Anyone tried to guess which songs Mike played on on III? And other albums? - Page 2

Van Squalen · 05.28.09, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndrewThomas.net

Yes. Also, yes.

Also:

Yes. True. Correct. Spot on. Exactly.

And the agreement made when Sammy joined the band was 30/30/30/10 (Sammy/Eddie/Alex/Mike). Sammy mostly thought this was bunk since Al was contributing no more to the writing or recording processes than Mike; he thought it should be 30/30/20/20.

Mike played bass on everything except most of the tracks on III and the three songs on BOBW.

Mike was the bass player in VH and played bass on all their recordings until III. Yes, it has been revealed that along the way some in the VH camp were disenchanted with Mike and considered replacing him on several occasions (all of those occasions, it seems, with the same player--Billy Sheehan). But at no time was Mike replaced in the studio by anyone with or not with Van Halen.

On all of Van Halen's studio albums with both Roth and Hagar fronting, Mike played bass. It was only until the Cherone-fronted III that Mike's studio contributions were limited.

Do I need to keep finding ways to say it, or is this enough times to make it clear?

No, bro, it's not gonna be enough times.

Brett · 05.28.09, 08:17 PM

VH III is an abortion, no one should have played on it.

It's funny that people still don't think Mike played everything up until that shitass album.

For the record, Ed's bass playing is nothing to write home about, he sounds like a guitar player playing bass. Which means...not that great.

Van Squalen · 05.28.09, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brett

VH III is an abortion, no one should have played on it.

It's funny that people still don't think Mike played everything up until that shitass album.

For the record, Ed's bass playing is nothing to write home about, he sounds like a guitar player playing bass. Which means...not that great.

It's funny that frequent citations of PCTS come into play during these idiotic conspiracy theories about Ed playing on earlier albums....must be Ed playing that groove, sounds like Ed...and I'm always thinking, 'Here's a fella who doesn't bother watching Mike play his instrument...ever.'

fast98dodge · 05.28.09, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brett

VH III is an abortion, no one should have played on it.

It's funny that people still don't think Mike played everything up until that shitass album.

For the record, Ed's bass playing is nothing to write home about, he sounds like a guitar player playing bass. Which means...not that great.

Post of the year material...

Although there's a tune or three on III that is good, it's not VH like I had known them in the past. It was definitely the Third Incarnation, way too different from the First and Second for me to accept and enjoy it in it's entirety...

Any ear that's actually listening can tell that Mike is playing on everything but III because I have heard the bassplaying on III and that gives it away for sure that it was ALL Mike in the past...

Speaking of III, they would've been better off recording instrumentals for an action movie or something...

D_Sobo · 05.29.09, 06:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Elfoid_TFS

Dave states they were recording Mike's bass parts for him (or Eddie was, at least) as early as Fair Warning. So that album at the least has parts recorded over by Eddie, and the way Dave said it made it sound like that wasn't a one off, so one can assume either Diver Down or 1984 it happened too. And then on III he recorded parts for only three songs - and we don't even know if he played all of the bass parts on those songs.

This'll be an interesting test for all the "Mike's playing was a vital part of the Van Halen sound" - spot the songs that have his distinctive play on and which do not.

I know that in the Roth days Mike was said by the VH brothers to be someone who supported Roth a lot, and I know he was on terrible terms with them on the 1984 Tour. And given what a sympathetic soul Sammy has always been towards Mike, and how Mike genuinely appears happy on some interviews in that era...I'd hazard a guess that Sammy's influence which kept him in the band also meant Mike was present on all of the songs in that era. Mike seemed pretty miserable by Balance, but that's probably more due to general band relationships then. To market the "classic line-up" thing, my guess would be that Mike plays on both BOV1 songs too. The other thing that makes me think Mike was probably on all or most Sammy stuff is that if he was being treated terribly then, I can see Sammy asking Mike to play on his solo album in 1987 not Eddie to make him feel better....given that album was one Eddie co-produced and wasn't gonna get upset about Hagar doing since it was part of his contract when he joined Van Halen in 1985 to get him away from his old label. But 1981-1984 and 1995-1998? What do you think?

I'm not slagging Mike off, not saying his playing isn't distinctive. Just curious as to what discussion this might spark off.

Mike played on every song up until vh 3. To go a little further I know he didn't play on Fire In The Hole, that was Ed. If you listen closely he's f-ing up on all over that song and for some reason he thought it sounded good. I'd have to ask about the other songs on VH 3 but I think I know someone I can ask.

Menlow · 05.29.09, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D_Sobo

Mike played on every song up until vh 3. To go a little further I know he didn't play on Fire In The Hole, that was Ed. If you listen closely he's f-ing up on all over that song and for some reason he thought it sounded good. I'd have to ask about the other songs on VH 3 but I think I know someone I can ask.

There you go conspiracy theorists.

It doesn't get any more credible than that.

fuddman5150 · 05.29.09, 08:02 AM

I'm pretty sure Mike isn't playing on Year to the day.

The Elfoid_TFS · 05.29.09, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Van Squalen

Sad that you're so inclined to believe such bullshit. You've never met Mike, so you're one of the sheep who think people gotta take sides and you think 'well, if Dave and Ed are capable of being pricks, so is Mike.' But you're wrong. Mike's actually a good guy...and yeah, I do know this personally.

Sorry to pop another bubble, but yes, it's true...Ed's a dick.

Even were I not privy to folk in the know...I'd have figured that out myself with the evidence at hand. The fact some of you can't, is kinda...laughable.

I am frequently wrongly accused of being on the wrong guy's side in discussions such as this. I am not and have not stated that Mike definitely didn't play bass on some of the older songs. All I know is the only person I can find who has commented on the matter is a guy saying he didn't play on some. Makes you curious, yes?

This thread is to serve two purposes:
* Debate if Mike didn't play on any old songs
* Debate opinions of the bass on VHIII also

It does NOT exist so I can say "Mike definitely didn't play most of the bass, shut up. Eddie's cool and that's why he played it". It's just to....explore the thought of it.

Unfortunately you're biased, clearly on Mike's side. I'm not on anyone's side. I'm taking a "this is an interesting thing to look at, thoughts?" approach to something I am neutral on. I imagine you know Mike's nice personally because you met him? Now that's a silly way to judge someone; if he's sensible he'll maintain the positive reputation that makes people more likely to buy shit with him and petition to get him back in the big pay cheque that is Van Halen, behaving like an asshole would get him nothing. Anyone's "personal" experiences with anyone in a rock band I tend to ignore....most people who have met Eddie have great things to say about him, but we all know he isn't "all that".

Sounds like Roth's claims about the older stuff are untrue. I'm cool with knowing that. I wish people didn't have to attack me like some kind of Mike hater. I don't like or hate anyone in the vast majority of bands I listen to; I'm aware we don't really know them, and while the soap opera can be fun to follow really we don't know a damn thing about them....they're good actors, pretending to like each other on stage with all this going on behind the scenes shows that. I've been accused of talking smack about Dave, Sammy and Mike just because I don't always take their side in an argument and see them all as great. I'm not an Eddie guy...I'm an everyman, christ. Thanks for the info on "Fire", hope someone can get me the other two.

Van Squalen · 05.29.09, 11:31 AM

I'm not biased. I just happen to be one of the folks who knows the truth. You did not know the truth, and put forth suppositions that were inaccurate and showed you are largely uninformed about the history of the band. When you make long, winding rambling posts on a VH website that are completely opposite of the known truths, expect to get hazed a bit. You're still presuming when you state assumptions about how I would know Mike in that fashion, and the answer is, none of your business, I don't know you well enough to share personal information like that, nor should you generalize accordingly...but that's your M.O. to date, isn't it.

In short: when you don't know the answer to something, ask a question to those who might know before formulating your own hypothesis, particularly if it's one that potentially makes you look foolish.

broken9500 · 05.29.09, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fuddman5150

I'm pretty sure Mike isn't playing on Year to the day.

is there a certain "tell" that leads to feel this way?

Like I said previously, nothing in the drum or bass arrangements immediately led me to think "Damn, that's definitely not Mike or Al!" As someone who listens to III pretty regularly (it's in my car now as a matter of fact) I'm always trying to listen for little things in order to determine if it's Ed or Mike or Al...but i guess i'm not confident enough in my ability to identify Ed's bass or drum playing easily to really say what he played and what he didn't.

I looked around for that thread that someone had posted a track by track list of what they thought ed played what on, but couldn't find it.

fuddman5150 · 05.30.09, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by broken9500

is there a certain "tell" that leads to feel this way?

Like I said previously, nothing in the drum or bass arrangements immediately led me to think "Damn, that's definitely not Mike or Al!" As someone who listens to III pretty regularly (it's in my car now as a matter of fact) I'm always trying to listen for little things in order to determine if it's Ed or Mike or Al...but i guess i'm not confident enough in my ability to identify Ed's bass or drum playing easily to really say what he played and what he didn't.

I looked around for that thread that someone had posted a track by track list of what they thought ed played what on, but couldn't find it.

Mike's playing is subtle not blatant like some of the tracks on III and BOBW. Just as Alex has an unmistakable sound of his snare, Mike has his. And very rarely does bass line follow the guitar verbatim, unless Ed plays it. He's a guitar god but leave the bass to the pros.

Brett · 05.30.09, 10:15 AM

If the bass playing sucks and has no groove, chances are Ed is playing it...because that's how he plays bass...not great.

Not a rip on Ed the genius guitar player....but certainly not a very good bass player.

Like Fuddman says, that's the biggest sign of a guitar player playing bass, they just follow the guitar lines, a good bass player does not.

chefcraig · 05.30.09, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brett

If the bass playing sucks and has no groove, chances are Ed is playing it...because that's how he plays bass...not great.

So Ed played bass on those KISS "no-makeup" albums from the eighties, eh? Damn, learn something new every day.

Brett · 05.30.09, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chefcraig

So Ed played bass on those KISS "no-makeup" albums from the eighties, eh? Damn, learn something new every day.

ROFL! Old Gene wasn't much better in the 70's.

snare812 · 05.30.09, 03:30 PM

Here's the breakdown for ya (imo)

new world- mike post and ed

without you- ed-drums, bass, guitar back up's/ gary vox/ mike (find away ending b/u)

one i want- al drums/ed guitars, bass and most back up/gary vox/ma b/u on "one i want" before the breakdown before the solo

From Afar- ed drums, guitar, maaayyybbee bass (jury's still out on that one because it is loud.....why would he put MA loud in the mix if he turned him down on everything else ma played...../ gary vox/ ma i think he played bass on this one and the one b/u line of "get her outta my mind" ( is it me or can anyone else hear the shitting editing chops in the breakdown solo section?)

DWD- ed, drums, bass and guitar and all back ups/gary vox

once- ed everything / gary vox

FITH- ed drums, bass and guitar and back ups/ gary vox

josephina- al drums, ed bass, guitars, back ups/ gary vox

YTTD- al drums/ MA bass/ ed guitar/ gary vox (the most complete version of the line up on the record imo of course)

primary-ed obviously

ballot- al drums/ ma bass but buried (hes not playing the low end BAAA note) and the back ups /ed, guitars and the low end BAAA's) /gary vox

HMSI-ed piano vox/ gary back ups

whew!!

I love 3 because it is a masterpiece of a disaster.....

I'd almost be willing to bet my paycheck on the above list....anyone??

carry on