeth. He was quoted as being amazed at how difficult it was to play Michael's material when joining DLR Band and he's a 25 year veteran player.

Wolfie may reach the level of playing ability Mike has in about 25 years... doubtful, though... until then it's an uphill journey and he has a lot to learn along the way.


Amen ZZ.

Just some observations and comments after reading this...

There's an obvious rift within the age groups and the perception of what CVH was and what's being served up today as VH. Most under the age of 35 don't have a reference point of experiencing CVH live in it's original form. Doesn't invalidate opinions... but it's aparent they miss the CVH boat.

Claiming Wolfgang Van Halen is a better bass player than Michael Anthony... I'm sorry to offend... but that's the most assine thing I've seen posted on several VH fan sites since this thing started.

There are specific time-signatures, sequences, full runs, half notes and you name it being missed in almost every song Wolfie is playing. Sure he's hitting most of the root notes and some of the vibe... but it ain't even close yet.

Dave's singing style calls for a very unique time-signature within the melodies. It's part of what made CVH special. From the beginning of the tour even Ed and Al were struggling with the timings, but are now starting to hit the old groove the last several weeks. Wolfie does not have much of that down yet at all. Listen to every one of Ed's solo spots... the kid is not carrying the song. Alex is. There's a huge gapping hole in the music where Mike used to be.

James Lomenzo played bass in DLR band in the late 90's and early 00's... he also played/plays for White Lion, Pride & Glory, Slash's Snakepit, Black Label Society, Ozzy Osbourne, & currently Megadeth. He was quoted as being amazed at how difficult it was to play Michael's material when joining DLR Band and he's a 25 year veteran player.

Wolfie may reach the level of playing ability Mike has in about 25 years... doubtful, though... until then it's an uphill journey and he has a lot to learn along the way.

very well put...again, I think i've always been real clear on the fact that I'm ok with the idea of Wolfgang being in Van Halen as well as with how I feel about Mike's contributions to the group. However, it is indeed sheer lunacy to suggest that somehow Wolfgang is doing better than Mike...he's doing an adequate job playing the bass...no more no less. Do I hope he improves and they record new music and they do well and all that jazz? Absolutely! Do I think Wolfgang has been a flop...far from it. He is doing a pretty good job...a damn good job considering his age and the context of the situation...as a new band we can debate it, but as a review of classic VH, I think Mike is certainly missed.

Just some observations and comments after reading this...

There's an obvious rift within the age groups and the perception of what CVH was and what's being served up today as VH. Most under the age of 35 don't have a reference point of experiencing CVH live in it's original form. Doesn't invalidate opinions... but it's aparent they miss the CVH boat.

Claiming Wolfgang Van Halen is a better bass player than Michael Anthony... I'm sorry to offend... but that's the most assine thing I've seen posted on several VH fan sites since this thing started.

There are specific time-signatures, sequences, full runs, half notes and you name it being missed in almost every song Wolfie is playing. Sure he's hitting most of the root notes and some of the vibe... but it ain't even close yet.

Dave's singing style calls for a very unique time-signature within the melodies. It's part of what made CVH special. From the beginning of the tour even Ed and Al were struggling with the timings, but are now starting to hit the old groove the last several weeks. Wolfie does not have much of that down yet at all. Listen to every one of Ed's solo spots... the kid is not carrying the song. Alex is. There's a huge gapping hole in the music where Mike used to be.

James Lomenzo played bass in DLR band in the late 90's and early 00's... he also played/plays for White Lion, Pride & Glory, Slash's Snakepit, Black Label Society, Ozzy Osbourne, & currently Megadeth. He was quoted as being amazed at how difficult it was to play Michael's material when joining DLR Band and he's a 25 year veteran player.

Wolfie may reach the level of playing ability Mike has in about 25 years... doubtful, though... until then it's an uphill journey and he has a lot to learn along the way.

Another well thought out post. Good job ZZ. :thumb:

Just some observations and comments after reading this...

There's an obvious rift within the age groups and the perception of what CVH was and what's being served up today as VH. Most under the age of 35 don't have a reference point of experiencing CVH live in it's original form. Doesn't invalidate opinions... but it's aparent they miss the CVH boat.

Claiming Wolfgang Van Halen is a better bass player than Michael Anthony... I'm sorry to offend... but that's the most assine thing I've seen posted on several VH fan sites since this thing started.

There are specific time-signatures, sequences, full runs, half notes and you name it being missed in almost every song Wolfie is playing. Sure he's hitting most of the root notes and some of the vibe... but it ain't even close yet.

Dave's singing style calls for a very unique time-signature within the melodies. It's part of what made CVH special. From the beginning of the tour even Ed and Al were struggling with the timings, but are now starting to hit the old groove the last several weeks. Wolfie does not have much of that down yet at all. Listen to every one of Ed's solo spots... the kid is not carrying the song. Alex is. There's a huge gapping hole in the music where Mike used to be.

James Lomenzo played bass in DLR band in the late 90's and early 00's... he also played/plays for White Lion, Pride & Glory, Slash's Snakepit, Black Label Society, Ozzy Osbourne, & currently Megadeth. He was quoted as being amazed at how difficult it was to play Michael's material when joining DLR Band and he's a 25 year veteran player.

Wolfie may reach the level of playing ability Mike has in about 25 years... doubtful, though... until then it's an uphill journey and he has a lot to learn along the way.

You have been officially banned from the VH Links for writing a post that was articulate, non inflammatory, and showed that you have musical knowledge beyond the fact that it is "Catch as Catch" instead of "Etch a Sketch" in Little Guitars.

Wait it's not Etch A Sketch? What the hell?!??!?!

Do I think Wolfgang has been a flop...far from it. He is doing a pretty good job...a damn good job considering his age and the context of the situation...as a new band we can debate it, but as a review of classic VH, I think Mike is certainly missed.

Thanks guys...

Well it ain't CVH so... debate-mode = on!!

IMO... the reason Wolfie doesn't appear to be a flop is the fact that he's being carried and supported by three veteran, 35+ year pros and all the best musical technology available for a live gig. Anybody with his playing ability/experience would look/sound decent up there.

He's staying out of the way and you'll notice center stage and stage left are brightly lit, while stage right hardly exists in the show, unless an AARP member ventures over there. Wolfie is also pretty far back in the mix coming out of the mains behind Alex's drums.

Nothin against the kid... he's living a 1 in a trillion dream for a teenager. But from a purely objective musical perspective he shouldn't be there... at least not on his musicianship merits/contributions.

We'll probably never hear it... but I'd venture a pretty dang good guess that if we got our hands on a raw sound-board recording from a show, minus the prerecorded backing vocals, keyboard stuff and any other backing tracks/crap being piped in... it may not be as bad as some of the Linda McCartney crap that surfaced... but not far from it. Definately would induce some severe cringing and WTF expressions. :wtf:

Oh and... bastards!! Who stole my Etch-A-Sketch?

Very well said Zahzoo. The ignorant comments claiming the Wolfgang is an adequate replacement are ridiculous because there is no adequacy with classic VH unless all four members are there. Old bootlegs compared to these current tour bootlegs make it obvious for even the most novice fan that 3/4 is truly not good enough and is nothing more than an above average cover band.

Very well said Zahzoo. The ignorant comments claiming the Wolfgang is an adequate replacement are ridiculous because there is no adequacy with classic VH unless all four members are there. Old bootlegs compared to these current tour bootlegs make it obvious for even the most novice fan that 3/4 is truly not good enough and is nothing more than an above average cover band.

i don't think many have said that Wolfie is an adequate replacement. But given the cuircumstances the kid has done more than an admirable job. Before the tour we had people on here predicting that he be booed off the stage. The kid has held done his end of the bargain. I still think Mike should be there but the kid has more than exceeded anyone's wildest expectations.

Don't try comparing old bootlegs to this tour, that's unfair to all of them. If Mike was on this tour it wouldn't sound like 1984 either. It would be closer to 1984 granted, but a full reunion would sound much more like the current tour than it would the glory days.

i don't think many have said that Wolfie is an adequate replacement. But given the cuircumstances the kid has done more than an admirable job. Before the tour we had people on here predicting that he be booed off the stage. The kid has held done his end of the bargain. I still think Mike should be there but the kid has more than exceeded anyone's wildest expectations.

Don't try comparing old bootlegs to this tour, that's unfair to all of them. If Mike was on this tour it wouldn't sound like 1984 either. It would be closer to 1984 granted, but a full reunion would sound much more like the current tour than it would the glory days.

True. But none of us will ever know just how good classic VH would be 30 years later.

True. But none of us will ever know just how good classic VH would be 30 years later.

sadly you're correct. But I would imagine they would sound like this tour with much better background vocals. Pretty damn good but never the same.

I think their only real shot at a great reunion was in 96. The band was at the top of their game, Dave still had it. That would have been special. Nowadays we got a good tour (the band sounds really good). With Mike we would have got a slightly better sounding band but for whatever reason he and the bros don't get along and that tension couldn't have helped the on stage performance.

Maybe one day this band of merry idiots will get along well enough to do a full VH tour. Unfortunately none of them own a time machine so if that day ever comes it'll probably sound like complete shit.

With Mike we would have got a proper reunion, and yes the shows would have been better. Plus the fans would have been more into it.

No matter how well (or badly) Wolfie plays he looks plain stupid standing on a stage as a member of a band where all the other members are 50+.

He'd look silly up there too if it was 1984 and they were all 30.

sadly you're correct. But I would imagine they would sound like this tour with much better background vocals. Pretty damn good but never the same.

I think their only real shot at a great reunion was in 96. The band was at the top of their game, Dave still had it. That would have been special. Nowadays we got a good tour (the band sounds really good). With Mike we would have got a slightly better sounding band but for whatever reason he and the bros don't get along and that tension couldn't have helped the on stage performance.

Maybe one day this band of merry idiots will get along well enough to do a full VH tour. Unfortunately none of them own a time machine so if that day ever comes it'll probably sound like complete shit.

Yup. Unfortunately, waiting for a proper reunion is like pissing in the wind.

VAN HALEN needs Mike

They're sure suffering without him. LOL

They're sure suffering without him. LOL

Depends on what you idea of suffering is. It would be a better show with Mike, that's the fucking point...a lot better.

If Mikey was there I'd have been more inclined to go to the show. Plus it would've justified the long wait and touring with no new music.

If Mikey was there I'd have been more inclined to go to the show. Plus it would've justified the long wait and touring with no new music.

Yup. It would've been well worthwhile to see a real reunion with no new material. I'd be there in a heartbeat if Mike was, but instead I'm saving money by staying home and listening to bootlegs of the real thing.

sadly you're correct. But I would imagine they would sound like this tour with much better background vocals. Pretty damn good but never the same.

I think their only real shot at a great reunion was in 96. The band was at the top of their game, Dave still had it. That would have been special. Nowadays we got a good tour (the band sounds really good). With Mike we would have got a slightly better sounding band but for whatever reason he and the bros don't get along and that tension couldn't have helped the on stage performance.

Maybe one day this band of merry idiots will get along well enough to do a full VH tour. Unfortunately none of them own a time machine so if that day ever comes it'll probably sound like complete shit.

i don't think Dave "had it" back then...certainly the public was hungry for it and it seemed so "perfect" in a lot of ways, but I think Dave is in a much better place for this now...his voice seems stronger, his stage persona is much more appropriate given his age and I think the only missing from this being the triumphant return of the classic VH lineup is Mike...though I still think there can be a future of new music with this lineup...well, I hope there's a future...because if this ends up being a one-off tour and then a couple years from now they bring Mike back into the fold to do the whole reunion thing all over again, i think it'll be pretty lame...

Depends on what you idea of suffering is. It would be a better show with Mike, that's the fucking point...a lot better.

Yep that's the ticket...

Suffering may not be the right word. Degraded is a closer fit.

With MA... they'd have the full, real VH rhythm section. One that can stand on it's own.

Some say Wolfie is the motivational factor for Edward. Ok somewhat I'll buy that... But on the other hand I'd say Wolfie is a significant distraction for Edward from a performance perspective.

Ed has to focus more on his playing due to his personal issues and the effect his medical and substance abuse issues have degraded his ability to play. That's been clear as sunshine since 1999.

With Wolfie sharing the stage... dad is getting lost in his parental admiration quite frequently. Ed's also in a mentoring role from a musical perspective so he's thinking about what Wolfie is playing rather than playing himself. For a guy who is struggling to recapture his former greatness... dragging his kid along isn't allowing him to give the 120% he committed to his fans to deliver when he announced his rehabilitation.

If MA were there... Ed could focus on his job full time and leave the parenting work for when he clocks out and goes home.

With that... yes the performances are degraded and suffering due to the inclusion of Wolfie. Think about it... especially if you have kids and you took them to work with you every day.

Yep that's the ticket...

Suffering may not be the right word. Degraded is a closer fit.

With MA... they'd have the full, real VH rhythm section. One that can stand on it's own.

Some say Wolfie is the motivational factor for Edward. Ok somewhat I'll buy that... But on the other hand I'd say Wolfie is a significant distraction for Edward from a performance perspective.

Ed has to focus more on his playing due to his personal issues and the effect his medical and substance abuse issues have degraded his ability to play. That's been clear as sunshine since 1999.

With Wolfie sharing the stage... dad is getting lost in his parental admiration quite frequently. Ed's also in a mentoring role from a musical perspective so he's thinking about what Wolfie is playing rather than playing himself. For a guy who is struggling to recapture his former greatness... dragging his kid along isn't allowing him to give the 120% he committed to his fans to deliver when he announced his rehabilitation.

If MA were there... Ed could focus on his job full time and leave the parenting work for when he clocks out and goes home.

With that... yes the performances are degraded and suffering due to the inclusion of Wolfie. Think about it... especially if you have kids and you took them to work with you every day.

logically what you say is 100% correct. But we're talking about Ed here. Ed's 2007 performance has been 100 times better than in 2004. The distraction of watching Wolfie should hurt but the worst part of the show as far as Ed's playing is concerned is his solo (the one time the distraction of Wolfie isn't there).

to say they'd sound a lot better with Mike is a bit of a stretch

i don't think Dave "had it" back then...certainly the public was hungry for it and it seemed so "perfect" in a lot of ways, but I think Dave is in a much better place for this now...his voice seems stronger, his stage persona is much more appropriate given his age and I think the only missing from this being the triumphant return of the classic VH lineup is Mike...though I still think there can be a future of new music with this lineup...well, I hope there's a future...because if this ends up being a one-off tour and then a couple years from now they bring Mike back into the fold to do the whole reunion thing all over again, i think it'll be pretty lame...

well Dave's 96 personality wouldn't work now but it did then. The whole band was in a better place then. Ed's playing on the VH3 tour was nothing short of amazing. Al and Mike were outstanding on that tour. And Dave would have brought his A game to a reunion tour. He's all about the big time, and that would have certainly been that.

Any attempt to bring Mike back in the future would be a farce unless it's a final tour where everyone is there, otherwise it doesn't make any sense to have him return. If this is a "new band" then the 4 of them should record new music and carry on. If it's not, then shut it down after this tour and call it a day. If that's the case, they have found a really stupid way to end a fabulous band history.

well Dave's 96 personality wouldn't work now but it did then. The whole band was in a better place then. Ed's playing on the VH3 tour was nothing short of amazing. Al and Mike were outstanding on that tour. And Dave would have brought his A game to a reunion tour. He's all about the big time, and that would have certainly been that.

Any attempt to bring Mike back in the future would be a farce unless it's a final tour where everyone is there, otherwise it doesn't make any sense to have him return. If this is a "new band" then the 4 of them should record new music and carry on. If it's not, then shut it down after this tour and call it a day. If that's the case, they have found a really stupid way to end a fabulous band history.

Well said. I think we can all agree that classic Van Halen had a legacy from the moment they formed up until Dave left. If the Beatles could reunite or Led Zeppelin with all original members it would be absolutely epic, but not very likely a performance like one you'd see in their respective heydays. VH is in the same boat when it comes to the classic era, but they had a chance to do it right; relive that magic once more and they failed to do it; miserably. Classic VH is 4/4 original, and all this is is another other half with a quantitative improvement. As entertaining as it may be; it is not classic VH.

to say they'd sound a lot better with Mike is a bit of a stretch

Really? How so?

Really? How so?

emphasis on "lot"

to say they'd sound a lot better with Mike is a bit of a stretch
Uh, no. They'd definately sound a LOT better if he was there.

They'd look a lot better as well...

Uh, no. They'd definately sound a LOT better if he was there.

They'd look a lot better as well...

Absolutely. does anybody else remember the VH story DVD when EVH tripped out on this amazing bass player/ singer in this band called Snake? Face facts everybody, Wolfgang isn't even a shadow of mike, he's an inadequate replacement.

Uh, no. They'd definately sound a LOT better if he was there.

They'd look a lot better as well...

they would sound better. I'm not gay (not that there is anything wrong with that) so I don't really notice how they look.

we have now begun arguing over how much better they would sound. lol. How much? who knows? who cares? They'd sound better, that should be all that matters. The kid has done an amazing job but the kid isn't Michael Anthony. Not his fault. He's done a great job consider the spot he was placed in. I think Michael would be impressed.

Frankly I don't think Mike gives a shit.

Frankly I don't think Mike gives a shit.

he put in too much time in that band not to care.

Just like it's over for the band, I think it's over for Mike too. Everyone is moving on. I really don't think Mike is worrying about how Wolfgang is doing. Why should anyone expect him to after the treatment he's been given by Ed and Al.

they would sound better. I'm not gay (not that there is anything wrong with that) so I don't really notice how they look.
I'm not gay either but they look bad because of Wolfie. He looks stupid standing on the stage as a full member of the band. Nothing will change that. The bands visual image is tarnished as a result of him being there. A 16 year old with 3 50+ year olds just doesn't belong.

We have now begun arguing over how much better they would sound. lol. How much? who knows? who cares? They'd sound better, that should be all that matters. The kid has done an amazing job but the kid isn't Michael Anthony. Not his fault. He's done a great job consider the spot he was placed in. I think Michael would be impressed.

I don't think he's done an "amazing" job, he's done a fair job.

If Wolfie is really as good as they say he is, he'll never prove it in Van Halen. I'm sure the kid can play, but at the moment he is nothing more than Eddie's son. That won't change unless he stands on his own two feet, it'll never happen while he's a member of Van Halen.

Sadly I think the damage is already done, it's debatable as to whether people will take him seriously now if he does attempt something on his own. He'll be pushing shit up hill for sure.

He has done an adequate job, hardly amazing.

Frankly I don't think Mike gives a shit.
I think Mike feels bummed about the situation, but he's taken the high ground. He's praised Wolfie's ability and can hold his head high.

I'm sure he'll have his sights firmly planted in the future though. He'll move forward and will always look back fondly on what he achieved with Van Halen.

Dave, Eddie, Alex and Mike together gave us 6 peerless albums, Mike can rest assured that the band will never be as great again without his imput.

I don't think he's done an "amazing" job, he's done a fair job.

If Wolfie is really as good as they say he is, he'll never prove it in Van Halen. I'm sure the kid can play, but at the moment he is nothing more than Eddie's son. That won't change unless he stands on his own two feet, it'll never happen while he's a member of Van Halen.

Sadly I think the damage is already done, it's debatable as to whether people will take him seriously now if he does attempt something on his own. He'll be pushing shit up hill for sure.

I think the only thing that will help Wolfie in the eyes of many is if they record new music. If they do and it's good, I think many will look at him differently.

I think Mikey's over it. Mikey is too classy to put down or talk about Wolfy, as he ain't going to hate on the kid because it's not his fault he is out of the band. Plus Mikey is not the kind of person to put down a kid.

I think the only thing that will help Wolfie in the eyes of many is if they record new music. If they do and it's good, I think many will look at him differently.
Nah, I don't think that will help Wolfie's cause at all. The only thing many people will care about is Ed & Dave recording together again. The band was never about Wolfie and never will be.

In the long run, I think it will have more of a negative effect on Wolfgang. When Van Halen calls it quits, who's gonna give a rats about him?

In my opinion the damage is done, Wolfie's career after his tenure in Van Halen is over. Ed should have helped Wolfie with his own project, not draughted him into his band. I really hope time proves me wrong.

Again, I should stress, it's not about how talented the kid is. It's all about perception. We all know Wolfie can play, but he looks silly on stage with Van Halen as a full member. The band should have left Mike in the band and had Wolfie jump on stage as a guest like in the past. That would have been far more appropriate and not tarnished either the bands or Wolfie's image.

I think the only thing that will help Wolfie in the eyes of many is if they record new music. If they do and it's good, I think many will look at him differently.

Maybe, but doubtful... most will claim Ed copped the music and told Wolfie what to play as many have stated in Mike's case.

The Kid will never get the recognition that isn't eclipsed by his father's shadow...

Nah, I don't think that will help Wolfie's cause at all. The only thing many people will care about is Ed & Dave recording together again. The band was never about Wolfie and never will be.

The same can be said regarding MA. ;)

When Van Halen calls it quits, who's gonna give a rats about him?

Again, the same can be said about MA.

In my opinion the damage is done, Wolfie's career after his tenure in Van Halen is over.

Oh boy, this is becoming beyond redundant cos the same applies to MA.

Again, I should stress, it's not about how talented the kid is. It's all about perception.

Yet again, the thousands of people attending these shows have the perception that the performances smoke and don't miss MA whatsoever. Also, the fans are diggin' Wolfie and he's getting quite the applause. When he's up, behind Alex and pounds the intro to RWTD the places go nuts for him. Wolfie's stepping into his own and having a blast. Another example's during the break in "Unchained" cos Dave digs it, Wolfie's having fun and the crowd goes apeshit.

We all know Wolfie can play

And then some... The kid's great and extremely talented.

but he looks silly on stage with Van Halen as a full member.

You're most certainly entitled to your opinion. However, I couldn't disagree with you more.

The band should have left Mike in the band and had Wolfie jump on stage as a guest like in the past. That would have been far more appropriate and not tarnished either the bands or Wolfie's image.

Again, that's merely your opinion. The band's "image" has hardly been "tarnished" on this tour just cos MA's not up there. I hate to break it to you but nobody seems to care. If anything, they're receiving more accolades as a live act than they have in years. Also, Wolfie's "image" seems to be shining!!! :)

Excluding a few Rear Admirals or sailors from the Mikey Navy, everyone's having one heck of a good time.

Max, we can agree on a lot, and I've been impressed with Wolfgang as much as the next guy...

...however, I still believe he looks kinda silly up there with three 50+ year old men, but more from a humor standpoint than anything else :D

Maybe, but doubtful... most will claim Ed copped the music and told Wolfie what to play as many have stated in Mike's case.

The Kid will never get the recognition that isn't eclipsed by his father's shadow...

let me rephrase. I think that most reasonable people will look at Wolfie differently if they record new music.

Those that are hell bent on ripping the kid no matter what he does won't have their minds changed.

let me rephrase. I think that most reasonable people will look at Wolfie differently if they record new music.

Those that are hell bent on ripping the kid no matter what he does won't have their minds changed.

I think a lot of people are stuck between blaming the kid and rightfully blaming Eddie, but don't blame him out of an inability to recognize him for what he is. It isn't Wolfgang's fault. He is just a kid and everyone knows he has no place in the band, but some people seem to at least talk like Wolfgang fired Mike. This incarnation of the band will never see a dime from me regardless of what they do, but Eddie did this and he's been working on it since Wolfgang was about 5 years old.

I think a lot of people are stuck between blaming the kid and rightfully blaming Eddie, but don't blame him out of an inability to recognize him for what he is. It isn't Wolfgang's fault. He is just a kid and everyone knows he has no place in the band, but some people seem to at least talk like Wolfgang fired Mike. This incarnation of the band will never see a dime from me regardless of what they do, but Eddie did this and he's been working on it since Wolfgang was about 5 years old.

I will reserve my opinion on whether or not Wolfie belongs in the band. If they record good new music then I will accept Wolfie as a member of the band (just like I did Gary and Sammy). If they don't record new music then I will become much more critical of his inclusion on this tour.

I already wanted Mike there instead but the show I saw was good and that helped me come around on the kid. If he then adds recording a killer record with his dad and company then I will understand why he is there. Then everything Ed and Dave have said isn't 100% b.s. Only time will tell.

Again, that's merely your opinion. The band's "image" has hardly been "tarnished" on this tour just cos MA's not up there. I hate to break it to you but nobody seems to care. If anything, they're receiving more accolades as a live act than they have in years. Also, Wolfie's "image" seems to be shining!!! :)

Excluding a few Rear Admirals or sailors from the Mikey Navy, everyone's having one heck of a good time.
Max, unlike Wolfie, Mike has already been at the top. Mike doesn't need to prove anything. He played bass and contributed amazing background vocals on the bands most influential and popular recordings. He's not going to have trouble finding another gig if that's what he wants to do. Besides, he seems to be a popular draw card at the Hagar shows.

Though Mike's celebrity standing will more than likely dim (more or less like Dave's or Sam's) outside of the band, he is always going to be THE bassist for Van Halen, much like Dave was always THE singer for the band.

Wolfie on the other hand has everything to prove and being in Van Halen is not going to give him any credibility. The only thing he'll gain is baggage, particularly standing in the shadow of his old man.

Besides, I'm not the only one who feels Classic Van Halen has been tarnished by this appalling decision to go ahead with Wolfgang. Many people do care, whether they've attended the 2007 tour or not. Something IS missing, that something IS Mike.

does dave need Mike?

from a performance standpoint on this tour? Probably not. I expect a good performance out of Dave, he's waited years for this and I think he's up to the task. On a personal level I think it's a different story. I know alot of people want to believe that Ed and Dave are best buds but I doubt it. Yoiu have a couple of people here who have very strong personalities. Let's face it when Dave was in the band (74-84ish) he called the shots, everything they did was pretty much dictated by Dave, the clothes, the image, alot of the song selection etc. and I think Ed really grew to resent Dave for that. How easy is it for Dave to fall back into his role as "leader"? How easy is it for Ed to take something little and blow it out of proportion? I bet it's not that hard....

anyway, if I were Dave I think it would be nice to have someone that you could hang out with that's in the band that's not named "van halen".....

Now maybe there's a real "issue" between Mike and Dave that I don't know about so maybe that's not a possibility but that's my take on the situation..

This incarnation of VH is a nostalgia act until they record new music and do a proper album and tour, plain and simple. I saw them 2xs this tour, Philly Oct 3, and Nassau Coliseum. Had a great time at both shows. But, I could not help but feel that something was missing, MA, thats just me. Now IMO Wolf has done an admirable job stepping in at 16 to play bass. But he is not now in the same league as a Bassist or backing singer as MA. He may someday become that person, but he is not there now.

let me rephrase. I think that most reasonable people will look at Wolfie differently if they record new music.

Those that are hell bent on ripping the kid no matter what he does won't have their minds changed.

I guess it's just perspective and objectivity...

New music shines a different light on Wolf if there's some element that can be attributed to his influence in the compositions from a musical inspiration perspective. Plus the music will need to be great and very new.

Of the 5 completed songs Ed's produced since III... nothing has had much legs to stand on. Definately not his porn crap. For Roth he hasn't done shit from shinola other than cover tunes... better work than Ed's but still nothing fresh.

Anything along those lines comes out of the band... it won't do shit for Wolfie's standings. Reasonable people or not.

I guess it's just perspective and objectivity...

New music shines a different light on Wolf if there's some element that can be attributed to his influence in the compositions from a musical inspiration perspective. Plus the music will need to be great and very new.

Of the 5 completed songs Ed's produced since III... nothing has had much legs to stand on. Definately not his porn crap. For Roth he hasn't done shit from shinola other than cover tunes... better work than Ed's but still nothing fresh.

Anything along those lines comes out of the band... it won't do shit for Wolfie's standings. Reasonable people or not.

Oddly enough the last album Dave did before becoming a cover whore was great (DLR Band). So in 10 years Dave has somehow managed to do less than EVH creatively. Wow....

Oddly enough the last album Dave did before becoming a cover whore was great (DLR Band). So in 10 years Dave has somehow managed to do less than EVH creatively. Wow....

no one in the Van Halen clan (past or present) will be taking over the title as the hardest working man in show business anytime soon.

One has to wonder if the creative wells have all gone dry...

One has to wonder if the creative wells have all gone dry...

if the 3 tunes Ed did for BOBW is any clue, thn Id say yes.

That's why I will hold my judgement on Wolfie's place in the band. He has clearly had a positive impact on pops onstage. If he can light a fire under his ass in the studio I think most reasonable fans will come around.

I saw these guys in Chicago in Oct. All i can say is Wolfgang looked lost, he was there. his dad tried to loosen him up but to me, he looked like he was there. The interaction between him and Dave looked staged. Ed, Dave, and Alex were doing there thing and Wolf was just there.... I saw the 04 tour and Mike had that presence for that side of the stage. I loved sing VH last year but I truely missed Mike, honestly.

no one in the Van Halen clan (past or present) will be taking over the title as the hardest working man in show business anytime soon.

I can't agree 100%. You seem to be lumping in Dave and Sam in with Ed and Al....

Sam tours ever year. Dave used to tour every year He did the radio gig for 6 months.

Ed and Al....have been doing nothing. They toured in 2004. After 6 year hiatus. 3 new songs...that were, I believe, recycled from VH III leftovers and unreleased tracks. They keep claiming that they make music every day. Do you know how many records they could have put out already if in fact they have been making music everyday for 6-8 years? Why haven't they? I'm not demanding that they release music. But then don't tell the fans that your making music all the time.

That's like repeatedly telling your friends that you have seasons tickets to the Toronto Maple Leafs....yet....you NEVER seem to ask them if they want to go to a game or two. (However, It's me will know that nobody desires seasons tickets to the TML anymore;) )

Sam has come out with a new record. Hardest working men in show business, no way. But who is these days?

I can't agree 100%. You seem to be lumping in Dave and Sam in with Ed and Al....

Sam tours ever year. Dave used to tour every year He did the radio gig for 6 months.

Ed and Al....have been doing nothing. They toured in 2004. After 6 year hiatus. 3 new songs...that were, I believe, recycled from VH III leftovers and unreleased tracks. They keep claiming that they make music every day. Do you know how many records they could have put out already if in fact they have been making music everyday for 6-8 years? Why haven't they? I'm not demanding that they release music. But then don't tell the fans that your making music all the time.

That's like repeatedly telling your friends that you have seasons tickets to the Toronto Maple Leafs....yet....you NEVER seem to ask them if they want to go to a game or two. (However, It's me will know that nobody desires seasons tickets to the TML anymore;) )

Sam has come out with a new record. Hardest working men in show business, no way. But who is these days?

Alice Cooper, like Sammy Hagar, has a helluva resume. New album this summer followed by yet another tour. They both do a lot of musical work despite being filthy rich and 60 years old.

By the way, just gonna throw this out there. Not for attendance, but musically, Van Halen, not just Dave, need Mike.

By the way, just gonna throw this out there. Not for attendance, but musically, Van Halen, not just Dave, need Mike.
Absolutely.

While I would like to see Mikey with VH, I would not blame him if he never toured/recorded with them again. I think he is content with his life and he is taking care of himself for once. I would bet that he likes touring with Sammy and hopefully he does his own little thing with his new band.

Mikey you rule to this fan!!!

While I would like to see Mikey with VH, I would not blame him if he never toured/recorded with them again. I think he is content with his life and he is taking care of himself for once. I would bet that he likes touring with Sammy and hopefully he does his own little thing with his new band.

Mikey you rule to this fan!!!

I agree 100%. I really hope he, Sam, Satch and Chad Smith record an album. Could be one hell of an album.

I agree 100%. I really hope he, Sam, Satch and Chad Smith record an album. Could be one hell of an album.

that would be cool!!!!

While I would like to see Mikey with VH, I would not blame him if he never toured/recorded with them again. I think he is content with his life and he is taking care of himself for once. I would bet that he likes touring with Sammy and hopefully he does his own little thing with his new band.

Mikey you rule to this fan!!!

I agree that I'm sure he's content. But I bet if asked, he'd be at 5150 in a second.

Let me get it out of the way that I like Mike and wish he was a part of this. His vocals are an integral part of their albums, but he is sometimes WOEFULLY out of tune on his background vocals when they play live.

On many of the boots I have his vocals are way off, and when he played with Sam his vocals were too high in the register on many of the songs, especially BOBW, but again, I still wish he was there just because he deserves it and it would be cool to see him up there.

Now let me go run and hide before the Mike Navy starts bombing me!

Let me get it out of the way that I like Mike and wish he was a part of this. His vocals are an integral part of their albums, but he is sometimes WOEFULLY out of tune on his background vocals when they play live.

On many of the boots I have his vocals are way off, and when he played with Sam his vocals were too high in the register on many of the songs, especially BOBW, but again, I still wish he was there just because he deserves it and it would be cool to see him up there.

Now let me go run and hide before the Mike Navy starts bombing me!

You're absolutely right, but his worst night vocally is still miles ahead of Wolf's best.

Let me get it out of the way that I like Mike and wish he was a part of this. His vocals are an integral part of their albums, but he is sometimes WOEFULLY out of tune on his background vocals when they play live.

On many of the boots I have his vocals are way off, and when he played with Sam his vocals were too high in the register on many of the songs, especially BOBW, but again, I still wish he was there just because he deserves it and it would be cool to see him up there.

Now let me go run and hide before the Mike Navy starts bombing me!

As leader as Anthony's Army....I give you a pardon.......:thumb:

See what you did what provide constructive criticism. Not just....

Mikey's vocals suck and 90% of the time are out of tune.


You didn't even have to say that you LIKE Mikey. That doesn't need to be said.



It should be a prerequisite:D

As leader as Anthony's Army....I give you a pardon.......:thumb:

See what you did what provide constructive criticism. Not just....

Mikey's vocals suck and 90% of the time are out of tune.


You didn't even have to say that you LIKE Mikey. That doesn't need to be said.



It should be a prerequisite:D

WTF Mitch? When did you become leader? :)

You're absolutely right, but his worst night vocally is still miles ahead of Wolf's best.
Same could be said for the bass playing. :)

WTF Mitch? When did you become leader? :)

:D

I just saw van halen at madison square garden last week and i thought they were good (not great). But i cant help but think Dave misses mike's presence maybe more than he thought or even would care to admit. Ed's kid can play fine but as everyone knows he has Zero stage presence and he gives dave nothing to work off of. Mike did. watch some old clips and dave hangs on Mike more than he interacts with Ed. Dave looked a little lost to me on stage last week at times, like he was looking for someone besides Ed to "play" with. and all he had was Ed's kid.

I dunno, just thought i'd throw that out there.

As much as I personally don't give (too much of) a shit whether Mike is there or not, this is a good point. The interaction between Dave and Wolf seemed to have improved as the tour moved on, but he is only 16. Very different than having one of your "buddies" up there.

Good call. :cool:

Too bad that Ed is not thinking about the fans...or Mike.

He was thinking about his son, which is cool in my book.

It's a cover band, just like the Other Half.


ROTFLMAO...not quite. :D

He was thinking about his son, which is cool in my book.

I hear what your saying, but there are other ways to think about your kid. Like producing his first album or letting's Wolf's band open for them. Ed shoud think about the fans somewhere in this equation.

I believe Dave will have some regrets if nothing more comes out of this "new band". The lure to play with Edward again certainly was too strong for Dave to turn down. But i believe deep down Dave knows the magic that was CVH. Wolfie has nothing to do with that magic.

When he looks back at this tour and thinks to himself" When i turned to my left, there was Edward."" As i spun around to the back, aah...Big Al."'Then i looked to my right , there was Mik.....Wolfie?!?

*sigh*

While i enjoyed the Hell out of the show i saw in OKC, I still believe this was a moment not seized. It's my belief that Dave will feel the same way in future years.

I hear what your saying, but there are other ways to think about your kid. Like producing his first album or letting's Wolf's band open for them. Ed shoud think about the fans somewhere in this equation.

Exactly. Wolf should have had to earn his way musically first just like anyone else. Ed could have given him the support he needed to get a band up and going or anything else for that matter. It's like young Wolf was allowed to bypass the minors and go straight to the pros, thanks to pops. He didn't earn it. Another thing too, Ed and Wolf had how many years to do a father/son project during VH's downtime? Once again, Ed is guilty of wasting time. The one thing that Dave always maintained about the Bros. They should have done a project or two to fulfill that need and given us a rightful reunion this year. But, it wasn't to be.

As far as Dave needing Mike, yeah I think he does need to have him out front to feed off of. When you watch the old clips, it's obvious they had interaction, which added to the shows. What's amazing to me is that Dave went against his own words when he went and agreed to this current lineup. His integrity went right out the window, because he had said that in order for Van Halen to have full closure, they would need to do an original reunion before each could move on. I guess the temptations were too great for Dave.

Exactly. Wolf should have had to earn his way musically first just like anyone else. Ed could have given him the support he needed to get a band up and going or anything else for that matter. It's like young Wolf was allowed to bypass the minors and go straight to the pros, thanks to pops. He didn't earn it. Another thing too, Ed and Wolf had how many years to do a father/son project during VH's downtime? Once again, Ed is guilty of wasting time. The one thing that Dave always maintained about the Bros. They should have done a project or two to fulfill that need and given us a rightful reunion this year. But, it wasn't to be.

As far as Dave needing Mike, yeah I think he does need to have him out front to feed off of. When you watch the old clips, it's obvious they had interaction, which added to the shows. What's amazing to me is that Dave went against his own words when he went and agreed to this current lineup. His integrity went right out the window, because he had said that in order for Van Halen to have full closure, they would need to do an original reunion before each could move on. I guess the temptations were too great for Dave

Wolf wanted to play with dad. Dad wanted to play with Wolf. What's the harm in that?

Maybe this IS the project. They all said this is NOT a reunion. To me, that says they are leaving the door open for the "rightful" reunion (as well as closure) down the road. No?

Wolf wanted to play with dad. Dad wanted to play with Wolf. What's the harm in that?

Maybe this IS the project. They all said this is NOT a reunion. To me, that says they are leaving the door open for the "rightful" reunion (as well as closure) down the road. No?

There's is no harm in a father playing music with his son, my point was that they have had ample time to do just that. Even more so since dad is lucky enough to have a studio and musician friends who could have accompanied them, if need be.

It isn't a reunion, your right there, but I question the window of time here now. Especially when Ed's health is up in the air. It may not be possible to have a rightful reunion anymore, as much as I would like that. Ed needs to get his head right first.

There's is no harm in a father playing music with his son, my point was that they have had ample time to do just that. Even more so since dad is lucky enough to have a studio and musician friends who could have accompanied them, if need be.

It isn't a reunion, your right there, but I question the window of time here now. Especially when Ed's health is up in the air. It may not be possible to have a rightful reunion anymore, as much as I would like that. Ed needs to get his head right first.

I agree that Ed needs to get well before anything else is even considered. But, for the sake of conversation, assume Ed does not get well and can never tour again, I think playing with his son was more important than a VH reunion.

Wolf wanted to play with dad. Dad wanted to play with Wolf. What's the harm in that?

Maybe this IS the project. They all said this is NOT a reunion. To me, that says they are leaving the door open for the "rightful" reunion (as well as closure) down the road. No?

If VH Tours next year and says....This is the REAL Reunion Tour....they might as well call it the..."We think the fans are dumb-shits tour."

This is not a PROJECT. Dave said it wasn't a Reunion...but they know damn well that 95% of people are considering this a Reunion...and that's where the money is going to be made.

So just because Wolf is in the band this makes it a unique PROJECT. No. what would have been a unique project...would have been had Dad, Wolfie and Uncle Al done a solo record like they said they were (ala Howard Stern 2006)...with a couple vocalists or just a instrumental record.

However...if they get Mike back and record new material...THEN tour...then that would be something to talk about...and I would be all for it.

But I am currently done seeing them play the same old cookie cutter, copy and pasted setlist....regardless of whether Mikey is there or not.....they had their chance to do it right and Ed and Al fucked it up.

This Tour ruined the excitement that was building behind the idea of a CLASSIC VAN HALEN Reunion.

What I don't understand is judging by your opinion you seem to have a dis-taste for Mikey anyways...so it's obvious you PREFER Wolfie...because he's Ed's son.

I agree that Ed needs to get well before anything else is even considered. But, for the sake of conversation, assume Ed does not get well and can never tour again, I think playing with his son was more important than a VH reunion.

Ed could play with his son everyday in 5150 like he HAS been doing.

So the need to play infront of 20,000 people is what kept Ed going and is more important than a CVH Reunion?

Give me a break, Ted Templeman.:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

If VH Tours next year and says....This is the REAL Reunion Tour....they might as well call it the..."We think the fans are dumb-shits tour."

This is not a PROJECT. Dave said it wasn't a Reunion...but they know damn well that 95% of people are considering this a Reunion...and that's where the money is going to be made.

So just because Wolf is in the band this makes it a unique PROJECT. No. what would have been a unique project...would have been had Dad, Wolfie and Uncle Al done a solo record like they said they were (ala Howard Stern 2006)...with a couple vocalists or just a instrumental record.

However...if they get Mike back and record new material...THEN tour...then that would be something to talk about...and I would be all for it.

But I am currently done seeing them play the same old cookie cutter, copy and pasted setlist....regardless of whether Mikey is there or not.....they had their chance to do it right and Ed and Al fucked it up.

This Tour ruined the excitement that was building behind the idea of a CLASSIC VAN HALEN Reunion.

What I don't understand is judging by your opinion you seem to have a dis-taste for Mikey anyways...so it's obvious you PREFER Wolfie...because he's Ed's son.

I have a distaste for Mike's taste. LOL.

I have said many times that my first choice (if everyone was getting along) would be the original 4, with Hagar playing "Far Far Away" LOL.

However, Edward and son, playing together publicly (for all of us to enjoy seeing and hearing) has a different kind of appeal to me. Like hundreds of thousands of other people, I was curious to see what Wolf could do. I would have been happy with Wolf playing some songs and Mike playing some songs. If there was no bad blood.

And, obviously, I am a die hard Roth fan, so if Dave is there...I am there. I may not like evrything he does, but I will checkout everything he does. That's what fans do.

Two things:

When I go to see a rock band, it's to see them and hear their music, not to see one member who is less than half of the others age. The whole thing about this tour takes on different vibe, and a less than rock atmosphere. It's like a watered down version. Ed, Alex, and Wolfgang should have done a project together before any tour was announced. They had plenty of time to do this. I don't see the appeal of having Wolfie there whatsoever. It's cute and all, I guess from a parental point of view, but hardly what it takes to deliver a top notch concert like it should be done. Besides, if it's classics you're going to play, it just makes more sense to have the original members who created the music to start with perform it.

If they were to ever get Mike back (hypothetical here) and tour next year, they would have to do a completely different set list in order to appeal to fans who were teased this tour. Certain staples would have to be played I guess, but they would have to pull some deep cuts so as not to be giving the same show twice in a row. I'm reaching with this last idea, as it probably won't ever happen anyway.

So, to again answer the topic question, yes, Dave needs Mike present

Two things:

When I go to see a rock band, it's to see them and hear their music, not to see one member who is less than half of the others age. The whole thing about this tour takes on different vibe, and a less than rock atmosphere. It's like a watered down version. Ed, Alex, and Wolfgang should have done a project together before any tour was announced. They had plenty of time to do this. I don't see the appeal of having Wolfie there whatsoever. It's cute and all, I guess from a parental point of view, but hardly what it takes to deliver a top notch concert like it should be done. Besides, if it's classics you're going to play, it just makes more sense to have the original members who created the music to start with perform it.

If they were to ever get Mike back (hypothetical here) and tour next year, they would have to do a completely different set list in order to appeal to fans who were teased this tour. Certain staples would have to be played I guess, but they would have to pull some deep cuts so as not to be giving the same show twice in a row. I'm reaching with this last idea, as it probably won't ever happen anyway.

So, to again answer the topic question, yes, Dave needs Mike present

I am just wondering if you went to a show or if you think it would have a less than rock atmosphere because of Wolf.

I went to a show, and what gave it (or atleast the ending) a less than rock atmosphere was that fucking tune Jump (which is "less than" rock, IMO) with Dave wearing a too big sailor hat (ugh) and confetti and balloons flying all over the place. I felt like I was at a 4 year old's birthday party and Dave WAS the 4 year old! jumping all around on an oversized toy microphone. I hated that. But, to each his/her own, I guess. The crowd loved it. I didn't get it.

As far as the project goes, who do you think the singer should have been if they were playing all CVH songs?

One more question out of curiousity. If Ed and Mike make up, or whatever you want to call it, and they hit the studio first and record new music. And if the setlist was CVH old and new tunes, would you go to a show? I KNOW thats a stretch, but that is my hope.

I am just wondering if you went to a show or if you think it would have a less than rock atmosphere because of Wolf.

No, I didn't go to any shows, as I don't support this lineup.

I went to a show, and what gave it (or atleast the ending) a less than rock atmosphere was that fucking tune Jump (which is "less than" rock, IMO) with Dave wearing a too big sailor hat (ugh) and confetti and balloons flying all over the place. I felt like I was at a 4 year old's birthday party and Dave WAS the 4 year old! jumping all around on an oversized toy microphone. I hated that. But, to each his/her own, I guess. The crowd loved it. I didn't get it.

Jump should not be an encore song. You got to leave the crowd wanting more. I still can't believe they're ending their shows with that one. Dave needs to drop all the props, especially the inflatable mic. That might have worked for his solo shows, but looks way out of place at a Van Halen show to me.

As far as the project goes, who do you think the singer should have been if they were playing all CVH songs?

Dave, of course. He's the voice of Van Halen imo.

One more question out of curiousity. If Ed and Mike make up, or whatever you want to call it, and they hit the studio first and record new music. And if the setlist was CVH old and new tunes, would you go to a show? I KNOW thats a stretch, but that is my hope.

Sure I would. But I'm not holding much hope for a reunion with Mike now, nor am I thinking there's going to be new music. I just don't see that. To me, this tour is it. This was nothing more than a business venture the way I see it. I'll be very surprised if they do record new music.

I think you are on to something here. If Mike and Dave were on stage together they would be sharing a drink/bottle bringing more of a party atmosphere like the old days. Dave can't do that with Ed cus it would turn in to '04 again.

Not to mention that both Dave and Mike singing in tandem is an undeniable, signature Halen sound. :headbang:

Not to mention that both Dave and Mike singing in tandem is an undeniable, signature Halen sound. :headbang:

Yeah I think that Ed and Al are completely fooling themselves if they think Mike is just a spare part, which is about all they treated him as anyways. If it's not one thing it's another with this band. I said it before and I'll said it again, they had a chance to do this right and they completely fucking blew it. Just gonna throw in my two cents on what would have made this tour what it should have been:

1) Mike, he had to be there, his vocals are essential, and the presence of all 4 members would have been even more astounding than the whole "dave and eddie together again" thing that everyone got so hung up on.

2) Set list changes. I followed Motley Crue for 3 shows, and every time it was the same show. People in general want the hits, no way around it. However, they should throw in something like Fools one night, and the next night throw in Mean Street or The Full Bug. Besides, you'd think the band would get sick of playing the same thing every night

3) In 1983 or 1984 it was kinda funny when Dave "forgot the fucking words". There's no excuse after years of performing these tunes for that to happen. Especially with what the fans are paying, they deserve a top notch effort night in, night out. Dave also needs to drop the lame costumes that make him look so dated. Just go out and play and don't dress like a clown. People can debate that if they like, but some of his attire are just ridiculous.

4) Cheaper tickets. Every single person who has spent their hard earned cash on this tour is getting short changed, regardless of what one thinks. You can't justify a concert ticket being in excess of $65-75 for a arena venue. It's a rip off, and it really just enforces the idea that the music and the spirit it entails are meaningless compared to the almighty dollar.

5) Meet and greets, some form of positive interaction with the fans. In-depth interviews, etc. If it weren't for this site, none of us would have a fucking clue about what actually goes on with these guys. They are not fan friendly, and again, with the money you spend and the money you've invested to make them who they are, if they are going to tour, then they should be grateful you're willing to spend that kinda dough to see them. If you're not going to make this reunion everything it can be, then why do it at all? Oh right, money.

Yeah I think that Ed and Al are completely fooling themselves if they think Mike is just a spare part, which is about all they treated him as anyways. If it's not one thing it's another with this band. I said it before and I'll said it again, they had a chance to do this right and they completely fucking blew it. Just gonna throw in my two cents on what would have made this tour what it should have been:

1) Mike, he had to be there, his vocals are essential, and the presence of all 4 members would have been even more astounding than the whole "dave and eddie together again" thing that everyone got so hung up on.

2) Set list changes. I followed Motley Crue for 3 shows, and every time it was the same show. People in general want the hits, no way around it. However, they should throw in something like Fools one night, and the next night throw in Mean Street or The Full Bug. Besides, you'd think the band would get sick of playing the same thing every night

3) In 1983 or 1984 it was kinda funny when Dave "forgot the fucking words". There's no excuse after years of performing these tunes for that to happen. Especially with what the fans are paying, they deserve a top notch effort night in, night out. Dave also needs to drop the lame costumes that make him look so dated. Just go out and play and don't dress like a clown. People can debate that if they like, but some of his attire are just ridiculous.

4) Cheaper tickets. Every single person who has spent their hard earned cash on this tour is getting short changed, regardless of what one thinks. You can't justify a concert ticket being in excess of $65-75 for a arena venue. It's a rip off, and it really just enforces the idea that the music and the spirit it entails are meaningless compared to the almighty dollar.

5) Meet and greets, some form of positive interaction with the fans. In-depth interviews, etc. If it weren't for this site, none of us would have a fucking clue about what actually goes on with these guys. They are not fan friendly, and again, with the money you spend and the money you've invested to make them who they are, if they are going to tour, then they should be grateful you're willing to spend that kinda dough to see them. If you're not going to make this reunion everything it can be, then why do it at all? Oh right, money.

The classic was when Dave started singing the quiet part of Ain't Talkin Bout Love during the quiet part of Panama at one show.

Then he said, "Hey it's been 23 fucking years what do you want from me?"

Does nobody in the crowd get that ATBL and Panama have been in constant rotation in Dave's setlist since the day after he left/got fired from VH? HELLLO?!?!?!

I am just wondering if you went to a show or if you think it would have a less than rock atmosphere because of Wolf.

I went to a show, and what gave it (or atleast the ending) a less than rock atmosphere was that fucking tune Jump (which is "less than" rock, IMO) with Dave wearing a too big sailor hat (ugh) and confetti and balloons flying all over the place. I felt like I was at a 4 year old's birthday party and Dave WAS the 4 year old! jumping all around on an oversized toy microphone. I hated that. But, to each his/her own, I guess. The crowd loved it. I didn't get it.

As far as the project goes, who do you think the singer should have been if they were playing all CVH songs?

One more question out of curiousity. If Ed and Mike make up, or whatever you want to call it, and they hit the studio first and record new music. And if the setlist was CVH old and new tunes, would you go to a show? I KNOW thats a stretch, but that is my hope.

Finally...something we can agree on!:thumb: :D

I doubt Mike is coming back though. And a part of me doesn't want him back. Mike should say, "Fuck you" to Ed and Al.

The selfish "fan" part of me wants Mikey back so I can see him with the boys......however....if Mike is happy with Sammy....then he DESERVES to be happy and spared of Sir Edwards bullshit!:headbang:

A post I agree with. ^ Well said.

No, I didn't go to any shows, as I don't support this lineup.



Jump should not be an encore song. You got to leave the crowd wanting more. I still can't believe they're ending their shows with that one. Dave needs to drop all the props, especially the inflatable mic. That might have worked for his solo shows, but looks way out of place at a Van Halen show to me.



Dave, of course. He's the voice of Van Halen imo.



Sure I would. But I'm not holding much hope for a reunion with Mike now, nor am I thinking there's going to be new music. I just don't see that. To me, this tour is it. This was nothing more than a business venture the way I see it. I'll be very surprised if they do record new music.

Mike will NEVER play with VH again. If we have learned anything from Ed at all, it's that he is a stubborn prick, 23 years to play with Dave again (Live). As he says, Wolf is the bass player for the band. End of story. The day Wolf quits, so does Ed.

Don't worry though, Dave will write an open letter after this tour when Ed says Fuck You to new music. It should be interesting to read the dirt Dave dishes out on this entire abomination when it's over and the muffle gets cut off his mouth. Dave just can't possibly stay as quite as he has for to much longer.

Until I see Wolf play something like Pleasure Dome, no he doesn't have the same skills as Mike.

That is some f'd up bassparts. The Classic 6 have simple bass lines.

That is why in my first comment I thought Wolfie did a great job and was proficient as Mike. The bass lines are fairly simple on the Dave Era stuff pretty hard to fuck them up. I think for what Wolfie was asked to play he did a great job and proficient as Mike would have or could be on those songs. I'm just as pissed as the next person that Mike isn't in the band anymore, but I'm not going to piss all over Wolfie's performance because Mike's not in the band anymore, it is what it is.

Did I just read that right? Wolfgang was as proficient as Mike on bass?:wtf:

Granted, the bass lines are fairly simplistic, but there are places were Mike's fills are phenomenal. Surely you jest that Wolf is as proficient??? He's sixteen, seventeen now, and has nowhere near Mike's experience. Gimme a frickin' break.:rolleyes:

Hogwash! While we all like MA, Wolf is doing just fine on this tour. I would even say he's a better bass player, yet, while his vocals are spot on, there is something a miss not having Mike there. But we can't have our cake and eat it too. This is Van Halen, like it or not. Love it or leave it.



You would say Wolf is a better bass player? I'm really at a loss on this other than alot of fans are just too blinded by Ed's B.S. Can you give me some examples please? Because I can give you plenty of examples that proves just the opposite

I just saw van halen at madison square garden last week and i thought they were good (not great). But i cant help but think Dave misses mike's presence maybe more than he thought or even would care to admit. Ed's kid can play fine but as everyone knows he has Zero stage presence and he gives dave nothing to work off of. Mike did. watch some old clips and dave hangs on Mike more than he interacts with Ed. Dave looked a little lost to me on stage last week at times, like he was looking for someone besides Ed to "play" with. and all he had was Ed's kid.

I dunno, just thought i'd throw that out there.

I didn't even go to a show and I know exactly what you mean Sheep. Ed has done everything in his power to ruin the band. Whether it be intentional or unintentional.

I would rather see Dave with Brian, Ray and James...the Asian guy is great but unnessecary.....than this sorry excuse of a reunion.

Roth is awesome and a reunion in 1998 would have been the real deal but this shit is just not VH. If they're really going to continue to go around as a scab band like this they should just get Ed's musical soulmate back so they can finish releasing those 10 albums Ed's got in the can and then Roth and Hagar can bury the hatchet and go on tour together again this time doing it the right way.

I'd rather see that than having to sit through another Eddie Van Halen brew fest

Did I just read that right? Wolfgang was as proficient as Mike on bass?:wtf:

Granted, the bass lines are fairly simplistic, but there are places were Mike's fills are phenomenal. Surely you jest that Wolf is as proficient??? He's sixteen, seventeen now, and has nowhere near Mike's experience. Gimme a frickin' break.:rolleyes:



A prodigy my ass. I don't wish any ill on the kid but Wolf's not even good enough to carry Mike's gig bag let alone try and carry his gig. This whole reunion had a real high school talent show kind of vibe to it with Wolf there.

Everybody talks about Mike being average......the only real bass player that's average is Wolf. Mike's playing was always way above average especially in the band's early days. All those bootleg nerds out there now what I'm talking about unless they are too mesmorized by Ed's B.S.

Sure Mike was no Jaco or Entwistle...though he very easily could have been a J.E. in my opinion under different circumstances...but he wasn't some average to below average guy like Cliff Williams or Nikki Sixx.

Mike was and is the shit. Just cause he didn't play a chopped out solo doesn't mean he sucked. Had the guy come out and played a more musical solo I'm sure he would have heard about it from the Van Heineken Sisters

go to a show fellas. Wolf plays the bass parts better than you would think. That's all. Doesn't have the showmanship of MA but does better playing the parts.


You're a frigging dumba$$

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HhMX9qTXqA

VS.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPUBlAMCThc


Wolf plays it real stock except for one little riff that he repeats over and over in the beginning and through the song with the exception of a few bass slides at the end......Mike improvises all over the place in the beginning and throws down fills like a mofo. Mike's also not standing in one place like a tree either.

Wolf might get there some day.....but VH don't have that many days left


If Ed had cyanide laced kool-aid you'd drink a whole pitcher of it


.....notice Mike also plays the tune with his fingers.....Mike uses both his fingers and a pick and you can't tell when he's using one or the other.....Wolf just uses a pick.....playing with your fingers is way tougher than playing with a pick

I guess to clarify....I was focused on Dave and Ed.



That there explains it......you're focused on the two "stars" of the band and not "the band"


Just cause Jimmy Page and Robert Plant went on tour years ago didn't mean it was Led Zeppelin....even though some were calling it that...it clearly wasn't Zeppelin.......Page, Jones and Jason with a different singer would be closer to the real deal than that abortion Page and Plant did years ago.