EDDIE VAN HALEN, TONY IOMMI Interviewed For GUITAR WORLD's 30th-Anniversary Issue - Page 37

Otis5150 · 11.20.09, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brownnation

So my question is this: If you have jumped off the EVH bandwagon (not musically, but just think he's been a douchebag), what/when was your tipping point?

In retrospect, I'd also say that Ed "jumped the shark" back in '96 with the post MTV awards debacle interview. He seemed pretty unstable there and it was tough to watch. I guess I've just been holding out a little bit of hope since then but the GW interview is just embarassing.

I'll be the first to say that he doesn't owe the fans or anyone else enything: new music, tours, etc. But he comes across as almost having contempt for his own fans. Also, it's becoming increasingly clear that all his recent talk of new music was obviously a sham designed to pimp product.

I hope Janie's a great wife, because she's sure a lousy publicist if Ed's current image is any indication of her skills. This is why you don't crap where you eat.

E-roc · 11.20.09, 08:09 AM

Ed's been embarrassing himself in Guitar World as far back as I can
remember; Les Paul, Slash, etc. But I have to believe a person is always
redeemable. At some point as a fan though, you're just done. Think of Michael
Jackson fans. There was no talking them out of it as dark as it got. And it
turns out that sumbitch was giving it another shot. I dunno.

Maybe it's just the pot and vodka talking.

Hi, I'm new here.

tommytom11 · 11.20.09, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Otis5150

In retrospect, I'd also say that Ed "jumped the shark" back in '96 with the post MTV awards debacle interview. He seemed pretty unstable there and it was tough to watch. I guess I've just been holding out a little bit of hope since then but the GW interview is just embarassing.

I'll be the first to say that he doesn't owe the fans or anyone else enything: new music, tours, etc. But he comes across as almost having contempt for his own fans. Also, it's becoming increasingly clear that all his recent talk of new music was obviously a sham designed to pimp product.

I hope Janie's a great wife, because she's sure a lousy publicist if Ed's current image is any indication of her skills. This is why you don't crap where you eat.

she sure is. if she was any good at all she would have never let this article come out the way its written. and trying to make everyone think EVH is on twitter? come on.

EUX4Life · 11.20.09, 09:22 AM

Clearly, Ed needs to start drinking again if this is what he's like sober.

ZachenFoot · 11.20.09, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave's Dreidel

I think Ed has totally forgotten the art of compromise.

I think Ed has totally forgotten about art as a whole and what it entails.

Quote:

Originally Posted by brownnation

So my question is this: If you have jumped off the EVH bandwagon (not musically, but just think he's been a douchebag), what/when was your tipping point?

Howard Stern, September 2006. I always gave Ed the benefit of the doubt (granted I wasn't there for the MTV interviews and III), but that was IT. That whole summer of 2006, with the horrifying backyard performances, stories of him stumbling around LA in drunken hazes, and the Stern interview all lead me to believe "Wow, this guy has lost his fucking mind."

The problem was, it wasn't confusion. He was just a drunken blowhard. He got rid of the drunk, but he's still a blowhard.

gabby gabbster · 11.20.09, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reckless Fable

A major component of longevity is perseverance. Think of all the jokes Bon Jovi has had directed towards them in their career. If Ed got even a tenth of the insults hurled at BJ towards him, he'd be shivering in a corner like Gollum.

I'm not really a fan of BJ's music, however I deeply admire their ability to keep doing what they do continuously and really do well by their fan base.

I will give them that too. Plus the fact that they have staked out popularity overseas as well... and continued to tour there. I can't help but think if VH had toured overseas more and promoted themselves more, they'd be as popular too.

I know VH can make a good record...by the standards set by every other successful band. Why not share it with everyone and just let the chips fall where they may? I think Dave King's post was dead-on and I finally feel the same disappointment.

broken9500 · 11.20.09, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave King

You can't keep letting your fans down and wondering why nobody cares about your music. It started in 96, then in 98, then in 04, then in 07, and now in 09. The die hards will always buy the music but it's the casual fan you want to retain. Slowly but surely they have lost all their casual fans and have slipped into irrelevancy. Eddie made a lot of bad choices that alienated too many fans. The die hards have held on by thinking that Ed can turn himself around and I think he has to the point that it's saved his live but I think he's had too many things in his life (Abusive Dad, drug use, alcohol, smoking, turmoil in the band, cancer, divorce) that have just taken it's toll on his emotions.

Casual fans don't feel let down and casual fans don't know or care about 96,98,04,07 or this interview. Casual fans are just that and they came by the boatload to see them in 2007.

You have your groups reversed. The die hards are the ones complaining about being let down, alienated, exploited, ignored etc. Die hards are the ones boycotting shows with Wolf and complaining about the Roth debacle in 96 and how they followed that up with Cherone.

Casuals don't give a fuck and just want to go to a concert and hear Jump and the rest of the greatest hits. Casual fans will take a bathroom or beer break during new music if it doesn't sound like the old music...and sometimes even if it does they'll still walk because they don't know the melodies or the air guitar chords.

Ed may be a douche, he may be a bastard and he may never record again. The casual fan doesn't give a shit one way or the other.

BlindtotheWorld · 11.20.09, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by broken9500

Casual fans don't feel let down and casual fans don't know or care about 96,98,04,07 or this interview. Casual fans are just that and they came by the boatload to see them in 2007.

You have your groups reversed. The die hards are the ones complaining about being let down, alienated, exploited, ignored etc. Die hards are the ones boycotting shows with Wolf and complaining about the Roth debacle in 96 and how they followed that up with Cherone.

Casuals don't give a fuck and just want to go to a concert and hear Jump and the rest of the greatest hits. Casual fans will take a bathroom or beer break during new music if it doesn't sound like the old music...and sometimes even if it does they'll still walk because they don't know the melodies or the air guitar chords.

Ed may be a douche, he may be a bastard and he may never record again. The casual fan doesn't give a shit one way or the other.

All very good points. It also explains very well why the concert crowds of today are so lame compared to even 10 years ago.

The die hard rock fans are in the minority anymore. It's pathetic when you go to a show and can't tell if you were at a Barry Manilow or VH concert based on the crowd. This may be a bit of an exaggeration but not much of one.

ziggysmalls · 11.20.09, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by broken9500

Casual fans don't feel let down and casual fans don't know or care about 96,98,04,07 or this interview. Casual fans are just that and they came by the boatload to see them in 2007.

You have your groups reversed. The die hards are the ones complaining about being let down, alienated, exploited, ignored etc. Die hards are the ones boycotting shows with Wolf and complaining about the Roth debacle in 96 and how they followed that up with Cherone.

Casuals don't give a fuck and just want to go to a concert and hear Jump and the rest of the greatest hits. Casual fans will take a bathroom or beer break during new music if it doesn't sound like the old music...and sometimes even if it does they'll still walk because they don't know the melodies or the air guitar chords.

Ed may be a douche, he may be a bastard and he may never record again. The casual fan doesn't give a shit one way or the other.

Of my group of friends I am the only die hard VH fan who follows their day to day activity. Well maybe year to year is a better term!

A few of my friends list VH as their favorite band and the rest will go see them in concert. Anyway all of them have no idea about this interview. Only two of them would consider buying a new CD. Only two of them have bought CF and nobody went to go see them live. The rest never heard anything from CF and have not asked me for a copy. I venture the same would be said about a new VH release.

They like the VH catalog and that is what they want to listen to. If a kick ass CF or VH song was on the radio, I am sure it would catch their interest but they would rather hear Unchained or Summer Nights.

Casual fans don't care about the BS. It's like when some guy is playing air guitar to Smoke on the Water, somebody doesn't bitch that Richie Blackmore isn't in the band anymore.

broken9500 · 11.20.09, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ziggysmalls

Of my group of friends I am the only die hard VH fan who follows their day to day activity. Well maybe year to year is a better term!

A few of my friends list VH as their favorite band and the rest will go see them in concert. Anyway all of them have no idea about this interview. Only two of them would consider buying a new CD. Only two of them have bought CF and nobody went to go see them live. The rest never heard anything from CF and have not asked me for a copy. I venture the same would be said about a new VH release.

They like the VH catalog and that is what they want to listen to. If a kick ass CF or VH song was on the radio, I am sure it would catch their interest but they would rather hear Unchained or Summer Nights.

Casual fans don't care about the BS. It's like when some guy is playing air guitar to Smoke on the Water, somebody doesn't bitch that Richie Blackmore isn't in the band anymore.

exactly.

What's more, The "die hards" are just as quick to want things "both ways" as they accuse Ed of being. They want their bands (in this case Ed and VH) to live up to the expectations they've developed over the years. They want the band to do exactly as they want down to the set lists...not to mention line ups. They want the mix to be just right and they want certain venues at certain times of the year and so on and so forth. Yet, on the other hand, they want Ed to feel free and confident and inspired to do whatever he wants. They want the artist to play for themselves...as long as its to the tastes of the diehards. They want them to alienate the casual fans by not playing the hits but they want the big stadium experience without the modern day price tag because it's time that Ed "gave back" to the fans who have made him millions. They want Ed to give them Fair Warning but they want him to show his growth and maturity. They want Ed to stop shilling gear and Guitar Hero but they want to buy every T-shirt and pedal and guitar he puts out.

Diehards can be just as dysfunctional, douchey, arrogant, self-righteous, in denial, bitter, insecure and off-their-rocker as they accuse their favourite artists of being.

brownnation · 11.20.09, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by broken9500

exactly.

What's more, The "die hards" are just as quick to want things "both ways" as they accuse Ed of being. They want their bands (in this case Ed and VH) to live up to the expectations they've developed over the years. They want the band to do exactly as they want down to the set lists...not to mention line ups. They want the mix to be just right and they want certain venues at certain times of the year and so on and so forth. Yet, on the other hand, they want Ed to feel free and confident and inspired to do whatever he wants. They want the artist to play for themselves...as long as its to the tastes of the diehards. They want them to alienate the casual fans by not playing the hits but they want the big stadium experience without the modern day price tag because it's time that Ed "gave back" to the fans who have made him millions. They want Ed to give them Fair Warning but they want him to show his growth and maturity. They want Ed to stop shilling gear and Guitar Hero but they want to buy every T-shirt and pedal and guitar he puts out.

Diehards can be just as dysfunctional, douchey, arrogant, self-righteous, in denial, bitter, insecure and off-their-rocker as they accuse their favourite artists of being.

This is true. But pretty irrelevant to the deserved criticism Ed has brought on himself time and time again. In Eddie's Douche Ledger the last decade he has many ticks in the Douche Column and not a whole lot in the Not-Douche Column.

broken9500 · 11.20.09, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brownnation

This is true. But pretty irrelevant to the deserved criticism Ed has brought on himself time and time again. In Eddie's Douche Ledger the last decade he has many ticks in the Douche Column and not a whole lot in the Not-Douche Column.

agreed but only to the extent that Ed's douchery is well-documented. I think people's approach to Ed (and to their "idols" in general) is just as open to question.

brownnation · 11.20.09, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by broken9500

agreed but only to the extent that Ed's douchery is well-documented. I think people's approach to Ed is just as open to question.

That's the problem. For each fan, there is a unique opinion about the band and specifically EVH's behavior. Some, as you say, are as whacky as Ed's behavior and thought process and some aren't. There's just not really anything you can say generally about the fan base. So to argue "against" a monolithic group of fans that exhibit opinions you disagree with is pretty futile. I could say absolutely anything about a VH fan and it would be true... and it would also be false.

broken9500 · 11.20.09, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brownnation

That's the problem. For each fan, there is a unique opinion about the band and specifically EVH's behavior. Some, as you say, are as whacky as Ed's behavior and thought process and some aren't. There's just not really anything you can say generally about the fan base. So to argue "against" a monolithic group of fans that exhibit opinions you disagree with is pretty futile. I could say absolutely anything about a VH fan and it would be true... and it would also be false.

and I agree with you again. In fact, I'll go so far as to say I fell victim to the type of generalism and laziness that I've oft criticized when people use pronouns like "they" and "us" instead of "I" and "me."

So, I'll say this: my post is directed not to the general monolith of vh fans, fans of anything in general or even die fans. It simply about those who it is about.

Tell you what, I haven't popped in here for a while but in perusing this thread a lot of the same sentiments are all present and whenever I read some of them, particularly ones about Ed having a gift and as such he should be using that gift and sharing that gift etc etc I always come back to an interview I saw with Tiki Barber shortly after his retirement. He commented at length about fan backlash and a lot of the comments he heard about him retiring. He talked about how some people said repeatedly that if THEY had that gift they would have to tear the jersey off them. Others said he lacked heart and courage and that he wanted to get out while his face was still pretty. Others said that there were millions and millions of people who would give anything to be in his position and that walking away at his peak was a slap in the face to all those people who work so hard at jobs they hate when he gets paid to play a game. The guy interviewing said "well, what's your answer to all that?" Tiki says "they don't know me. They think they know me but they don't. They have no idea and unless they live my life, they have no idea. It's easy for a fan wearing my jersey cheering me on to say those things. It's not the same when you ARE me."
(paraphrasing a bit there)

A lot of the comments he described are a lot of comments we see time and time and time again. Just as in Tiki's case where there were jealous bitter people who out of envy and personal frustration attacked him for making his decision to quit, we have various individuals who react the same way to Ed and to others like him.

Earlier there was a comment about how Ed seems to hate his fans. I wonder, if you were Ed and you were reading threads like this...would you like your fans?

I'm not advocating blind loyalty or that we should drink the kool-aide. I'm not suggesting we keep our mouths shuts ala "if you have nothing nice to say don't say anything at all." I'm not even suggesting we should hold back or temper our expression. I suppose there are plenty of reasons to be pissed or whatever but Hardly. I just don't get how some folks seem to be so personally insulted.

It reminds of that part in John Lennon's Imagine where that guy shows up at John's home. John lets the guy in, gives him dinner and the guy is going on and on about how he knows John and how John knows him and about those songs touching him and being about him and John saying to the guy "man, I don't know who the hell you are and you don't know me. I'm just a guy. I write about whatevers going on and it's great that it touched but it's not about you." (paraphrasing a bit there too) I think if some people stepped back a little bit and took a little less personal ownership in Van Halen, they might have a little less frustration as it relates to the band.

Number 47 · 11.20.09, 04:16 PM

Good one broken. Thought provoking.