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Pabs
09.12.01, 07:48 AM
Do you think that if Bin Laden was behind this, like evidence is beginning to show, and we killed him or we retaliated, that there would be more terrorist attacks on the US in response to our retaliation?

tribb
09.12.01, 08:06 AM
Under normal circumstances of course there would. That's why if and when the US or other countries decide it's time for payback they have to do it with extreme force. They have to throw so much fire power at them, or cripple them internally, so that they have no chance to recriminate.
It's fine to say they'll be paid back, but these bastards are maniacs with no regard for life, their own or anyone elses. They've made that more than obvious. If there's only a half ass attempt made at payback they'll see it as a victory and try harder the next time.
Dropping a bomb on someone's stronghold or setting up sanctions won't do a damn thing.
If this was seen as an act of war, then it should be treated as such. Show them the same regard that they've shown and turn their fuckin city into a basketball court.
I've actually heard that there were moslems laughing and dancing in the streets "in the US", in a town called Patterson. I'd like to see those fuckers do that here.

Astrobond
09.12.01, 08:20 AM
I think we will always be dealing with terrorists at different points in time, but no matter who did this we have to respond with full force against these cowards and the shit-hole nations that harbor them. What they did yesterday was an act of war and calls on this great nation to respond. We can't back down to a bunch of spineless bastards who attack thousands of innocent Americans and then run away and hide! They can't retaliate after they've been wiped off the face of the earth!!! As I'm writing this I'm just getting more and more pissed off. We have to make them curse the day they ever thought about doing this! smilies/mad.gif

tap1966
09.12.01, 08:25 AM
Bin Laden has apparently denied it. It's weird - the atrocities were so well-planned that this story of a "flying Manual" being found in a car being rented by Arabs in Boston almost smells of a red herring.

I've seen IRA terrorism up close in London - not on this scale but still scary. The thing is that terrorists almost always claim responsibility, that's the whole point of "terror". They want people to know they did it and why they did it. The other thing about terrorism is that for every terrorist you kill, you create ten more. I've seen this happen too, the IRA sets off bombs in London and Belfast - but when there is a show of force or strength by the military they become the villains. Ordinary peace loving people join the "cause".

It's a different situation obviously - I'm certainly not saying there shouldn't be a very strong response, quite the opposite. But to answer your question - if the American response is seen or perceived to kill "innocent" bystanders along with the guilty then yes there willinevitably be more terrorist acts planned. Whether they can be pulled off with the audacity of yesterday is another question, but the threat won't go away.

Pabs
09.12.01, 08:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jonathan:
Bin Laden has apparently denied it. It's weird - the atrocities were so well-planned that this story of a "flying Manual" being found in a car being rented by Arabs in Boston almost smells of a red herring.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is true. Something like this was planned out for months. To pick the right day where they can get on flights close enough to each other to accomplish this. About Bin Laden, of course he's gonna deny it. Everyone denies it when they do something wrong. They point at someone else. This guy is probably surprized he was able to make this much of an impact. Most of his previous attempts failed. Also, he's done so much shit since 1990, it's enough to put any Joe Shmo to death 5 times over. This guy has already said he wants all Americans dead, and this dude has a real problem. I'm putting money on it.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I've seen IRA terrorism up close in London - not on this scale but still scary. The thing is that terrorists almost always claim responsibility, that's the whole point of "terror". They want people to know they did it and why they did it. The other thing about terrorism is that for every terrorist you kill, you create ten more. I've seen this happen too, the IRA sets off bombs in London and Belfast - but when there is a show of force or strength by the military they become the villains. Ordinary peace loving people join the "cause".<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Are you referring to the attack on American facilities in London? That's one more thing he's done.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>It's a different situation obviously - I'm certainly not saying there shouldn't be a very strong response, quite the opposite. But to answer your question - if the American response is seen or perceived to kill "innocent" bystanders along with the guilty then yes there willinevitably be more terrorist acts planned. Whether they can be pulled off with the audacity of yesterday is another question, but the threat won't go away.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah. But, you can't be paranoid and worry about the threat. There's a threat everytime you walk out the door every morning. Whether it be a car accident, or driving over a bridge and it collapses, or what have you. Thing is, we don't think about it, and that's a good thing. But you have to continue with life. This is sad, and whether you're English, Scottish, French, American, or whatever...this hits home. If something like this can happen to the USA, think of how easy it could be to do this with any other country.

Bottom line...the USA will now get to see who exactly our friends are, and who our friends "ain't". Who's sticking with us!!??

My girlfriend is scared that I'll get drafted. LOL. She loves me.. smilies/wink.gif

tap1966
09.12.01, 09:16 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TimPabs1:


Yeah. But, you can't be paranoid and worry about the threat. There's a threat everytime you walk out the door every morning. Whether it be a car accident, or driving over a bridge and it collapses, or what have you. Thing is, we don't think about it, and that's a good thing. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree absolutely, like I said I've been through this before. I lived in London during one year when the IRA was really active - the closed down the whole subway system very time someone forgot a bag on a train. But life went on, it has to - and if you start getting paranoid about anything and everything then the terrorists have won.

I don't know that it's clear that Bin Laden would automatically deny it. Like I said, the whole point of terrorism is usually to make a point. Of course the threat of retaliation is on the surface a good reason to deny it. But whoever did it, didn't even seem to care about sending their own people on suicide missions, I doubt whether they care about people in their own countries being bombed. They probably welcome it.

Hey, chances are it is Bin Laden - but he's going to be *very* hard to find and kill. He probably hopes the US does bomb Afghanistan - it's going to bring new people (and possibly nations) over to his "cause". Look at Iran - not my favourite country by any stretch, but they are actively anti-Taliban and anti-Bin Laden. But which side are they going to take if the US bombs Kabul - I'd guess the muslim side but it's hard to say.

Don't mistake what I'm saying as being - The US should be careful or fair in their response - far from it. It would be nice to head off terrorism with diplomacy but once it's happened, especially on this level, that simply isn't an option. My point is that it doesn't end with a US response no matter how massive it is - short of nuking every country that may have slight anti-American sentiments. I hope we all understand that that won't happen.

Pabs
09.12.01, 09:53 AM
Here's what I think.

We're gonna have so much support it's not even funny. You figure you'll have the UK, Canada, Australia, France, Germany, India, Israel, and maybe even Russia.

I think China will stay out of it, mainly because it's none of their business, and they're already considered in the dog house. I'm actually surprized that there hasn't even been a response from Iraq. I think they'd be dumb to get into the mix, but I think it's inevidable that we're gonna hear some noise coming from Baghdad.

[ September 12, 2001 at 10:54 AM: Message edited by: TimPabs1 ]

Rick S
09.12.01, 09:58 AM
there needs to be huge response...think about it.. they flew fucking jumbo jets into the trade towers. fucking passenger jets thats insane !!! think about it.....doesnt seem real its so crazy. this is an act of war on the u.s. civillians and goverment.

Pabs
09.12.01, 10:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rick S:
there needs to be huge response...think about it.. they flew fucking jumbo jets into the trade towers. fucking passenger jets thats insane !!! think about it.....doesnt seem real its so crazy. this is an act of war on the u.s. civillians and goverment.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Exactly. This wasn't a remote control airplane. Can you image what those people were thinking on the planes? Can you image what the people in the WTC were thinking. Sitting at your computer posting on a messageboard or checking email...looking out you window, and here comes a fucking airplane!!!! Hello! This is indeed...a major hit. This isn't supposed to happen.

tap1966
09.12.01, 11:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TimPabs1:
Here's what I think.

We're gonna have so much support it's not even funny. You figure you'll have the UK<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This much is inevitable - and right.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk_politics/newsid_1539000/1539562.stm

"The number of British casualties caught up in the terrorist attacks in the US could run into hundreds, Downing Street has said. "

"In an unprecedented move the US National Anthem will be played during a special changing of the guard ceremony to be held at Buckingham Palace at 1130BST on Thursday. "

[ September 12, 2001 at 12:54 PM: Message edited by: Jonathan ]

Pabs
09.12.01, 12:08 PM
Looks like we have the Chinese agreeing to help fight terrorism too.

And that's pretty nice that the US National Anthem being played at Buckingham Palace.

laner
09.12.01, 12:10 PM
i heard on the news yesterday that most of the afghan population is also scared to death of bin laden. i don't think that nuking the hell out of the whole country is the best approach.
i wouldn't be surprised if it was an iraqi attack, or a palestinian attack, although i have trouble imagining who could finance an attack on behalf of the palestinians.

tribb
09.12.01, 12:12 PM
If Bin Laden was the shithole who funded the attack, I still don't believe he was in on it alone. At least one other country and orginization was in on it. It was much too well coordinated and planned, and there would have had to be inside help of some sort to put a plan like that into place over a long period of time.
There's more information coming in now that the White House is starting to tabulate.

laner
09.12.01, 12:19 PM
you're probably right tribb. the more i think about it, the more i lean towards iraq.

Pabs
09.12.01, 12:23 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by laner:
i don't think that nuking the hell out of the whole country is the best approach.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


No one ever mentioned nuclear warfare. Careful how you use that.....

Brett
09.12.01, 12:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by laner:
you're probably right tribb. the more i think about it, the more i lean towards iraq.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nah Saddam Hussein is a coward, a flat out coward.

tap1966
09.12.01, 12:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by laner:
you're probably right tribb. the more i think about it, the more i lean towards iraq.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hussein and Bin Laden don't see things the same way allegedly. Whatever you think of him (it's all bad from me), Hussein is a survivor. I just can't see that he would go to the considerable trouble of staying in power 10 years beyond the gulf war, only to give the US a golden opportunity and excuse to completely wipe him out.

tribb
09.12.01, 02:05 PM
Yea, I think it was done with Hussein's blessing, and I'm sure that he had some knowledge, but whoever did this must have known there would be a serious reprisal.
Like Brett says, I don't believe Hussein has the balls. He's a fucking coward who hid waaaayyyy underground in the gulf war while his so called troops took the punishment, and if you think about it, it wasn't very much punishment. I do think that a walking peice of shit like hussein could have supplied money, tactical knowledge or training, but with those mini balls of his there's no way he's leave a paper trail to his door. This time there'd be no sanctions to worry about. The President has stated that the country(s) responsible would be severly punished, and I think that fucking rodent from iraq knows his ass would be sawdust by being implicated in any way. From what I've been watching on the news, reality is starting to hit home with the American public and where yesterday there was shock, today anger is taking over.
Yesterday I saw Arabfat talking about how shocked he was, while his followers were dancing and handing out candy like they just won the fucking power ball lottery, scum that they are. Now there's a peice of dung you can trust.
I don't believe that nuclear attack is the way to go though. The US has a large arsenal of non nuclear weapons that are just as effective on a smaller scale and wouldn't have the implications or aftermath of radiation that a nuclear detonating device would have.
Just a few hundred propane bombs would clean up nicely.

Brett
09.12.01, 02:49 PM
We need to retaliate with such force that they will never think of attacking us or another "free" country again. I'm not sure a few propane bombs will deter them that much.

diggyd
09.12.01, 04:20 PM
Yep, I think Nuking whoever or whatever country did this is appropriate. I also think Israel should be let loose and run shitface all over Arafag and his dopey countrymen. We will never be the same as a country and the opportunity to make a statement doesn't come very often. Now is the time to act swiftly and justly. We need to send a message..."Don't fuck with us or anyone else that believes in personal freedom." Innocent lives were taken away by animals and they must be put to death.

track 5
09.12.01, 04:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Brett:
We need to retaliate with such force that they will never think of attacking us or another "free" country again. I'm not sure a few propane bombs will deter them that much.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly. Fuck all of them up. Everylast one of them. I'll take great joy watching us, along with some help from our friends, totally rub out any country that supports this fuck. Look what happened to Momar Gaddafi(sp). Once we showed him that we will fight fire with fire, including killing his little girl, he hasn't said a fucking word since. He found out that we meant business. And bin Laden, along with his supporters, hopefully will get what's been a long time comming. And that's KILLED! I'd pay anything to pull the trigger myself. Out.

tribb
09.12.01, 04:44 PM
I'm not talking about a few. I'm talking hundreds. We're not talking about a propane lighter blowing up.
When a propane bomb blows up it sucks up huge amounts of oxygen to burn, literally suffocating anything up to 300 yards away, depending on how far above the ground it blows, without nuclear residue or craters. You have to be in a very deep bunker or the air is literally sucked out of wherever you are, leaving a red hot vacum. Enemy forces can move in almost immediately. Multiply that by hundreds of times or maybe thousands, and add a bunch of anti personel bombs and you've got a clean sweep.
The arabs in the anti US areas of the middle east have publicly said that without the US to back them up they(Israel) would be wiped out. Well the US has been muzzling them for so long because of outside pressure from other nations I can understand them thinking that way.
Let the US give them free rain to protect their borders and watch what happens.

Icecream-man
09.12.01, 05:07 PM
I want to see this scumbag burn/be tortured as much as the next person but the US shouldn't rush into anything. Its unfortunate but the United States' lenient immigration policies in the past may have led to this...these asshole possible Bin Laden followers could have easily been American citizens of Muslim descent who believe in this sickos rhetoric...plain and simple the more ethnically diverse a society is the more tension and greater chance for this kind of shit to happen....it happened in many other ethnically diverse countries, look at all the tensions in africa, russia, yugoslavia,indonesia
the United States may need to rethink their immigration policy...

most muslims are good, peaceable people, but these fanatical muslims are awful...the scary thing is Bin Laden was trained by the CIA to fight the Russians during the invasion of Afganastan...this guy may be our own creation as scary as that sounds...being of Serbian decent my people have been fighting against fanatical muslims who have slaughtered Serbs for centuries...Bin Laden himself sent 50,000 Mujahadeens (Muslim Merceneries) to Krajina in Bosnia and helped Croatians ethnically cleanse 500,000 Serbs...this guys a scumbag that needs to die

and now this...forever altering the New York skyline, forever altering the mindset of Americans, making us now wonder if we are now or ever will be safe in this Fortress America.
World War I, World War II, Korea, Vietnam, Rwanda, Grenada, nothing can come even close to the damage that this will do on our psyche...our country has been penetrated by scum who hate Americans because of their way of life...
Even if Bin Laden is not the culprit...although i highly doubt that...he needs to pay with his life for past discretions...lets not forget the USS Cole in Yemen and the damage his men did there

Trust me the world won't be worse off minus one Bin Laden

May you burn in Hell my friend.

Late.

Down In Flames
09.12.01, 07:55 PM
I'm moving this topic to the World Trade Center/Pentagon Attacks Forum.

It's right above Music-Only.

laner
09.12.01, 09:14 PM
keep in mind that most of the afghan population is scared to death of bin laden. if it was him and the taliban, it's most definitely not fair to include the rest of the afghan population, as most are good people. that's why i'm hesitant to just go in there and go apeshit with whatever bush decides to use.

MikeL
09.12.01, 09:27 PM
Fuel-air explosives can come close to a tactical nuke in terms of destructive power. Pretty amazing things.

I can't believe Saddam had prior knowledge of this. The planning was too tight for many people to know about it. If there'd been much talking, we'd have heard about it.

Terrorists seem to be getting more skillful, unfortunately.

ANGEL4U
09.13.01, 05:29 AM
Two months ago, there was an interview with Bin Laden's "teacher" smilies/mad.gif

Know what he said? "America is vulnerable...." In order not to misquote him, the jist of it was ...*we are vulnerable and that we make the mistake of feeling secure....there ARE people that will die for the sake of attcking America* Suicide
attcks...now we know (interview was 2 months ago) that they DO have people willing to kill themselves in order to kill many.


smilies/mad.gif Did anyone else see this on the news last night??

Bin Laden also has more sophisticated equipment then the United States?? smilies/confused.gif WTF?? smilies/mad.gif


Also, last night, Global Communications was interviewed....I guess they may have the answers somewhere, but they're in *code*...

I guess I should take notes when I'm watching these things because I can't remember half of what these interviews were about...or names

laner
09.13.01, 09:38 PM
post to open