I'm going waaaaaaaaaaaay out there with this intereting topic that has been stirring in my mind for a bit. Not that I think it may be true or anything but a what if type of thing. If thinking came after reading that old ass interview with Ed from 82.

Maybe Mike was really a leech that just enjoyed the popularity and money that came with being Van Halen. So what if the nice guy and loyal to the fans personality that is displayed by Mike is what kept him in the band for so long? The fans would be in an uproar if Mike was kicked out and replaced because he was the nice guy.

Now maybe Ed just finally had enough and said screw what the fans care and finally off'ed Mike just before the 04 tour. But Mike is still smileing. Is it because he knows he can still do what he wants now that he has an established hot sauce and a drinking buddy(Sam) to tour with ever now and then?

I've been up all night. Damn jack hammers outside my window.

I didn't notice a new mike only forum. Move this thread there if you guys can. thnaks.

Mikey is the coolest man alive. I'm sure he's relieved that he doesn't have the pressure of being in VH now. He can do whatever he wants without having to worry about being told what to do. I bet that he'll be back in one day, even if just for a while. I just don't feel that he's really out for good.

Now maybe Ed just finally had enough and said screw what the fans care

I'll agree with this part but the rest is way out there.

It wouldn't matter if MA was a bass prodigy...with Ed's ego and need for song control, MA didn't have a say. In the early days, VH songs were about DLR and Ed...wasn't much room left for MA to shine, except his harmonies. MA will be missed for his personality and vocals, not bass. It's not that MA is a leech...it's because Ed's a prodigy that needs complete control and only his blood line is good enough for him.

It's always been my belief that in the early days MA came up with his own bass lines for the songs. It wasn't until "1984" that EVH began to dominate the overall making of Van Halen's albums.

Mike went with the flow, and in the following years his role in the band became more and more diminished until EVH probably came up with ninety percent of what Mike wound up playing on the albums.

If MA got lazy, it might have been because Eddie benched him.

Let me add my 2 cents. And I'm speaking only of bass playing, not Mike's other contributions of essential vocals for the Van Halen "sound," as well as his stage performance and energy.

Lets assume that the FW album is an example of 100% Mike's bass effort there.

I feel the bass playing on that album is exactly what each track needed. Its perfect, and it contributes strongly while letting the guitar shine on up front. Its up front, deep and punchy, and completely supports the structure of the songs very well. A great foundation for the rhythm.

Now if Mike let Eddie tell him what to do from that point on, then clearly he decided to what he felt he had to in order to remain part of the band.

Its too bad, really, since that probably reinforced Eddie's opinion of Mike at the same time it allowed Mike to step away from the compositional aspect and let Eddie do it. And the bass went downhill from FW, in my opinion.

Thats the bad feedback loop right there. If Mike stood up to Eddie about the bass compositions in the late 80's, would he have remained with the band? I think it was a Catch-22 for him.

I have read that Ed played a lot of the bass tracks on the old VH albums too but who knows the truth? Back in the day in articles VH would say they'd record most of it live and Ed would only overdub some guitar parts and solos. That would suggest Mike played it all.
*shrug*


No way was MS a leech. How can you even consider that? It has come out that ED wanted to replace MA since back in the day because MA wasn't at the same level of talent and in a way held back or limited what was possible musically. I'm not sure I buy that 100% either.

Either way MA has been a rock in VH since they started out. I've never met the guy but have read many times how down to earth and approachable he is. One of the most humble members of the bad who has always been cool to the fans. His Vocals have become a part of the VH sound as is his presence in the band and on stage.

I think as ED has gotten older he's become more of a control freak and in some ways has become petty. The problems he's had with Sam and Mike are just immature imo. Sure EVH IS VH. withought Ed there is no band but you can't erase what the other members have added to the chemistry. Theyre blood and sweat invested into the band. Any standup guy would let his bass player plug his little hot sauce after being in the band over 25 years. I love Ed but if that and the "Other Half" is the main reason Mike is out then Ed is out of control in that regard. Mike has been a good soldier all these years putting up with a lot of BS and defneding most of the bizarre decisions of Ed's and he can't sell hot sauce? Ed's the man but he needs to be more spiritual and less drunk. Hurts to say it but it's true.

Eddie is just jealous of Mikey's fan connection.

i dont think ed was aware of the fan connection until the big uproar over mikes absence. ed cant be doin it for the money man,80% of the people who used to admire , respect, connect with him now hate, loath,bash him.makes no sense to me.

I'm going waaaaaaaaaaaay out there with this intereting topic that has been stirring in my mind for a bit. Not that I think it may be true or anything but a what if type of thing. If thinking came after reading that old ass interview with Ed from 82.

Maybe Mike was really a leech that just enjoyed the popularity and money that came with being Van Halen. So what if the nice guy and loyal to the fans personality that is displayed by Mike is what kept him in the band for so long? The fans would be in an uproar if Mike was kicked out and replaced because he was the nice guy.

Now maybe Ed just finally had enough and said screw what the fans care and finally off'ed Mike just before the 04 tour. But Mike is still smileing. Is it because he knows he can still do what he wants now that he has an established hot sauce and a drinking buddy(Sam) to tour with ever now and then?

I've been up all night. Damn jack hammers outside my window.

Ed used to be the nice guy too so I don't buy the theory.

It wouldn't matter if MA was a bass prodigy...with Ed's ego and need for song control, MA didn't have a say.

Um, no actually. MA didnt HAVE anything to say. Ed was the songwriter because he was the only one talented enough to write great songs. They are his songs and yet the rest of the band own copyright to them, how BS is that? So dont give me that crap about Ed being controling and a bad guy.

Uh most NORMAL bands who grew up battling in the trenches to get famous give writing credit to all members. Only asshole egomaniacs don't. And nobody really knows how VH songs came together anyway.

And nobody really knows how VH songs came together anyway.

THAT is a good point. Everyone automatically assumes Al and Mike had no input whatsoever and were only told what to do.

I've never been in a band, but my buddies that have, tell me it's usually a collaborative, give and take, brainstorming free-for-all suggestion sort of process.

Uh most NORMAL bands who grew up battling in the trenches to get famous give writing credit to all members. Only asshole egomaniacs don't. And nobody really knows how VH songs came together anyway.

Oh sorry, I completely forgot... David Lee Roth DID teach Ed some of Eruption.

Uh most NORMAL bands who grew up battling in the trenches to get famous give writing credit to all members. Only asshole egomaniacs don't. And nobody really knows how VH songs came together anyway.


Ed mainly and Al along some with Mike came up with the music.... and some vocal ideas here and there. Dave came up with the majority of lyrics and vocals melodies for their "C" VH tunes. They fined tuned and developed a lot of them, a surprising amount of in their early club days.

I think Ed may have been jealous of Mike's fan connection as someone else said. I think this probably started pretty early on. I think that's why in interviews from 1982, he is talking smack about Mike.

Just cuz Ed was smilin' in the Jump video doesn't necessarily make him the happy go lucky, good-humored guitarist. If anything, it may make him a phony baloney. Ed you're better at guitar than Mike is at bass, Sam or Dave are at vocals, and even your brother is at drums. Okay? You're the star. You're the wizard. You're the namesake. Enough?

Ed's complaint of late about Mike is that he can't hear the bass. I don't get it. Can someone who is more musically trained than I explain why this would be Mike's fault? Wouldn't a producer or even Ed say, "Hey, I can't hear the bass, so please turn it up a little?"



Makes no sense.

I think Ed may have been jealous of Mike's fan connection as someone else said. I think this probably started pretty early on. I think that's why in interviews from 1982, he is talking smack about Mike.

Just cuz Ed was smilin' in the Jump video doesn't necessarily make him the happy go lucky, good-humored guitarist. If anything, it may make him a phony baloney. Ed you're better at guitar than Mike is at bass, Sam or Dave are at vocals, and even your brother is at drums. Okay? You're the star. You're the wizard. You're the namesake. Enough?

Ed's complaint of late about Mike is that he can't hear the bass. I don't get it. Can someone who is more musically trained than I explain why this would be Mike's fault? Wouldn't a producer or even Ed say, "Hey, I can't hear the bass, so please turn it up a little?"



Makes no sense.

It must have become too much after three decades of playing with the guy. Perhaps EVH's moonlighting with porno music gave him the sudden revelation.

Uh most NORMAL bands who grew up battling in the trenches to get famous give writing credit to all members. Only asshole egomaniacs don't. And nobody really knows how VH songs came together anyway.

Are you joking? First of all your ignorance REALLY shows. The Beatles, The Who, Led Zep, Black Sabbath, The Doors, The Police, Rush, The Stones, CCR, The Clash, (shall I go on?) DID NOT share writing credits as a band and that is simply because the band as a whole DID NOT write the material. One or two songwriters within those bands wrote 95% of everything, thus THEY are entitled to the SONGWRITING royalties. The fact VH agreed to split songwriting royalites (at the time) is a credit to Ed and Dave and their team spirit. However, fact is most members of a band who can't or don't write the music or lyrics understand their place and that they don't deserve credit for something they had no part in creating. DUH!

Are you joking? First of all your ignorance REALLY shows. The Beatles, The Who, Led Zep, Black Sabbath, The Doors, The Police, Rush, The Stones, CCR, The Clash, (shall I go on?) DID NOT share writing credits as a band and that is simply because the band as a whole DID NOT write the material. One or two songwriters within those bands wrote 95% of everything, thus THEY are entitled to the SONGWRITING royalties. The fact VH agreed to split songwriting royalites (at the time) is a credit to Ed and Dave and their team spirit. However, fact is most members of a band who can't or don't write the music or lyrics understand their place and that they don't deserve credit for something they had no part in creating. DUH!

HanValen, you are totally right. Brett is suggesting that you are an "egomaniac" if you write a song, and don’t give writing credit to someone who did not write the song, which is such a load of crap. I'm surprised Brett that you don’t feel entitled to own copyright to some Van Halen songs... I mean how inconsiderate of Ed not to include you in the credits?

And yeah, it is a REAL mystery how Van Halen songs come together, sometimes I don’t know who writes what because they all play such in equal part in it all. You know, Michael Anthony actually wrote the finger tapping progression at the end of Spanish Fly… or was it the insane acoustic shredding at the start…. I can never remember. :rolleyes:

Hmm...actually all Beatles songs, minus George's (and a few that are all four) are all Lennon/McCartney and we know full well John did not write "Yesterday." So while they didn't share all four, they did share the credits often times. And yes a lot of bands share equal writing credits, you've named some that haven't. Most do, and Van Halen did.

Ed is an egomaniac because everything that was fine years ago with all of a sudden isn't anymore. Now it's all HIS songs. He had no problem giving equal credit 20-25 years ago.

Calm down guys. So much anger.

Hmm...actually all Beatles songs, minus George's (and a few that are all four) are all Lennon/McCartney and we know full well John did not write "Yesterday." So while they didn't share all four, they did share the credits often times.

You are correct sir.

Lennon and McCartney agreed years ago that all their songs would be credited to both. Even though many songs were written individually and many songs were written by both "eyeball to eyeball".

Yesterday was McCartney's.

Come Together for example was Lennon.

Hmm...actually all Beatles songs, minus George's (and a few that are all four) are all Lennon/McCartney and we know full well John did not write "Yesterday." So while they didn't share all four, they did share the credits often times.

Firstly, that is a situation in which BOTH Lennon and McCartney would write songs (and some would be an individual effort from both sides) and both would share in the credits - that was the agreement. Just because Paul might have written all of Yesterday and given credit to John, doesn’t mean that he should give credit to Ringo and George, because as Bob_R pointed out, John wrote Come Together and gave credit to Paul - as per the agreement (because overall the partnership was designed to be pretty much an equal effort). Van Heln songs are NOT an equal effort between all 4 members. Most of it is Edward.

You've also gone back on your words by providing us with this Beatles example "So while they didn't share all four, they [2/4 members] did share the credits often times". You originally told us that "most NORMAL bands who grew up battling in the trenches to get famous give writing credit to ALL [not 2/4] members. Only asshole egomaniacs don't." Implying that songwriters who DONT give writing credit to ALL members are, as you said, "asshole egomaniacs".

And yes a lot of bands share equal writing credits, you've named some that haven't. Most do, and Van Halen did.

HanValen has listed probably the biggest rock bands in history (which you called "some") who haven’t shared equal writing credits. You haven’t supplied ANY significant names, yet you still say "Most bands do".

And finally...

Ed is an egomaniac because everything that was fine years ago with all of a sudden isn't anymore. Now it's all HIS songs. He had no problem giving equal credit 20-25 years ago.

They are HIS songs. He gave everyone credit to his songs in the 70s 80s and 90s because he was a nice guy. Not everyone in the band deserved credit for all the songs that he wrote but the fact the he did it is a credit to his character. And now with all that’s going on currently, does it make him an egomaniac if he regrets giving someone something they didn’t deserve? No.

You just made my point for me...Lennon/McCartney was an agreement. The agreement was they both got credit no matter who wrote the tune.

VH had the same agreement, they all four got credit. End of story.

And you're delusional if you think he put those songs together by himself. Last I checked Dave wrote all the lyrics, and you really have zero idea what went into the writing process of Van Halen, so stop claiming you do. None of us know. But what we do now is they absolutely had an agreement to share writing credit, between all four.

I don't need to supply bands that share credits, because it's a total moot point. The point is VH did and it was fine for a long time. And stop sucking Ed's dick every second, it doesn't make you a better fan....MMMMk?

To appease your whining, and because I don't feel like really looking around to see (this isn't as big of a deal to me as it is to you apparently), I'll take back the "most bands share credit" thing. Ok? It still doesn't change the rest of my argument.

They are HIS songs. He gave everyone credit to his songs in the 70s 80s and 90s because he was a nice guy. Not everyone in the band deserved credit for all the songs that he wrote but the fact the he did it is a credit to his character. And now with all that’s going on currently, does it make him an egomaniac if he regrets giving someone something they didn’t deserve? No.

They didn't deserve it? Are you certain of this?

Nope, you're not.

Ed's songs, regardless of the fact he wrote them, wouldn't have been jack shit without the input of three other guys and the songs' subsequent executions by the commensurate efforts of a uniquely distinct four piece band, each of its aspects contributing to the sum total of the final work of art.

Think Girl Gone Bad would've been equally as powerful without Dave's signature howl and growl, Mike's harmonies, Alex's snap and pop? The Full Bug? Hear About it Later? Who is to say credit should be limited to the initial scoring?

Van Halen is a composite entity, not Team Eddie.

Christ, but some of you are dense. ED IS NOT, HAS NEVER BEEN, A SOLO ARTIST, nor would he, given evidence to date, be a very good one.

They didn't deserve it? Are you certain of this?

Nope, you're not.

Ed's songs, regardless of the fact he wrote them, wouldn't have been jack shit without the input of three other guys and the songs' subsequent executions by the commensurate efforts of a uniquely distinct four piece band, each of its aspects contributing to the sum total of the final work of art.

Think Girl Gone Bad would've been equally as powerful without Dave's signature howl and growl, Mike's harmonies, Alex's snap and pop? The Full Bug? Hear About it Later? Who is to say credit should be limited to the initial scoring?

Van Halen is a composite entity, not Team Eddie.

Christ, but some of you are dense. ED IS NOT, HAS NEVER BEEN, A SOLO ARTIST, nor would he, given evidence to date, be a very good one.

I agree with this 100%. Ed tried going at it alone. We all know what came of that - Van Halen III, an album of some cool riffs and sounds, but no actual "songs". Ed playing drums and bass on that one? Quite possible. I don't hear Al's sound, but for a couple of tunes. Mike's bass? The album is even missing the proper amount of Mike's backing vocals. Geez no wonder it sucked. I'll give this to Ed...he still gave all four writing credits on that one...so not only is he an ass...he really just doesn't make much sense, ol' Ed.

cmon, all the Ed bashing is gettin old.

We all know Ed wrote the friggin music and Dave wrote the friggin Lyrics.Always been that way, always will. As for arranging the music into coherent songs, the producer and engineer would have a hand in that, mr.Templeman,mr,Landee ty, and they dont get writing credits.

As for ed's "solo" project, VHIII, there aint nothing wrong with the music, which is also the first time Ed ever wrote music to existing lyrics. If it was the Ed solo show, he wouldve written the music first, as his normal routine, and the lyrics would've had to fit in.

The point is that when a band starts out together, everyone is a team. In the 2 bands i was in, we would come to practice with song ideas and work as a group to hash it into something we liked, usually a collaborative effort. In that case, what is the value of the original idea/melody/progression vs. the rest of the group helping advance it? Who would get writing/publishing credits??
To me, we'd share em unless it got to a point where noone else ever came up with stuff to begin with..at some point, you'd draw the line.

For my money, that is what happened in VH. Ed wrote the music, Mike may have made some contribution and Ed was increasingly dissappointed in that, so he started crafting his bass suggestions to fit his amazng guitar lines.
After a while, its not unreasonable to think it could get old fast, with all the pressure, etc..its not unreasonable to suggest this as an evolution in VH songwriting history, as it relates to credits.

After a while, its not unreasonable to think it could get old fast, with all the pressure, etc..its not unreasonable to suggest this as an evolution in VH songwriting history, as it relates to credits.

De-evolution of songwriting, rather. Less product, and the small amount of product that's come out, less worthy.

You can't really say III, It's About Time, Catherine, and Rise are superior efforts over Mean Street, Simple Rhyme, Judgment Day, or Summer Nights, unless you're one skewed and unreasonable mutha. ;)

It's just the way it is.

Brett, wow, way to really address my argument. I’m impressed that you didn’t resort to childish verbal abuse.

And stop sucking Ed's dick every second, it doesn't make you a better fan....MMMMk?

Brett, emperor of VHLinks, how can I be a better fan than you? I’m just trying to put this whole “Ed is an asshole” thing in perspective.

To appease your whining, and because I don't feel like really looking around to see (this isn't as big of a deal to me as it is to you apparently), I'll take back the "most bands share credit" thing. Ok?

It’s good to know that you are gracious in your withdrawal of comments too.

It still doesn't change the rest of my argument.

Well let’s take a look at what’s left of your argument.

You just made my point for me...Lennon/McCartney was an agreement. The agreement was they both got credit no matter who wrote the tune.

VH had the same agreement, they all four got credit. End of story.

I’m not denying they had an agreement to all get credit for the songs. My point is the fact they made that agreement is a credit to Edward’s character, and as I said before, not all of them deserved that agreement to share in equal writing credit, but Ed did it nonetheless.

And you're delusional if you think he put those songs together by himself. Last I checked Dave wrote all the lyrics, and you really have zero idea what went into the writing process of Van Halen, so stop claiming you do. None of us know.

So really with everything else out of the way, what this argument comes down to is what you just mentioned: DID ALL 4 MEMBERS DESERVE EQUAL WRITING CREDIT?
If so, then Ed is in fact being an egomaniac by regretting the agreement that the other 3 own equal copyright to supposedly “his” songs – and therefore you are correct.
If not, Ed’s regret for the agreement is justified – and therefore I am correct.

Now VanSqualen’s flawed comment:
“Ed's songs, regardless of the fact he wrote them, wouldn't have been jack shit without the input of three other guys and the songs' subsequent executions by the commensurate efforts of a uniquely distinct four piece band, each of its aspects contributing to the sum total of the final work of art.”

This has unintentionally proved my point for me. VanSqualen said it himself “Ed wrote them”. Many of you are confusing credit for musical/performance/recording input with credit for the writing of the actual song. I’m not denying Alex, Mike, + Xsinger didn’t deserve what equal credit they got for creating an album, and their performance did all contribute as a band (and roughly equally) to the “sum total of the final work of art”. HOWEVER, the question is did all 4 members deserve equal WRITING credit. Not their great contributions to the albums, but to the writing of the songs themselves.

Who is to say credit should be limited to the initial scoring?

Well I’m pretty sure that COPYRIGHT LAW is to say that writing credit should be limited to the scoring.

Now back to Brett…
Last I checked Dave wrote all the lyrics, and you really have zero idea what went into the writing process of Van Halen, so stop claiming you do. None of us know.

I’m not denying Dave wrote some nice poems about girls. In that instance he SHOULD be some part of the writing credits. HOWEVER, my main issue is Ed giving equal credit to Michael Anthony and Alex Van Halen who clearly did not
contribute much to the writing of songs. Really, I have zero idea about the VH writing process? None of us know?

“GP: When your band is putting together new material, do you work on both words and music?

EVH: No. Dave writes a majority of the lyrics and I write the music.”

"The Inside: I interviewed Nuno when his record came out and he said he felt VH was making you sound like a young Sammy Hagar?

GC: He actually came up to the studio while were were recording songs like "Fire in the Hole" and "Ballot or the Bullet" and all the heavy stuff. He came up to me and said, "They're pushing your range." I said, "Yeah, it reminds me of you and me ten years ago when you were writing in the keys that you liked rather than the keys the singer could sing in." That's basically what was happening. Eddie was writing and I didn't want to complain. I wanted to be able to do what he wanted."

That’s just 2 from this site.

Even without these quotes you don’t have to be a genius to figure out who wrote most of the stuff. Alex playing drums to a song is not part of writing a song. Mike staying on the same root note for the whole song is not a contribution to the writing of a song. I’m not denying that Dave wrote lyrics to VH songs (even though that’s not very musical, more poetry) so congrats, he can have some credit if he wants, but take a look at VanSqualen’s example of “Girl Gone Bad”. VanSqualen mentions shrieks and howls of DLR… which is not part of writing a song, they are just vocal ‘gymnastics’ if you can call it that (which would be the equivalent of Ed doing a dive bomb on “Beat It” and claiming copyright – which he actually did much more and STILL dodnt claim copyright, and furthermore did it for FREE). What DLR would contribute which IS part of writing a song is the vocal melody (and there are a number of VH songs with some really cool vocal melodies). But for example look at GGG…. The vocal melody is playing the melody note Ed is playing in his chords! You also don’t have to be a genius to work out who wrote Eruption, Spanish Fly, Cathedral, 316 etc. So if playing drums doesn’t count in writing a song, and Michael Anthony doesn’t count in writing songs because all he does is follow whatever riffs Ed has come up with on the guitar by holding a root note for the whole song…. that only leaves the singer, which yes wrote the lyrics and had at times played a part in the melody. That’s at the most 2/4 members… not all 4 members with EQUAL WRITING CREDIT.


Christ, but some of you are dense. ED IS NOT, HAS NEVER BEEN, A SOLO ARTIST,

No sir, it is you who is dense. Just because I suggest that he is the primary songwriter for a band does not mean he is a “solo artist”. As HanValen listed, there are plenty of major rock bands who have primary songwriters but are still part of a band effort.

Now lastly, I should just say that whether or not you think Ed’s writing has deteriorated, (or whether or not you like his recent stuff - which is just a matter of personal taste… not “aw man it sucked” – you obviously must be right if YOU say it sucks) it still doesn’t change the fact that he still gave equal copyright royalties to the rest of the band on an Album like VHIII where the writing was as you said mostly Edward, and therefore he gave royalties to the band who didn’t deserve equal credit.

Therefore since all 4 members did not fully deserve equal writing credit, then Ed’s regret for their agreement is justified.

Brett, wow, way to really address my argument. I’m impressed that you didn’t resort to childish verbal abuse.

Dude, calm the hell down. You're making this a heated argument over semantics.

The big picture argument is that Ed, in his more recent language, is diminishing the input of the other former band members. Ed's solo bits, the three new BOBW songs, and the III album, despite all having some fine musical moments, are not of the same caliber as the music he produced and peformed alongside Van Halen the band as recently as 1996--a point where VH was still more of a collaborative effort.

Talking down about the roles former members played is in poor taste. If he can back it up with music that blows the old stuff away (or at least equals it), I'm sure it'll make some of the fans back off a bit. Until then...

Ed's complaint of late about Mike is that he can't hear the bass. I don't get it. Can someone who is more musically trained than I explain why this would be Mike's fault? Wouldn't a producer or even Ed say, "Hey, I can't hear the bass, so please turn it up a little?"

That goddamn fake interview is never going to go away.

The Ed comment you're referring to was part of that fake interview. It duped a lot of us--and some press folks. Ed never said the bit about not being able to hear the bass.

Ether you're way angry over nothing. I already said my peace, you don't agree with me fine. Point is the agreement was all four got credit. Why that changed is anyone's guess. Move on.

That goddamn fake interview is never going to go away.

The Ed comment you're referring to was part of that fake interview. It duped a lot of us--and some press folks. Ed never said the bit about not being able to hear the bass.

No he actually says it in an article I read from way back...I think it's from Guitar World and it's where he talks about what he likes about each album. He said on 5150 and 0u812, he can't hear Mike's bass.

No he actually says it in an article I read from way back...I think it's from Guitar World and it's where he talks about what he likes about each album. He said on 5150 and 0u812, he can't hear Mike's bass.

Gotcha. That's maybe where the author of the fake interview got it from then.

VH let Donn Landee go after OU812 because they wanted a heavier sound. And one can indeed hear Mike's bass on FUCK and Balance.

I didn't notice a new mike only forum. Move this thread there if you guys can. thnaks.

Hey, i didn't notice that EVH is a drunken fool. Delete this thread if you guys can.

Odd note here, about Mikey....

I work at an Auto Parts store, I run the high-performance/speed parts corner. Somehow or another, VH came up in a conversation between myself and co-workers. I was rattling off what little I knew about the band, and some guy walks up, and asks if we were talking about VH....and begins to tell his story.
I don't remember his name, but this guy supposedly had something to do with stage lighting while on tour, and spent most of the 1970's, 1980's, and 1990's with the band, with him leaving after the 1996 Dave fiasco, and moving up to Oregon to be close to his parents. Gave incredible details of the inside of 5150, how tall everyone was, detail after detail....We just sat there, listening to the guy(dead evening, no customers except for one or two), the guy went on for over two hours....his take on various VH developments, and concerning mikey:

1. Dave wanted Mikey out, in the 1970's, after they became popular. Why? Dave's ego was running rampant, and Dave wanted someone more 'pretty' for the bassist position. Mike's short size and square head didn't fit Dave's version of what a proper bass player should look like. However, fan support was too strong for Mike...and he remained in. I know Dave has mentioned at times that he 'loved' Mikey, but according to my mystery guest, Dave was definitely trying to get him replaced early on.

1. Sammy Hagar. Completely a record company move. Dave wanted to go solo, so his name would be headlining...but record execs wanted the VH cash train to continue rolling, so Hagar was ushered in BEFORE the split happened, agreements made, and the labels are now making twice as much money, as loyal VH fans buy both VH and Dave LP's.

2. Gary Cherone. Supposedly, whoever was managing VH at the time has Gary Cherone as a brother-in-law/married to Gary Cherone's sister. Ed was seriously burned out with Sammy (he was turning into another Dave, concerning his ego), and it was 'suggested' that Gary replace Sammy....this was all before the Dave "greatest hits" fiasco....they never had the intention of doing any more tours with Dave, they simply used him to sell a "greatest hits" album, and kicked him to the curb after the release. Gary Cherone became the lead...and the rest is history.

Please note: I don't know what to believe at this point, I am simply parroting what I was told. Listening to him explaining that almost everything that occurs in VH is primarily a management decision, there may actually be a management reason as to why the proposed tour was cancelled. I am beginning to think that after the 2004 joke of a tour, someone in the upper echeleon did some research, and discovered that nobody wanted to pay $100-$200+ to see these people play anymore. I think that might be why we are never again going to see a 'tour' from VH.

Hmmm lot of emotion for such a non-controversial subject.

There's variation across the board on many "famous" bands on songwriting credits. But credits don't exactly come truthful on the full contribution to song writing.

Sure one or two guys can lay out the basic structure and melody for a tune. But in most cases it's the finished recorded version that IMO truely represents the end product. In that case all contributors should be credited.

In VH's case Ed didn't sit down and scribe every bass note and drum thump for a song. Dave probably didn't write every word and sure as hell didn't come up with every melody. Bits and pieces that make most VH's songs (recorded versions) are really a full band contribution. I believe it was fair and proper that all 4 members got full writing credit.

In many ways George Martin should have been credited for a lot of Beatles song writing. Sure Paul and John showed up with a guitar or piano piece with some lyrics. But what started as the base usually ended up far far removed in the final product. It wasn't John/Paul that did it all.

Odd note here, about Mikey....

I work at an Auto Parts store, I run the high-performance/speed parts corner. Somehow or another, VH came up in a conversation between myself and co-workers. I was rattling off what little I knew about the band, and some guy walks up, and asks if we were talking about VH....and begins to tell his story.
I don't remember his name, but this guy supposedly had something to do with stage lighting while on tour, and spent most of the 1970's, 1980's, and 1990's with the band, with him leaving after the 1996 Dave fiasco, and moving up to Oregon to be close to his parents. Gave incredible details of the inside of 5150, how tall everyone was, detail after detail....We just sat there, listening to the guy(dead evening, no customers except for one or two), the guy went on for over two hours....his take on various VH developments, and concerning mikey:

1. Dave wanted Mikey out, in the 1970's, after they became popular. Why? Dave's ego was running rampant, and Dave wanted someone more 'pretty' for the bassist position. Mike's short size and square head didn't fit Dave's version of what a proper bass player should look like. However, fan support was too strong for Mike...and he remained in. I know Dave has mentioned at times that he 'loved' Mikey, but according to my mystery guest, Dave was definitely trying to get him replaced early on.

1. Sammy Hagar. Completely a record company move. Dave wanted to go solo, so his name would be headlining...but record execs wanted the VH cash train to continue rolling, so Hagar was ushered in BEFORE the split happened, agreements made, and the labels are now making twice as much money, as loyal VH fans buy both VH and Dave LP's.

2. Gary Cherone. Supposedly, whoever was managing VH at the time has Gary Cherone as a brother-in-law/married to Gary Cherone's sister. Ed was seriously burned out with Sammy (he was turning into another Dave, concerning his ego), and it was 'suggested' that Gary replace Sammy....this was all before the Dave "greatest hits" fiasco....they never had the intention of doing any more tours with Dave, they simply used him to sell a "greatest hits" album, and kicked him to the curb after the release. Gary Cherone became the lead...and the rest is history.

Please note: I don't know what to believe at this point, I am simply parroting what I was told. Listening to him explaining that almost everything that occurs in VH is primarily a management decision, there may actually be a management reason as to why the proposed tour was cancelled. I am beginning to think that after the 2004 joke of a tour, someone in the upper echeleon did some research, and discovered that nobody wanted to pay $100-$200+ to see these people play anymore. I think that might be why we are never again going to see a 'tour' from VH.

If you can recall any of the other details (how tall the guys are, the inside of 5150, etc.), please do tell.

If you can recall any of the other details (how tall the guys are, the inside of 5150, etc.), please do tell.

It's amazing what you can learn at the auto parts store, huh?

Hey, i didn't notice that EVH is a drunken fool. Delete this thread if you guys can.

wow, you're a dick. did you read the part where it said I was bored and tired when I typed up this "not to be taken seriously" thread?

Good story from the auto parts store but not a lot of new info. If the guy talked for 2 hours maybe there are some things you left out?

Thanks

Uh most NORMAL bands who grew up battling in the trenches to get famous give writing credit to all members. Only asshole egomaniacs don't. And nobody really knows how VH songs came together anyway.

I don't know about that Brett....The music industry has tons of examples of individuals who have complete writing credit for songs they've contributed to their bands. Duane Allman, Gregg Allman, Dickey Betts, Warren Haynes, Eric Clapton, John Fogerty, Roger Waters, David Gilmore, John Lennon, Mcartney, etc.....Now, have these ownership arrangements led to future problems for some of these bands? Absolutely! VH is certainly not alone in that category. Sometimes we fans of all things Van Halen forget that about the music business. We think the world views it as some sort of soap opera. Well bullshit, many hugely successful bands weather this storm at some point.

I have read that Ed played a lot of the bass tracks on the old VH albums too but who knows the truth? Back in the day in articles VH would say they'd record most of it live and Ed would only overdub some guitar parts and solos. That would suggest Mike played it all.
*shrug*


No way was MS a leech. How can you even consider that? It has come out that ED wanted to replace MA since back in the day because MA wasn't at the same level of talent and in a way held back or limited what was possible musically. I'm not sure I buy that 100% either.

Either way MA has been a rock in VH since they started out. I've never met the guy but have read many times how down to earth and approachable he is. One of the most humble members of the bad who has always been cool to the fans. His Vocals have become a part of the VH sound as is his presence in the band and on stage.

I think as ED has gotten older he's become more of a control freak and in some ways has become petty. The problems he's had with Sam and Mike are just immature imo. Sure EVH IS VH. withought Ed there is no band but you can't erase what the other members have added to the chemistry. Theyre blood and sweat invested into the band. Any standup guy would let his bass player plug his little hot sauce after being in the band over 25 years. I love Ed but if that and the "Other Half" is the main reason Mike is out then Ed is out of control in that regard. Mike has been a good soldier all these years putting up with a lot of BS and defneding most of the bizarre decisions of Ed's and he can't sell hot sauce? Ed's the man but he needs to be more spiritual and less drunk. Hurts to say it but it's true.

Very well said

That really is a harsh interview from Ed way back when. A tough read.

For those who criticize MA...what else is he supposed to do on the bass w/all that going on between Ed and Al? The only other bassplayer I could ever see jamming in that band would be Dust Hill, for instance.

That really is a harsh interview from Ed way back when. A tough read.

For those who criticize MA...what else is he supposed to do on the bass w/all that going on between Ed and Al? The only other bassplayer I could ever see jamming in that band would be Dust Hill, for instance.

First of all, I like Mike, think his playing is perfect for Van Halen. But there are many Bass players who can more than hold their own with ANY guitarist/ drummer. Barry Oakley from the Allman Brothers Band for instance more then held his own playing between the great Duane Allman and Dickey Betts, and two great drummers (Butch Trucks and Jamoie). Mike just isn't on the same level. Is he absolutely essential to the VH sound? No doubt...

I can dig it. :cool:

Uh most NORMAL bands who grew up battling in the trenches to get famous give writing credit to all members. Only asshole egomaniacs don't. And nobody really knows how VH songs came together anyway.

BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZT.

Where do you come up with that? If anything I've always been a little miffed at Eddie for being so generous. One thing about other bands and thier writing credits is that it really showed who done what. Eddie's generosity in the end was an injustice to himself and to all of us who wonder about the process. Egomaniac? It's really sad how things get twisted so.