Is there something that folks find strange regarding the recent interviews with Sam?

Some things have already been pointed out (Azoff was the manager so Hagar must've agreed to the ticket prices etc etc), however this backbiting to Ed is beginning to hack me off.......

Baring in mind that Ed's songwriting / talent has allowed a mediocre/poor singer but great frontman & a good singer/OK frontman live a life that they must thank god every day........if Sam has got so much to say about the guy that provided the foundation for him to own Cabo, get sponsorship deals with Washburn etc (cause they sure as hell wouldn't have done it without the Ed association) - why don't he take these points out man to man with Ed? He says he doesn't need it - but does a FRIEND just walk away....

Secondly - if Ed is such a miserable sod, where is the evidence? I've just watched the Greensboro boot and Ed looks happier than hell. By all accounts, during the tour he was more concerned with having a good time rather than concentrating on his fretboard......the two dorks interviews don't exactly portray a miserable git do they?

On another point - I heard a boot of one of the soundchecks..........jesus Ed's playing was sooooo good - he looks really bored to me during the worn out stuff in the 2004 tour......in SGMAD, the new toons, Unchained etc his playing rocks.

I don't know...I like Sam but this airinig grievances about Ed is not good - even out of respect for what he has provided for Sam..

Well said. I couldnt agree more

The ghost of Ed Leffler is sitting there shaking his head about all this. Seriously, the guys in VH have become whiny and a bunch of pussies. They needa grow and give me some friggin' music! Argh, I been nice enough, I'm feelin' a little selfish right now. I just listened to Learning to See. Damn it, give me another one of those.

Is there something that folks find strange regarding the recent interviews with Sam?

Some things have already been pointed out (Azoff was the manager so Hagar must've agreed to the ticket prices etc etc), however this backbiting to Ed is beginning to hack me off.......

Baring in mind that Ed's songwriting / talent has allowed a mediocre/poor singer but great frontman & a good singer/OK frontman live a life that they must thank god every day........if Sam has got so much to say about the guy that provided the foundation for him to own Cabo, get sponsorship deals with Washburn etc (cause they sure as hell wouldn't have done it without the Ed association) - why don't he take these points out man to man with Ed? He says he doesn't need it - but does a FRIEND just walk away....

Secondly - if Ed is such a miserable sod, where is the evidence? I've just watched the Greensboro boot and Ed looks happier than hell. By all accounts, during the tour he was more concerned with having a good time rather than concentrating on his fretboard......the two dorks interviews don't exactly portray a miserable git do they?

On another point - I heard a boot of one of the soundchecks..........jesus Ed's playing was sooooo good - he looks really bored to me during the worn out stuff in the 2004 tour......in SGMAD, the new toons, Unchained etc his playing rocks.

I don't know...I like Sam but this airinig grievances about Ed is not good - even out of respect for what he has provided for Sam..

About the front men, it's all about the uniqueness. Sure Dave had a poor singing voice but it was unique and it sounded cool. If you think about it, as amazing a guitar player Eddie is if it weren't for Dave's antics on stage and with the press Ed probably wouldn't have been that recognized as he was and is. Ed wanted to be a musician, not a rock star. David Lee Roth made them rock stars. Now Sammy on the other hand has a great rock voice, but he also has a very good range. Listen to songs like Dreams and Love Walks In then listen to Don't Tell Me. Also Sam is a OK front man? Sammy just approaches a live show differently than Dave. Sammy wants it to be a party fo everyones. And Dave thinks he, and he alone, is the party. Sam also knew about Cabo way before Van Halen. He just came up with Cabo Wabo while being in Cabo writing for 0U812.

if Ed is such a miserable sod, where is the evidence?

Sure Ed looked really happy on stage in Greensboro and every show after that. But Ed also looked happy during the Balance tour when all hell was breaking loose according to Sammy. IT is easy for these guys to go out and put a smile on. That's their job. I'm not saying it's right but I'm sure their were many nights last tour when these guys didn't want to play.

On another point - I heard a boot of one of the soundchecks..........jesus Ed's playing was sooooo good - he looks really bored to me during the worn out stuff in the 2004 tour......in SGMAD, the new toons, Unchained etc his playing rocks.

Ed played great in every soundcheck from what I have read. Even in Tuscan, on the last night, he played I'm the One great at soundcheck. But then what happened during the show. Sure he played great during the soundchecks but only 70 people get to see those.

Sam has also helped Eddie out too. Sam actually was a friend to Eddie unlike Dave where Dave was just a member of the band.

However, I do agree with the ticket prices and Sammy's management. I think that Sammy knew about it and he just went along with it.

Just my opinion. I'm not bashing Ed in anyway by what I have said here also.

About the front men, it's all about the uniqueness. Sure Dave had a poor singing voice but it was unique and it sounded cool. If you think about it, as amazing a guitar player Eddie is if it weren't for Dave's antics on stage and with the press Ed probably wouldn't have been that recognized as he was and is. Ed wanted to be a musician, not a rock star. David Lee Roth made them rock stars. Now Sammy on the other hand has a great rock voice, but he also has a very good range. Listen to songs like Dreams and Love Walks In then listen to Don't Tell Me. Also Sam is a OK front man? Sammy just approaches a live show differently than Dave. Sammy wants it to be a party fo everyones. And Dave thinks he, and he alone, is the party. Sam also knew about Cabo way before Van Halen. He just came up with Cabo Wabo while being in Cabo writing for 0U812.



Sure Ed looked really happy on stage in Greensboro and every show after that. But Ed also looked happy during the Balance tour when all hell was breaking loose according to Sammy. IT is easy for these guys to go out and put a smile on. That's their job. I'm not saying it's right but I'm sure their were many nights last tour when these guys didn't want to play.



Ed played great in every soundcheck from what I have read. Even in Tuscan, on the last night, he played I'm the One great at soundcheck. But then what happened during the show. Sure he played great during the soundchecks but only 70 people get to see those.

Sam has also helped Eddie out too. Sam actually was a friend to Eddie unlike Dave where Dave was just a member of the band.

However, I do agree with the ticket prices and Sammy's management. I think that Sammy knew about it and he just went along with it.

Just my opinion. I'm not bashing Ed in anyway by what I have said here also.


Mate - the points I made about the singers were taking things to the extremes for the point of this discussion really.......Sams got a great voice and is a good frontman - no doubt about that, and Dave was an incredible frontman who I also think had such a great quality to his voice ('til I saw him on Skyscraper tour and...well...it sucked).

I just really don't think that the way to get Ed to change (if that really is the motivation) is the way to go. Lock yourself away for a couple of days and thrash it out - things would be so much better, not in public - face to face.

Good post tho dude...

a mediocre/poor singer but great frontman

Jeez, are you listening to the same 6 albums as I am? David Lee Roth was a great singer in the studio for the first 6 records. He may suck today, he may have sucked live then, but cmon?

He was a great singer from 78-84. At least give the man credit for that.

Jeez, are you listening to the same 6 albums as I am? David Lee Roth was a great singer in the studio for the first 6 records. He may suck today, he may have sucked live then, but cmon?

He was a great singer from 78-84. At least give the man credit for that.

Hey nobody can touch Dave's work from that time period.

I thought he was awesome live!!!!

The music speaks for itself, IMO. :thumb:

Hey nobody can touch Dave's work from that time period.

I thought he was awesome live!!!!

The music speaks for itself, IMO. :thumb:


OK - How can someone be a called a great singer but suck when singing live? Surely the definition of a great singer is someone who sounds great live, not sucks?

I can think of one boot where Dave sounded OK live (Not great....just OK) and that was the mixing desk boot from Pasadena 77. As most of us have - I have hundreds of bootlegs and realistically most of us know that Dave ain't about how 'great' his voice is/was....it's about the way his 'singing' and Ed's playing made us feel - that don't make his voice great, his attitude is but his voice ain't. Let's face it,,,,the exiting thing about VH with Dave was that we all knew it was a potential train wreck that was barely held together - but we all had to get on for the ride....Dave encapsulated that - but it don't make him a great singer....frontman yes / singer no.

OK - How can someone be a called a great singer but suck when singing live? Surely the definition of a great singer is someone who sounds great live, not sucks?

I can think of one boot where Dave sounded OK live (Not great....just OK) and that was the mixing desk boot from Pasadena 77. As most of us have - I have hundreds of bootlegs and realistically most of us know that Dave ain't about how 'great' his voice is/was....it's about the way his 'singing' and Ed's playing made us feel - that don't make his voice great, his attitude is but his voice ain't. Let's face it,,,,the exiting thing about VH with Dave was that we all knew it was a potential train wreck that was barely held together - but we all had to get on for the ride....Dave encapsulated that - but it don't make him a great singer....frontman yes / singer no.

An album is the recorded document a band leaves behind, not some bootlegged recording made by some guy with a Radio Shack tape recorder under his coat. Dave's voice was perfect for those 6 albums, I doubt anyone listens to them and thinks "I wish he sang better."

Historically when anyone in any genre is being judged on their voice it is the recordings they produced that are evaluated.

At which point did I say that Dave wasn't perfect for those 6 albums and wasn't perfect for VH, that his singing should have been better blah blah blah?

Answer - I didn't. Just because he was perfect for those albums, that does not make him a great singer.

Those screams he does on Atomic Punk may be perfect to you, once again this doesn't make him a great singer.

So - cutting it in a studio is what makes a singer great......jeez - I always thought Britney sucked as she can't sing live, hey but as her albums sound great...she must be the best! All this time I've been wrong.....

At which point did I say that Dave wasn't perfect for those 6 albums and wasn't perfect for VH, that his singing should have been better blah blah blah?

Answer - I didn't. Just because he was perfect for those albums, that does not make him a great singer.

Those screams he does on Atomic Punk may be perfect to you, once again this doesn't make him a great singer.

So - cutting it in a studio is what makes a singer great......jeez - I always thought Britney sucked as she can't sing live, hey but as her albums sound great...she must be the best! All this time I've been wrong.....

I'm sorry, but while we're on the topic of reading comprehension, when did I say that Dave was a "great" singer? I simply said it's better to evaluate someone by the recorded product they put out, then 25 year old bootlegs. I don't think VH needed or wanted a "great" singer, I'm sure no one asked Dave if he got an "A" in chorus. The point that I was making was that Dave was not in fact a poor/mediocre singer like you said, at least not in that time period.

As for Britney, I'm sorry if her live shows didn't measure up to the albums you think are great. I usually watch her videos with the volume off myself.

Is there something that folks find strange regarding the recent interviews with Sam?

Some things have already been pointed out (Azoff was the manager so Hagar must've agreed to the ticket prices etc etc), however this backbiting to Ed is beginning to hack me off.......

Baring in mind that Ed's songwriting / talent has allowed a mediocre/poor singer but great frontman & a good singer/OK frontman live a life that they must thank god every day........if Sam has got so much to say about the guy that provided the foundation for him to own Cabo, get sponsorship deals with Washburn etc (cause they sure as hell wouldn't have done it without the Ed association) - why don't he take these points out man to man with Ed? He says he doesn't need it - but does a FRIEND just walk away....

Secondly - if Ed is such a miserable sod, where is the evidence? I've just watched the Greensboro boot and Ed looks happier than hell. By all accounts, during the tour he was more concerned with having a good time rather than concentrating on his fretboard......the two dorks interviews don't exactly portray a miserable git do they?

On another point - I heard a boot of one of the soundchecks..........jesus Ed's playing was sooooo good - he looks really bored to me during the worn out stuff in the 2004 tour......in SGMAD, the new toons, Unchained etc his playing rocks.

I don't know...I like Sam but this airinig grievances about Ed is not good - even out of respect for what he has provided for Sam..

What a crock a' shit, dude. Come on, stop defending Ed and accept it. Eddies has changed. Listen to any of his interviews before 2000 and he is humble, excited and happy. These days, he's miserable, cocky and I for one am thankful that I don't have to work with him.

Ed is the catalyst to VH, he knows and the fans know it. He is about the most dysfunctional bastard! Communicate with your fans. They/we made him. If you are taking a break, fine, communicate this. If you are finished with Van Halen, fine, it's closure for everyone, but don't act like we don't exist.

To say Sammy is a poor singer is a little much. I don't think he's the best singer out there, but he has range. You almost make it sound like Eddie made Sammy. Not even close. Sammy is the the kind of guy that is down to earth, open and knows what he wants. Ed and Al are hermits who were once legends. If anything VH made DLR. Now he's just a shell of poor singer, good frontman, interviewing to be a DJ.

If you want to get tired of something, get tired of Ed's lack of playing because he has a lead singer-sized chip on his shoulder. Where's the evidence? Ed has no wife, holely clothes, no tour, no lead singer and apparently no band.

Eddie may be miserable, and he just may have all these problems that everyone seems to believe...but it's still pretty shady for Sam to even air that kind of thing. I'm sorry, just not what a bud would do. Same goes for Mikey.

btw, Brand X I totally agree with the ticket deal. Sam brought in *his* manager, not the other way around, so I don't get his beef all of a sudden.

I just really don't think that the way to get Ed to change (if that really is the motivation) is the way to go. Lock yourself away for a couple of days and thrash it out - things would be so much better, not in public - face to face.


I agree that all this publicity should be avoided like if Sam has something to say he should say something to Ed. Stop making matters worse.

Is there something that folks find strange regarding the recent interviews with Sam?

Some things have already been pointed out (Azoff was the manager so Hagar must've agreed to the ticket prices etc etc), however this backbiting to Ed is beginning to hack me off.......

Baring in mind that Ed's songwriting / talent has allowed a mediocre/poor singer but great frontman & a good singer/OK frontman live a life that they must thank god every day........if Sam has got so much to say about the guy that provided the foundation for him to own Cabo, get sponsorship deals with Washburn etc (cause they sure as hell wouldn't have done it without the Ed association) - why don't he take these points out man to man with Ed? He says he doesn't need it - but does a FRIEND just walk away....

Secondly - if Ed is such a miserable sod, where is the evidence? I've just watched the Greensboro boot and Ed looks happier than hell. By all accounts, during the tour he was more concerned with having a good time rather than concentrating on his fretboard......the two dorks interviews don't exactly portray a miserable git do they?

On another point - I heard a boot of one of the soundchecks..........jesus Ed's playing was sooooo good - he looks really bored to me during the worn out stuff in the 2004 tour......in SGMAD, the new toons, Unchained etc his playing rocks.

I don't know...I like Sam but this airinig grievances about Ed is not good - even out of respect for what he has provided for Sam..


What Ed did for Sam? Exactly what has Ed done post DLR that amounted to anything WITHOUT Sammy? Sam had a successful solo career before Van Halen and has one now. Roth had a nice solo run in the 80's and is still touring a little. I'm sorry exactly what has Ed accomplished on his own again?

NADA.

Ed would have been a hermit for the last 20 years instead of the last 10 if weren't for Sammy. Its time to face the facts. Ed is a great player when reasonably sober but in terms of the commercial / financial success he has enjoyed he owes EVERYTHING to Roth, Hagar and to some extent Ed Leffler

I'm sorry exactly what has Ed accomplished on his own again?

NADA.

Its time to face the facts. Ed is a great player when reasonably sober but in terms of the commercial / financial success he has enjoyed he owes EVERYTHING to Roth, Hagar and to some extent Ed Leffler

Nice thoughts dude. Ed is a follower not a leader. That's why we'll never see anything solo from him.

Sammy even said when he first joined the band that they were all standing around and had no clue what to do without Roth.

EVH was having a good time in Greensboro. He also looked a bit drunk, and his playing wasn't that good. I was there, and thought that at the time, as well as after listening to the boot.

I'm sure they were all okay at the FIRST SHOW. Sammy is talking about how things were after 80 SHOWS, not the first freaking show.
What kind of pinhead would look to the first show as evidence that Sam wasn't telling the truth?

Face it: Everybody knows that EVH was the main problem, and has been the whole time. None of the other guys are little angels, either, but Van Halen starts and ends with Eddie at this time.
If he isn't up to par, personally-not his playing, then VH is probably not going to be doing any touring with either of the first two singers any time in the foreseeable future.

Brand X, you aren't being realistic. How many years did the whole band put up with Eddie's drinking? And since Dave left, and he was supposedly the whole reason Eddie was miserable, how long were they "happy" with Sammy?
Definitely, things weren't great by F.U.C.K., and according to Eddie, even by OU812.
Difference? Ed Leffler.

Now what do we have? Eddie with control. And he absolutely, positively cannot handle it. He has no business being in control. He needs someone to do exactly what he complained about Dave (mostly) and even Sammy doing.
Telling him what to do.
I think that Sammy probably did it in a more friendly manner, as opposed to Dave, that's the only difference.
And he is also a drunk.
His brother, who is supposedly the "brains" of the operation, evidently has little influence over him, so what the hell is Sammy or Dave supposed to do at this point?
Based on the way I saw Eddie acting the two times I saw them last year, the way that many others reported he acted, and what was in the news, I think it's pretty safe to say that Sammy is pretty much telling the truth about things.

As to the voices: DLR and SH both had great rock voices period.

As to the Frontman: DLR and SH are both great frontmen. They are different people but I think they are both incredible performers. W/ Sam it's more of a party w/ dave it's more of an event... just different.

As for the nutjob: I hope he finds his bottom and bounces back. I've seen people bounce back from substance problems and become themselves again.

Why is Sam talking? He has to! I don't know how many of you have ever been interviewed by media, but they're going to ask the obvious questions. And a question that Sam is going to get right now is about VH and Ed... the media has heard all the same reports about Ed's mental state so they're going to ask Sam about it. If Sam wants to be able to talk about the Wabo's, etc... he has to address the ed situation. Face it, Eddie Van Halen is a rock icon, and you can't get away with no comment regarding an icon... if it was Mikey or Al that had the problems, Sam could gloss over it... but not with Ed. Can Slash ever do an interview without an Axl question? Can one of the Jacksons not talk about their pedofile brother? Can the ex-nirvana guys not talk about Kurt Cobain? Sam has to talk about this stuff... so stop blaming him because Ed is the one with the problem.

Sam keeps giving us music... DLR doesn't nor does Ed... that's what we want from him and that's what he gives us!

Be thankful for that instead of shooting the messenger.

Is there something that folks find strange regarding the recent interviews with Sam?

Some things have already been pointed out (Azoff was the manager so Hagar must've agreed to the ticket prices etc etc), however this backbiting to Ed is beginning to hack me off.......

Baring in mind that Ed's songwriting / talent has allowed a mediocre/poor singer but great frontman & a good singer/OK frontman live a life that they must thank god every day........if Sam has got so much to say about the guy that provided the foundation for him to own Cabo, get sponsorship deals with Washburn etc (cause they sure as hell wouldn't have done it without the Ed association) - why don't he take these points out man to man with Ed? He says he doesn't need it - but does a FRIEND just walk away....

Secondly - if Ed is such a miserable sod, where is the evidence? I've just watched the Greensboro boot and Ed looks happier than hell. By all accounts, during the tour he was more concerned with having a good time rather than concentrating on his fretboard......the two dorks interviews don't exactly portray a miserable git do they?

On another point - I heard a boot of one of the soundchecks..........jesus Ed's playing was sooooo good - he looks really bored to me during the worn out stuff in the 2004 tour......in SGMAD, the new toons, Unchained etc his playing rocks.

I don't know...I like Sam but this airinig grievances about Ed is not good - even out of respect for what he has provided for Sam..

Well said!! Sammy is a big pussy!!

I'm sorry, but while we're on the topic of reading comprehension, when did I say that Dave was a "great" singer? I simply said it's better to evaluate someone by the recorded product they put out, then 25 year old bootlegs. I don't think VH needed or wanted a "great" singer, I'm sure no one asked Dave if he got an "A" in chorus. The point that I was making was that Dave was not in fact a poor/mediocre singer like you said, at least not in that time period.

As for Britney, I'm sorry if her live shows didn't measure up to the albums you think are great. I usually watch her videos with the volume off myself.

Right...I think I'm with you now mate.......that's the prob with text - one dimensional. We're coming from two perspectives....you are saying Dave was perfect for VH......and he was. I was saying that in the great big scheme of things away from VH.....Dave is a mediocre singer (as in Tom Jones is a great singer / Freddie Mercury was a great singer)......however would the chemistry have been the same if VH had a 'technically' better singer? No - I very much doubt it.

What a crock a' shit, dude. Come on, stop defending Ed and accept it. Eddies has changed. Listen to any of his interviews before 2000 and he is humble, excited and happy. These days, he's miserable, cocky and I for one am thankful that I don't have to work with him.

Ed is the catalyst to VH, he knows and the fans know it. He is about the most dysfunctional bastard! Communicate with your fans. They/we made him. If you are taking a break, fine, communicate this. If you are finished with Van Halen, fine, it's closure for everyone, but don't act like we don't exist.

To say Sammy is a poor singer is a little much. I don't think he's the best singer out there, but he has range. You almost make it sound like Eddie made Sammy. Not even close. Sammy is the the kind of guy that is down to earth, open and knows what he wants. Ed and Al are hermits who were once legends. If anything VH made DLR. Now he's just a shell of poor singer, good frontman, interviewing to be a DJ.

If you want to get tired of something, get tired of Ed's lack of playing because he has a lead singer-sized chip on his shoulder. Where's the evidence? Ed has no wife, holely clothes, no tour, no lead singer and apparently no band.

Firstly - I referred to Sam as a good singer...which he patently is.

Second - I wasn't defending Ed....I was saying that a couple of things Sam have done are wrong (in my opinion and that he should try to sort things out man to man.

I was however saying that on 2004 tour he looked happy and in the two dorks interview he sounds happy (unfortunately we've got no other info on Ed's state of mind) . Sam is saying otherwise, but we don't know that.

You mention Ed having a huge chip on his shoulder - how do you know? Perspectives are manufactured by essentially getting the first word in......if Sam is doing interviews saying one thing and Ed isn't saying anything, then Sam's perspective will be believed....Sam e if it was the other way around.

It's ironic that Sam's statements mirror Dave's..........and it probably is all true - but we don't know.

Conspiracy theorists could argue that Sam is saying all the same things as Dave did in 85 so that his story is more believable after he got all the money he needed to set up more cantinas out of the 2004 tour........how do we know this isn't the case......we don t.

Dude - I'm just the same as you. I want an album, I want a tour, I want to see Ed play.........but I was pointing out that a couple of things Sam has done don't ring true, that's all.

Guys - I've been a massive VH fan since my dad called me in from playing football / soccer in 84 to check out VH on a music show called Top of the Pops.......I'm gutted I never got to see them with Dave, and am truly grateful I was able to see them three times with Sam........

I'm sure that you guys attacking me for having an opinion are just as big / bigger fans than me........as fans together, why does everyone rant and rave when they read something that differs from their own view.....this is a discussion forum, not a rant forum.

As far as Ed owing Dave / Sam.....are you sure it ain't the other way around. Ed would've been a star regardless of the band he was...maybe not to the same degree....but a star none the less. Would Dave had been such a star without Ed.....hmm....I guess we'll never know, but I doubt it........and I don't really care.

On another note - I was on my way to work this morning and I have a 6-cd changer in the car. In there I have VH1, 5150, Fair Warning, WACF, Balance, and 1984.........I then thought 'Jesus - how many times have I listened to these things!'

Sam may be upset.....They did look happy at times...I love Ed,but his playing on 2004 tour was some of the worst I have seen or heard..Compare it to 98 tour when he was on FIRE & happy to sign anything.....

Sam may be upset.....They did look happy at times...I love Ed,but his playing on 2004 tour was some of the worst I have seen or heard..Compare it to 98 tour when he was on FIRE & happy to sign anything.....

I've said it before and I'll say it again, OY.

Right...I think I'm with you now mate.......that's the prob with text - one dimensional. We're coming from two perspectives....you are saying Dave was perfect for VH......and he was. I was saying that in the great big scheme of things away from VH.....Dave is a mediocre singer (as in Tom Jones is a great singer / Freddie Mercury was a great singer)......however would the chemistry have been the same if VH had a 'technically' better singer? No - I very much doubt it.

No problem. I don't think anyone will ever confuse Dave's vocal range with Freddie's either. :)

Who know's what ed's like offstage and how he treated Sam? I happen
to think Sam's comments are more or less accurate, but I think we all know
by now that Sammy's comments should be taken with a grain of salt.
Followed by a tequila shot and a squeeze of lime.

All I have to say is that 3 singers, 3 personalities have tried to make it work with Van Halen since 1995, specifically Edward, and it hasn't worked. Is it Dave, Sam, or Gary? Is it Edward? I am going on Edward on this. I never saw Dave, Sam, or Gary drawing on their arms with permanent marker. The first night I saw them in Chicago on the 2004 tour was quite embarassing with all of the technical problems he was having. Ed was the weak link of the band from the 2 shows I saw on the 2004 tour, the rest of the band was solid. Ed needs some help, but I fear it is to late.

All I have to say is that 3 singers, 3 personalities have tried to make it work with Van Halen since 1995, specifically Edward, and it hasn't worked. Is it Dave, Sam, or Gary? Is it Edward? I am going on Edward on this. I never saw Dave, Sam, or Gary drawing on their arms with permanent marker. The first night I saw them in Chicago on the 2004 tour was quite embarassing with all of the technical problems he was having. Ed was the weak link of the band from the 2 shows I saw on the 2004 tour, the rest of the band was solid. Ed needs some help, but I fear it is to late.

I'm just asking but aren't technical problems the crews fault? And wasn't the crew Sam's and wasn't there talk that Ed wanted to fire some of the crew? I'm not being sarcastic. I'm truly wondering if that might be where some of the problem with the crew came from. I've not been in a band so I have no idea who is responsible for what areas.

Most of the problems were due to Ed using a cord for his guitar. He kept tripping on it and pulling it out. Imagine "Ain't Talking About Love" without the guitar. Ed's playing on "Top of the World" on the 2004 tour was brutal. It sounded like it was stuck in mud.

From the boots I have, the whole sound system did not sound clear. Everyone sounded a bit muddy or something and not just Ed.

Once again, not trying to be mean or a smartass. Just putting this out there for say an a interview question to Sam. Remember folks, I do like Sam.
Everyone is saying since this time recording and the tour, you included, that Ed is just a miserable human being. Could it be that he was forced into doing a CD and tour with a singer that wasn't his first choice?

*ducks for cover*

I agree completely with MR. BRAND X

Is there something that folks find strange regarding the recent interviews with Sam?

Some things have already been pointed out (Azoff was the manager so Hagar must've agreed to the ticket prices etc etc), however this backbiting to Ed is beginning to hack me off.......

Baring in mind that Ed's songwriting / talent has allowed a mediocre/poor singer but great frontman & a good singer/OK frontman live a life that they must thank god every day........if Sam has got so much to say about the guy that provided the foundation for him to own Cabo, get sponsorship deals with Washburn etc (cause they sure as hell wouldn't have done it without the Ed association) - why don't he take these points out man to man with Ed? He says he doesn't need it - but does a FRIEND just walk away....

Secondly - if Ed is such a miserable sod, where is the evidence? I've just watched the Greensboro boot and Ed looks happier than hell. By all accounts, during the tour he was more concerned with having a good time rather than concentrating on his fretboard......the two dorks interviews don't exactly portray a miserable git do they?

On another point - I heard a boot of one of the soundchecks..........jesus Ed's playing was sooooo good - he looks really bored to me during the worn out stuff in the 2004 tour......in SGMAD, the new toons, Unchained etc his playing rocks.

I don't know...I like Sam but this airinig grievances about Ed is not good - even out of respect for what he has provided for Sam..

Brand X, you hit the nail right on the head borther. Sammy's biggest gripe seems to be that EVH doesn't know how to have fun anymore, and that he's miserable all the time and he (Ed) needs to change, so they can get back to being friends again.

point #1: How fucking hypocrytical is it that Sammy claims that Edddie can't have fun anymore and that he needs to get sober, when Sammy and Michael's whole on stage gig is about drinking Cabo and boozing it up. Nice friends these two guys seems to be. If Ed is half the alcoholic that everyone makes him out to be then Sammy and Michael should be doing whatever they can to support their friend instead of throwing all that shit out there in front of the guy on stage every night.

point #2: If Ed is indeed miserable maybe it has something to do with my first point. It could also have to so with the fact that these guys decided to NOT talk about their past problems and move on. These guys will never be friends again until they vent on one another about their past problems, so they they can come to an undertsanding and move on.

point #3: Why the hell should EVH be the only one that has to change here. Sammy needs to get over himself and realize not everything is about him, the band isn't called "Sammy Hagar".

Michael needs to get stop kissing Sammy's ass.

Alex needs to defend his brother, but also needs to be real with about the state of things. Siding with EVH (even if he is your brother) is not what is going to Ed to recognize the opinion of other band members.

Ed needs to lighten up (if not give up completely) on the "Smoking Loon". He obviously needs to get sober (and stop smoking for good), and needs to realize (like Sammy) that isn't the "Edward Van Halen" show, it's supposed to be a band, called VAN HALEN, for christ sake.

...Where HAVE all the good times gone?!?! :(

Hey I heard that Sam thinks Ed should stop drinking. Gonna go start a thread about it.

Once again, not trying to be mean or a smartass. Just putting this out there for say an a interview question to Sam. Remember folks, I do like Sam.
Everyone is saying since this time recording and the tour, you included, that Ed is just a miserable human being. Could it be that he was forced into doing a CD and tour with a singer that wasn't his first choice?

*ducks for cover*

No need to duck for cover IMO. You may be right. Maybe Sammy wasn't Ed's first choice of singers, but maybe DLR wasn't his first choice either.

How do we know that EVH doesn't really want to work with Gary or some other singer that the hardcore VH fan base would never accept (at least if the band was to be called VAN HALEN). If this is the possible scenario, than Ed is inbetween a rock and a hard place.

It's amazing to me how quickly a lot of the folks here have turned on old Sammy. Now let me get this straight....Dave was delusional and being an asshole when Eddie fired him? And now it's Sammy who's not being a good "friend" by telling the truth about Eddie? Is anything ever Eddie's fault?! Clearly at this point in his life Ed is in need of help...not just a bunch of people attempting to justify his behaviour. Also, I think both Dave and Sammy would have been just fine if their paths hadn't crossed with the VH boys. Sammy in fact had a very comfortable career before Eddie came calling and we all know that Dave is smart enough, talented enough and weird enough that he would have been just fine as well (even if it was as a game show host!LOL). Without Dave and Sammy, Eddie would have just been another killer guitarist without a clue how to write a hit song. Just like Malmsteen, Michael Schenker, Ace Frehley and a bunch of others...

Once again, not trying to be mean or a smartass. Just putting this out there for say an a interview question to Sam. Remember folks, I do like Sam.
Everyone is saying since this time recording and the tour, you included, that Ed is just a miserable human being. Could it be that he was forced into doing a CD and tour with a singer that wasn't his first choice?

*ducks for cover*

I can't come up with anything that would force that scenario. If any of them weren't interested, they wouldn't have done it. Its not like Ed has a problem with sitting around doing nothing. He has clear track record in that regard.

It's amazing to me how quickly a lot of the folks here have turned on old Sammy. Now let me get this straight....Dave was delusional and being an asshole when Eddie fired him? And now it's Sammy who's not being a good "friend" by telling the truth about Eddie? Is anything ever Eddie's fault?! Clearly at this point in his life Ed is in need of help...not just a bunch of people attempting to justify his behaviour. Also, I think both Dave and Sammy would have been just fine if their paths hadn't crossed with the VH boys. Sammy in fact had a very comfortable career before Eddie came calling and we all know that Dave is smart enough, talented enough and weird enough that he would have been just fine as well (even if it was as a game show host!LOL). Without Dave and Sammy, Eddie would have just been another killer guitarist without a clue how to write a hit song. Just like Malmsteen, Michael Schenker, Ace Frehley and a bunch of others...


Not sure I agree with your closing comment about Ed, but as for the rest of your post?

http://www.my-smileys.de/smileys2/beerchug.gif
Well said, Fred.

It's amazing to me how quickly a lot of the folks here have turned on old Sammy. Now let me get this straight....Dave was delusional and being an asshole when Eddie fired him? And now it's Sammy who's not being a good "friend" by telling the truth about Eddie? Is anything ever Eddie's fault?! Clearly at this point in his life Ed is in need of help...not just a bunch of people attempting to justify his behaviour. Also, I think both Dave and Sammy would have been just fine if their paths hadn't crossed with the VH boys. Sammy in fact had a very comfortable career before Eddie came calling and we all know that Dave is smart enough, talented enough and weird enough that he would have been just fine as well (even if it was as a game show host!LOL). Without Dave and Sammy, Eddie would have just been another killer guitarist without a clue how to write a hit song. Just like Malmsteen, Michael Schenker, Ace Frehley and a bunch of others...

Ahh....a voice of reason peeks through the haze. Like a cool summer breeze. :thumb:

Sometimes our mantra around here oughta be labeled the EVH Army. Or the I'm Ready for the Next Singer if I Gotta Be Fan Club.

It's amazing to me how quickly a lot of the folks here have turned on old Sammy. Now let me get this straight....Dave was delusional and being an asshole when Eddie fired him? And now it's Sammy who's not being a good "friend" by telling the truth about Eddie? Is anything ever Eddie's fault?! Clearly at this point in his life Ed is in need of help...not just a bunch of people attempting to justify his behaviour. Also, I think both Dave and Sammy would have been just fine if their paths hadn't crossed with the VH boys. Sammy in fact had a very comfortable career before Eddie came calling and we all know that Dave is smart enough, talented enough and weird enough that he would have been just fine as well (even if it was as a game show host!LOL). Without Dave and Sammy, Eddie would have just been another killer guitarist without a clue how to write a hit song. Just like Malmsteen, Michael Schenker, Ace Frehley and a bunch of others...

#1. Eddie didn't fire Dave. Dave quit. Don't believe me? See page 227 of DLR's book. In three seperate paragraphs Dave clearly states he "left" VH.

#2. Plenty of the current (and past) state of Van Halen is EVH's fault. But he is not alone in anyone the bands undoing. Sammy is to blame, so was Dave and Al, and Michael.

#3. DLR's solo career took a fair quick nose dive after the success of EEAS and Skyscraper. Sammy's 15 minutes were about up when EVH came a callin'. Without VH Sammy would have never been able to live the life he's accustomed to and especially would have never become owner of the Cabo. Not to mention making his own tequila. VH helped make Sammy richer than he ever would have been.

#4. EVH farting, after eating refried beans and chilli sounds better than Malmsteen and Schenker combined on their best day. EVH is a living legend and will forever be remembered as the guy who changed the way the guitar was played in the late 70's early 80's. The first two guitarists you mention are completely disposable and have very little historical significance. And as far as Ace Frehley goes, I'm a huge KISS fan and he's had a huge influence over a great many guitarists (including Dimebag Darrell) and is a living legend just because of his history with KISS.

Geez. And I thought I was a rip roaring EVH apologist. LOL, I stand humbled in the presence of some of you. :rolleyes:

BTW, Schenker and Malmsteen are nowhere near disposable. And Dave's book isn't the gospel of Van Halen, but yes, Dave quit. And KISS sucks. And if Ace Frehley's a living legend, then Your Filthy Little Mouth was Led Zeppelin 4 reincarnate. :devil:

#1. Eddie didn't fire Dave. Dave quit. Don't believe me? See page 227 of DLR's book. In three seperate paragraphs Dave clearly states he "left" VH.



I could be wrong, I didn't write the original post, but I think he was refering to 1996. Isn't that when Ed called Dave delusional about being back in the group fulltime? He definitely called him an asshole, but that could have also been 1985,86,87,88, etc.

I could be wrong, I didn't write the original post, but I think he was refering to 1996. Isn't that when Ed called Dave delusional about being back in the group fulltime? He definitely called him an asshole, but that could have also been 1985,86,87,88, etc.

Dave wasn't fired in 1996 either. DLR was brought in to do two songs for the Best Of Volume 1 collection. Dave jumped the gun. MTV jumped the gun. the band never, ever announced that Dave was once again their lead singer.

Dave wasn't fired in 1996 either. DLR was brought in to do two songs for the Best Of Volume 1 collection. Dave jumped the gun. MTV jumped the gun. the band never, ever announced that Dave was once again their lead singer.

True enough. Somehow though they thought it would be a good idea to give everyone the impression he was back. Stellar management during that time period. :confused:

"The first two guitarists you mention are completely disposable and have very little historical significance. And as far as Ace Frehley goes, I'm a huge KISS fan and he's had a huge influence over a great many guitarists (including Dimebag Darrell) and is a living legend just because of his history with KISS."

The reason that you find Malmsteen and Schenker as "disposable" are because they never had a Dave or Sam to make them anything more than that....again, no hit song!! Do you think Dimebag (God rest his soul) would even be in your record collection if it wasn't for Phil? As far as Ace goes, I'm a huge KISS fan as well, but name me 1 hit that Ace wrote. He DID NOT write New York Groove or Do Ya or Into the Night or any other of his main solo singles....I wonder why? If Ed hadn't hooked up with Dave and/or Sammy he still would have revolutionized guitar playing, but only to the few guitar heads that would have purchased an album full of instrumental hammer-ons....I guess what I'm saying is "You prove my point!" Thanks!

"The first two guitarists you mention are completely disposable and have very little historical significance. And as far as Ace Frehley goes, I'm a huge KISS fan and he's had a huge influence over a great many guitarists (including Dimebag Darrell) and is a living legend just because of his history with KISS."

The reason that you find Malmsteen and Schenker as "disposable" are because they never had a Dave or Sam to make them anything more than that....again, no hit song!! Do you think Dimebag (God rest his soul) would even be in your record collection if it wasn't for Phil? As far as Ace goes, I'm a huge KISS fan as well, but name me 1 hit that Ace wrote. He DID NOT write New York Groove or Do Ya or Into the Night or any other of his main solo singles....I wonder why? If Ed hadn't hooked up with Dave and/or Sammy he still would have revolutionized guitar playing, but only to the few guitar heads that would have purchased an album full of instrumental hammer-ons....I guess what I'm saying is "You prove my point!" Thanks!

(Sigh) Malmsteen & Schenker not having any "hits" has nothing to do with it. I simply don't like their playing. Randy Rhoades (God rest his soul) was 10 times the player Malmsteen will ever be.

And for the record, I don't own one single recording with Dimebag on it. I happen to not particularly like Pantera as a matter of fact. Anselmo sucks IMO! But Dimebag happened to one hell of a guitar player.

Hello? Is there anyone in there? Ace Frehley may not have written any solo "hits" but he did happen to write the following KISS classics: "Cold Gin", "Parasite", "Shock Me", and co-wrote "Rocket Ride" with Sean Dellaney.

EVH more than likely could have made it with another singer it just might have taken him a bit longer and the classic sound obviously would have been different with a different singer. He had a very different sound for the time period and that made him stand out. EVH is what got VH noticed in the first place.

Without Dave and Sammy, Eddie would have just been another killer guitarist without a clue how to write a hit song. Just like Malmsteen, Michael Schenker, Ace Frehley and a bunch of others...

That's a total load of shit, Ed's writing style is totally different then YM and MS, he owns them both in his transition from lead to rhythm and song writing skills, it's insane to compare them in those categories, Dave had Vai and still couldn't write anything, they had to buy alot of songs from other writers, you are reaching if you think Ed can't write a hit song. :rolleyes:

If Ed is so capable of writing a hit song, what happened on VHIII? That was the first album that he had pretty much total control over and the material was clearly in need of some constructive criticism but none was forthcoming. Why? Because Gary was a hired hand who was there to write and sing what Ed told him to, not question his musical direction or decisions. If Dave or Sammy had been involved with the same material, I bet there would have been a huge single as well as a lot of arguments but the material would have benefited in my opinion. Instrumental chops do not equate to hit material. I know this may seem like I'm slagging Ed, but I'm really not. All I'm saying is that Ed needs Dave and Sammy as much, if not more than they need him. A lot of musical geniuses need someone to rein in and shape and form their ideas and Ed is one of those people in my opinion.

If Ed is so capable of writing a hit song, what happened on VHIII? That was the first album that he had pretty much total control over and the material was clearly in need of some constructive criticism but none was forthcoming. Why? Because Gary was a hired hand who was there to write and sing what Ed told him to, not question his musical direction or decisions. If Dave or Sammy had been involved with the same material, I bet there would have been a huge single as well as a lot of arguments but the material would have benefited in my opinion. Instrumental chops do not equate to hit material. I know this may seem like I'm slagging Ed, but I'm really not. All I'm saying is that Ed needs Dave and Sammy as much, if not more than they need him. A lot of musical geniuses need someone to rein in and shape and form their ideas and Ed is one of those people in my opinion.

Damn....couldn't have said it better. :thumb: There's no doubt that Ed is a great, great musician.....but the other guys aren't exactly window dressing either. You need many good parts to make that greater whole.

If Ed is so capable of writing a hit song, what happened on VHIII? That was the first album that he had pretty much total control over and the material was clearly in need of some constructive criticism but none was forthcoming. Why? Because Gary was a hired hand who was there to write and sing what Ed told him to, not question his musical direction or decisions. If Dave or Sammy had been involved with the same material, I bet there would have been a huge single as well as a lot of arguments but the material would have benefited in my opinion. Instrumental chops do not equate to hit material. I know this may seem like I'm slagging Ed, but I'm really not. All I'm saying is that Ed needs Dave and Sammy as much, if not more than they need him. A lot of musical geniuses need someone to rein in and shape and form their ideas and Ed is one of those people in my opinion.

Depends on what your take is of 3, commercialy it tanked, but they could have anyone sing on the record and after what went down, it still wouldn't have gotten a good response, music wise it's some of the bands best work, alot of times when people are asked about it they say "wrong type of album with a new singer", and that is about it, if that were Sam or Dave, and all was left the same it would have sold better and you wouldn't be going on about it. Fair Warning was a dark record and also never got alot of commercial appeal from people, yet for alot it's Van Halen's record of choice. To say Ed can't write a hit without either one of them is pointless, they said the same thing when Roth left, bottom line:people don't like change once, let alone 3 times, and that's what happened, just becuase they didn't have a #1 hit dosen't mean he can't write.

Gary was a hired hand who was there to write and sing what Ed told him to, not question his musical direction or decisions.


THis is not true. From an interview I heard with Gary, the music was written to vocal melodies that Gary would come up with first. This was different than music that he would write with Extreme were it was vocal melodies written to instrumental tracks, and the way most VH tunes were written. The approach taken on VHIII where Ed would come up with stuff to Gary's melodies did not work because Gary obviously writes alot worse this way, and some of the vocal melodies were what was lacking IMO. He also said in that interview that VHIII was the only time he had written like this.

Sammy needs to just SHUTTHE FUCK UP and just be a solo artist from now on.
For someone who claims to be so happy being a solo artist, he seems to dwell on Eddie & Van Halen too much. They should just sever all ties civily, and Mike make amends with Eddie and Alex and get a brand new singer and inject some life into the stagnant band.

They mightnot get the commercial success that they have once enjoyed, or sell out big arenas. But they can do smaller venues or go out on package tours with other "no longer at their top" bands.

JOURNEY was once one of the biggest bands in the world. Steve Perry didn't want to be a "rock star" anymore and he parted ways with the band. They found a replacement who can really sing and sounds a bit like Perry and they seem very happy just making and playing music. Their loyal fans buy it and see their shows and they are content with doing that.
Maybe Van Halen should just take a page from Journey and go their (soory for the pun) Separate Ways with both Sammy and Dave.

The legacy of VH will live forever. No matter what they do.

Cheddymon, you are one of the biggest flip flopping bitches ever.

And no, Journey without Steve Perry sucks. Not that they were ever in Halen's league anyway.

A brand new singer. GREAT idea. Original, too.

I doubt Mikey's going back without Sam. And it ain't Van Halen without Mike.

So for all the hopefuls, if Ed doesn't clean up yet still wants to make music...you'd better hope (a) Dave can deal with Ed's current regime, (b) you can handle a new bassist on the left side of the stage, and (c) they call their newest incarnation, at the tender half century mark to boot, something other than Van Halen.

Van Roth?
Red Star Ball Jet?
The Other Half of the Bill With Another Gasping 80s Nostalgia Act?

:devil: Just kidding, just kidding. My point being, no Mikey, no VH. No Sammy, no Mikey.

Personally, I predict one of four things happening, and the first three are predicated on the assumption that Ed DOES in fact still want to make music and have it made available to the public.

If Ed gets a grip, he'll reconcile with Sam and Mike.
If Ed stays the same, he'll make something happen with Dave.
If Ed stays the same, he'll do a solo / All Star thingie.
Or Ed will fade into the sunset.

Personally, I'm hanging onto the first option, since the second option is a ridiculous long shot only people at these websites entertain. :)

Personally I'm all for complete retirement of the VH band name. Done, finished.

And if Ed feels like it, put out some kind of instrumental record....have Al play on it if he wants, but I'd like to hear it.

Personally I'm all for complete retirement of the VH band name. Done, finished.


I wonder, since he was so dissapointed with the reaction to III, why he didn't consider doing just that and starting fresh under a different banner?

In hindsight, I wish he had. I don't think Ed has ever recovered from the failure of III, and he might never.

Alcoholism does horrible things to a man. As you know. Was III the hop off the wagon, or was the divorce? Or the health scare?

I'm not saying everybody should feel free to start throwing shit in the press, as Dave, Sam, and Mike have done, so to speak, but I also know there's a point where you just reach a limit. Granted, their celebrity status obligates them, ideally, to a higher standard of discretion, but it's not like it was a secret. If Ed wanted that downplayed, he should've known not to go out on tour last year, or at least wait until after the shows to imbibe.

I've been in Ed's corner from the get go. Still am. But I can't say I blame people in the inner VH camp circle for getting huffy, I've been there myself. It sucks. Just as Sam and Dave should have respect, so too should Ed for them. At the same time, Sam and Dave's mutual tequila-whiskey hijinks onstage can't be productive for the soul. There's ways for a garage party band to age gracefully and still honor their roots, I think.

I miss the sober Balance days, for sure.

We've had this argument before, and like I've always said. Band shit, should stay in the band circle, it's classless to run to the press and talk shit about your band members. And fuck, Sam runs around talking out of both sides of his mouth. Who knows what the fuck the truth is. But if he kept his mouth shut, and worked this out with his bandmates, we as fans wouldn't draw the conclusions we do without honestly any fucking idea what we're talking about.

Yes I would like to see Ed get clean and sober if he indeed is still having a problem. I'm always in his corner, because he's the force behind this band, the most talented member of this band, and I think honestly behind all of his insecurities and addictions a good person. And the only reason I first was attracted to this band and to playing guitar later myself was hearing Ed play, so his importance to me goes beyond anyone else in the band.

Who knows what the fuck the truth is. But if he kept his mouth shut, and worked this out with his bandmates, we as fans wouldn't draw the conclusions we do without honestly any fucking idea what we're talking about.

Point. :)

Wow lots of words of wisdom float around these threads at this late/early hour!! I tend to agree that III was it for Edward. That was his baby, his "me" album cause he had control over everything. All it got was negative reviews cause of Gary and the overall dark tone of the album.

I'm always for Edward, and it was his guitar wizardry that drew me to VH in the first place. He's always been the driving force behind VH. I've always said that they need to send VH off into the sunset with a farewell tour with Dave but we all know that'll never happen.

Things that happen in the band, internal things need to stay within the band. You never see Big Al or Edward running to the press half as much as Sammy has. I'm sure Edward's not too happy with Sammy right now.

But then we all knew that didn't we???!! :thumb:

I didn't think my post about Sams professionalism / attitude towards Ed would turn into such a beast.......that was a real entertaining few minutes reading those...good stuff!

Sammy needs to just SHUTTHE FUCK UP and just be a solo artist from now on.
For someone who claims to be so happy being a solo artist, he seems to dwell on Eddie & Van Halen too much. They should just sever all ties civily, and Mike make amends with Eddie and Alex and get a brand new singer and inject some life into the stagnant band.



Its not like Sammy is scheduling press conferences to talk about this stuff. If people weren't asking about it, he wouldn't be talking about. You know full well if he doesn't answer those questions the morons in the media just keep rephrasing the question until he does.......

I just don't get it. Roth talked amazing amounts of shit about the band in the years after he left but again, no one seems to want to remember that.

I just don't get it. Roth talked amazing amounts of shit about the band in the years after he left but again, no one seems to want to remember that.

Well, that's just it--Dave had left. According to the VH "official" website, Sam is still in. He himself isn't claiming to be totally out either. You shouldn't have it both ways,if you're "in", work things out internally. If you're "out", try to show some class but inevitably prople will ask why you're out and stuff comes out. Further, VH talked plenty of crap about Dave too, it was a two way street--right now it seems to be a one way street.

Well, that's just it--Dave had left. According to the VH "official" website, Sam is still in. He himself isn't claiming to be totally out either. You shouldn't have it both ways,if you're "in", work things out internally. If you're "out", try to show some class but inevitably prople will ask why you're out and stuff comes out. Further, VH talked plenty of crap about Dave too, it was a two way street--right now it seems to be a one way street.

The man said he wasn't going back unless Eddie changed. You don't have to go back to something you are already in. From the information we have there are no contractual obligations for Sammy to VH. Sounds pretty out of the band to me. Whether or not Eddie has emerged from his compound lately to find out about it or not is anyone's guess.

I'm a newbie poster on here even though I've beem a member for well over a year. I've been a fan of VH ever since I heard RWTD for the first time. I'm a fan of both the Dave and Sam era's and even the Gary mini era if that counts. Even had to get the VH ink similiar to Ed's after seeing the Amsterdam video. Go ahead and flame a first time poster.

As much as I love Ed, it has to be tough to work with the guy. He seems to be a control freak and very moody and even more so when the alcohol is involved. It's tough to be around someone for a long period of times when all of these factors are at work. We all know what it's like to be around a drunk unless we're drinking ourselves (seems like Ed is drinking quite a bit). It gets old real quick and I think everyone knows what I'm talking about. I'm sure Ed has alot of reasons to drink like he does but it's taking it's toll on his career and those around him.

I don't think Sam is trying to stir the pot with these interviews. He is simply trying to answer the questions that are being asked and I'm sure the frustrations are coming out in the process. Sam and Ed are the best vocalist/guitarist combinations I have ever witnessed in my lifetime. It's a shame that these two can't get along anough to make music anymore. It appears that Ed has become a bitter person over the last few years, he has been through alot and some of it is understandable. It seems that the alcohol really intensifies it. Sam is still the party guy on stage and likes to connect with the audience and that pretty much conflicts with the personality of that such as Ed's here lately. Until Ed can get his mind straight, no relationship is going to be able to exist with Ed and a lead singer and I'm afraid that's never going to happen (I'm praying that I'm wrong). This is not just a Sam issue, no matter who sings for VH, it will be tough situation. All we can do is hope that one day, something (I don't think a someone can do it) is going to slap Ed in the face and make him realize that the wine bottle is not the answer to his problems. I don't want to see the VH legacy end in this kind of situation.

Well I am glad that I went to three shows last year because I knew it would not last. However I have a big problem with what Sammy has been doing. During his first tenure with VH, you never heard any of the problems come to light. However we all know there was tensions after 5150. Hell does anybody remember Sammy's work ethic for Balance that was listed on the Inside?

This is what I know. Ed lies and Sammy has lied. Alex has lied and "gasp" Mikey has lied too.

Yes I know its abhorrent to say that Saint Michael Anthony has lied but he has. Hell he even sold his soul to the devil and sided with Ed during VH3.

The stuff about Mike is VH is bullshit. If Geddy Lee left Rush, yeah Rush would no longer be Rush. If Gene left KISS, KISS would no longer work. However we are talking about a guy who plays the root and sings a good background vocal. Hell I can get Pat Badger (formally of Extreme) who is a better bass player and was able to sing soprano backgrounds with better harmonies. I like VH but Extreme's backgrounds are sick.

The band is named Van Halen because two of the original members have the last name of Van Halen. In case you have not realized but the brother's have rights to that name. Otherwise, Roth could have prevented them from using it for Sammy's tenure and Sammy with Gary's.

Personally I hope that this is it for them and they can do a new project that is not tied down to what Roth tards, Hagarites want. Do it for the Eddie fans. The ones that like the band because of an incredible guitarist.

BTW, Eddie would have made it without Roth. The guy along with Hendrix is able to showcase outstanding guitar with songwriting chops. I like Yngwie and other instrumental guitarists however they for the most part are horrible songwriters. They write for the guitar instead of the vocal.

I have been faithful to VH since the beginning. Roth was there in the beginning and he was the right singer for that time. As the band progressed though, and they parted ways Sam made a great fit for the band.
Gary, well the music didn't quite make sense for us and when I saw him in concert it just didn't feel right.

It was great to have Sam back again, and everyone was cautious (rightfully so as it appears) but thankfull.

Now it's time to move on Ed, go solo and forget about touring (at least for now). Most of us just want some new music at this point.

Sam has no patience for it anymore and seems to be happy with playing old stuff and throwing in a new tidbit of a song here or there. In my opinion he basically is riding the wave of popularity he picked up from the reunion tour and running with it. That's fine, he can do what he wants. (By the way, I paid the $300 for the ticket, Ed, Mike and Alex were at the soundcheck, no Sam. He was running 'late', gee that shouldn't upset Ed right?) Sorry Sam I love you man but I have to be honest here if you're gonna gripe be prepared to take it.

Also if money was the incentive for Ed and Alex, why don't I have a Eddie Van Halen Action Macfarlane(R) Figure sitting on my desk at work yet???! I'll tell you why, because Ed is a musician, not a business man. Sam obviously has the business savey in this group. (I still love ya though Sammy).

Although Sam did sign something for me during the show so I'm gratefull for that. And he put on a helluva show! I'm just saying if you're complaining about not getting along and how high prices were, think about it.

Ok that said, Ed has loads of talent, and many tunes in the hopper. I don't think this means VH as we know cannot make another reunion, just that he might as well get some music out for THE FANS! Ed there is so much support for this right now, it would be the ideal time to do this. Who knows, maybe it would even spark Sam to get back in the studio. (Yes I want Sammy back!)

A down and outright frustrated fan of a freeking soap opera filled band.

I'm with you Ziggy.

The band is named Van Halen because two of the original members have the last name of Van Halen. In case you have not realized but the brother's have rights to that name. Otherwise, Roth could have prevented them from using it for Sammy's tenure and Sammy with Gary's.


BTW, Eddie would have made it without Roth. The guy along with Hendrix is able to showcase outstanding guitar with songwriting chops. I like Yngwie and other instrumental guitarists however they for the most part are horrible songwriters. They write for the guitar instead of the vocal.


It was David Lee Roth's suggestion that the band be called Van Halen.

No question Eddie Van Halen would have made it without Dave in some other band as a great guitar player he was obviously given a special gift. But if you're suggesting that Van Halen would've been as successful without Dave then you're high as a fucking kite! :sssh:

We've had this argument before, and like I've always said. Band shit, should stay in the band circle, it's classless to run to the press and talk shit about your band members. And fuck, Sam runs around talking out of both sides of his mouth. Who knows what the fuck the truth is. But if he kept his mouth shut, and worked this out with his bandmates, we as fans wouldn't draw the conclusions we do without honestly any fucking idea what we're talking about.

Yes I would like to see Ed get clean and sober if he indeed is still having a problem. I'm always in his corner, because he's the force behind this band, the most talented member of this band, and I think honestly behind all of his insecurities and addictions a good person. And the only reason I first was attracted to this band and to playing guitar later myself was hearing Ed play, so his importance to me goes beyond anyone else in the band.

You tell 'em Brett. :thumb:

Well I can't leave Al out of this now. No Ed no Al in a band. Whatever let's get some music singer or not.

BTW, Eddie would have made it without Roth. The guy along with Hendrix is able to showcase outstanding guitar with songwriting chops. I like Yngwie and other instrumental guitarists however they for the most part are horrible songwriters. They write for the guitar instead of the vocal.

I personally have to wonder if Van Halen had not formed and gained a local fan base in LA they way they did, and subsequently got a record deal, If EVH would have ever been noticed at all....Thats not a slam at Ed, its just a hard , cold fact of the matter...
My Brother used to mix for a lot of bands in the Cincinnati Oh area back in the early 80's , and I used to accompany him on occasion...Ive heard several guitarists, singers, drummers , all with amazing talent , that have never been noticed on a national scale....I personally placed bass in a band with an amazing guitarist....and unless you get noticed and signed and marketed and sent on tour by a record label...you have almost no hope of ever getting noticed...I have the website of one of these amazing players if anyone is interested . In a perfect world, the most talented players out there would be the ones getting first dibs at a record deal...but this world is far from perfect..
So you have acts like New kids on the block , and whatever boy bands , and in the early 90s if you were from Seattle and played a few chords , they were handing out record deals, to prove this , I only have to say the words, "four non blondes" Record companies dont care about talent...they care about finding the next big thing, and once they do, they will beat it to death and milk every last dollar out of it...
Van Halen hit it in a world of Rock fans getting pummeled by disco, the market was ripe for the picking....does this mean they werent talented? of course not...They were the singlemost influential band of their time, and Ed the singlemost influential guitarist, who is now legnedary, but the record companies milked the genre to death, hence , we got the Seattle sound, which has since gone by the wayside....
My whole point here is that great players get ignored everyday, and it could have just as easily happened to EVH....he needed the Band around him, just as much as they needed him...and together they built a legend, and with Sam continued that legend...
But if Van Halen hadnt happened they way it did, we may never had known EVH...I'm really happy to say....we do.

Hey I heard that Sam thinks Ed should stop drinking. Gonna go start a thread about it.


Well then I'll start a thread about how Sam and Michael are hypocrites for their boozing. That will be followed by an Ed citing in NY with his hair up.

Well then I'll start a thread about how Sam and Michael are hypocrites for their boozing. That will be followed by an Ed citing in NY with his hair up.

Sam and Mike aren't drunk off there ass and unable to perform at a reasonable level. Ed clearly was on the last tour. A huge difference.

Sam and Mike aren't drunk off there ass and unable to perform at a reasonable level. Ed clearly was on the last tour. A huge difference.

First, my sarcasm is that people bring absolutley nothing new to the table when discussing this band.

But since you have engaged me, I too will further beat this dead horse...

Did you see him drunk off his ass last tour? I wanna know what clearly was?

Yeah, how can you truly define "drunk off his ass" ? And how can you tell if Mikey's had one too many....are you paying that much attention to see if he nails every bass line? And Sam could have been using those times to sign stuff for when he couldn't belt out the tunes like normal. But so what? I just can't stand this serious bashing Ed gets for his problems. The poor guy isn't going to be with us forever and we need to simply appreciate what he's given us thus far.

First, my sarcasm is that people bring absolutley nothing new to the table when discussing this band.

But since you have engaged me, I too will further beat this dead horse...

Did you see him drunk off his ass last tour? I wanna know what clearly was?

Slurred speech and embarrasingly bad playing at the show at The Palace of Auburn Hills July 11 2004. He even came to the mic at the end of a particularly piss poor section of his solo and says "I don't know what that was............" It was plainly clear even he was aware of how bad it was. The jem of the evening though was when just flat out forgot the chords in a tune and stopped playing. No, it was not some technical problem. He stopped playing after a couple of obvious wrong chords and just stood there with a glazed over look.

I've seen enough drunk musicians to spot one in a heart beat.

Slurred speech and embarrasingly bad playing at the show at The Palace of Auburn Hills July 11 2004. He even came to the mic at the end of a particularly piss poor section of his solo and says "I don't know what that was............" It was plainly clear even he was aware of how bad it was. The jem of the evening though was when just flat out forgot the chords in a tune and stopped playing. No, it was not some technical problem. He stopped playing after a couple of obvious wrong chords and just stood there with a glazed over look.

I've seen enough drunk musicians to spot one in a heart beat.

So YOUR show sucked in your opinion...I am sure no musicians or bands have ever done that before. I believe there were 80 or so dates of the tour. Should everyone base his playing on that show in Michigan?

As far as the solo, he said that at almost every stop.

For anyone that went to the tour last year, you should get a class action lawsuit going to sue Ed and company for being hammered.

I saw MA and SH absolutely butcher Running with teh Devil in Philly but no one rips these guys for that.

I was fortunate enought to see them up close aand personal alot last year and I tell you what, they all fucked shit up evry night, whether it was MA singing wrong lyrics or SH missing parts of songs because he was signing shit.

Sorry your show sucked...waaaaaaaaaaaaa

Folks - why is it now that everyone is pissed at Ed and going off on one about having a problem with beer...

Fact 1 - Ed has always drank to go onstage. He is very introvert and alcohol was the way he could calm his nerves down. This is common knowledge.

That is why when you hear him talking from 5150, he sounds pretty lucid 'cause that is where he feels at home (ie Two dorks)

Fact 2 - The bitchin' about his playing on the last tour......I thought it was pretty common knowledge that Ed hadn't touched a guitar in any great degree for years...he was more interested in cello etc. it would take a while to get back to the level of his playing on the 111 tour....but he would have got there. (Maybe that's why it's pretty well documented that he wanted to carry on touring).

I question the way Sam is going about things......he is making himself out to be the victim in this, when it is obvious when you dig back that there has always been an issue with his work ethic (Andy Johns 'Sammy would come in for a couple of days a week, take a tape......' etc etc), this is reflected in his lazy lyrics.......

Sam is an intelligent guy - he occasionally writes great lyrics that are more in keeping with a 58 yo.....the ones I refer to are more spritual than sexual, a 58 yo preaching about sex don't seem very cool to me.....it's like listening to my Dad!

It's all subjective, isn't it? I mean, I heard EVH was all but finished but when I saw them at the concert I attended he was on. So was the band. Damn, I wish everyone coulda seen that. Oh well...

It's all subjective, isn't it? I mean, I heard EVH was all but finished but when I saw them at the concert I attended he was on. So was the band. Damn, I wish everyone coulda seen that. Oh well...

The Sunrise show right? Damn, they were on that night. It was the only show I saw and apparently it was one of the better ones.

Folks - why is it now that everyone is pissed at Ed and going off on one about having a problem with beer...

Fact 1 - Ed has always drank to go onstage. He is very introvert and alcohol was the way he could calm his nerves down. This is common knowledge.



There is a difference between having a few before going on and being hammered beyond the ability to play at a reasonable level.

Whether Ed had been playing a lot prior to the tour is irrelevant. Thats what they do preproduction and rehearsals for. I could overlook rusty playing for that reason if it wasn't plainly clear he was shit faced.

There is a difference between having a few before going on and being hammered beyond the ability to play at a reasonable level.

Whether Ed had been playing a lot prior to the tour is irrelevant. Thats what they do preproduction and rehearsals for. I could overlook rusty playing for that reason if it wasn't plainly clear he was shit faced.

The only thing is that there must have been next to no preproduction as then the tour rumour would've broke a hell of a lot earlier - they were in the studio doing an album, Sammy got bored and just wanted to tour to increase cashflow........

It doesn't look as if any of this matters anymore. Continued silence from the Brothers VH, trash talking by Sammy & kinda by Mikey. It appears as if VH at the moment is only Ed and Al.

It seems no matter what Sammy says or does it always turns into a slam against him.

Wasn't it Sammy who made the call?
Wasn't Sammy's manager who orgainzed the tour?
Wasn't it Sammy who, what must have been a miracle, that pulled Ed and Al out of oblivion and back on the road?
Didn't Sammy bring us 3 new tunes? Maybe you didn't like the lyrics, but for sure, it was better than nothing. If not for Sam, there wouldn't have been ANY Van Halen last year.

Sammy knows that this late in the game you shouldn't spend TONS of time in the studio. Like he said before, he saw things falling apart and they hit the road.

I'd love some more Van Halen. We all would. I think it's mostly Ed's fault. It's one thing to be a drunk. But it sounds to me like he's a mean drunk.
After a while, who wants to put up with that shit? We all know of someone, a friend or relative, who's a fucking drunk. How many parties he/she's ruined. Weddings. etc. Would you want to put up with someone like that for months on end?

I love Eddie. I don't care if he drinks. I know he's a rock star. It never bothered me that he was drunk on stage. He was spectacular last year. Still, one of the best shows I ever saw.
I just hope it's not killing him.

It seems no matter what Sammy says or does it always turns into a slam against him.

Wasn't it Sammy who made the call?
Wasn't Sammy's manager who orgainzed the tour?
Wasn't it Sammy who, what must have been a miracle, that pulled Ed and Al out of oblivion and back on the road?
Didn't Sammy bring us 3 new tunes? Maybe you didn't like the lyrics, but for sure, it was better than nothing. If not for Sam, there wouldn't have been ANY Van Halen last year.

Sammy knows that this late in the game you shouldn't spend TONS of time in the studio. Like he said before, he saw things falling apart and they hit the road.

I'd love some more Van Halen. We all would. I think it's mostly Ed's fault. It's one thing to be a drunk. But it sounds to me like he's a mean drunk.
After a while, who wants to put up with that shit? We all know of someone, a friend or relative, who's a fucking drunk. How many parties he/she's ruined. Weddings. etc. Would you want to put up with someone like that for months on end?

I love Eddie. I don't care if he drinks. I know he's a rock star. It never bothered me that he was drunk on stage. He was spectacular last year. Still, one of the best shows I ever saw.
I just hope it's not killing him.

Dude - All of what you said is true, but when you change the perspective slightly, and just think about Sam's motive's for doing this? He has put no work into a new album, no work into promoting an album, no video-shoots, no sign-ins, no effort with lyrics on the new tunes (Learning excepted) BUT has made himself a mint of cash for the minimum possible work and is now slamming Ed.

I'm sure that most of us would have loved an album full of tunes with musicianship like that shown in UFB, but with lyrics more in keeping with the quality of the music.

I've always loved Sam - but his actions over the last few weeks have really made me question him......ticket prices, wouldn't do a full album, not turning up to Golden Ring holders / soundcheck......from someone who says the fans are all important, doesn't involve himself in these, an then comes back slamming Ed and still saying the fans are all important......I don't know - there is something wrong with this picture and we (the fans) don't know anything..........

It seems no matter what Sammy says or does it always turns into a slam against him.

Wasn't it Sammy who made the call?
Wasn't Sammy's manager who orgainzed the tour?
Wasn't it Sammy who, what must have been a miracle, that pulled Ed and Al out of oblivion and back on the road?
Didn't Sammy bring us 3 new tunes? Maybe you didn't like the lyrics, but for sure, it was better than nothing. If not for Sam, there wouldn't have been ANY Van Halen last year..

From the words of Sammy (which will change next month) he had a dream where Ed Leffler spoke to him and said to call Alex. He did and they had dinner. He never said that he was the one who suggested to come to 5150. That could have been Alex or Eddie for all we know.

Ray Daniels did a better job promoting the VH3 tour than Sammy's manager. At least there were interviews and a video. Look at how Motley Crue promoted their tour. Sammy's manager probably had more to do with the high ticket prices than anybody else.

From what Mikey said is that they have been trying to get DLR back in the band over the years. For whatever reason it has not worked. Maybe they were also trying with Sammy and Sammy turned them down. Maybe the brothers did not want to tarnish their name any further by going out on the road with a 4th singer.

According to Eddie and Sammy, Eddie wanted to do an album. What would you rather have? A full album without a tour or a tour containing two new songs and the same set list as before? I would take the album over the tour.



Sammy knows that this late in the game you shouldn't spend TONS of time in the studio. Like he said before, he saw things falling apart and they hit the road...

Yes I see that Aerosmith, Bon Jovi, Def Leppard see this point and only tour.



I'd love some more Van Halen. We all would. I think it's mostly Ed's fault. It's one thing to be a drunk. But it sounds to me like he's a mean drunk.
After a while, who wants to put up with that shit? We all know of someone, a friend or relative, who's a fucking drunk. How many parties he/she's ruined. Weddings. etc. Would you want to put up with someone like that for months on end? ...

I have never met Eddie and never had a conversation with him drunk so I cannot say he is a mean drunk. He may be a mean person but from other peoples accounts they say he is very warm and helpful. I think Gary is more down to earth than Sammy and he has never said a bad thing about Eddie. His kid seems to love him very much. Valerie allowed Wolfgang to be on the tour with this "mean drunk" He has a girlfriend who appears to love this "mean drunk" I am not saying he has a problem but some drunks are fun.

Is there something that folks find strange regarding the recent interviews with Sam?

Some things have already been pointed out (Azoff was the manager so Hagar must've agreed to the ticket prices etc etc), however this backbiting to Ed is beginning to hack me off.......

Baring in mind that Ed's songwriting / talent has allowed a mediocre/poor singer but great frontman & a good singer/OK frontman live a life that they must thank god every day........if Sam has got so much to say about the guy that provided the foundation for him to own Cabo, get sponsorship deals with Washburn etc (cause they sure as hell wouldn't have done it without the Ed association) - why don't he take these points out man to man with Ed? He says he doesn't need it - but does a FRIEND just walk away....

Secondly - if Ed is such a miserable sod, where is the evidence? I've just watched the Greensboro boot and Ed looks happier than hell. By all accounts, during the tour he was more concerned with having a good time rather than concentrating on his fretboard......the two dorks interviews don't exactly portray a miserable git do they?

On another point - I heard a boot of one of the soundchecks..........jesus Ed's playing was sooooo good - he looks really bored to me during the worn out stuff in the 2004 tour......in SGMAD, the new toons, Unchained etc his playing rocks.

I don't know...I like Sam but this airinig grievances about Ed is not good - even out of respect for what he has provided for Sam..
I think the reason he does air it out in interviews is Ed walks away in head to head meetings,and never wants to talk on the phone just hangs up,so this is the only way to talk to him.It does stink but at the same time he knows ed his reading and or hearing him.

OK - How can someone be a called a great singer but suck when singing live? Surely the definition of a great singer is someone who sounds great live, not sucks?

I can think of one boot where Dave sounded OK live (Not great....just OK) and that was the mixing desk boot from Pasadena 77. As most of us have - I have hundreds of bootlegs and realistically most of us know that Dave ain't about how 'great' his voice is/was....it's about the way his 'singing' and Ed's playing made us feel - that don't make his voice great, his attitude is but his voice ain't. Let's face it,,,,the exiting thing about VH with Dave was that we all knew it was a potential train wreck that was barely held together - but we all had to get on for the ride....Dave encapsulated that - but it don't make him a great singer....frontman yes / singer no.

Hey Pommie, your entitled to your views but they sure differ from mine.

Dave's voice is unique and as soulful as you could possibly wish for in the context of a hard rock band.

I'm thankful that "most of us" don't apply to me.

That is why when you hear him talking from 5150, he sounds pretty lucid 'cause that is where he feels at home (ie Two dorks)

I think he sounds fucking smashed in those interviews.

I think he sounds fucking smashed in those interviews.

The first one yeah, but he seemed sober in the second one.

Is there something that folks find strange regarding the recent interviews with Sam?

Some things have already been pointed out (Azoff was the manager so Hagar must've agreed to the ticket prices etc etc), however this backbiting to Ed is beginning to hack me off.......

Baring in mind that Ed's songwriting / talent has allowed a mediocre/poor singer but great frontman & a good singer/OK frontman live a life that they must thank god every day........if Sam has got so much to say about the guy that provided the foundation for him to own Cabo, get sponsorship deals with Washburn etc (cause they sure as hell wouldn't have done it without the Ed association) - why don't he take these points out man to man with Ed? He says he doesn't need it - but does a FRIEND just walk away....

Secondly - if Ed is such a miserable sod, where is the evidence? I've just watched the Greensboro boot and Ed looks happier than hell. By all accounts, during the tour he was more concerned with having a good time rather than concentrating on his fretboard......the two dorks interviews don't exactly portray a miserable git do they?

On another point - I heard a boot of one of the soundchecks..........jesus Ed's playing was sooooo good - he looks really bored to me during the worn out stuff in the 2004 tour......in SGMAD, the new toons, Unchained etc his playing rocks.

I don't know...I like Sam but this airinig grievances about Ed is not good - even out of respect for what he has provided for Sam..
OBviously, you never toured with people for 6 months. every night. People get outta control if the bubble isn't shaping right. No matter how much they get per performance.

OBviously, you never toured with people for 6 months. every night. People get outta control if the bubble isn't shaping right. No matter how much they get per performance.

Dude - I have actually- used to be signed to Sony. I'm not sure what what you mean tho - can you elaborate a bit...Thanks mate.

Hey Pommie, your entitled to your views but they sure differ from mine.

Dave's voice is unique and as soulful as you could possibly wish for in the context of a hard rock band.

I'm thankful that "most of us" don't apply to me.

I've never been called a Pommie before! ;-)!

Anyway - do you really think that Dave sounds good live? I love his voice on record...like you say it is soulful, and his lyrics are superb BUT....

.....live, he shouts his way through the whole gig, and most of the time can't remember his own lyrics - this was amusing the first 50 times....but it gets stale quick. (Although saying that I saw him last year and he has started to croon his way through songs......somehow didn't feel right for Unchained - I prefered the shouting!

Anyway - it's all good! If you read my posts I was referring to the definition of an excellent singer being Tom Jones and working back from there....hence the mediocre tag.......it's not meant to be detrimental to Dave - we all know how great he was.

Dude - All of what you said is true, but when you change the perspective slightly, and just think about Sam's motive's for doing this? He has put no work into a new album, no work into promoting an album, no video-shoots, no sign-ins, no effort with lyrics on the new tunes (Learning excepted) BUT has made himself a mint of cash for the minimum possible work and is now slamming Ed.

I'm sure that most of us would have loved an album full of tunes with musicianship like that shown in UFB, but with lyrics more in keeping with the quality of the music.

I've always loved Sam - but his actions over the last few weeks have really made me question him......ticket prices, wouldn't do a full album, not turning up to Golden Ring holders / soundcheck......from someone who says the fans are all important, doesn't involve himself in these, an then comes back slamming Ed and still saying the fans are all important......I don't know - there is something wrong with this picture and we (the fans) don't know anything..........

You make a good point. As far as ticket prices, I believe him when he said they were "too high". He didn't do a full album, I believe, because Ed was out of practice on guitar. That, most of the time Sam was in the studio, Ed was to drunk to work. Sammy never does soundcheck. But for the Golden Ring holders, for this tour, he should have.
As far as the lack of promotion, I think that falls on Ed. He wanted no part of it.

But, I also feel that if Sammy shouldn't say anything negative about VH. Even if it means saying nothing. He should stay along the lines of..."Van Halen Tour was great. We'll do it again in the future..." Which he has for the most part.

For me, Sammy has his own studio. I don't know why, during his down time, which he's had plenty of this year, doesn't he work on new Van Halen stuff at home. If Ed's such a pain in the ass, call Al. Have Al be the buffer, bring over some music, work with it at home. Meet up for a few days here and there to hammer it out.
Sammy really should keep the VH door open.

Using common sense and not even thinking of loyaty with favorite members but Sammy is more responsible for the high ticket prices than any other member.

They were using his manager. The manager that Sammy used as a solo artist. Sammy brought him in because he trusted his judgement. Sammy hired him based on his experience working with him, He stuck his neck out for him. That is on Sammy just like Ray Danniels is stuck on Eddie and Alex.

Actually I admire Eddie for his lack of promotion for this tour. He did not go out and say "we are buds now and look forward to working in the future." He took the road of "if you cannot say anything nice, don't say anything at all." If he would have done what Sammy and Alex were doing, there would be 50 threads talking about how Ed had egg on his face.

For me, Sammy has his own studio. I don't know why, during his down time, which he's had plenty of this year, doesn't he work on new Van Halen stuff at home. If Ed's such a pain in the ass, call Al. Have Al be the buffer, bring over some music, work with it at home. Meet up for a few days here and there to hammer it out.
Sammy really should keep the VH door open.

I really think that's why Sammy and VH will do something again before Dave and VH. Although you could argue Ed has a better relationship with Dave than he does with Sam, Alex still seems to get along with Sam and we know Mikey is in Sam's corner. On the other hand Mike and Al can't stand Dave. Al needs to be the buffer, run interference, whatever. Let's not forget it was Al that Sam called first, not Ed.

I honestly don't think Sam and Ed don't get along when Ed is sober or at least when Ed is not falling down drunk. I think Sam gets upset with ed when he's totally sloshed and acting like a dick, if that's how ed is now, and alot of people seem to think Ed's a little nutty these days. Sam and Ed were pretty much best friends from 85-94, kinda shaky starting in 95. I think Sam really missed his buddy and wanted to re-connect with him. Once they got back together everything was probably great for a little while then Sam probably started to notice that ed was not the ed of old and that's when he started to get upset. Hell, Sammy is probably different than what Ed remembers....maybe in thiere eyes each of them is a totally different person than they used to be. Anyway, I think if Ed can sober up Sammy would be more than willing to work with vh again. He's said it a few times. He's best buds with Mike, he's still good friends with Al, it's just that he sees ed as a fall down miserable drunk and until that changes....who knows??

You know one thing that nobody every thought of (because they always assume that its because Eddie is a drunk) is that people change.

Usually it happens from 20 to 30 and not 40 to 50 but you never know. Cancer and a divorce could make you see things differently.

I have friends from when I was 17 (now 36) however some other friendships from that time have vanish. I had friends that after being apart for 4 years and then got back together, the chemistry was no longer there. I think some of this has to be attributed to Ed and Sam. They spent almost 10 years apart.

If you read interviews from somebody like Steve Lukather, he currently still talks highly of Eddie. Same for Andy Johns who is supposedly his friend. Jerry Cantrell, Mike Post, Glen Ballard, etc. All have wonderful things to say about him. Now if all of them said that he is a miserable human being now, then I would blame it all on Ed. I just think Sam and Ed are totally different then in 86.

I also don't buy into the alcohol making Eddie into this demonic figure. I know people are going to flame me for this but you are either a bad drunk, good drunk or somewhere inbetween. If you are 17 and people like to be around you drunk, chances are that when you are 57 you will be the same way. If you are 17 and get in fights, and piss off people, well you are going to be the same at 57 as well. My friends have a joke that they cannot stand me sober but when I am drunk, they will hang out with me 24-7. Of course they kid but I am a happy drunk. I have a good time and try to bring people with me.

Before people say "oh you don't know anything about alcoholics and what they are capable of..." Well my dad is one and his dad was as well. His friends for about 20 years were. Some of my friends have had problems as well. My dad acted the same from when I was old enough to know until he quit at 65. He had his nasty moments but he also had his funny moments as well.

Short story long, I think that Eddie is the same drunk as he was when he made 5150 with Sam. That is actually the one thing that has been constant. However everything else has changed. Music, divorce, solo careers, cancer, kids, age, etc. I think its more than just Eddie drinking.

Just my 15 cents.

I'm sure it's not only his drunkeness. Let's not forget, Sammy gets stoned, too. As ziggy says, people change. I'm sure it's a combination of things.

Thing is, I think Eddie get's too drunk, too often. Before, Ed could get stoned, and be what ziggy callls "a happy drunk". This might still be the case, but after all the years, it's starting to take it's toll. All I can think about is the NAMM show. He smelled like a wino. Didn't meet and greet. Couldn't play guitar...

Look...

Van Halen will never be what it once was. Dave's a great singer for what Dave sings. Hearing anyone else sing a Dave-era song just doesn't sound the same. Sammy's a different singer, who's got a different range, but flaws as well. Let's just try to accept them for what they were, and look forward to this alleged box set.

All great things come to an end. Van Halen were great.

Look...

Van Halen will never be what it once was. Dave's a great singer for what Dave sings. Hearing anyone else sing a Dave-era song just doesn't sound the same. Sammy's a different singer, who's got a different range, but flaws as well. Let's just try to accept them for what they were, and look forward to this alleged box set.

All great things come to an end. Van Halen were great.

Oh...and who cares if Ed's a drunk. Out of that drinking has come great guitar playing, and songwriting. That's all we can ask for as fans.

Let Ed live Ed's life the way he chooses.

OK - How can someone be a called a great singer but suck when singing live? Surely the definition of a great singer is someone who sounds great live, not sucks?

I can think of one boot where Dave sounded OK live (Not great....just OK) and that was the mixing desk boot from Pasadena 77. As most of us have - I have hundreds of bootlegs and realistically most of us know that Dave ain't about how 'great' his voice is/was....it's about the way his 'singing' and Ed's playing made us feel - that don't make his voice great, his attitude is but his voice ain't. Let's face it,,,,the exiting thing about VH with Dave was that we all knew it was a potential train wreck that was barely held together - but we all had to get on for the ride....Dave encapsulated that - but it don't make him a great singer....frontman yes / singer no.

Funny, I have dozens of bootlegs where DAVE sounds very good. Granted, he misses versus and often times flubs stuff because he's running around out of breath (something the contemporary TITNEY SPEERS like dance acts counter-act by lip synching). And what about the bootlegs where SAM sounds like shit and can't hit the notes, such as the Sam & Dave tour 2002 LA show? The crowd sings the refrain for "Dreams" because he's flubbing miserably and is singing a full octave too low. And on some of the sporadic boots of SAM I've heard, I've also noticed he has a penchant of lethargy, and unique ability to drone through a song devoid of any real energy or vibe. But hey, he sings every word and it's almost on-key....Yeey!! In short, he's just mailing it in often times. But whatever dude, I can't stand SAM's screechy, pseudo-man-Janice Joplin impression. It does nothing for me, his "range" lacks control and tone-quality and does not match Ed's sound, it never did.

DAVE's voice has a very unique quality too it. He's not trying to sound like anybody else, and his range was capped artificially low because:

The songs were meant to be performed live night in and night out. DAVE knew he was singing over the long haul of a grueling tour schedule. VAN HAGAR had a notoriously soft tour schedule overall, they played far less dates that Classic VAN HALEN ever did, starting with the stadium shows of OU812.

If you can't hear DAVE's high end in "Me Wise Magic" and "Can't Get This Stuff No More," your delusional lying partisan Sam-lover or just plain retarded.:)

Look...

Van Halen will never be what it once was. Dave's a great singer for what Dave sings. Hearing anyone else sing a Dave-era song just doesn't sound the same. Sammy's a different singer, who's got a different range, but flaws as well. Let's just try to accept them for what they were, and look forward to this alleged box set.
.

Thats why its time for Gary's return. He brings us the best of both worlds.
So what if his stage swagger is a bit different, the guy can sing and sings the Dave songs as well. Get him a good producer and we'd get a very good VH album as well.

Thats why its time for Gary's return. He brings us the best of both worlds.
So what if his stage swagger is a bit different, the guy can sing and sings the Dave songs as well. Get him a good producer and we'd get a very good VH album as well.

Don't think Gary wants the gig. "been there...done that". He's working on solo material right now after cashing in in Japan with a few Extreme shows.

Gary does bring great vocals, and a "different" onstage persona. Don't think the masses of VH fans are as accepting as you might be.

Funny, I have dozens of bootlegs where DAVE sounds very good. Granted, he misses versus and often times flubs stuff because he's running around out of breath (something the contemporary TITNEY SPEERS like dance acts counter-act by lip synching). And what about the bootlegs where SAM sounds like shit and can't hit the notes, such as the Sam & Dave tour 2002 LA show? The crowd sings the refrain for "Dreams" because he's flubbing miserably and is singing a full octave too low. And on some of the sporadic boots of SAM I've heard, I've also noticed he has a penchant of lethargy, and unique ability to drone through a song devoid of any real energy or vibe. But hey, he sings every word and it's almost on-key....Yeey!! In short, he's just mailing it in often times. But whatever dude, I can't stand SAM's screechy, pseudo-man-Janice Joplin impression. It does nothing for me, his "range" lacks control and tone-quality and does not match Ed's sound, it never did.

DAVE's voice has a very unique quality too it. He's not trying to sound like anybody else, and his range was capped artificially low because:

The songs were meant to be performed live night in and night out. DAVE knew he was singing over the long haul of a grueling tour schedule. VAN HAGAR had a notoriously soft tour schedule overall, they played far less dates that Classic VAN HALEN ever did, starting with the stadium shows of OU812.

If you can't hear DAVE's high end in "Me Wise Magic" and "Can't Get This Stuff No More," your delusional lying partisan Sam-lover or just plain retarded.:)

I take it you've never heard of Pro-tools or read the interviews with the producer of those tracks.

If you think that hi-end is pleasureable to listen to then go for your life!

'Delusional Sam lover / plain retarded....I'm assuming this was said in jest? ;-)

I take it you've never heard of Pro-tools or read the interviews with the producer of those tracks.

If you think that hi-end is pleasureable to listen to then go for your life!

Dude, I'm not in a "high vocal-range" contest. If that was soley what made a singer great, MICHAEL ANTHONY would own both of them. But after hearing ANTHONY's duet with DAVE on "Beer Drinkers And Hell Raisers," I sure don't want him to be the lead vocalist of my band. Though he has a great voice for backing vocals.

'Delusional Sam lover / plain retarded....I'm assuming this was said in jest? ;-)

You've quoted me out of context: Here's what I actually said:

If you can't hear DAVE's high end in "Me Wise Magic" and "Can't Get This Stuff No More," your delusional lying partisan Sam-lover or just plain retarded.

It's my opinion as a "Rothtard" I guess. That was not made as a comment meant for all fans of Hagar era VAN HALEN or whatever (to each his or her own!), merely for the people who take every opportunity to slam DAVE for his perceived shitty singing (on bootlegs) without applying the same criticism to SAM, or acknowledging that DAVE did have a good rock vocal style. That seems to be the only argument as to why VAN HAGAR was better than VAN HALEN, and it's one based on faulty logic.

And no, I did not read the interview with the engineer..

And what about the bootlegs where SAM sounds like shit and can't hit the notes, such as the Sam & Dave tour 2002 LA show? The crowd sings the refrain for "Dreams" because he's flubbing miserably and is singing a full octave too low. And on some of the sporadic boots of SAM I've heard, I've also noticed he has a penchant of lethargy, and unique ability to drone through a song devoid of any real energy or vibe. But hey, he sings every word and it's almost on-key....Yeey!! In short, he's just mailing it in often times. But whatever dude, I can't stand SAM's screechy, pseudo-man-Janice Joplin impression. It does nothing for me, his "range" lacks control and tone-quality and does not match Ed's sound, it never did.



I always found it funny that the folks who claim to hate Sammy so much, seem to know so much about him and listen to all the boots and pick apart the lyrics of Van Hagar and his solo work.

I'm a Hagar fan and I don't follow the guy as much as these dudes ......LOL

As far as Hagar's so called bad live performances as heard on bootlegs, I'll just use the excuse they use for Dave......

Watching the boot is not the same as actually being at the show. The difference is like watching a porno vs fucking. :devil:

You guys will go back and forth all day.

It suffices to say that had DLR never left VH, nobody would have any criticism of him whatsoever.

He was the perfect singer/frontman for the band's "rowdy" era. Once replaced by Hagar, they became a different, equally brilliant in their new way, band.

Dave would've sounded dumb singing "Feels So Good", and Sam would sound equally retarded singing "Everybody Wants Some".

Different singers. Different style. Different band. You can't create, or recreate chemistry. It's different with every new ingredient.

Now there will be those who'll say "not a different band", and the fact is...you're wrong. Take away any member of any band, and it's just not the same. And notice I've never said which is better, or worse. That's all subjective.

Van Halen, in all incarnations, were still one of the greatest of all time. Accept that. Revel in it. And enjoy their tunes. The decades of "Sammy/Dave/Dave/Sammy" crap is beyond old, and has become a parody of itself several times over.

You guys will go back and forth all day.

It suffices to say that had DLR never left VH, nobody would have any criticism of him whatsoever.

He was the perfect singer/frontman for the band's "rowdy" era. Once replaced by Hagar, they became a different, equally brilliant in their new way, band.

Dave would've sounded dumb singing "Feels So Good", and Sam would sound equally retarded singing "Everybody Wants Some".

Different singers. Different style. Different band. You can't create, or recreate chemistry. It's different with every new ingredient.

Now there will be those who'll say "not a different band", and the fact is...you're wrong. Take away any member of any band, and it's just not the same. And notice I've never said which is better, or worse. That's all subjective.

Van Halen, in all incarnations, were still one of the greatest of all time. Accept that. Revel in it. And enjoy their tunes. The decades of "Sammy/Dave/Dave/Sammy" crap is beyond old, and has become a parody of itself several times over.


Fine, "we'll call it a draw!"
http://captainnormal.typepad.com/captainnormal/images/black.jpg
:D

I always found it funny that the folks who claim to hate Sammy so much, seem to know so much about him and listen to all the boots and pick apart the lyrics of Van Hagar and his solo work.

I'm a Hagar fan and I don't follow the guy as much as these dudes ......LOL
[/b]

I don't really hate SAM. I just love DAVE.


As far as Hagar's so called bad live performances as heard on bootlegs, I'll just use the excuse they use for Dave......

Fair enough, that's all I'm saying. You can't just take a couple of drunken performances at The US Festival and use it to define DAVE's singing live. Just like I can't take one bad HAGAR performance when he's hopped up on tequila and say SAMMY sucks live.

Watching the boot is not the same as actually being at the show. The difference is like watching a porno vs fucking. :devil:

Very true!:D You can look at vaction pictures or you can go on vactions!:thumb:

Unless of course you get a killer soundboard or studio released live album.

It suffices to say that had DLR never left VH, nobody would have any criticism of him whatsoever.



I doubt it, I have a feeling we'd be arguing about "old VH" vs "New VH" much like Aerosmith. :p

Complaining about the keyboards and such. It already started when "Jump" went number one.

I doubt it, I have a feeling we'd be arguing about "old VH" vs "New VH" much like Aerosmith. :p

Complaining about the keyboards and such. It already started when "Jump" went number one.


Actually, it started on VH's best album: FAIR WARNING (and rumor has it, earlier on WACF and VHII even) I never got the whole "keyboards=no integrity" crap. The best ground-breaking rock from the likes of THE WHO or THE 'STONES have keys or synthesizer. The only issue is when keys dominate the song, turning it into pop fluff...The problem with VH is that he can't play guitar and keyboards at the same time.

[QUOTE=Nickdfresh]Dude, I'm not in a "high vocal-range" contest. If that was soley what made a singer great, MICHAEL ANTHONY would own both of them. But after hearing ANTHONY's duet with DAVE on "Beer Drinkers And Hell Raisers," I sure don't want him to be the lead vocalist of my band. Though he has a great voice for backing vocals.

DUde - Neither am I, it's pretty common knowledge that the vocals you refer to in the DLR tracks on BOV1 were done with the aid of Pro-tools 'cause Dave cannot sing that high. I am not down on Dave - jesus, the man was an icon of my youth......I wanted to look like Dave an play geeetar like Ed. Dave's book is one of the most entertaining I've ever read and in his day as a frontman he was untouchable......BUT he cannot sing live, has never been able to do so, but because of his enormous charisma - he could get away with it when no-one else could have. I am not referring to specific gigs - but if you take a soundboard / bootleg of Hagar, and a soundboard bootleg of Dave........Sam will remember 99% of the words and sing 99% in tune...whereas Dave will remember about 70% of the words and sing 70% in tune.........it's just the way it is. It's not taking anything away from Dave - he'd be the first to admit that CVH wasn't about that - it was about the emotion it stirred inside.

....and don't call me pro-Hagar....I started this thread dude! ;-)

DUde - Neither am I, it's pretty common knowledge that the vocals you refer to in the DLR tracks on BOV1 were done with the aid of Pro-tools 'cause Dave cannot sing that high.

Oh give me a break man. :rolleyes: This is the kind of delusional shit I'm talking about...Yeah, what did ED say this, or did one of the delusional little sycophants like their asshole manager RAY DANIELS say this? Here's an idea, if DAVE can't sing that high, then, why not just lower the key of the song? :sssh:

Oh, how convenient...(EVH to the public) "**Sigh** DAVE can't sing anymore, I know, we'll hire GArY CHERONE and become New HALEN III! He's a much better singer! See people. We're not a couple of assholes ruining our band, we really gave DAVE a shot, but he won't do just what we tell him...er...He just can't do it anymore. He needs computer programs to hit the highnotes! That's why we've hired GArY CHERONE! We're going to start over because neither DAVE nor SAMMY can sing live anymore. Because we enjoy never recording and not releasing albums! Fuck you very much fans, er...I mean...thank you very much fans..."

Spare me this self-serving load of horsehsit! Ed also said DAVE never wrote those lyrics (after ROTH basically said in an interview he was slamming ED). I don't believe that for a second, nor any of the self-serving bullshit revisionist history flowing out of the island of 5150.

VAN HALEN also said after they fired SAMMY that they did so because he had trouble singing live anymore! I guess no one repeats those rumors over here. Did you hear half the shit HAGAR said after he broke with ED and the gang? Funny how no one ever talks about that.

I am not down on Dave - jesus, the man was an icon of my youth......I wanted to look like Dave an play geeetar like Ed. Dave's book is one of the most entertaining I've ever read and in his day as a frontman he was untouchable......BUT he cannot sing live, has never been able to do so, but because of his enormous charisma - he could get away with it when no-one else could have. I am not referring to specific gigs - but if you take a soundboard / bootleg of Hagar, and a soundboard bootleg of Dave........Sam will remember 99% of the words and sing 99% in tune...whereas Dave will remember about 70% of the words and sing 70% in tune.........it's just the way it is. It's not taking anything away from Dave - he'd be the first to admit that CVH wasn't about that - it was about the emotion it stirred inside.

....and don't call me pro-Hagar....I started this thread dude! ;-)


Yeah, your a real fan of DAVE. You believe every shitty thing the sisters have ever thrown at him in an interview. "I forgot the fucking words" means he literally "forgot" the words every night when he said that. And your exactly correct it was about emotion, that doesn't mean "DAVE couldn't sing live," he did sing live, a hell of a lot more often than the lazy VAN HAGAR incarnation ever did. And I don't care if HAGAR sings every word or note, he sang them lethargically. Quality over quantity is what I'm after. Why even go to the concert. Sit home and play the CD's if you want to hear 99% of the singing. But your basic premise is that DAVE could not sing live because he was about the party or something, whatever. He could and did sing live, and while he spent much of the gig airborne.

Yeah, your a real fan of DAVE. You believe every shitty thing the sisters have ever thrown at him in an interview. "I forgot the fucking words" means he literally "forgot" the words every night when he said that. And your exactly correct it was about emotion, that doesn't mean "DAVE couldn't sing live," he did sing live, a hell of a lot more often than the lazy VAN HAGAR incarnation ever did. And I don't care if HAGAR sings every word or note, he sang them lethargically. Quality over quantity is what I'm after. Why even go to the concert. Sit home and play the CD's if you want to hear 99% of the singing. But your basic premise is that DAVE could not sing live because he was about the party or something, whatever. He could and did sing live, and while he spent much of the gig airborne.


This isn't exactly accurate, Nick my man, and you know it. Why are you so heated of late? You're not being as objective as usual. :)

Just an FYI but 5150 just went digital about a 2 years ago. It was strictly analog therefore no Pro-Tools.

BOBW could have used Pro-Tools but not BOV1.

This isn't exactly accurate, Nick my man, and you know it. Why are you so heated of late? You're not being as objective as usual. :)


I hate lies. Well, I never said ROTH was perfect. But c'mon, they used "studio magic" to fix his broken 'wittle voice? Doubtful I should say. The problems with ROTH and VAN HALEN boys has nothing to do with his voice, and never did. It goes back to the 1986 he said, she said era; but clearly it was VAN HAGAR that slung mud at DAVE first. But I haven't read the exact interview, but I think that's crap. What would you say if they began to speed Edward's guitar up ala' ACE FREELY by studio tape-speed trickery. I know you and LG99 would be fumin.' Anybody can say such things and turn it from rumor to the "truth."

But the only thing I ever really heard ED say about DAVE's singing on BOV1 was that it took a few takes to coax it out of him because he hadn't sang in seven months.

Just an FYI but 5150 just went digital about a 2 years ago. It was strictly analog therefore no Pro-Tools.

BOBW could have used Pro-Tools but not BOV1.

Interesting.

I don't think they would use PRO TOOLS in anycase. It was only invented in 1991.

I hate lies. Well, I never said ROTH was perfect. But c'mon, they used "studio magic" to fix his broken 'wittle voice? Doubtful I should say. The problems with ROTH and VAN HALEN boys has nothing to do with his voice, and never did. It goes back to the 1986 he said, she said era; but clearly it was VAN HAGAR that slung mud at DAVE first. But I haven't read the exact interview, but I think that's crap. What would you say if they began to speed Edward's guitar up ala' ACE FREELY by studio tape-speed trickery. I know you and LG99 would be fumin.' Anybody can say such things and turn it from rumor to the "truth."

But the only thing I ever really heard ED say about DAVE's singing on BOV1 was that it took a few takes to coax it out of him because he hadn't sang in seven months.

Who's saying that? I must've missed it.

DUde - Neither am I, it's pretty common knowledge that the vocals you refer to in the DLR tracks on BOV1 were done with the aid of Pro-tools 'cause Dave cannot sing that high. I am not down on Dave - jesus, the man was an icon of my youth...

:rolleyes:

Interesting.

I don't think they would use PRO TOOLS in anycase. It was only invented in 1991.

If you read the last guitar interview Eddie did (Guitar World from last year....maybe May or June) he talked in depth about his studio. Talked about ripping everything out and how he had to relearn everything from scratch. I also think he ripped anybody using pro-tools because its not real but I could be wrong.

BTW, Eddie talked at length after BOV1 about how it was hard to do vocals for Roth. If you can remember there was an earthquake in LA and Roth's house was messed up pretty good. He could not even sleep there and actually had to sleep in a cardboard box outside. Sleeping in the cold caused his voice to get messed up and was really out shape for singing. He ended up taking his insurance company to court for the damage to his voice. I have no link but recall that information around 96-97.

Eddie though said that Roth tried very hard and he gave him credit for what he did. He was impressed by Dave's work ethic.

If you read the last guitar interview Eddie did (Guitar World from last year....maybe May or June) he talked in depth about his studio. Talked about ripping everything out and how he had to relearn everything from scratch. I also think he ripped anybody using pro-tools because its not real but I could be wrong.

BTW, Eddie talked at length after BOV1 about how it was hard to do vocals for Roth. If you can remember there was an earthquake in LA and Roth's house was messed up pretty good. He could not even sleep there and actually had to sleep in a cardboard box outside. Sleeping in the cold caused his voice to get messed up and was really out shape for singing. He ended up taking his insurance company to court for the damage to his voice. I have no link but recall that information around 96-97.

Eddie though said that Roth tried very hard and he gave him credit for what he did. He was impressed by Dave's work ethic.

Ed mentioned that in the radio promo for Best Of Vol 1, about Dave's voice being shot but he said he hung in there and kept at it and he say he had to hand it to him for being a sport about it.

If you read the last guitar interview Eddie did (Guitar World from last year....maybe May or June) he talked in depth about his studio. Talked about ripping everything out and how he had to relearn everything from scratch. I also think he ripped anybody using pro-tools because its not real but I could be wrong.

BTW, Eddie talked at length after BOV1 about how it was hard to do vocals for Roth. If you can remember there was an earthquake in LA and Roth's house was messed up pretty good. He could not even sleep there and actually had to sleep in a cardboard box outside. Sleeping in the cold caused his voice to get messed up and was really out shape for singing. He ended up taking his insurance company to court for the damage to his voice. I have no link but recall that information around 96-97.

Eddie though said that Roth tried very hard and he gave him credit for what he did. He was impressed by Dave's work ethic.


Earthquake? David Lee Roth had to sleep in a cardboard box? I was living in Santa Barbara at the time, could someone from LA refresh my memory about the great Pasadena quake of '96 where people were displaced from their homes and relegated to sleeping inside boxes?

Earthquake? David Lee Roth had to sleep in a cardboard box? I was living in Santa Barbara at the time, could someone from LA refresh my memory about the great Pasadena quake of '96 where people were displaced from their homes and relegated to sleeping inside boxes?

LOL, I remember that rumor too...about Dave sleeping in a box. Sure, the Pasadena Hilton was full. :rolleyes:

Oh give me a break man. :rolleyes: This is the kind of delusional shit I'm talking about...Yeah, what did ED say this, or did one of the delusional little sycophants like their asshole manager RAY DANIELS say this? Here's an idea, if DAVE can't sing that high, then, why not just lower the key of the song? :sssh:

Oh, how convenient...(EVH to the public) "**Sigh** DAVE can't sing anymore, I know, we'll hire GArY CHERONE and become New HALEN III! He's a much better singer! See people. We're not a couple of assholes ruining our band, we really gave DAVE a shot, but he won't do just what we tell him...er...He just can't do it anymore. He needs computer programs to hit the highnotes! That's why we've hired GArY CHERONE! We're going to start over because neither DAVE nor SAMMY can sing live anymore. Because we enjoy never recording and not releasing albums! Fuck you very much fans, er...I mean...thank you very much fans..."

Spare me this self-serving load of horsehsit! Ed also said DAVE never wrote those lyrics (after ROTH basically said in an interview he was slamming ED). I don't believe that for a second, nor any of the self-serving bullshit revisionist history flowing out of the island of 5150.

VAN HALEN also said after they fired SAMMY that they did so because he had trouble singing live anymore! I guess no one repeats those rumors over here. Did you hear half the shit HAGAR said after he broke with ED and the gang? Funny how no one ever talks about that.




Yeah, your a real fan of DAVE. You believe every shitty thing the sisters have ever thrown at him in an interview. "I forgot the fucking words" means he literally "forgot" the words every night when he said that. And your exactly correct it was about emotion, that doesn't mean "DAVE couldn't sing live," he did sing live, a hell of a lot more often than the lazy VAN HAGAR incarnation ever did. And I don't care if HAGAR sings every word or note, he sang them lethargically. Quality over quantity is what I'm after. Why even go to the concert. Sit home and play the CD's if you want to hear 99% of the singing. But your basic premise is that DAVE could not sing live because he was about the party or something, whatever. He could and did sing live, and while he spent much of the gig airborne.



OK - I'm not a fan of Dave....I haven't spent money seeing him at Donnington 88 when 2 folks got killed during Guns and Roses, and whilst people were still trying to crawl out of the crush during DLR and basically dying - Dave came out with the great line 'Get the fuck off my stage'

I never saw him on his first UK headline date at Hammersmith a couple of months later. I then never saw him at B'ham NEC a couple of months later again, I then never saw him again at Birmingham NEC on the piss poor 'Lil Ain't Enough tour, I then never went to see him last year at Wolverhampton.

I'd like to know your definition of 'fan', followed by your definition of 'obsessive bunny-boiler who believes his hero is king of the world'.

Dave spent most of his time airborn? Is that right, well I've seen my bootlegs and if you were such a fan you'd know that he never does any kind of spin / jump / whatever whilst he's 'singing'...he waits to the end of a line and then jumps. (Apart from 84 when the jumping and dancing was playing lead and the singing was definitely co-pilot......jeez - I'm starting to sound like you.

Take off the beer goggles dude.....it's 2005 and we're not delusional anymore!

oh - and no Eddie always appreciated Dave's effort on those tunes on BOV1, why do you think that because your hero's ability is being questioned that there is some sort of conspiracy going on?????? Without checking I can't remember the producers name for those tracks - but in an interview it was insinuated that Dave;s voice was heavily processed in the mix.

BOV may have been recorded at 5150 - but i betcha it wasn't mastered there.

But then again - what would I know, I'm not a fan like you.....I wish I could be as realistic / open minded and objective.

oh - and no Eddie always appreciated Dave's effort on those tunes on BOV1, why do you think that because your hero's ability is being questioned that there is some sort of conspiracy going on?????? Without checking I can't remember the producers name for those tracks - but in an interview it was insinuated that Dave;s voice was heavily processed in the mix.

BOV may have been recorded at 5150 - but i betcha it wasn't mastered there.

But then again - what would I know, I'm not a fan like you.....I wish I could be as realistic / open minded and objective.

Funny. But aren't you the one that started this thread, because your guitar hero was called out by SAMMY HAGAR? Gosh! How dare anyone rebut what they perceive to be total bullshit! You "betcha" it wasn't mastered at 5150? So you're adding to speculation without any real evidence because you now want to believe that Dave's voice was digitally altered because you either have to be right, or you have an ulterior motivation. Processed is one thing, all of the instruments are processed or mixed. Raising the pitch is something else entirely...

If you so "realistic, open minded and objective," then why do you persist in the absurdity that DAVE's voice was digitally enhanced when pretty good evidence has been offered (and not even by me) to the contrary? It's bullshit! You just need justification as to why your guitar hero "is" VAN HALEN and how the two singers were the lessor component. You clearly don't know what you are talking about from this perspective. I could care less who the producer was...DAVE's voice was no more "processed" then the rest of the track components were.

Again...If DAVE couldn't hit the key, why not just lower it?

Funny. But aren't you the one that started this thread, because your guitar hero was called out by SAMMY HAGAR? Gosh! How dare anyone rebut what they perceive to be total bullshit! You "betcha" it wasn't mastered at 5150? So you're adding to speculation without any real evidence because you now want to believe that Dave's voice was digitally altered because you either have to be right, or you have an ulterior motivation. Processed is one thing, all of the instruments are processed or mixed. Raising the pitch is something else entirely...

If you so "realistic, open minded and objective," then why do you persist in the absurdity that DAVE's voice was digitally enhanced when pretty good evidence has been offered (and not even by me) to the contrary? It's bullshit! You just need justification as to why your guitar hero "is" VAN HALEN and how the two singers were the lessor component. You clearly don't know what you are talking about from this perspective. I could care less who the producer was...DAVE's voice was no more "processed" then the rest of the track components were.

Again...If DAVE couldn't hit the key, why not just lower it?


Well the they were already down a half step, so I don't think they wanted to go lower then that.

And although Dave's vocal's are rusty on those tunes, I never had a problem with them. I actually thought he was really going for it on MWM, and it seemed to jive with the rest of the song. And Mikey's background vox mixed with Dave on top is always gonna sound good to me. So IMO I don't think his vocals were enhanced in anyway. He sounds the same on the DLR Band album.

WTF is this thread about again???

Oh yea, and I remember reading in Dave's book about Ed not wanting to warm up Dave by jammin on some CVH. Now I don't think Roth's word is the gospel, but if that's true I think that's lame. That whole baby steps thing was dumb. Fuck that. This is VAN HALEN. Go for it boys!

Oh well...

OK - I'm not a fan of Dave....I haven't spent money seeing him at Donnington 88 when 2 folks got killed during Guns and Roses, and whilst people were still trying to crawl out of the crush during DLR and basically dying - Dave came out with the great line 'Get the fuck off my stage'

I never saw him on his first UK headline date at Hammersmith a couple of months later. I then never saw him at B'ham NEC a couple of months later again, I then never saw him again at Birmingham NEC on the piss poor 'Lil Ain't Enough tour, I then never went to see him last year at Wolverhampton.

I'd like to know your definition of 'fan', followed by your definition of 'obsessive bunny-boiler who believes his hero is king of the world'.

Dave spent most of his time airborn? Is that right, well I've seen my bootlegs and if you were such a fan you'd know that he never does any kind of spin / jump / whatever whilst he's 'singing'...he waits to the end of a line and then jumps. (Apart from 84 when the jumping and dancing was playing lead and the singing was definitely co-pilot......jeez - I'm starting to sound like you.

Take off the beer goggles dude.....it's 2005 and we're not delusional anymore!


Well, props for seeing DAVE so often, I'll give you that. But I never claimed DAVE was singing whilst airborne. But the kicks, the running around, the constant movement on stage take their toll on and wind any singer, even the ones in the best of shape. Which again is why most dance acts lip synch.

And the VH shows I saw in '84, and then again in 88' were anything but the singer copilot. I thought ED was falling asleep at the Monster's of ROCK show I saw. Not that he played badly, but he sure didn't move as he previously had four years earlier.

Well the they were already down a half step, so I don't think they wanted to go lower then that.

And although Dave's vocal's are rusty on those tunes, I never had a problem with them. I actually thought he was really going for it on MWM, and it seemed to jive with the rest of the song. And Mikey's background vox mixed with Dave on top is always gonna sound good to me. So IMO I don't think his vocals were enhanced in anyway. He sounds the same on the DLR Band album.

WTF is this thread about again???

Oh yea, and I remember reading in Dave's book about Ed not wanting to warm up Dave by jammin on some CVH. Now I don't think Roth's word is the gospel, but if that's true I think that's lame. That whole baby steps thing was dumb. Fuck that. This is VAN HALEN. Go for it boys!

Oh well...


How the hell are ya' SUCKA?:D Yeah, I've never stated DAVE was any ROBERT PLANT or a great rock vocalist (even though I think PLANT is a tad overrated...putting on flame retardant suit now:))

Hell, I still haven't read DAVE's book, so I'm hardly a supa' fan at all...But from what I heard in the 04' tour sound checks, I'm betting ED may be regretting that now...

How the hell are ya' SUCKA?:D Yeah, I've never stated DAVE was any ROBERT PLANT or a great rock vocalist (even though I think PLANT is a tad overrated...putting on flame retardant suit now:))

Hell, I still haven't read DAVE's book, so I'm hardly a supa' fan at all...But from what I heeard in the 04' tour sound checks, I'm betting ED may be regretting that now...

Ok, I'm not touching that Robert Plant comment. You tryin to get yoself hurt round these parts son?? :p

I don't care what people say about Dave's vocals. I just always liked his voice cause it sounds cooler then hell. Just as Ed had a distintive sound with his guitar, Dave had that with his voice, and that's a hard thing to accomplish. Then you add in Mad Anthony and Big Al on the jungle drums. Shit maaan, pass me a beer I say and turn up them tunes. :thumb:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b395/crs5150/Dave.jpg

Ok, I'm not touching that Robert Plant comment. You tryin to get yoself hurt round these parts son?? :p

I love ZEPPELIN now more than I ever did in high school. Every other song on the radio was "Stairway to Heaven." Now it's down to every fifth song on classic rock radio is ZEP. I love PLANT and his singing, but it's always befuddled me as too why so many copped him.

I don't care what people say about Dave's vocals. I just always liked his voice cause it sounds cooler then hell. Just as Ed had a distintive sound with his guitar, Dave had that with his voice, and that's a hard thing to accomplish. Then you add in Mad Anthony and Big Al on the jungle drums. Shit maaan, pass me a beer I say and turn up them tunes. :thumb: http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b395/crs5150/Dave.jpg

Exactly. Sometimes he cuts out vocals live and all that. But I recall an interview where talking about his attitude towards (then VAN HALEN) music in general, he said he's never took it too seriously like the other 80's "big music" bands. To paraphrase, he never thought what they were doing was really that important and he rejected pretentiousness of DYLAN or of The BEATLES, although he loved both. How wrong was he?:(

P.S. Sometimes I wonder what would have happened if the whole "Pretty Women"/DIVER DOWN pressures never occured, and if the band took some time off in 1982, and began to move more into the direction of FAIR WARNING; with more of a serious lyrical content and a deep, rich layered "brownsound."

Guess that's what I love most about CVH. Just that carefree attitude, and they haven't had that in awhile. Such ashame too.

Guys - I think we are all getting a bit confused here or mis-construing what each other is saying......bottom line - it appears we are all fans of Dave - hell all I said was that he ain't a great singer, live he's mediocre - but in the studio we all know he sounds great.

I started this thread 'cause I was hacked off at Sammy for trying to create the illusion that he had nothing to do with ticket prices and wanted them lower, for saying that an album was too much effort, and that he just wanted to get out and play live for the cash the promoters were putting up that would come in real handy for his other business ventures....so I was really questioning his motives.....

Guess that's what I love most about CVH. Just that carefree attitude, and they haven't had that in awhile. Such ashame too.

A band like Van Halen doesn't come around that often and particularly CVH!
Going commercial and radio friendly with Hagar was an attempt to capture that moment that magic that CVH was all about!

That cloned carefree attitude with Hagar and his early and overly mimicking of Dave paled in comparison to what CVH signified!

oh - and no Eddie always appreciated Dave's effort on those tunes on BOV1, why do you think that because your hero's ability is being questioned that there is some sort of conspiracy going on?????? Without checking I can't remember the producers name for those tracks - but in an interview it was insinuated that Dave;s voice was heavily processed in the mix.

BOV may have been recorded at 5150 - but i betcha it wasn't mastered there.

But then again - what would I know, I'm not a fan like you.....I wish I could be as realistic / open minded and objective.

You have no idea what mastering is do you? Suffice to say the vocals are completed and the tunes mixed before you get to the mastering stage. Any pitch correction would be done before mixing the tunes.

I have no idea if they used Pro Tools or not. Even if they didn't have it at 5150 the tapes could easily be taken to another studio and transferred. Happens all the time.

A band like Van Halen doesn't come around that often and particularly CVH!
Going commercial and radio friendly with Hagar was an attempt to capture that moment that magic that CVH was all about!

That cloned carefree attitude with Hagar and his early and overly mimicking of Dave paled in comparison to what CVH signified!

Does the name Albert mean anything to you?

:sssh:

Any excuse to post the following:

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:sssh:

Any excuse to post the following:

http://usera.imagecave.com/Bard/dago.gif
:funny: :funny: :funny:

You have no idea what mastering is do you? Suffice to say the vocals are completed and the tunes mixed before you get to the mastering stage. Any pitch correction would be done before mixing the tunes.

I have no idea if they used Pro Tools or not. Even if they didn't have it at 5150 the tapes could easily be taken to another studio and transferred. Happens all the time.

This is true but the only problem I have with this is that with the digital age, everything is leaked.

Therefore if they did ship off masters to another studio, some engineer would make a copy and it would eventually leak out like everything else out there.

However there are no demo's for the 96 sessions, no demo's for the second album with Gary and no demo's for the 2000 Roth sessions.

Therefore I think Eddie still keeps everything in house because something would have been leaked.

Happens to every other artist these days.

You have no idea what mastering is do you? Suffice to say the vocals are completed and the tunes mixed before you get to the mastering stage. Any pitch correction would be done before mixing the tunes.

I have no idea if they used Pro Tools or not. Even if they didn't have it at 5150 the tapes could easily be taken to another studio and transferred. Happens all the time.

From your comment above it appears you certainly dont!

I assume you've never heard the term 'Fix it in the mix'?

This is true but the only problem I have with this is that with the digital age, everything is leaked.

Therefore if they did ship off masters to another studio, some engineer would make a copy and it would eventually leak out like everything else out there.

However there are no demo's for the 96 sessions, no demo's for the second album with Gary and no demo's for the 2000 Roth sessions.

Therefore I think Eddie still keeps everything in house because something would have been leaked.

Happens to every other artist these days.

Good points Ziggy, and I like your Top 10 list. :thumb:

From your comment above it appears you certainly dont!

I assume you've never heard the term 'Fix it in the mix'?


Of course I have. I even know what that means and how its done and clearly you don't. Mixing has nothing to do with mastering.

You make pitch corrections prior to mixing so if the vocal track in this case can't be salvaged you can go back and re cut it again without wasting a lot of time mixing an incomplete recording.

Can't defend your position so you try to attack me. Unfortunately all you did is confirm your ignorance on the topic. Lame.........

This is true but the only problem I have with this is that with the digital age, everything is leaked.

Therefore if they did ship off masters to another studio, some engineer would make a copy and it would eventually leak out like everything else out there.

However there are no demo's for the 96 sessions, no demo's for the second album with Gary and no demo's for the 2000 Roth sessions.

Therefore I think Eddie still keeps everything in house because something would have been leaked.

Happens to every other artist these days.

Certainly possible but I would think they could walk the tapes over personally and do the work and leave with their stuff in hand. Like I said, I have no clue what they did, its just a possiblity. Another possibilty is that they rented a PT rig for a week. They aren't necessarily limited to the tools at 5150 is all I was getting at.

Of course I have. I even know what that means and how its done and clearly you don't. Mixing has nothing to do with mastering.

You make pitch corrections prior to mixing so if the vocal track in this case can't be salvaged you can go back and re cut it again without wasting a lot of time mixing an incomplete recording.

Can't defend your position so you try to attack me. Unfortunately all you did is confirm your ignorance on the topic. Lame.........

Mate - Why are you calling me lame? I don't even know you...where have I attacked you?

You have answered your own question 'You make make pitch corrections prior to mixing.....' - How do you think that is done - bingo - harmonizers, pro-tools et-al.

Confirm my ignorance? Mate - I've had records deals, nothing major, but I've done it, I've been in a lot of studios, any vocal correction is done after the recording - obviously they try to get the best take (sometimes taking 100's of goes), and then they perform the pitch correction as part of the mastering / mixing process. (Which is pretty much what you and I have already said - but you a getting wound up about......what?

I'm trying to understand why you are so defensive.......I haven't seen anyone voraciously defend anything you have said, the world accepts that Dave ain't the best singer in the world - but you don't. That's fine - just don't start calling me lame via the protection of a chat-room.

Who knows what the heck happened but I don't think they did anything with DLR's voice.

His is pretty bad at the end of CGTSTNM and I would think that they would have fixed that as well. Sounds like he swallowed a box of brillo pads.

Thanks for the comment on my top 10 list there LittleGuitars99!!! Glad that people seemed to like it

Thanks for the comment on my top 10 list there LittleGuitars99!!! Glad that people seemed to like it

I am a big Sam fan, but he is wearing thin on me, Dave never chirped this much when the whole 84 thing and 96 thing happened, it seems the only way Sam can get attention is by bringing up Van Halen, he will always make cash off of the Cabo Wabo, but I am beginning more and more to think he needed the 2004 tour to keep his profile up to do his side stuff. Great for him if he can pull off the free tour thing, but seriously, in another 2 years who in the fuck is going to care?

Sammy needs to just SHUTTHE FUCK UP and just be a solo artist from now on.
For someone who claims to be so happy being a solo artist, he seems to dwell on Eddie & Van Halen too much. They should just sever all ties civily, and Mike make amends with Eddie and Alex and get a brand new singer and inject some life into the stagnant band.

They mightnot get the commercial success that they have once enjoyed, or sell out big arenas. But they can do smaller venues or go out on package tours with other "no longer at their top" bands.

JOURNEY was once one of the biggest bands in the world. Steve Perry didn't want to be a "rock star" anymore and he parted ways with the band. They found a replacement who can really sing and sounds a bit like Perry and they seem very happy just making and playing music. Their loyal fans buy it and see their shows and they are content with doing that.
Maybe Van Halen should just take a page from Journey and go their (soory for the pun) Separate Ways with both Sammy and Dave.

The legacy of VH will live forever. No matter what they do.

Was wondering when a Journey reference would surface.....at least they put out new records (and including copies with the ticket prices at many of the shows this summer, I guess this an attempt to justify the $85 per for the venue near me, which holds about 1500 people) .

Sam was a good fit when DLR bolted - he might have repainted the train a little bit, but it kept rolling - AND the argument that EVH cannot write a hit song is silly, he needs a foil to make him push the limits a bit, which Sam did as well as the fact that they had matured a bit and EVH finally got to do a few new things that DLR "You're a guitar hero, man. Why do we need keyboards?" did not want any part of.

Fast forward - EVH still wants to be a musician first, rock star second.

Sam has (along with Kenny Chesney) tried to carve the J. Buffett 'good-times-boozin-in-the-sun-flip/flops and sunglasses-at-the-beach' empire into equal halves - since JB is starting to ride off into the sun. Sam is no dummy, hitch a marketable product to a slickly produced campaign to create the illusion of a 'lifestyle' and voila, the cash registers runneth over. And, just like JB (margaritaville products)- he can tour with his band for fun....marketing and selling his product all along the way.

Therein lies the disconnect - EVH=musician, Sam=marketing.

To some extent, DLR was the same thing as Sam - sure they both can sing and get the crowd really into it with live shows, albeit with different styles; but both were using some marketing savvy along the way. DLR with his 'lock up your daughters, lock up your wives; because VH is coming to town' mentality, and Sam using the 'Cabo lifestyle-everyone join the party' groove.

The landscape has changed and Sam knows it, seems like EVH still believes that the band puts out a record and then goes on tour and everything will be fine, with minimal effort. Folks have so many choices as to how/when/where and how much to pay for music in all mediums that the classic 'rock-n-roll business model' is just that, a classic. Perhaps he will have to lift one of those very talented fingers to make it happen for them now. I, like many others on this board, have been around since the beginning and used to get all geeked up when VH was on ROCKLINE every now and again, it was an event to listen to that mayhem. These days it seems that virtually every artist is available for chat on their website, or does interviews at the drop of the hat - because they know that the sound-bite world we live in now has built a society with a micro attetnion span and every effort has to be made to at least get a piece of it.

$.02

Mate - Why are you calling me lame? I don't even know you...where have I attacked you?

You have answered your own question 'You make make pitch corrections prior to mixing.....' - How do you think that is done - bingo - harmonizers, pro-tools et-al.

Confirm my ignorance? Mate - I've had records deals, nothing major, but I've done it, I've been in a lot of studios, any vocal correction is done after the recording - obviously they try to get the best take (sometimes taking 100's of goes), and then they perform the pitch correction as part of the mastering / mixing process. (Which is pretty much what you and I have already said - but you a getting wound up about......what?

I'm trying to understand why you are so defensive.......I haven't seen anyone voraciously defend anything you have said, the world accepts that Dave ain't the best singer in the world - but you don't. That's fine - just don't start calling me lame via the protection of a chat-room.


Actually I haven't commented on Dave's voice at all.

As for the rest, in one sentence you talk about pitch correction being done prior to mixing. In the very next paragraph you talk about pitch correction as part of the Mastering/Mixing process. Overlooking the fact that you can't fix a vocal pitch problem in mastering and that mixing and mastering are completely different things, which one are you going with here?

As for where you attacked me:
From your comment above it appears you certainly dont!

I assume you've never heard the term 'Fix it in the mix'?

Ring any bells? Your sarcasm is dripping from that comment. You contradict yourself and make clear mistatements and then lay that comment on me?

Can't imagine why I would take issue with that.........

[QUOTE=TheArchitect]Actually I haven't commented on Dave's voice at all.

As for the rest, in one sentence you talk about pitch correction being done prior to mixing. In the very next paragraph you talk about pitch correction as part of the Mastering/Mixing process. Overlooking the fact that you can't fix a vocal pitch problem in mastering and that mixing and mastering are completely different things, which one are you going with here?

As for where you attacked me:
From your comment above it appears you certainly dont!

I assume you've never heard the term 'Fix it in the mix'?

Ring any bells? Your sarcasm is dripping from that comment. You contradict yourself and make clear mistatements and then lay that comment on me?

Dude - You can adjust the pitch very easily in the master / mix process......the signal from the individual channel that in this case the vocal would be on is taken out of an aux out into an effect and back to aux in.....this is done AFTER recording and during mastering / mixing. This is standard practice so that the vocal doesn't have to be re-done to infinity by an artist that can't sing.....Stock Aitken and Waterman made a career (and a fortune ) out of this process.

I started this thread 'cause I was hacked off at Sammy for trying to create the illusion that he had nothing to do with ticket prices and wanted them lower, for saying that an album was too much effort, and that he just wanted to get out and play live for the cash the promoters were putting up that would come in real handy for his other business ventures....so I was really questioning his motives.....

All good points that you brought up, it does make one wonder.

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I've never been called a Pommie before! ;-)!

Anyway - do you really think that Dave sounds good live? I love his voice on record...like you say it is soulful, and his lyrics are superb BUT....

.....live, he shouts his way through the whole gig, and most of the time can't remember his own lyrics - this was amusing the first 50 times....but it gets stale quick. (Although saying that I saw him last year and he has started to croon his way through songs......somehow didn't feel right for Unchained - I prefered the shouting!

Anyway - it's all good! If you read my posts I was referring to the definition of an excellent singer being Tom Jones and working back from there....hence the mediocre tag.......it's not meant to be detrimental to Dave - we all know how great he was.

Hey! Great post but I have to disagree, the latest live clips of Dave are about the most together I have seen him. The pommie quip is obviously about a little series on at the moment called the ashes. The last test, that England won, is the best bloody test match I have ever seen. Magnificent competition. I just need a good nights sleep.

You have no idea what mastering is do you? .

When I listen to Three I think the above comment could be aimed squarely at the Van Halen camp, cause that album was mastered like a dog. The whole recording had all the dynamics completely eliminated from it. Compression and Limiting great things when in the hands of the rare few that know how to use them.

Hey! Great post but I have to disagree, the latest live clips of Dave are about the most together I have seen him. The pommie quip is obviously about a little series on at the moment called the ashes. The last test, that England won, is the best bloody test match I have ever seen. Magnificent competition. I just need a good nights sleep.

Hey mate - it's quite superb....we've got an Aussie in the office and I've just come in and he's taking some real stick......great!

I'm sure that's it for England though.......the Aussies are too strong.

Hey mate - it's quite superb....we've got an Aussie in the office and I've just come in and he's taking some real stick......great!

I'm sure that's it for England though.......the Aussies are too strong.

sorry that this is in the wrong thread! It's great to see an agressive England give the Aussies a bit of their own medicine. I feel sorry for your Aussie co-worker.

When I listen to Three I think the above comment could be aimed squarely at the Van Halen camp, cause that album was mastered like a dog. The whole recording had all the dynamics completely eliminated from it. Compression and Limiting great things when in the hands of the rare few that know how to use them.

Mate - I know what you are saying here.......but - have you a hi-fi that eliminates the middle 'channel (not sure if right word)? Essentially it eradicates the lead vox as they are usually pitched dead centre and you can listen to the song instrumentally. When I first listened to it like this....and imagined Dave singing it (just because they had a more Dave-like / aggressive feel to them) I thought that the album could have been an absolute monster. (Incidentally, this button is sometimes called 'karaoke' on some systems as essentially it removes vox).

I think the production on the opening track is a bit lame...(Eds guitar sounds like it's being DI'd), but it does get a bit more lively as you go through the album - if you can give it a listen like this - let me know what you think. Actually - my perception might be wrong as this was so long ago....I'm gonna do it again.

If I was Sam after hearing the way Eddie played on the last tour, I definitely would not tour with him ever again until Eddie got his act together. Eddie has to be 100 percent on every night, but after hearing some of the shows on the last tour, Eddie was an embrassment to Sammy and the rest of the band and that's why Sammy is doing his solo thing right now. Why deal with Eddie if he that messed up.

If I was Sam after hearing the way Eddie played on the last tour, I definitely would not tour with him ever again until Eddie got his act together. Eddie has to be 100 percent on every night, but after hearing some of the shows on the last tour, Eddie was an embrassment to Sammy and the rest of the band and that's why Sammy is doing his solo thing right now. Why deal with Eddie if he that messed up.

You can't be 100% every night - it's impossible. If you played at 100% every night - then no gig would be memorable / special to either the artist or the audience.

Ed's playing on the last tour was patchy - I've heard a couple of boots where it pretty bad (by his standards) and a couple when he is really on. However, a 75% Ed is still better than 95% of the rock guitarists out there today.

Also - this tour was rushed together, Ed by his own admission had not played guitar in years as he was more interested in piano / cello. With no amount of time spent in the studio working on a new album to get you fired up - what did people really expect????

Ed has been drunk on stage for years. He's an introvert that since his teens has needed a beer to go onstage in the first place. Imagine if VH had recorded a new album instead of announcing a tour, that album would be finished around now after the writing process and we would be looking forward to a tour with an inspired Ed playing new tunes.

Ed's playing on the last tour was patchy - I've heard a couple of boots where it pretty bad (by his standards) and a couple when he is really on. .

Dude which ones do you have where he was really on? I would love to hear them, everyone I have he is brutal. Which shows do you have from the tour?

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Dude which ones do you have where he was really on? I would love to hear them, everyone I have he is brutal. Which shows do you have from the tour?

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I've got about half of Albany NY on mpeg, Greensboro and the rest I've listened to in patches from Guitars101....

On Albany he seems OK, not great - couple of howlers...

On Greensboro, once again OK - couple of howlers again.

....but, I've based this upon reviews from this site that stated he was pretty awesome (the ones that spring to mind are Sept 11 / the Canadian shows / LA / which etc which by consensus were good and Ed was on.

I was really pointing out that it is impossible for a musician to be 100% every night......I've seen Steve Vai on numerous occasions and he's made some real bad ones - so what??? The thing that makes us love this type of music and the guitar in particular is because it ain't a sequencer and it reflects how ou feel at any given time.......

So Ed made a couple of errors - on the boots I've seen it looked like he was having a laugh to me......

Which ones have you seen mate? Prob the same ones I have seen. Did you get to see them live on the tour at all? If yes, what was your impression on the night?

Cheers mate

I've got about half of Albany NY on mpeg, Greensboro and the rest I've listened to in patches from Guitars101....

On Albany he seems OK, not great - couple of howlers...

On Greensboro, once again OK - couple of howlers again.

....but, I've based this upon reviews from this site that stated he was pretty awesome (the ones that spring to mind are Sept 11 / the Canadian shows / LA / which etc which by consensus were good and Ed was on.

I was really pointing out that it is impossible for a musician to be 100% every night......I've seen Steve Vai on numerous occasions and he's made some real bad ones - so what??? The thing that makes us love this type of music and the guitar in particular is because it ain't a sequencer and it reflects how ou feel at any given time.......

So Ed made a couple of errors - on the boots I've seen it looked like he was having a laugh to me......

Which ones have you seen mate? Prob the same ones I have seen. Did you get to see them live on the tour at all? If yes, what was your impression on the night?

Cheers mate

I heard some boots, and saw some video posted on here, and Eddie sounded lost. I have seem them live when he was supposedly drunk or sober and he was on every time. I am not saying he doesn't make mistakes, everyone does but on the Seventh Seal on the Hamilton, Onatrio bootleg, he doesn't even play the right riffs. On Top of the World, he's lazily speeds through the intro, I could go on and on. Someone posted a video last year of Ed having to go over to Mike to ask him what chords to play during the Seventh Seal. Again, drunk or sober he NEVER did that ever. He played with passion, and looked like it was his life. I am sure Sam is pissed, and had every right to be pissed the way Eddie played. What an embarassment. I feel bad for Eddie but he's gotta get his act together. Every band has an off night and even on an off night you can still be professional and good, but when you're not even playing the song the way it was written and you throw the band off, which he almost did in the video last year, I am sure Al, Mike, and Sam weren't happy. If Ed wasn't ready to tour, he shouldn't have, period.

I've got about half of Albany NY on mpeg, Greensboro and the rest I've listened to in patches from Guitars101....

On Albany he seems OK, not great - couple of howlers...

On Greensboro, once again OK - couple of howlers again.

....but, I've based this upon reviews from this site that stated he was pretty awesome (the ones that spring to mind are Sept 11 / the Canadian shows / LA / which etc which by consensus were good and Ed was on.

I was really pointing out that it is impossible for a musician to be 100% every night......I've seen Steve Vai on numerous occasions and he's made some real bad ones - so what??? The thing that makes us love this type of music and the guitar in particular is because it ain't a sequencer and it reflects how ou feel at any given time.......

So Ed made a couple of errors - on the boots I've seen it looked like he was having a laugh to me......

Which ones have you seen mate? Prob the same ones I have seen. Did you get to see them live on the tour at all? If yes, what was your impression on the night?

Cheers mate

Well the Toronto and Hamilton shows sucked ass as far as his playing went, if you are referring to the Florida show on the tour, that did as well. Sure he was having fun, but when you throw down that kind of $$$ to see a guitar God and get CC DeVille there is something wrong, mind you at least his tone was still killer. Has Ed always done a perfect show? No but there is a HUGE drop in his playing, and don`t say age because that is a cheap excuse.. Two words if you want to talk age: George Lynch Its was just hard to watch him (Ed) up there, it was like seeing my God fall before me...And it Toronto he did, right at the end of Jump. :D

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Well the Toronto and Hamilton shows sucked ass as far as his playing went, if you are referring to the Florida show on the tour, that did as well. Sure he was having fun, but when you throw down that kind of $$$ to see a guitar God and get CC DeVille there is something wrong, mind you at least his tone was still killer. Has Ed always done a perfect show? No but there is a HUGE drop in his playing, and don`t say age because that is a cheap excuse.. Two words if you want to talk age: George Lynch Its was just hard to watch him (Ed) up there, it was like seeing my God fall before me...And it Toronto he did, right at the end of Jump. :D

]

I'm not sure which Fl show you're refering to as there were three, but the Sunrise,Fl show on 9/11 sounded great. I was at the show and it sounded tremendous. I have one boot of that show and the boot's quality isn't the best. In person though Ed sounded really good. When the tour forum was up, almost every review was great. The few people who have reposted reviews have all been positive as well.

I'm not sure which Fl show you're refering to as there were three, but the Sunrise,Fl show on 9/11 sounded great. I was at the show and it sounded tremendous. I have one boot of that show and the boot's quality isn't the best. In person though Ed sounded really good. When the tour forum was up, almost every review was great. The few people who have reposted reviews have all been positive as well.
Nope that's the one, the DVD sound isn't the greatest but it still dosen't hide his playing that's why I had to get it when I heard the reviews, but it was hard to watch, if that was indeed their last tour, it's too bad Ed went out that way.

Well the Toronto and Hamilton shows sucked ass as far as his playing went, if you are referring to the Florida show on the tour, that did as well. Sure he was having fun, but when you throw down that kind of $$$ to see a guitar God and get CC DeVille there is something wrong, mind you at least his tone was still killer. Has Ed always done a perfect show? No but there is a HUGE drop in his playing, and don`t say age because that is a cheap excuse.. Two words if you want to talk age: George Lynch Its was just hard to watch him (Ed) up there, it was like seeing my God fall before me...And it Toronto he did, right at the end of Jump. :D

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Dude I certainly wouldn't mention age....that doesn't come into it, Al de Meola, John McLaughlin, Holdworth,...man, I saw Les Paul playing at one of his birthdays - the man is great.....Obviously you've seen it in the flesh last tour and I haven't...when I heard / saw the boots I've got, I was surprised as his playing in my opinion was not as bad as some of the bad reviews I'd seen on here. On the other hand, neither was it as good as some of the other reviews....what's great to one person isn't to another. I've got 5150 tour boots that sound pretty bad , all that sound going into a little condenser mic is never the best

I saw them in Tampa and he sounded great also. Sorry you had a bad time. Boots never sound as good as shows do. I'm glad I was there and glad I flew into St Louis to see them there also. Ed never stumbled a step as far as I'm concerned. I'd love to get my hands on a boot and some pictures of that Tampa show. That was a very special night for me.

Nope that's the one, the DVD sound isn't the greatest but it still dosen't hide his playing that's why I had to get it when I heard the reviews, but it was hard to watch, if that was indeed their last tour, it's too bad Ed went out that way.

I don't know if you have the same boot I do, but mine has really bad audio too, doesn't even sound like the show I was at. Trust me, he played very well that night. As good as in the past, probably not, but very good none the less. However from what I read in the tour forum before it was hacked, it does sound like we got a better show, some of the other shows sounded like trainwrecks, although I personally haven't heard any of those boots.

I am the biggest Edhead you would meet and my budies are even more obsessed then myself, it's just Ed set the bar so high, the drop in quality of playing between the 3 tour and even Balance is just so far it's hard to imagine the same guy. I mean there is no way they could have put out a DVD from the tour, they would have had to piece together shows from the entire tour. I am just being fair here, I rip on Dave all of the time for what he has become, and I am just not going to turn a blind eye and view Ed an differently, Al and Sam were to two high points of the 2004 tour, the atmosphere? Well sure it was great at all the shows I saw, but to bring another guitar player to see Ed who hasn't seen him before would have been embarrassing, I hope he gets it together and gets back to his level of playing...... And to stop wearing his guitar around his ankles.

You can't be 100% every night - it's impossible. If you played at 100% every night - then no gig would be memorable / special to either the artist or the audience.

Ed's playing on the last tour was patchy - I've heard a couple of boots where it pretty bad (by his standards) and a couple when he is really on. However, a 75% Ed is still better than 95% of the rock guitarists out there today.

Also - this tour was rushed together, Ed by his own admission had not played guitar in years as he was more interested in piano / cello. With no amount of time spent in the studio working on a new album to get you fired up - what did people really expect????

Ed has been drunk on stage for years. He's an introvert that since his teens has needed a beer to go onstage in the first place. Imagine if VH had recorded a new album instead of announcing a tour, that album would be finished around now after the writing process and we would be looking forward to a tour with an inspired Ed playing new tunes.

ED was consistantly pissed out of his mind drunk. There's a difference between a couple of shots and beers of the olden days, and the wasted soon after soundcheck approach evident on the last tour.

I am the biggest Edhead you would meet and my budies are even more obsessed then myself, it's just Ed set the bar so high, the drop in quality of playing between the 3 tour and even Balance is just so far it's hard to imagine the same guy. I mean there is no way they could have put out a DVD from the tour, they would have had to piece together shows from the entire tour. I am just being fair here, I rip on Dave all of the time for what he has become, and I am just not going to turn a blind eye and view Ed an differently, Al and Sam were to two high points of the 2004 tour, the atmosphere? Well sure it was great at all the shows I saw, but to bring another guitar player to see Ed who hasn't seen him before would have been embarrassing, I hope he gets it together and gets back to his level of playing...... And to stop wearing his guitar around his ankles.

Dude - I've said that in previous posts about the way Ed is wearing his guitar and I got ripped by a couple of guys saying that his playing position hasn't changed...they must be blind!

He's wearing the guitar so low now that it's gotta be near impossible to play comfortably.....the higher you wear the guitar, the easier playing gets (aside from Zakk Wylde it seems!).

Dude - I've said that in previous posts about the way Ed is wearing his guitar and I got ripped by a couple of guys saying that his playing position hasn't changed...they must be blind!

He's wearing the guitar so low now that it's gotta be near impossible to play comfortably.....the higher you wear the guitar, the easier playing gets (aside from Zakk Wylde it seems!).

Totally, if they think his position hasen`t changed they don`t know jack, for his style of play and the way he pics it`s not good that low, it`s just not him he has never had it that low before.