Do you think VH3 would have been better if... - Page 3

eman2 · 11.18.09, 10:47 AM

It would have been better if VH III was never released. It was a horrible arrangement of songs that had no soul or inspiration to them. Just guitar and vocal vomit!

VH1988 · 11.18.09, 10:51 AM

I remember when Rolling stone reviewed it they were saying how tired the band sounded.

They said the rhythm section was "lumbering" along.

Yeah probably becuase it wasnt MA on bass, but Ed.

And i hated all the sound effects.

chefcraig · 11.18.09, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VH1988

I remember when Rolling stone reviewed it they were saying how tired the band sounded.

They said the rhythm section was "lumbering" along.

Yeah probably becuase it wasnt MA on bass, but Ed.

And i hated all the sound effects.

Yeah, the RS reviewer pretty much clobbered the album, didn't he? And deservedly so.

Van Halen 3 (Two Stars)

This is a tale of three vocalists and the guitar player who hired them. Van Halen I (1978-85): David Lee Roth was a bozo who couldn't sing, but at least he was entertaining. Van Halen II (1985-96): Sammy Hagar was a bozo who could sing, but his by-the-numbers songwriting made Roth sound positively profound.

Which brings us to Van Halen III (1997-?), and new singer and lyricist Gary Cherone. Formerly of middling arena-rock band Extreme, Cherone sounds disconcertingly like Hagar, full of spleen-busting bluster and incapable of understatement. Though Van Halen III is conspicuously lacking in the frat-boy tomdroolery that so enamored Roth and Hagar to fans, it still contains its share of baying at the moon. "Press against your lips," Cherone heaves as he closes in on a one-night stand in "From Afar," "taste the sweetness of your breath."

Every Van Halen singer has had the extreme good fortune to be associated with one of the virtuoso pop-music talents of the last twenty years, guitarist Eddie Van Halen, who has learned how to put his six-string artillery in the service of an increasingly broad range of songs. But ever since the commercial breakthrough of 1984, his ambitions have outrun his band's ability to execute them. Cherone has one speed as a singer on III – pained exertion – and longtime bassist Michael Anthony and drummer Alex Van Halen sound as though they're lumbering at any tempo. When the band plays it heavy, it mires itself in a Seventies tar pit, with only the chorus of "Without You" achieving any sort of pop resonance. Instead, the most thrilling moments are when Eddie Van Halen waves goodbye to the songs with his gloriously warped solos or when he abandons the notion of hard rock altogether. "Once" is an ambient piano-and-synth track with a lonely guitar circling overhead, and "How Many Say I" finds the guitarist singing in a disarmingly appealing, nicotine-stained voice over a moody piano melody. One can only hope this last number is a prelude to Eddie Van Halen I: The Solo Album.

SLEEPER5150 · 11.18.09, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave's Dreidel

Some bands have had the sense when an album is not progressing the way they want to just ditch it and start over.

That is what they should have done.

My main problems with it:

1. Bad producer. Some will say the producer is over rated, totally disagree. Go listen to the Jimmy Page produced Please Read the Letter versus the T-Bone Burnett produced version that won a grammy. One is a great tune and one is almost unlistenable.

2. Lyrics first then music, the exact opposite of what Van Halen had always done. Didn't work, they should have realized it somewhere along the line and started over.

3. Gary's vocals. They should have waited until he had fully recovered from throat surgery. He sounds horrible.

4. Ed playing bass. Some apologists would disagree, but Mike is light years ahead of Ed in playing a good bass line for a tune.

5. The Grand Finale? It sucked, but I will give them an A for effort, it just didn't turn out very good.

Yeah. In terms of bass playing, I think Ed did a better job on Sammy's album, but that's only because Sammy had to constantly pull the reigns in on him, and tell him to "start thinking more bass" as opposed to the guitar. On three, he pretty much just plays slightly scaled down guitar licks. Theres no push/pull. Y'know....that full dynamic.

brownnation · 11.18.09, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Naked Wake

Cherone sang like he did on Pornograffitti? I mean, when I listen to that disc, it still kinda blows me away. I think Extreme were emulating VH a lot back then. The main point is that Cherone had his own identity, whereas on VH3 he sounded like he was trying to copy Hagar to a T. He doesn't normally have that huskier voice like Hagar has, the way he sang on VH3.

Anyway, do you think the whole product could have been better if Cherone sounded more like himself?

No.

atomicpunk5150 · 11.18.09, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Naked Wake

Cherone sang like he did on Pornograffitti? I mean, when I listen to that disc, it still kinda blows me away. I think Extreme were emulating VH a lot back then. The main point is that Cherone had his own identity, whereas on VH3 he sounded like he was trying to copy Hagar to a T. He doesn't normally have that huskier voice like Hagar has, the way he sang on VH3.

Anyway, do you think the whole product could have been better if Cherone sounded more like himself?

Yes. EVH pushed him too hard to sound like Sammy. The only other thing that would have made the CD better is if the added "That's Why I Love Ya" and deleted "How Many Say I".

Otherwise I still I like the CD and would have loved to have heard what they worked on for the follow up.

Brett · 11.18.09, 04:47 PM

Ed's not a bad bass player, he's just a nothing bass player. His lines are nothing special, sounds like every other guitar player who plays bass...they basically follow the root notes. Any idiot with basic skill can do that. Ed couldn't even thump the E like Mike can, he's not a bass player. There is an art to playing bass, bass players think differently, they play differently. Mike thumping 16th notes has more feel to it than anything Ed's ever done on bass.

Gary's voice is terrible on almost every song...whether it's a combination of Ed's terrible direction on how the songs should be sung, and Gary's throat issues...it's not good..at all. Bad imitation of Sam, and that's not Gary's game at all. All the result of letting Edward play producer, he sucks at it. Gary's a great singer, who was forced to sing crap on VH 3.

The songs are just horrible, they're mish-mosh shit, and most of the riffs sound like leftover garbage. The riff to "Fire in the Hole" is a like a bad 80's hairband trying to cop a Van Halen riff...very sad.

That Rolling Stone review is dead on, and it is in interesting to note that the worst songs on the album are the ones that make some sort of attempt to follow the VH formula. The ones that sound the least bit like VH, are actually the ones that work the best, and I use that term "work" very loosely.. That's also VERY sad, Ed couldn't even write a good head banger on that mess.

Ausfan · 11.18.09, 06:36 PM

[QUOTE=ZachenFoot;1216725]Ed's a shitty bass player, I think any guitarist can tell you that. [QUOTE]
Not according to sammy Hagar and Steve Lukather. Both not bad on guitar

[QUOTE]I think DD's post is right on the money.[QUOTE]
On part of it. The production was the main problem, absolutely terrible, it just sounded like crap. The playing and the songs however are fine.

[QUOTE]Gary's voice was awful. I love Extreme, one of my favorite bands, and Gary's one of my favorite vocalists, but Ed tried to push vocals out of Gary that Gary just couldn't accomplish.[QUOTE]
Gary is an excellent vocalist. In fact he is superior to Hagar in most areas. his voice sounded terrible because of the way it was recorded and produced.

[QUOTE]Ed's drumming is pretty poor (I'm sure he drummed on a few)[QUOTE]

No he didn't. Again what you are hearing is terrible sounding drums, not a terrible player. It is certainly Al playing the drums.
[QUOTE]and the backing vocals on the record are horrible.[QUOTE]
Again the recording and production

[QUOTE]Production sounds like the album was recorded underwater.[QUOTE]

Production sounds non existent, very raw, dead with little clarity. The whole thing was far too mid-rangey lacking depth and clarity at the top. I remember Ed complaining that he thought Balance was far too bassy, I think he described it as sounding like the cows coming home. And right there is the problem with 3. Ed did the production I believe. Balance was a very good sounding record from a production standpoint, and so were the new songs from BOV1.

Quote:

They sounded better with Mike's vocals and bass in there and signature AVH drum fills. ALL three need to be there, I still think.

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I'm curious which songs do you believe Al didn't play on?

The ONLY, and I mean ONLY bonus on the album is Ed's guitar playing.

The album is a piece of shit.

I agree that the guitar playing was good. I think the songs were good too however and believe the major problem to be the production side of things. First impressions count, and the very first thing you noticed when listening to 3 for the first time (not talking about neworld) was how shitty the drums sounded and then the rest of the sound got no better. You just sat there thinking this soiunds terrible all the while not really listening to the music. This first impression set the tone for how the record was inevitably judged, all becuase the production was very poor.

Ausfan · 11.18.09, 06:47 PM

Sorry, didn't preview first. The above post should look like this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZachenFoot

Ed's a shitty bass player, I think any guitarist can tell you that.

Not according to sammy Hagar and Steve Lukather. Both not bad on guitar

Quote:

I think DD's post is right on the money.

On part of it. The production was the main problem, absolutely terrible, it just sounded like crap. The playing and the songs however are fine.

Quote:

Gary's voice was awful. I love Extreme, one of my favorite bands, and Gary's one of my favorite vocalists, but Ed tried to push vocals out of Gary that Gary just couldn't accomplish.

Gary is an excellent vocalist. In fact he is superior to Hagar in most areas. his voice sounded terrible because of the way it was recorded and produced.

Quote:

Ed's drumming is pretty poor (I'm sure he drummed on a few)

No he didn't. Again what you are hearing is terrible sounding drums, not a terrible player. It is certainly Al playing the drums.

Quote:

Production sounds like the album was recorded underwater.

Production sounds non existent, very raw, dead with little clarity. The whole thing was far too mid-rangey lacking depth and clarity at the top. I remember Ed complaining that he thought Balance was far too bassy, I think he described it as sounding like the cows coming home. And right there is the problem with 3. Ed did the production I believe. Balance was a very good sounding record from a production standpoint, and so were the new songs from BOV1.

Quote:

They sounded better with Mike's vocals and bass in there and signature AVH drum fills. ALL three need to be there, I still think.

I'm curious which songs do you believe Al didn't play on?

Quote:

The ONLY, and I mean ONLY bonus on the album is Ed's guitar playing.

The album is a piece of shit.

I agree that the guitar playing was good. I think the songs were good too however and believe the major problem to be the production side of things. First impressions count, and the very first thing you noticed when listening to 3 for the first time (not talking about neworld) was how shitty the drums sounded and then the rest of the sound got no better. You just sat there thinking this soiunds terrible all the while not really listening to the music. This first impression set the tone for how the record was inevitably judged, all becuase the production was very poor.

Double Down · 11.18.09, 06:52 PM

Every time the subject of VH3 comes up I'm at a fucking loss how people can actually say they love it.

I'll reach a little and say I might understand if it's a youngin' just now working their way through all of the albums. But if you grew up with VH and lived through Dave then Sam I don't know how the fuck VH3 doesn't make you ill. It's fucking terrible and it sure as hell ain't Van Halen.

Brett · 11.18.09, 07:03 PM

I agree, I don't know how anyone who has been a Van Halen fan for any real length of time can listen to VH 3 and say it sounds like VH, let alone like it. It's an abortion.

The fact that a band of Van Halen's caliber put a beyond piece of garbage embarrassment like "How Many Say I" on an album says all you need to know about that record. The first sign that Ed had totally lost his mind...and the sadder thing is they played that shit live, and it was worse than the recording, if that's possible.

The VH 3 tour was great though, the worst part by far was having to sit through those shit tunes from 3, most people fell asleep during them. Thank god they played some actual VH music for most of the 2 1/2 hours.

ZachenFoot · 11.18.09, 07:08 PM

Quote: