Nugent. That was the headline in todays paper.
He would rather silence his guitar than his mouth.He's pulling out of the Aug.22 concert with Kiss because the promoters want him to promise not to make offensive remarks. He criticized people who lived in the U.S., but couldn't speak English-he told them to return to their native countries.
Local Hispanic community leaders are organizing a boycott (national) of Nugent.

Ted Nugent kicks ass! He tells it as he sees it which may rub some people wrong but I like the guy!

You said it for me Panama!

SPeak the language or get out - we speak English here so you dont need it anymore. We dont accept foreign currency here right? Same with the language

Ted is cool. He says alot of things people only wish they could say out loud. I happen to work in a profession that deals with alot of non English speaking people. Funny how they are not "legal" and "We" get to pay for all of their medical expenses etc. Just not right. We pay WAY too much in insurance, taxes etc, for some kuckelheads to get all that stuff for free. Just not right. Period. Out.


A.D.

Ditto!!!!!!

This is more political than music so I', moving it to the the non-music.............

[This message has been edited by jimmy (edited July 20, 2000 at 08:33 PM).]

I've got mixed feelings on the whole issue. There are a couple of things I feel strongly about.

The first is that Ted should be able to speak his mind on this one. It's not unreasonable to expect people living in a country to speak its language. If I was planning on moving to Portugal, I'd be damn sure I knew enough Portugese to be functional. Hopefully more than that.

Groups that decry people who say something that makes sense--even if it's offensive to some sensitive types--should turn their efforts to correcting the problem rather than pretend it doesn't exist.

Just as an aside, I had a funny experience the other day. The organization that I work for teaches basic to advanced English to immigrants, as well as GED and diploma programs. I was running updates on half of the computers in a lab. This little Vietnamese lady came up to one of the computers that was downloading the update. I asked her to use on of the other machines. She said yes, and nodded. Then reached over to the mouse, hit the cancel button, and began to check her e-mail... http://216.10.25.192/vhlforum/smilies/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by MikeL (edited July 20, 2000 at 10:24 PM).]

guys,

you're missing the point. i'm brazilian, my native language is portuguese, and i agree with you americans in some points, and disagree in others.

i think it's a bad thing to have people from other countries that think that US is going to save their lives. there're lots of brazilians that go to US to find a "second-hand" job, and these fuckers damage the brazilian image in america.

in the other hand, there are thousands of brazilians that are invited to work in US, as scientists, in banks, big companies, and many other jobs. these people are paying taxes and are helping the development of america.

it's not fair to judge a whole comunity because of a few of them don't behave properly.

i've been to USA twice as a turist, i loved it; i'm also planing to take a MBA course at Stanford; i payed for my trip, i'll pay for my course and i'll be giving many jobs to americans.

if i run across one of you in america, you'll probably think i'm an american citizen, i'm blond, green eyes and tall... i don't have the brazilian stereotype, but that doesn't change anything, i'm brazilian.

i would ask you please, not to judge a comunity, judge the acts of each isolated person. when you judge a comunity, you're just like MF hitler, that judged (and killed) the jews. i'm sorry guys, nugent speach sounds a bit nazi.

peace my friends (i'm sorry for the spelling and grammar mistakes http://216.10.25.192/vhlforum/smilies/biggrin.gif)

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maybe i'm crazy,
or just too high...

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by track 5:
Funny how they are not "legal" and "We" get to pay for all of their medical expenses etc. Just not right. We pay WAY too much in insurance, taxes etc, for some kuckelheads to get all that stuff for free. Just not right. Period. Out.


A.D.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There are a lot of people living in the U.S.
that are "legal" and "we" pay for them.But that isn't what the topic is really about,IMO.
I don't have a problem with Nugent speaking his peace, I just find it http://216.10.25.192/vhlforum/smilies/frown.gif that he can has to offend foreigners to do so. I'm sure he doesn't learn all the languages of the countries that he tours in.
I hope uncle ted doesn't receive "this" type of attitude when he comes herehttp://216.10.25.192/vhlforum/smilies/wink.gif

yeah goddamn it.

hey angel,

don't worry, i've always been very well treated in america. the thing is that i don't like to see people thinking almost like hitler in 2000, 55 years after the worst nightmare the world had seen.

it's very sad the WE don't understand the multi racial/nation, that WE live.

i just ask everyone to judge isolated acts, not whole comunities.

peace.

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maybe i'm crazy,
or just too high...

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Speak the language or get out - we speak English here so you don't need it anymore. We dont accept foreign currency here right? Same with the language<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ohhhh, boy. This pissed me off BIG time. "Speak the language or get out??" That's sick!

Did you know that most Mexicans understand at least a little English? They have to, because everything is so Americanized these days. They watch the same Hollywood movies and listen to the same music, and it's in English.

If you go visit Mexico City, if you speak with the natives, they will try to speak in English. They try to speak their broken English that they're required to learn in school...and they love to hear us speak our broken Spanish.

This is America. There is no law saying that anyone needs to speak English. It is vital to understand at least a little English, and that is what Mexican migrant workers do.

They know as much English as they need to get by, end of story.

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"i still dream big thanx to Van Halen music!" - Eddie_italian
Just because someone doesn't love you the way you want them to...
doesn't mean they don't love you with all they have! "1989" (http://www.vhvault.com/1989/)

i feel strongly on this issue also,if you dont want to speak our language get the fuck out! they come over here, dont wanna speak our language, not all, but a good many seem to have an attitude about us,and why?... they get loans with no credit to buy american businesses, they dont have to pay taxes on it for 7 years,then they bring another one over, put the bus. in his name theres 7 more and on and on!
and ive seen alot of them that can speak english when they want to. i use to work at a plant where the supervisors were reqiured to take spanish... give me a fuckin break!

Can't stay on the links tonight, but I did want to respond to a few things that were said on this thread.
1. Uncle ted, you make an excellent point about people comming to USA and wanting us to take care of them etc. I can tell by what you said about going to Stanford and paying your own way etc, that YOU are just the kind of people this great country needs. You expect to speak the language while your here, and will try your best to be a great American. Too bad there are many people who WHERE BORN HERE, that don't feel the same way. If my post offended you, that was never my intention. Take care ted. Swing on out to Texas sometime, you'll love it.

2 Angel you make a good point as well. I should have maybe said something about our own people, that do THAT very thing. You know, ALL the fuckin' freebies as it were. It's funny how most of our problems/complaining in my line of work, comes from people who GET ALL THEIR MEDICAL CARE FOR FREE. That is what I was complaing about. And yes, there are some cases where these people are US citizens.

3. As far as Nugent learning different languages of the countries he visists. He damn sure would LEARN the language of the country he chose to live in. THAT I can promise you.

4. Lead. I am VERY familiar with Mexican migrant workers here in Texas. I spent two years working SIDE BY SIDE with them on a ranch in south Texas. Alot of them tried very hard to learn to speak English. Very hard. The reason why? They planned on MOVING here legally with their familes later on. I still have contact with that ranch, and some of the same workers are there. They live there with there families. And some are now US citizens. I love that. To actually work with someone who wants to leave his/her native country, and live in ours.

Like I said earlier, uncle ted, I meant no offense. You are most welcome here anytime man.

Ya'll take care. Sorry for the long ass post. Lead you ain't mad at me, are you? http://216.10.25.192/vhlforum/smilies/biggrin.gif
My cyber little sister. LOL. Out.


[This message has been edited by track 5 (edited July 21, 2000 at 07:34 PM).]

my main gripe about this is i dont think american plant supervisors should have to take spanish courses to do their job.
most of them act like its your fault you cant understand them, the attitude ya know.

Well speaking from experience, like youself Night, I will agree on that. No biggy though. I think I might have stirred up something I didn't really mean to have. Still stand by my conviction though. Out.

A.D.

Gotta back up my boy track 5 in this motha'. http://216.10.25.192/vhlforum/smilies/wink.gif

I know what everyone is saying and to a certain degree, you're ALL right.

Now, Ted Nugent is NOT Hitler reincarnated. So that's off the table immediately. Ted's an opinionated guy who always puts his foot in his mouth - when he's not busy putting it in someone's ass. http://216.10.25.192/vhlforum/smilies/biggrin.gif

I think that if you're visiting a country it helps to know a little of that country's lingo.

But if you're living in a country, you should make every effort to learn the language. It makes it easier on everyone. Most foreigners WANT to learn English.

Ted didn't mean ALL foreigners, just the ones that are ripping this country off. Hell, Ted bitches about everyone that rips this country off.

It's just that this thread deals with his remarks about foreigners.

Ted's no bigot. He just needs to learn how to choose better words. http://216.10.25.192/vhlforum/smilies/biggrin.gif

Uncle Ted, you made some good posts. http://216.10.25.192/vhlforum/smilies/smile.gif

And Angel, what paper did you see this headline in? Could you post the entire thing?

And why should Nugent learn the language of the countries he tours in? He's only touring there, not applying for citizenship. http://216.10.25.192/vhlforum/smilies/smile.gif

dont get me wrong, i dont have anything against people here that are trying,i mean anybody from anywhere.
im talking about the people that bring nothing but trouble.the ones that live 20 to a house,start gangs,etc. hell there are people that are born here i put in that category. i should have been more specific.
and to whomever i may have offended i send you my apology,i just hope you will except it.

Goo, your post just made me remember a very recent story I heard on the news about a town in Texas.

Maybe if track 5 reads this he can explain a little about it.

The town is right on the border of Mexico and Texas, and it has been almost completely inhabited by Mexicans.

They're trying - literally - to claim it as Mexican land.

They believe that if they can populate it with only Mexicans who only speak Spanish, they can somehow pull it off.

What they do is get Mexicans to cross the border illegaly and if they get caught, just ask for a day in court. If they just simply ASK for a day in court, the U.S. is legally bound to give them one, ensuring that the system gets log-jammed. This means that it will take forever to get rid of them.

Of course this is ridiculous, and of course it doesn't get any press here in the U.S. because we've got such economic ties to Mexico.

THESE are the kind of peeps that Ted is pissed at. Not the hard-working people who are trying to better themselves.

The paper I got it out of was the Dayton Daily News, and I no longer have it-but the report came from Houston.
I think that in some ways, this article is taking a wrong turn. It seems some of you posting know exactly what Ted was talking about, when nothing was mentioned in the article about "illegals coming in here for a free ride".
I never read more into the story!!!I thought this was about speaking the fucking language, not nationalities or what color your skin was!!!!http://216.10.25.192/vhlforum/smilies/biggrin.gif

Goo <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ANGEL4U:
He criticized people who lived in the U.S., but couldn't speak English-he told them to return to their native countries.
Local Hispanic community leaders are organizing a boycott (national) of Nugent.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Read what you wrote very carefully... I sure see references to race and country of origin! http://216.10.25.192/vhlforum/smilies/smile.gif

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A little zen... Headed your way...

[This message has been edited by Goo (edited July 22, 2000 at 05:17 AM).]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Goo:
Australia has a huge migrant community, from damn near anywhere you can mention..

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Prisons mainlyhttp://216.10.25.192/vhlforum/smilies/wink.gif I don't know about anyone else but I had to unlearn about 75% of my English to speak American when I moved here http://216.10.25.192/vhlforum/smilies/tongue.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jonathan:
Prisons mainlyhttp://216.10.25.192/vhlforum/smilies/wink.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL! http://216.10.25.192/vhlforum/smilies/biggrin.gif Piss orf ya pommy bugger!! http://216.10.25.192/vhlforum/smilies/biggrin.gif http://216.10.25.192/vhlforum/smilies/biggrin.gif



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A little zen... Headed your way...

Aussie Immigration: Do you have a criminal record?
English tourist: I didn't know it was still a requirement.

http://216.10.25.192/vhlforum/smilies/wink.gif

More seriously though. Within 20 years 60% of the jobs in America are gonna require technical/computer skills which only 20% of the current population have. Either there's gonna be a large increase in non-English speaking but technically skilled immigrants or the US is gonna have trouble retaining its position as world leader. Have a look at the faculty/grad students in any science/engineering program at any major US university - it's usually over 50% recent immigrants. The people with those skills are coming from Eastern Europe, former Soviet Union and Asia for the most part.

[This message has been edited by Jonathan (edited July 22, 2000 at 05:51 AM).]

I don't have a problem with foreigners comin to America even if their English is limited at first (they'll learn). What I do have a problem with is when they come here and immediatley go on welfare and medical assistance and in some cases have Habitat for Humanity build them a nice house. It can be a little disconcerning to see somebody else having a nice house built in your neighborhood when they don't work that much when another person in the same neighborhood is workin two jobs just to get by. I can see where Ted Nugent or anybody else can get a little annoyed by foreigners getting any sort of handouts.

Ya know what? I am so sick and tired of people in general in this country, who get "offended" or "upset" about any little damn thing that is mentioned that has to do with race. I mean, you can say something like "A mexicans skin is darker than mine" and you are in the spotlight gettin analized by 40 people about whether or not that guy is racist, what did he mean by that?, etc..just waiting to pounce on a guy with some holier than thou philosophy throwing, up on a soapbox, CRAP about how THAT is what is wrong with our country today. I bet some people who read this are going to be upset by the word mexican in this post. FUCK THAT. I see nothing offensive with that, black person, Indian, etc.. Shit, I want to be called an "anglo american" and have a holiday made for me too. Give me a break.

Ya know what else? Nugent has a good point. I happen to agree with him to a degree. He did NOT mean that everybody who is not american, get out. His words were trying to convey the point that if you are not able to function in this country due to not having the language skills to cope, get the fuck out because you are sponging up my fucking tax money that I WORK for, to support you and your family for god knows how long. If you are in that kind of bind, go home. DUH! It will work out better for everybody! Ted has every right to be upset because that is hitting him in the pocket book.

If this is at all offensive to anybody, I dont know why. Get over it.

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sheepa latta peepah dabba looka foh a moopy

YUUNNK!!

(this message will self destruct in 5 seconds)

That's it, seenbad, I'm reporting you to the Potically Correct Police.

Just like Ted, you might have made some sense.

This means you will be severely punished. http://216.10.25.192/vhlforum/smilies/wink.gif

Australia has a huge migrant community, from damn near anywhere you can mention..

In the most part the whole process runs pretty smooth here, but theres problems in areas that are made 'little ghettos' from a particular group - you walk into Cabramatta for instance, and you would be lucky to see a shop with english signage, yet alone be understood when you walk into the shop..

I dont have a problem with people speaing their own native tongue, and not knowing much english, thats cool - I do have some reservations about a particular ethnic group basically buying out a suburb, and making it little lebanon or something - ie coming here, enjoying the freedoms and economic benefits this country has to offer and not even TRYING to adapt a little.. Its sorta arrogant!

Y'dig what I'm getting at here - its not that they are here - its that they come here with NO intention of joining the wider community in any way.

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A little zen... Headed your way...

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Goo:
Goo Read what you wrote very carefully... I sure see references to race and country of origin! http://216.10.25.192/vhlforum/smilies/smile.gif

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'll stand corrected...but the topic was about speaking the language....
This was taken word for word out of the newspaper...I don't know if welfare/illegals etc. was the issue with Nugent. http://216.10.25.192/vhlforum/smilies/smile.gif

It's cool, Angel. http://216.10.25.192/vhlforum/smilies/smile.gif (who could be angry with a gal named Angel anyway? http://216.10.25.192/vhlforum/smilies/biggrin.gif )

It's funny. I don't own a Ted Nugent album, but whenever I ever see him on television, I've just got to watch. Even when I disagree with him, he always makes valid points.

Since I've seen him before, I think I've got the gist of most of his arguments. He's no bigot, but if you take a quote or two from him (or almost anyone else, for that matter http://216.10.25.192/vhlforum/smilies/wink.gif ) I guess he might come off as such.

Ted Nugent is the embodiment of the "Ugly American".



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"No man is happy without a delusion of some kind. Delusions are as necessary to our happiness as realities." -Christian Nestell Bovee, American author (1820-1904).

Well let’s have a look at Canada. Canada's idea is to have a multicultural/pluralistic society, a tossed salad so to speak as apposed to the assimilating or melting pot philosophy of the US.

I'm all for pluralism, to a point. Any society needs a general, agreed upon way of functioning. Their needs to be certain codes of conduct that transcends cultural diversity yet allows for the appreciation of the many cultures.

English is the dominant language of North America, so to attain entrance into Canada, it should be required that some sort of immersion course be taken at the expense of the immigrant! If the immigrant cannot afford the classes, it should be either sponsored by more well to do immigrants, or the state, or province should pay for it, with the proviso that the dollars spent training that particular immigrant will be re-paid by that immigrant sponsoring another immigrant! This humanitarian idea that the flood gates should be open to those less fortunate then us is real easy to say, but a real bugger to pull off. Up here we pay between 30-50% income tax, depending on your earnings, and in BC we pay 13% sales tax! Our healthcare system is in shambles, and our government still uses the patronage system when allocating funds! I am in no way saying or suggesting that immigration is/has been responsible for this. What I am saying is that to open our doors to immigration, without sponsorship, or at the very least, a burning desire on the part of the immigrant to make an honest go of it, is absolutely ridiculous.

In Canada, we have certain segments of our population who refuse to adorn the uniform that their (chosen) job requires. They cite cultural conflict. This IMO is complete bullshit! Wear whatever the fuck you want to wear for the other 16 hours of the day that you’re not working. I'm sure that Burger King employees aren't to thrilled about putting on that ridiculous outfit to peddle burgers! If you don't want to wear the uniform, don’t take the fucking job!

Individual rights cannot preclude societal or group rights. Because I’m white middle-class male, my chances of getting a lot of jobs are basically nil. For example, my best friend, (who happens to be an immigrant) applied for a job at the Vancouver police department. After many interviews, he asked the recruiting officer about the intake process. He was rather surprised that there is allocated quotas, based on race, white males being on the bottom of that list! I can completely understand and appreciate why this is the case, but if I’m negating my opportunity for employment just because I’m white, the person who is taking my opportunity away from me, IMO should appreciate the opportunity afforded to them, and not worry so much about the suite they make you wear!

Cultural, and linguistic diversity provides us with the chance to sample a wide variety of cultures. We can learn etc, my point is I guess that this issue is multi-dimensional, and to reduce it to a matter of language is a little too convenient for the majority, (us). We can all sit here and piss and moan about how we are being treated poorly by immigrants, or pull the humanitarian bit about how we need to allow people to come to our counties and not undertake any responsibility to contribute. This idea of equality is a joke. All other things being equal we should be afforded the chance to excel at whatever we choose, but we have to work for it, and we have to make sacrifices, and we need to take a realistic look at the issue of immigration and try to come up with solutions that benefit the society as a whole!

And that’s all I have to say about that!


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